Help me improve my backhand

[pvaudio]

About a month ago now I switched to a 2HBH having used a 1HBH for years. It's been a tough transition! While I was taught the 2HBH, it never felt natural to me. Now though, even my worst 2HBH is superior to my mediocre 1HBH. Regardless, I want to have this stroke be my consistent side, with my forehand being the weapon side (nothing too unusual there). So, please give me some tips on how to improve it. I've posted a video below. There is no editing, it's a single shot through. You can tell the difference between strokes (aka if it was good or not) by if you hear it hit the net, or if I make some noise to denote it going long. All constructive suggestions are welcomed.

http://youtu.be/cx7jDxncNyc

 

[LeeD]

I like your 2hbh. It's raw, unrefined, but will get better.
I even like it better than your forehand, which you like to pound using tons of energy for a little gain in power and spin.
Just start working on running wider 2hbh's, and saving the 1hbh for low balls, really high slices, and volleys.

 

[kiteboard]

Hitting foot/knee is too straight up. Bend down more and put more weight into the ground, and more weight backwards for greater start/load. Coil more and sink into the ground more. Top hitters also angle their body into the shot, and you are straight up/down. Put your chest onto the ball, by leaning forward at an angle more. All top players bend over 90 degrees while waiting for the return, so that they make sure to lean into it forward upon contact. No load back, no explosion forward= no weapon.

 

[gindyo]

I am in the same boat as well. I switched a year ago and it is still not where it should be but it is good enough for now What I have noticed works for me is trying to swing as far back as I can that really helps me smooth it up. And something I noticed in your video is how far you cross with your right foot. Try stepping forward rather then to the side.

 

[Up&comer]

Looks pretty much ok. You just need some more front knee bend and maybe learn to open up your stance more.

You also never seem to have the racket get below the level of the ball. That's good for flat aggressive shots, but getting the racket below can help with topspin=more margin.

 

[pvaudio]

Hitting foot/knee is too straight up. Bend down more and put more weight into the ground, and more weight backwards for greater start/load. Coil more and sink into the ground more. Top hitters also angle their body into the shot, and you are straight up/down. Put your chest onto the ball, by leaning forward at an angle more. All top players bend over 90 degrees while waiting for the return, so that they make sure to lean into it forward upon contact. No load back, no explosion forward= no weapon.

Hmm, could you explain this a bit more clearly? It sounds interesting. Is this for power, consistency or both?

 

[pvaudio]

Looks pretty much ok. You just need some more front knee bend and maybe learn to open up your stance more.

You also never seem to have the racket get below the level of the ball. That's good for flat aggressive shots, but getting the racket below can help with topspin=more margin.

Indeed, the lack of top is obvious. I can't "roll" the ball over like I can with 1H. I want to be able to do both.

 

[LeeD]

Do you want more topspin?
2hbh has less leverage, and your swingpath now is flat.
You'd need to drop the head, roll over your lefty hand, lose ball speed, gain topspin.

 

[rkelley]

Hitting foot/knee is too straight up. Bend down more and put more weight into the ground, and more weight backwards for greater start/load. Coil more and sink into the ground more. Top hitters also angle their body into the shot, and you are straight up/down. Put your chest onto the ball, by leaning forward at an angle more. All top players bend over 90 degrees while waiting for the return, so that they make sure to lean into it forward upon contact. No load back, no explosion forward= no weapon.

This is basically what I noticed too. I'd phrase it as you're not stepping into the ball. All your weight starts on your front foot so there's no weight transfer into the shot. Also you're hitting from a very closed stance a lot of the time, which is basically because you're not stepping in. The stance is so closed that you're not getting your hips turned into the shot. The hips drive the shoulders which will drive the arms.

As for the topspin, fundamentally you have to let the racquet head drop below the ball. If both hands are holding the racquet tightly that can be tough to do - you tend to drive right though the ball. Great if you're on, but it can get wild. Most players let their non-dominant hand drive the 2hbh. The right hand isn't passive, but the left hand controls the racquet. That can be a tough transition from years with a one hander. You might try having almost no grip on your right hand during the set-up and only grip with the right hand when you start the forward swing.

Another thing that can help topspin are grips. If the right is continental and the left Eastern (a very common configuration), then maybe try rotating a bit towards SW on the left hand.

