Help me with my forehand [video]

[bfroxen]

Hi all. I took up tennis about a year ago and have primarily taught myself with the help of YouTube, this forum, a ball machine, and video. I hadn't taken video in a while but recorded some forehands the other day. I see some things I could improve, but what do you see?

The video shows three different angles, and I rendered it at half speed, so you can watch it in real time by adjusting the playback speed.

Thanks in advance (I hope).

 

[bitcoinoperated]

Don't skip leg day

 

[FiReFTW]

No kinetic chain, and its out of sync completely, your lower body is completely out of sync, your jumping only because you saw pro players on youtube do the same, but your legs add nothing to your swing, they just jump by themself for the sake of jumping.

 

[Doc Hollidae]

Looks pretty good for being self taught.

One thing I notice is your feet. Your right foot tends to plant in front of your left foot, which takes your hips and legs out of the swing. You should be coiling and loading with your legs and core. With your right foot out front, your hips are already released/open.

When you first move to the ball, turn your shoulders and hips as one to the right. This is called a unit turn. You can use your offhand to push your racket back even, to help you remember to make this turn. See how you kind of shuffle to the ball then turn? Make the unit turn first, then move to the ball in that position. You will find yourself prepared earlier to swing and getting to balls quicker.

Watch what Agassi does leading up to him swinging:

 

[bfroxen]

Don't skip leg day

A worthy first response.

 

[bfroxen]

Looks pretty good for being self taught.

One thing I notice is your feet. Your right foot tends to plant in front of your left foot, which takes your hips and legs out of the swing. You should be coiling and loading with your legs and core. With your right foot out front, your hips are already released/open.

When you first move to the ball, turn your shoulders and hips as one to the right. This is called a unit turn. You can use your offhand to push your racket back even, to help you remember to make this turn. See how you kind of shuffle to the ball then turn? Make the unit turn first, then move to the ball in that position. You will find yourself prepared earlier to swing and getting to balls quicker.

Watch what Agassi does leading up to him swinging:

Yeah, I noticed that about my right foot, too. I'll have to record some balls to different locations to see how often I do that.

How about the stroke at 1:58? Does that look better in terms of getting sideways earlier?

 

[Doc Hollidae]

Yeah, I noticed that about my right foot, too. I'll have to record some balls to different locations to see how often I do that.

How about the stroke at 1:58? Does that look better in terms of getting sideways earlier?

Better, but not exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[IowaGuy]

Hi all. I took up tennis about a year ago and have primarily taught myself with the help of YouTube, this forum, a ball machine, and video. I hadn't taken video in a while but recorded some forehands the other day. I see some things I could improve, but what do you see?

The video shows three different angles, and I rendered it at half speed, so you can watch it in real time by adjusting the playback speed.

Thanks in advance (I hope).

@bfroxen - the biggest thing I see is that you're not getting power from your hip/torso rotation.

You're doing a good job of taking your off-hand across your body to prepare for the shot. But then notice that you kind of leave your off-hand "dangling" while you hit the shot (looks like you're hugging yourself). That is evidence that you're not actually uncoiling properly and using your kinetic chain.

Compare to pros who fully uncoil to get more power:

 

[Curious]

Already looking better than my 5 year old forehand!

 

[Keendog]

Not bad. Looks to me like you raise the racquet up in the backswing, then pause momentarily in the 'pat the dog' position, from where you begin the forward swing. This pause is causing a loss of momentum and racquet head speed, and it takes a lot of effort to start a swing from one metre behind you. Try and begin the forward swing from the racquet pointing up position by letting the weight of the racquet drop down and swinging forward in a smooth motion.

To practice this, one thing you could do is complete the unit turn holding the racquet up with both hands on the racquet, and just hold it for as long as possible before releasing the forward swing to hit the ball. See how long you can hold it for before you start hitting the ball late. Giving yourself less time should remove the pauses on the forward swing, then when you can see how little time you really need you can start working on your rhythm. You can see what I mean with the Agassi video someone posted above, the first forehand he just holds and holds and holds, then begins the swing forward from the prep stage.

