Hewitt, Kafelnikov, and Roddick- who is the best

Best player out of Kafelnikov, Hewitt, and Roddick


  • Total voters
    74
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Who is the best of these 3 players. I would say Hewitt probably.
 

HackersRUs

Rookie
Hewitt. all court player
(well, when he remembered he could volley, at least!)

number 1 for 80 weeks, 2 grand slams, 13 years in the top 10

no contest

Roddick next, even if his game has all but vanished now.

10 years in teh top 10 speaks for itself.

Kafelnikov? Seriously?
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
Lleyton Hewitt.

1. Lleyton Hewitt
2. Yevgeny Kafelnikov
3. Andy Roddick
 
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egn

Hall of Fame
Hewitt. all court player
(well, when he remembered he could volley, at least!)

number 1 for 80 weeks, 2 grand slams, 13 years in the top 10

no contest

Roddick next, even if his game has all but vanished now.

10 years in teh top 10 speaks for itself.

Kafelnikov? Seriously?
For Hewitt I think yea mean 100...

Yea It's Hewitt then Roddick not far behind. I'm sorry Kafelnikov is well behind these two. Rafter would be probably a better choice here but Kafelnikov does not compare. Give Roddick Kafelnikov's 1999 Aussie run and he would have two majors as well.
 

armsty

Hall of Fame
At their prime, Hewitt was the best.

Career wise though, Roddick > Hewitt. To stay in the Top 10 for 50 years or whatever Roddick has done is phenomenal. Hewitt in recent years hasn't displayed that sort of form consistently.
 

HackersRUs

Rookie
you can track Hewitt's ranking if you like, but he won his first tournament in 1998 (beating agassi in the s/f) and reached the top 10 in early 1999, of course he finished 2000 and 2001 as year end # 1, but his ranking didn't drop below 10 until late 2009 IIRC
 

HackersRUs

Rookie
in fact, I tunr out ot be incorrect. Hewitt entered the top 10 in 1999 but dropped to 20 in 2006... my bad, 7 years in the top 10.
 

jrepac

Hall of Fame
I like Hewitt, but Kafelnikov has more raw skill, I think. And Roddick has done better than both in terms of longevity.
 

HackersRUs

Rookie
nah, Roddick's PR people are awesome, all this 10 years in the top 10 stuff. Except, it isn't true, he didn't hit the top 10 until 2002 and was number 1 for about 5 minutes, hardly Hewitt stats...
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Kafelnikov is 1-7 lifetime vs Hewitt, most of the matches at Kafelnikov's peak (1999-2000) and when Hewitt was an up and comer. I believe in their 2nd last match Kafelnikov who was still in his prime got embarassed at the U.S Open by up and coming Hewitt who would win his first slam.

So for me the possible orders are either Hewitt-Kafelnikov- Roddick, Hewitt- Roddick-Kafelnikov, Roddick- Hewitt-Kafelnikov. Roddick is more of a subjective matter since he has 1 less slam but overall more longevity and more success in other ways. So depending on your critiera and subjective opinions on his abilities he could be over Hewitt, between them, or last.

However comparing Hewitt to Kafelnikov, Hewitt has 2 slams just like Kafelnikov (and arguably the 2 more prestigious to boot), but an infinitely superior record overall, and on top of that made Kafelnikov even at his best his b*tch so I cant see how one could argue Kafelnikov being better than Hewitt, irregardless how Roddick compares to both.
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
Here are the head-to-heads involving these players

Lleyton Hewitt 6-6 Andy Roddick
2001 Miami QF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (6-3, 6-2)
2001 French Open R32: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (6-7, 6-4, 2-2 ret.)
2001 US Open QF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 3-6, 6-4)
2004 Queen's Club SF: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (7-6, 6-3)
2004 Masters Cup SF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (6-3, 6-2)
2005 Australian Open SF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (3-6, 7-6, 7-6, 6-1)
2005 Indian Wells SF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (7-6, 6-7, 7-6)
2005 Cincinnati SF: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-4, 7-6)
2006 US Open QF: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 7-5, 6-4)
2009 Memphis SF: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (2-6, 7-6, 6-4)
2009 Queen's Club R16: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (7-6, 7-6)
2009 Wimbledon QF: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 6-7, 7-6, 4-6, 6-4)