 

[kiteboard]

The hips do drive the shoulders which turn the arms, but most have no real feel for opening their hips on their bhs, earlier, so that their locked wrists can "drag" along after the hips. This accelerates their true power like throwing a frisbee, or loading a karate chop, the master opens the hips way early while "dragging" all else behind, as if all your weight is being dragged. The more weight you load up to drag, the more of a weapon your bh will become. If you don't feel the smooth weapon like certainty of the "dragged" hips, you are not ever going to develop a consistency nor a weapon. And it's the smoothness which adds speed, flexibility, power to the hip opening quicker/faster/deadlier. A quick firing hip open will solve a lot.

You learned with your one hander to close off your stance, which is more nec. than with a two hander. The two hander has both shoulders in play, and both hands, so they can afford a more open stance, as they have their non dom. hand on the frame. Most one handers take the frame back on the throat with that hand, but I leave it on the handle, which allows a more leveraged, faster take back, without a "bunting" config.

Foot work first: 11 step types: Video of foot work

#1: The split step first: Advanced split step: Shot of advanced split step, which causes an immediate unit turn, with the left foot facing towards the side fence, and the right foot facing the net upon landing.
#2: The cross step second: Cross step: Running towards the plant step spot with cross steps.

#3: The plant foot third: Plant foot: Plant the rear left foot towards the side fence, and that will position your self to transfer weight into the ball with the hitting foot.

#4: The hitting foot fourth: Hitting foot: Step into the shot with the right foot, in a closed stance, facing the left net post.

#5: The recovery step last: Powering out of the hitting step with a pound it down on the ball of the rear left foot and back pedaling back into position and split step.

#6: How to tango step up to a short ball and hit the top spin shot: Video
#7: How to deal with a deep ball and still hit top spin: video
#8: How to deal with a deep high ball and still hit top spin: High incoming ball=high non dominant hand: video

#9: The double hop on a short ball: keeping our bodies stabilized on the move into the net. Video

#10: The side step: Most do this only on the forehand video
#11: Serve return foot work: Split step and cross and nail it. video

 

[pvaudio]

I get the first bit and I'll work on that and re-video. The Arthur Murray second portion though? Need a bit more explanation on that I'm afraid

 

[kiteboard]

Just focus on opening your hip very fast, yet coiling it more to start with, and coiling back more. STep forward more, as the cross step is only nec. with a one hander.

 

[pvaudio]

Hmm I think I will have session 2 tomorrow. Goal: topspin, and 15 balls in a row (yeah, yeah, but when it's a new shot and you're alternating CC and DTL, that's big for me).

 

[Orion3]

Been playing around with mine over the last week or so - its becoming inconsistent (used to be my most reliable wing).

Came across a couple of videos that I found useful. The first was Nadal drilling - I didn't realise how simple his mechanics were; mine seem to have become quite complex. I'm now trying to simplify things as its then much easier to repeat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cdQLPbxcpk&list=FLNlyw-PTpV-f9GmBYbO6w-Q&index=3&feature=plpp_video

Second video I liked was below - interesting comments regarding letting go of the racquet at the end of the swing with the top hand for power and loosening the bottome grip for spin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jbNdG-z-Vc

For me - I always found using my left hand, in the stroke, helped me a lot; this is something I also (Subconsciously) seem to have moved away from and am trying to consciously re-learn.

Good luck!

 

[pvaudio]

I have taken some still photographs of the stroke to see if stop-motion would help point out anything:

Takeback:

Contact:

Followthrough:

Recovered/pushing off to return to center:

Anything else noticable? I'm going to see if I can get some time again today.

 

[sunof tennis]

Do you want more topspin?
2hbh has less leverage, and your swingpath now is flat.
You'd need to drop the head, roll over your lefty hand, lose ball speed, gain topspin.

Agree, specifically with the dropping of the head. Check out Novak hitting.
I tried to switch to two hands but basically failed. Seems like the pros hit the two handed generally from an open stance whereas yours is clearly closed (this in the natural one-handed stance). I would believe that hitting from an open stance allows you to get your hips through more easily, but will defer to the experts on this.

 

[pvaudio]

Hmm, hopefully tomorrow (today I guess). Yesterday didn't work out.

 

[BevelDevil]

Noticed your front leg is straight at the takeback. It should be bent and straighten though contact, even on chest-high balls. The upward motion helps generate pace and stablize your swing, same as in the 1hbh.

Here's a clip of Nadal on a high ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j86FuSXtWUM#t=0m10s

Seems like the pros hit the two handed generally from an open stance whereas yours is clearly closed (this in the natural one-handed stance). I would believe that hitting from an open stance allows you to get your hips through more easily, but will defer to the experts on this.