BTW what ball machine you got? Looking to get one myself

 

[bfroxen]

@bfroxen - the biggest thing I see is that you're not getting power from your hip/torso rotation.

You're doing a good job of taking your off-hand across your body to prepare for the shot. But then notice that you kind of leave your off-hand "dangling" while you hit the shot (looks like you're hugging yourself). That is evidence that you're not actually uncoiling properly and using your kinetic chain.

Compare to pros who fully uncoil to get more power:

I do see that. I've looked at some more pro video. I don't typically see the left arm out as much as in this photo, but I've seen that they typically keep their hand up and a bit away, whereas I let mine drop. Keeping the left arm out would tend to slow down rotation.

I don't see that I'm not uncoiling, though. I see 90 degrees of shoulder rotation between prep and contact.

 

[IowaGuy]

I do see that. I've looked at some more pro video. I don't typically see the left arm out as much as in this photo, but I've seen that they typically keep their hand up and a bit away, whereas I let mine drop. Keeping the left arm out would tend to slow down rotation.

I don't see that I'm not uncoiling, though. I see 90 degrees of shoulder rotation between prep and contact.

Can you find a photo/video of any pro who does the "bear hug" with the off-hand, like you do? If not, why do you think that is the case?

 

[bfroxen]

Not bad. Looks to me like you raise the racquet up in the backswing, then pause momentarily in the 'pat the dog' position, from where you begin the forward swing. This pause is causing a loss of momentum and racquet head speed, and it takes a lot of effort to start a swing from one metre behind you. Try and begin the forward swing from the racquet pointing up position by letting the weight of the racquet drop down and swinging forward in a smooth motion.

To practice this, one thing you could do is complete the unit turn holding the racquet up with both hands on the racquet, and just hold it for as long as possible before releasing the forward swing to hit the ball. See how long you can hold it for before you start hitting the ball late. Giving yourself less time should remove the pauses on the forward swing, then when you can see how little time you really need you can start working on your rhythm. You can see what I mean with the Agassi video someone posted above, the first forehand he just holds and holds and holds, then begins the swing forward from the prep stage.

BTW what ball machine you got? Looking to get one myself

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

The ball machine is a Silent Partner Edge Star. I found it used for cheap; just needed a battery and new remote unit. It worked well for a while, but lately I've been struggling with an intermittent bad connection between the PCB and the speed potentiometer. I "fixed" one broken connection by soldering in a piece of wire, but either that failed, or another connection is broken.

 

[bfroxen]

Can you find a photo/video of any pro who does the "bear hug" with the off-hand, like you do? If not, why do you think that is the case?

No, I agree that it's odd and something I should fix. Thanks.

 

[IowaGuy]

 

[IowaGuy]

No, I agree that it's odd and something I should fix. Thanks.

It's not really something that is just "odd", it's a result of you not getting power from your uncoiling.

One thing you might try as an experiment - practice "catching" your racket in your off-hand. This might help you to rotate more and break the bear-hug habit...

Thomas at Feel Tennis describes your forehand (he calls it "entangled"), and why he prefers practicing catching the racket on the follow-through...

https://www.feeltennis.net/forehand-follow-through/

 

[bfroxen]

It's not really something that is just "odd", it's a result of you not getting power from your uncoiling.

One thing you might try as an experiment - practice "catching" your racket in your off-hand. This might help you to rotate more and break the bear-hug habit...

Thomas at Feel Tennis describes your forehand (he calls it "entangled"), and why he prefers practicing catching the racket on the follow-through...

https://www.feeltennis.net/forehand-follow-through/

I just don't see that. It looks to me that my shoulders have gone through ~90 degrees of rotation from prep to contact, and my chest is pretty much parallel to the strings at contact.

I'll drill catching the racquet, though. If nothing else, it will help me get my hand up.

 

[IowaGuy]

I just don't see that. It looks to me that my shoulders have gone through ~90 degrees of rotation from prep to contact, and my chest is pretty much parallel to the strings at contact.