Hardcourt: 5-3 to Hewitt
Clay: 1-0 to Hewitt
Grass: 3-0 to Roddick
Carpet: 0-0
In Slams: 3-2 to Hewitt


Lleyton Hewitt 7-1 Yevgeny Kafelnikov
1999 Davis Cup SF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 7-5, 6-2)
1999 Paris Indoor R32: Lleyton Hewitt def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 2-6, 6-4)
2000 Miami R16: Lleyton Hewitt def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 6-3)
2000 World Team Cup RR: Yevgeny Kafelnikov def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-1, 6-2)
2000 Stuttgart Indoor SF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 6-7, 6-3)
2001 US Open SF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-1, 6-2, 6-1)
2002 Paris Indoor R16: Lleyton Hewitt def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-2, 7-6)
2003 Indian Wells R32: Lleyton Hewitt def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-3, 6-2)

Hardcourt: 4-0 to Hewitt
Clay: 1-0 to Kafelnikov
Grass: 1-0 to Hewitt
Carpet: 2-0 to Hewitt
In Slams: 1-0 to Hewitt


Yevgeny Kafelnikov 0-0 Andy Roddick
Never met.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
in fact, I tunr out ot be incorrect. Hewitt entered the top 10 in 1999 but dropped to 20 in 2006... my bad, 7 years in the top 10.
Hewitt finished 25 in 1999 and only had 5 years finished in the top 10 though he was in it for most of 2003 but granted he was not playing well at all. I mean get your facts right. He only finished top ten in 2000,2001,2002,2004,2005 and he never broke top 10 in 1999, first time he made top 10 was may of 2000. He finished 2003 at 17. Hewitt only had 5 years finished in the top 10.

nah, Roddick's PR people are awesome, all this 10 years in the top 10 stuff. Except, it isn't true, he didn't hit the top 10 until 2002 and was number 1 for about 5 minutes, hardly Hewitt stats...
Andy Roddick has finished in the top 10 for 9 straight years...that's 4 more years total than Hewitt. Yes he was never number 1 as long but Roger Federer kind of showed up. Had Roddick won one more major he would easily be ahead of Hewitt as nobody would fault him for not being ranked 1 behind Federer or Nadal. Roddick is hands down a better hardcourt player than Hewitt sure Hewitt has a final at both majors but outside of his one run to the Aussie Open finals he never was a factor. Roddick is probably just as good of a grass court player but ran into Federer 4 times when he finally got going. However at the end of the day the results are what matters and Hewitt just edges out Roddick, but I'm sorry Roddick if he finishes this year in the top 10 again he will be top 10 for 10 years in a row. I'm heavily doubting it though but we will see. 9 straight years in the top 10 is still very impressive.
 

westside

Hall of Fame
At their prime, Hewitt was the best.

Career wise though, Roddick > Hewitt. To stay in the Top 10 for 50 years or whatever Roddick has done is phenomenal. Hewitt in recent years hasn't displayed that sort of form consistently.
Disagree.

2 slams > 1 Slam
2 YEC > 0 YEC
80 Weeks at #1 > 8 weeks?

Yes, Roddick has been in the top 10 for longer, but how that is greater than the stats listed above is beyond me.

Also
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=362328&page=6&highlight=Hewitt+Roddick+career
 

HackersRUs

Rookie
lol, apparently I need to post a link, and it's nit picking, but you're wrong... (Egn, I mean)
Andy (who I admire, by the way, or at leat I used to!) entered the top 10 ( briefly) on 04/08/2002, fell out of it agan pretty much straight away before getttng back to 10 in that november, where he has been since. That's 8 years. as for being number one in the absence of Federer, serious??

He made it to 2 for a while in 2004, but that was the only time, you're kidding yourself, mate..

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Andy-Roddick.aspx?t=rh
 
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I like Hewitt, but Kafelnikov has more raw skill, I think. And Roddick has done better than both in terms of longevity.
I think you're right. In terms of sheer talent, Kafelnikov actually is quite a bit ahead of Hewitt, and Roddick...well he lags way behind Hewitt.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
Disagree.

2 slams > 1 Slam
2 YEC > 0 YEC
80 Weeks at #1 > 8 weeks?

Yes, Roddick has been in the top 10 for longer, but how that is greater than the stats listed above is beyond me.