No, most 2hbhs are from a closed or neutral stance. The 2hbh is much more like a 1hbh than it is a forehand.

 

[Chyeaah]

The first thing I realise is that you have a 1HBH stance, it is super closed. The second thing I realise is that leg kick, which usually happens on 1HBHs to drive through, not many people do it on two handed backhands as they can turn their hip more.

 

[chico9166]

I have taken some still photographs of the stroke to see if stop-motion would help point out anything:

Takeback:

Contact:

Followthrough:

Recovered/pushing off to return to center:

Anything else noticable? I'm going to see if I can get some time again today.

From photo 1 to 2: My first thought would be, that the arms are "leading" the hips, instead of vice versa. The very essence of arming the ball. Your athletic enough, to make it work to a certain degree, but it is not optimal.

A good swing thought would be something like: When it's time to "swing" turn into the ball, while at the same time keeping the hands back. (they will catch up) This will tend to reinforce the proper sequencing, which is, the hands follow the rotation.

 

[papa]

Actually, it looks pretty good and I would also like to see a little more weight transfer - its there but not enough. Racquet path angle probably is a factor (think Lee pointed it out) - hard to say without seeing how the ball goes. Your hitting from fairly deep so the racquet path might be ok.

When you go to the slice, watch the grip - you didn't in the clip and the ball when way up.

 

[Limpinhitter]

About a month ago now I switched to a 2HBH having used a 1HBH for years. It's been a tough transition! While I was taught the 2HBH, it never felt natural to me. Now though, even my worst 2HBH is superior to my mediocre 1HBH. Regardless, I want to have this stroke be my consistent side, with my forehand being the weapon side (nothing too unusual there). So, please give me some tips on how to improve it. I've posted a video below. There is no editing, it's a single shot through. You can tell the difference between strokes (aka if it was good or not) by if you hear it hit the net, or if I make some noise to denote it going long. All constructive suggestions are welcomed.

http://youtu.be/cx7jDxncNyc

With a good 2hb, you will have a weapon on both sides. Rather than reinvent the wheel, here's what I wrote in another thread. There are more details than this, but, this is the basics:

A modern 2hb is a left handed forehand with a windshield wiper finish just like a right handed forehand (reverse for lefties). Take the racquet back with the racquet head straight up and the face facing the side fence. Keep your arms, wrists and hands very loose and relaxed so that when you drive with your legs and hips, your racquet head automatically drops down below the ball. Then finish with a WW followthrough with the left elbow high. You'll hit a ton of topspin that way.

In addition, your left hand should be dominant, and your right hand should be passive. Your stance should be neutral and wide with the weight on your left foot like a batter in a batter's box. On the take back, your right arm should be straight and held against your body. Your left elbow should be slightly bent. When you make contact, your swing breaks off in a ww finish. That ww finish is the key to hitting heavy topspin.

 

[pvaudio]

Any other suggestions? Going to have another go either today or tomorrow.

 

[kiteboard]

Your foot work is off. Your coil is off. Your mental intention to crush the ball is not there. Your whole posture is defensive and uncertain. Your hip rotation is slow. Your follow through is stunted. All this slows down the shot.

 

[pvaudio]

New video.

http://youtu.be/X8BjmPs1gcY

I'm not ashamed of errors/shanks, so I purposely did not edit them out. They're more instructive of what to do than if it goes in with poor technique.

Things I've learned:

1. Right arm straight and close to body
2. Racquet takeback early
3. Drop racquet head as swing progresses
4. Right hand loose on grip
5. Teenage girls are absolutely obnoxious (you can hear them pounding on the glass to my left before their volleyball practice)

A few notes: this clip was my final clip of the day after about an hour and a half of doing nothing but backhands. With that said, please excuse some of the lazy footwork, but I do try not to be lazy on prep. If you notice that, please point it out. Secondly, I have included two different slow motion clips at the end of the video, both of which felt nice. The first went in, the second went into the top third of the net. Just to see if you can spot the difference.

 

[Limpinhitter]

New video.

http://youtu.be/X8BjmPs1gcY

I'm not ashamed of errors/shanks, so I purposely did not edit them out. They're more instructive of what to do than if it goes in with poor technique.

Things I've learned:

1. Right arm straight and close to body
2. Racquet takeback early
3. Drop racquet head as swing progresses
4. Right hand loose on grip
5. Teenage girls are absolutely obnoxious (you can hear them pounding on the glass to my left before their volleyball practice)

A few notes: this clip was my final clip of the day after about an hour and a half of doing nothing but backhands. With that said, please excuse some of the lazy footwork, but I do try not to be lazy on prep. If you notice that, please point it out. Secondly, I have included two different slow motion clips at the end of the video, both of which felt nice. The first went in, the second went into the top third of the net. Just to see if you can spot the difference.