Look at your FH at 0:32.

Do you think you're getting full rotation on that shot? Or are you doing more like Thomas describes with the "entanged" off arm, which is a symptom of arming the FH:

 

[bfroxen]

Look at your FH at 0:32.

Do you think you're getting full rotation on that shot? Or are you doing more like Thomas describes with the "entanged" off arm, which is a symptom of arming the FH:

That one looks, to me, like I checked up a bit because I got the spacing wrong. My spacing seems generally too close. I expected someone to point that out. I've worked on that several times in the past, and it's still not where I want it to be.

 

[Dou]

not too bad really.. light feet, relaxed hit.. a usable shot.

stuff you can improve on - the base is a bit narrow.. widen it can improve stability and balance.

as others pointed out, the left side is not clearing enough... but you may get away with it if you have good timing.

also, shooting the video in normal speed can actually tell MORE than slo mo.... it's difficult to feel the release tempo in slow mo.

 

[bfroxen]

not too bad really.. light feet, relaxed hit.. a usable shot.

stuff you can improve on - the base is a bit narrow.. widen it can improve stability and balance.

as others pointed out, the left side is not clearing enough... but you may get away with it if you have good timing.

also, shooting the video in normal speed can actually tell MORE than slo mo.... it's difficult to feel the release tempo in slow mo.

Thanks. What do you mean by "the left side is not clearing enough"? Is that the left arm stuff that @IowaGuy is pointing out?

I recorded in 240 fps, but I rendered it in 120 fps, so you can set the playback rate to 2X on YouTube to see it at normal speed.

 

[Dou]

Thanks. What do you mean by "the left side is not clearing enough"? Is that the left arm stuff that @IowaGuy is pointing out?

I recorded in 240 fps, but I rendered it in 120 fps, so you can set the playback rate to 2X on YouTube to see it at normal speed.

right, the left side needs to get out of the way a little more.. compare to any modern pro you will see clearly.

I played in 2X.... your contact is late.. you are accelerating thru the contact. that is wrong.... you need to stop pulling when the racket is 1-2 feet from the contact point, and let the hand and racket 'coast' into the impact... you will see a big difference in accuracy and power.

many teach this concept as 'throwing the racket to the ball'... if taken literally then at impact you hand is no longer on the handle... that's how 'disengaged' the impact needs to be.

 

[NuBas]

Hi all. I took up tennis about a year ago and have primarily taught myself with the help of YouTube, this forum, a ball machine, and video. I hadn't taken video in a while but recorded some forehands the other day. I see some things I could improve, but what do you see?

The video shows three different angles, and I rendered it at half speed, so you can watch it in real time by adjusting the playback speed.

Thanks in advance (I hope).

In my opinion, pretty good stroke for time took to develop. Its clean enough to where you could re-work it in the future to fit whatever you seek to fix. You did not mention what you are looking to gain from advice with your stroke.

What I see is you are good with your upswing, swinging over the shoulder, etc.
What I see you are not good with is allowing your entire arm to follow through and getting more below the ball. You can see you collapse your stroke with your elbow and wrist which suggests you aren't fully swinging from your shoulders, this probably led to your elbow problems?

Getting more below the ball, either you should explore a different grip, develop a more flexible wrist, or bending lower with your legs.
I think you are doing well for being self taught, just work on the swing so you don't have to pull up instead allow it to come from the swing from below.

 

[NuBas]

Another thing you pointed out was you contact point. To me its a tiny bit late, you could make contact earlier and to do so you just have to reach out in front more. It will feel odd but you will get used to it. Don't wait for ball to come to you.

 

[bfroxen]

@Dou and @NuBas, I was wondering about the lateness. I've been hitting lately with a guy who is much better than me, and while I can bash with him pretty well, it feels like I'm having to put too much effort into the swing. I'll look into this.