Also
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=362328&page=6&highlight=Hewitt+Roddick+career
5 Slam Finals > 4 Slam Finals
10 Slam Semifinals > 8 Slam Semi Finals
6 Master Series > 2 Master Series
9 top 10 years > 5 top 10 years
29 titles > 28 titles
Roddick Win % > Hewitt Win %

Hewitt is greater solely cause of one more major. If Roddick had another major though then the conversation would be a lot different, but he doesn't so Hewitt is better but Roddick is definitely ahead of Kafelnikov and right behind Hewitt.
 

egn

Hall of Fame
lol, apparently I need to post a link, and it's nit picking, but you're wrong... (Egn, I mean)
Andy (who I admire, by the way, or at leat I used to!) entered the top 10 ( briefly) on 04/08/2002, fell out of it agan pretty much straight away before getttng back to 10 in that november, where he has been since. That's 8 years. as for being number one in the absence of Federer, serious??

He made it to 2 for a while in 2004, but that was the only time, you're kidding yourself, mate..

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Andy-Roddick.aspx?t=rh
At least he was in the top 10 in 2002. You haven't posted your evidence of Hewitt being top 10 for 7 years..either way he has more top 10 time then Hewitt. See http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Lleyton-Hewitt.aspx?t=rh Hewitt first case of entering top ten was May of 2000 and is out of it by 2006 and not even in it for the second half of 03 or the first half of 04. And I never calimed it was 8 years where do I say that? Eliminate Fed it's easy to see that Roddick finishes 2004 most likely number 1 and loses it once Nadal rolls in during 2005. Without Fed in 04 Roddick handsdown grabs the 1 ranking. He made it to 2 for a while in 2004? He was 2 for most of 2004. He was 1 until post Australian Open lost it to Fed fell to 3 then grabbed it back in April and held it until the next Australian Open then Hewitt grabbed it with his run to the final who held it until Nadal grabbed it and then within 6 months was out of the top 10. I never even made a ridiculous claim as yours. Besides Roddick was 2 in 2003 as well and well then it was history from 2005 on he never was able to get 2 again because of Fed and Nadal for obvious reasons. However he was 3 for a short while in I believe 05 and 06 and possibly a week or two in 07. I said he finished 9 years in the top 10 not that he has been there for 9 straight years. He has finished 9 years as one of the top 10 players look below.

2002-10-year 1
2003-1- year 2
2004-2- year 3
2005-3- year 4
2006-6- year 5
2007-6- year 6
2008-8- year 7
2009-7- year 8
2010-8- year 9

I'm not even arguing Hewitt was better but all I simply said was if Roddick had one more major this conversation would be a different discussion. I frickin voted for Hewitt dammit.
 
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glazkovss

Professional
It's hard to compare - all 3 are great players. So i'll just remind Kafelnikov's achievements for some people here who downgrade him.

Year-ends in top 10: 6
1995 - 6
1996 - 3
1997 - 5
1999 - 2
2000 - 5
2001 - 4
Plus 2 years he finished at #11.

Ranked No. 1 for 6 weeks.

No. 6 in all-time career earnings with $28m. Above him only Federer, Sampras, Nadal, Agassi, Becker. For comparison Roddick is No. 12 ($19m), Hewitt is No. 13 ($18m), and their careers is not so far from over. Also remember that prize money increase with years.

Grand Slam Singles titles: 2
1996 - French Open
1999 - Australian Open

Grand Slam Doubles titles: 4
1996 - French Open
1997 - French Open, US Open
2002 - French Open

Olympic Gold Medal in Singles in 2000

Davis Cup Champion in 2002

Career Singles Titles: 26

Career Doubles Titles: 27 (including 7 Masters Series)
 

Wuornos

Professional
I would go for Roddick. Albeit very narrowly from Hewitt.

I know he has only scored 1 major singles titles to the others two but the ratings I calculate are a function of three elements.

1. Achievement - Meaning level of success.
2. Quality of opposition. Calculated using a multi itterative approach.
3. Domination. Meaning concentration of success within a limited time scale.

In other words something very similar to an ELO rating with some adjustment to allow for a reduction in rating over time due to inactivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating.

The peak ratings for the above three players are:

Roddick 2689 achieved after Wimbledon of 2005.
Hewitt 2686 also achieved after Wimbledon of 2005
Kafelnikov 2659 achieved after the French Open of 1996.