That's the Venus/Serena Williams backhand. You're dropping the racquet head immediately on your backswing. You'll get consistent ball striking sooner that way. However, the men hold the racquet straight up on the backswing and let the momentum of their pronounced hip rotation cause the racquet to drop. That movement creates wrist snap and, therefore, more racquet speed, power and spin than you can generate by dropping the racquet head immediately. Here are some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k40zmz1uvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIq1JwaNUbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd4ivBeFC4o&feature=related

Here's a good lesson on the subject of cocking the wrists and using hip drive to cause the racquet to drop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVPvzjLnnKE&feature=related

 

[pvaudio]

Yes indeed, I was attempting to combine the head-up version in the last video with getting the racquet head under for this video. I guess I need more of a loop hybrid. I will be honest though, it's getting a lot easier to hit with 2H, so the learning curve is flattening out. If I can extrapolate, I think that'll make improving the 2H a damn lot easier than the 1H.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Yes indeed, I was attempting to combine the head-up version in the last video with getting the racquet head under for this video. I guess I need more of a loop hybrid. I will be honest though, it's getting a lot easier to hit with 2H, so the learning curve is flattening out. If I can extrapolate, I think that'll make improving the 2H a damn lot easier than the 1H.

If you remember that a 2hb is the functional equivalent of a left handed forehand with a dominant left hand and a passive right hand, that's the most important thing. The next most important thing is understanding the relationship between the hip drive and the racquet drop, just like the right handed forehand. I can't recommend Tai's video lesson strongly enough. I also highly recommend his "modern forehand" video because it's based on the same premise, because a 2hb means you are hitting 2 forehands.

 

[pvaudio]

Hmm, I will look at his video and try to apply it when I go hit tomorrow.

 

[pvaudio]

Random: after tiring of backhands, decided to hit serves, but only got the warmup on camera before the battery died. Figured, why waste it, so:

http://youtu.be/UtfYGIiHVdY

Back to the scheduled 2HBH programming

 

[5263]

Muscling that racket head around on those Bhs is causing the face to close
prematurely and putting balls low and in the net. I would suggest looking to
drag the racket longer; more like you see on a proper Fh.

 

[pvaudio]

See, the 2HBH looks so much simpler than the 1HBH, but it's just as technical. The difference is that even when mediocre, the 2HBH is usually just consistent and that alone. When mediocre, the 1HBH is an enormous liability.

I will work on the hips and see how it progresses.

 

[OnlineTennisInstruction]

Your two-hander looks pretty solid already. It appears that you have good grips with both hands as far as I can see it on the video which is a great start.

Generally it will get better over time but one thing you need to watch out is your lower body. Your front leg needs to be bend more before hitting and then you need to uncoil so that the front leg is straightened out at the beginning.

Think: Sit down and then slowy but gradually come up throughout the stroke. make sure to keep your head down though!

good luck

 

[OnlineTennisInstruction]

Sorry there was a typo in my post. At the end of the shot your front leg should be straightened out as a general guideline

maybe also have a look at some slow motion backhands from djokovic to see what i mean

 

[Limpinhitter]

Random: after tiring of backhands, decided to hit serves, but only got the warmup on camera before the battery died. Figured, why waste it, so:

http://youtu.be/UtfYGIiHVdY

Back to the scheduled 2HBH programming

We've been through this before. IMO, you're swinging too hard with your arm, and not getting enough upper body rotation. If you turn your back to the target more, and push your left hip toward the target, at the peak of your toss, your upper body will be in the best position to rotate and contribute the mass of your body to your swing, AND you'll be in the best position to hit a high arching, heavy topspin, high margin for error, serve.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Hmm, I will look at his video and try to apply it when I go hit tomorrow.

Look at Tai's video. Then look at the Agassi, Djokovic, Nadal video's I posted for you.

 

[pvaudio]

Ugh blisters from yesterday prevented any meaningful progress. However, without seeing myself hit, my hitting partner for today said "What'd you do to your backhand over the past two days? I can't get a racquet on it!" That felt good

Until he compensated for the non-floaty garbage of before and went back to crushing it :twisted:

 

[greg280]

this is one of the better threads i have seen in years.