@NuBas, I was just looking for the biggest things to work on. Can you elaborate on "you collapse your stroke"? Is that before contact? Perhaps related to my spacing problem? My elbow is OK as long as my strings are moving freely, but if I can make it less sensitive, that'd be great.

 

[Dou]

@Dou and @NuBas, I was wondering about the lateness. I've been hitting lately with a guy who is much better than me, and while I can bash with him pretty well, it feels like I'm having to put too much effort into the swing. I'll look into this.

@NuBas, I was just looking for the biggest things to work on. Can you elaborate on "you collapse your stroke"? Is that before contact? Perhaps related to my spacing problem? My elbow is OK as long as my strings are moving freely, but if I can make it less sensitive, that'd be great.

throw the racket into the ball

if taken literally, you actually throw the racket, then at impact your hand would be off the handle. that's how it should feel. if the impact is say 2 feet in front of the right hip, then once the hand passes the hip, or the racket head is still 2-3 feet from contact, you need to 'let go', let the hand and the racket 'coast' to the ball. by the way there is another thread talking about 'hitting window'... I tried to make a point there, that the 'coasting' is almost a straight line to the target, gives you great accuracy and effortless power.. in other words, the last 2-3 feet of the racket head travel before the contact is really just a 'follow thru' after you let go.

minimum effort drill

besides what Thomas says, try this.. when you let the racket 'coast' to the ball, you should feel the racket head just makes a light touch on the ball, and watch that ball fly! it will absolutely surprise you with the spin and depth.

 

[NuBas]

@Dou and @NuBas, I was wondering about the lateness. I've been hitting lately with a guy who is much better than me, and while I can bash with him pretty well, it feels like I'm having to put too much effort into the swing. I'll look into this.

@NuBas, I was just looking for the biggest things to work on. Can you elaborate on "you collapse your stroke"? Is that before contact? Perhaps related to my spacing problem? My elbow is OK as long as my strings are moving freely, but if I can make it less sensitive, that'd be great.

On some strokes from the side view, I saw you turning your forearm and since you are trying to achieve the straight arm forehand, you should really try to extend your arm more. I see after you make contact it kinda comes from your elbow the swing, just my observation. Again, its a good stroke and our suggestions may or may not translate into better performance in matches if that is your thing.

 

[watungga]

Only a year of tennis, and now you've got elbow support. It's definitely that the fundamental backhand stroke is broken.
The same is also getting aggravated by your forehand. During takeback, youu have a habit of "freezing" the racquet head pointing at the back.
That position is not the launching point. The launching point is the racquet head point skyward.

 

[bfroxen]

Here's an update after a month. I've mostly eliminated the footwork where my right foot steps in front of my left foot. Instead, I properly close my stance and step into shorter balls. I'm trying to jump less, but I haven't focused on that. I'm keeping my left arm up and generally catching the racquet when I'm well setup for the stroke. I've worked a lot on getting more space; still a work in progress, but I get jammed a bit less often. I've tried to prep earlier and initiate my swing a bit earlier. My contact point seems about the same, maybe a bit further in front; my elbow has improved. Thanks all for the feedback so far, and I welcome further comments.

 

[dgold44]

Hi all. I took up tennis about a year ago and have primarily taught myself with the help of YouTube, this forum, a ball machine, and video. I hadn't taken video in a while but recorded some forehands the other day. I see some things I could improve, but what do you see?

The video shows three different angles, and I rendered it at half speed, so you can watch it in real time by adjusting the playback speed.

Thanks in advance (I hope).

Seems you’re falling back a little
Push off your back foot more

 

[VacationTennis]

Fh looks good, there are a lot of good things going on here. I'm seeing some good unit turn structure and posture from the first video. Try using your left hand to push the racket to help assist your unit turn, it will help rotate your entire shoulders and torso as a unit, and also help keep your shoulder structure from falling apart too quickly.

Definitely work on generating your rhs from the pushing of the ground and hips/torso rotation, NOT from your arm initiating the swing. Keep working on more coiling, loose arm, and that racket will start lagging more - then you'll start to get some effortless rhs