No better and no worse than anyone elses opinion, it's just that I like to evaluate things numerically.

Take care all

Tim
 
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Photo

Banned
I would go for Roddick. Albeit very narrowly from Hewitt.

I know he has only scored 1 major singles titles to the others two but the ratings I calculate are a function of three elements.

1. Achievement - Meaning level of success.
2. Quality of opposition. Calculated using a multi itterative approach.
3. Domination. Meaning concentration of success within a limited time scale.

In other words something very similar to an ELO rating with some adjustment to allow for a reduction in rating over time due to inactivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating.

The peak ratings for the above three players are:

Roddick 2689 achieved after Wimbledon of 2005.
Hewitt 2686 also achieved after Wimbledon of 2005
Kafelnikov 2659 achieved after the French Open of 1996.

No better and no worse than anyone elses opinion, it's just that I like to evaluate things numerically.

Take care all

Tim
I am with Tim. Your statement is clearly convincing.
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
not easy to decide between roddick and hewitt... more consistency for roddick, but hewitt achieved "more" (2 slams + 2 year-end masters), especially during the first of his two peaks (2001-2002 and 2004-2005).

slam wins: H,K:2, R:1
slam finals: R:5, H:4, K:3
slam SF: R:10, H:8, K:6
slam QF: R:18, H:15, K:13

year-end masters: 2 wins + 1 final for H, 1 final + 2 SF for K, 3 SF for R
total titles: R:29, H:28, K:26

others: olympic medal for K, but R and H were better davis cup players


about kafelnikov, despite his respectable achievements, i think he generally failed to deliver a strong opposition to the greats of his time in the crucial matches... he has been often severly spanked (a lot more than roddick and hewitt).
 

glazkovss

Professional
not easy to decide between roddick and hewitt... more consistency for roddick, but hewitt achieved "more" (2 slams + 2 year-end masters), especially during the first of his two peaks (2001-2002 and 2004-2005).

slam wins: H,K:2, R:1
slam finals: R:5, H:4, K:3
slam SF: R:10, H:8, K:6
slam QF: R:18, H:15, K:13

year-end masters: 2 wins + 1 final for H, 1 final + 2 SF for K, 3 SF for R
total titles: R:29, H:28, K:26

others: olympic medal for K, but R and H were better davis cup players


about kafelnikov, despite his respectable achievements, i think he generally failed to deliver a strong opposition to the greats of his time in the crucial matches... he has been often severly spanked (a lot more than roddick and hewitt).

DC results


Kafelnikov
Winner - 2002. Finalist - 1994, 1995.
Singles 31-16
Doubles 13-12
Total 44-28

Hewitt
Winner - 1999, 2003. Finalist - 2000, 2001.
SIngles 36-9
Doubles 8-3
Total 44-12

Roddick
Winner - 2007, Finalist - 2004.
Singles 31-11
Doubles 0-0
Total 31-11

Hewitt is clearly the best of three by W-L % in Singles and Doubles and by achievements. But Kafelnikov and Roddick are very close, difference is Yevgeny did play doubles, but Andy didn't. Yevgeny's doubles W-L % is not very high, but he still did help his country by winning doubles on 13 occasions and played bigger part in Russia's successes than Andy in USA's, whom Bryan bros helped a lot.

As for delivering a strong oposition to the greats of their time in crucial mathes, lets compare Kaf's, Rod's, Hew's H2H against Federer and Nadal, Sampras and Agassi (overall and in GS tournaments).

Kafelnikov 10-21 (3-5 in GS)
vs Sampras 2-11 (1-1 in GS)
vs Agassi 4-8 (1-4 in GS)
vs Federer 4-2 (1-0 in GS)

Hewitt 21-31 (3-14 in GS)
vs Federer 8-17 (0-8 in GS)
vs Nadal 4-6 (2-4 in GS)
vs Sampras 5-4 (1-1 in GS)
vs Agassi 4-4 (0-1 in GS)

Roddick 8-32 (1-9 in GS)
vs Nadal 3-6 (1-0 in GS)
vs Federer 2-20 (0-8 in GS)
vs Sampras 2-1 (0-1 in GS)
vs Agassi 1-5 (0-0 in GS)