 

[gregor.b]

See, the 2HBH looks so much simpler than the 1HBH, but it's just as technical. The difference is that even when mediocre, the 2HBH is usually just consistent and that alone. When mediocre, the 1HBH is an enormous liability.

I will work on the hips and see how it progresses.

Tell me about it. Something I found hitting against the wall was that it is easier to groove a stroke when you are hitting to the same spot each time. You can start to feel the shot and make incremental adjustments each shot. When going c/c then dtl alternately, you have to change a lot of things. I would suggest next time maybe trying this approach to start feeling the shot. When you become more comfortable, then try changing direction. You don't want too much to think about each shot, and changing direction is 1 extra thing that takes a lot of extra concentration, thus making it more difficult ( until the technique of the stroke becomes ingrained).

Cheers,

Greg.

 

[sansaephanh]

This make me feel bad lol. All you guys are giving him all sorts of bad critique on a backhand that may be 1000000 times better than mine.

And PV

I love how you psych yourself up vs a machine. I don't think i could do that lol.

 

[kiteboard]

The machine is going to always kick his az. I challenge pv to do what I told him to. If he is serious.

 

[You Can't Be Serious]

Didn't see anybody mention anything about the racket. Unlike the one-handed backhand, we don't like the racket head to go behind the back.
As you bring your racket back you should get to a position where the right arm is completely straight and the left elbow slightly bent. The racket will be on the left side of your body.

Check out Novak's backhand slow motion;

From that position, you will pull your right hand forehand. The racket head will move back slightly and then you swing thru the ball making sure your elbow remains slightly elevated. If you tuck your elbow into your body the racket will move behind your back. This is a flick move something you will see Nadal and Novak do on their backhands. If this is too much right now; simply move your racket forward as if you are tracing a small c or candy cane.

 

[pvaudio]

This make me feel bad lol. All you guys are giving him all sorts of bad critique on a backhand that may be 1000000 times better than mine.

And PV

I love how you psych yourself up vs a machine. I don't think i could do that lol.

In case people haven't realized yet, I don't take my self that seriously when it comes to my tennis ability. I'm there to have fun and get better. Trying to refocus when you know the opponent is always going to win (as you said, it's a machine!) is just one of my strategies.

I'll be hitting again tonight; will update.

 

[pvaudio]

Actually, it looks pretty good and I would also like to see a little more weight transfer - its there but not enough. Racquet path angle probably is a factor (think Lee pointed it out) - hard to say without seeing how the ball goes. Your hitting from fairly deep so the racquet path might be ok.

When you go to the slice, watch the grip - you didn't in the clip and the ball when way up.

Trust me, that's not my slice. That was simply resetting my mind for the next backhands. You can see my slice in my actual groundstrokes vid.

 

[pvaudio]

Went out and hit again. It's amazing, it gets better and better each time. Took video, going to look at it myself and then post the next time.

 

[kiteboard]

You need a quicker core rotation, and that's only possible if you decide it is. Look at your video and decide to rotate 30% faster. Coil more. Unleash like a speed fed drugged out Nadal demon. Don't close off so much. Decide to discover the feeling of hitting down on the shot, hitting down on the ball, with very fast weight.

 

[pvaudio]

What the hell, I'll post it. Maybe something's glaringly obvious. The first one is just some light rallying. The second one is drop-feed singles: drop feed, opponent must get the ball back, and only then can you start to play the point. If they don't get it back, you restart the point. As you can see by the state of my shirt, this was towards the end of our hour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhDjJ3Zlm5U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hepmyzbIj4I

 

[watungga]

Your 2HBH is good. Just add a bit of anticipation that you'll meet the ball more earlier - which means you meet the ball, NOT wait for it to come. By this method, your scissor legs which emulates a 1HBH, will be fade away. Your legs will position itself, 1 at back, 1 in front of it - your body weight will transfer from back to front.

I like your forehand. Short back swing. As per above, meet the ball, NOT wait for it to come. This will cure a very high ball returns when you're doing a relaxed forehand. Use the racquet as a whiplash when you want a relaxed return - smack the ball - but in relaxed mode.

You hit that forehand good when i saw both feet jumps.

 

[pvaudio]

Yeah the struggle is focusing on weight back to front. It was only towards the end of the hour that I started focusing exclusively on that. The results were promising

 

[pvaudio]

I am absolutely loving this stroke. It's getting better every single time I hit. It's now to the point that I love it more than my forehand because it makes this delicious *CRACK* sound when I unload into it. I only get that when serving and never on my forehand. It's addicting