As you can see, Hewitt has the best overall H2H against greats, Kafelnikov did better against greats in GS, and Roddick is the one who "has been spanked more often".
 

glazkovss

Professional
Kafelnikov's H2H against other, "not so" greats:
vs Becker 2-4
vs Edberg 2-1
vs Chang 4-0
vs Courier 5-1
vs Muster 1-4
vs Ivanisevic 5-10
vs Kuerten 5-7

Not as once-sided as you might hafe thought...
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
Kafelnikov's H2H against other, "not so" greats:
vs Becker 2-4
vs Edberg 2-1
vs Chang 4-0
vs Courier 5-1
vs Muster 1-4
vs Ivanisevic 5-10
vs Kuerten 5-7

Not as once-sided as you might hafe thought...
mmmh when i said "spanking", i agree it might have sounded a bit "severe"... but i was rather thinking on some scorelines against top players in the big matches (the final of the masters 1997, or his SF at the USO 2001 come to my mind, for instance).
according to you, what would be the biggest win(s) of his career ?
(no mention of sampras at RG 1996, please !) ;)
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
Kafelnikov's worst head-to-head was against Berasategui.

Alberto Berasategui 5-0 Yevgeny Kafelnikov
1993 Athens R32: Alberto Berasategui def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-2, 6-1)
1994 French Open R32: Alberto Berasategui def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-3, 6-2, 6-2)
1994 Stuttgart Outdoor QF: Alberto Berasategui def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 6-0)
1997 Rome R16: Alberto Berasategui def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-3, 6-2)
1998 Barcelona QF: Alberto Berasategui def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 6-4)

Hardcourt: 0-0
Clay: 5-0 to Berasategui
Grass: 0-0
Carpet: 0-0
In Slams: 1-0 to Berasategui


Challenger matches
1993 Ljubljana R16: Alberto Berasategui def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (6-4, 6-0)
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
mmmh when i said "spanking", i agree it might have sounded a bit "severe"... but i was rather thinking on some scorelines against top players in the big matches (the final of the masters 1997, or his SF at the USO 2001 come to my mind, for instance).
according to you, what would be the biggest win(s) of his career ?
(no mention of sampras at RG 1996, please !) ;)
Kafelnikov's biggest win was his 1996 French Open final against Stich. That's a tournament he won by dropping just 1 set.
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
Kafelnikov's biggest win was his 1996 French Open final against Stich. That's a tournament he won by dropping just 1 set.
i saw it... not a bad match (it was relatively close), but not an unforgettable one either. and that's a bit the problem with kafelnikov, in my opinion...

maybe his win over agassi in davis cup was more impressive ? (but i didn't see it... how did agassi play ?)
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
i saw it... not a bad match (it was relatively close), but not an unforgettable one either. and that's a bit the problem with kafelnikov, in my opinion...
Well that's Kafelnikov's MO. He did most things well and was consisent on a week to week basis, but very rarely did he do things brilliantly or in a thrilling fashion.

maybe his win over agassi in davis cup was more impressive ? (but i didn't see it... how did agassi play ?)
That was a good tie for Kafelnikov. He also beat Courier. I don't think I've seen any of that Kafelnikov vs. Agassi match since it was shown on an ATP highlights show back in 1998. It was one of Kafelnikov's more impressive displays, even a bagel in one set. Agassi at the time was making his way back up the rankings after his 1997 descent to 141 in the world, but Agassi had shown some good form in the last few months, and had just gotten to the final of Miami, the match where Rios beat Agassi and became world number 1.

At the time of the Kafelnikov vs. Agassi Davis Cup match, Kafelnikov's world ranking was number 6 and Agassi's world ranking was number 22.
 

glazkovss

Professional
mmmh when i said "spanking", i agree it might have sounded a bit "severe"... but i was rather thinking on some scorelines against top players in the big matches (the final of the masters 1997, or his SF at the USO 2001 come to my mind, for instance).
according to you, what would be the biggest win(s) of his career ?
(no mention of sampras at RG 1996, please !) ;)
Agree, that was by far his most impressive match win, and the one that probably prevented Pistol Pete from completing his career GS. I guess Yevgeny's losses to Pete and Andre were more lopsided than Roddick's to Federer because the Russian didn't have such a big serve which could have helped him get to tie-breaks some times. Nevertheless, A-Rod and Lleyton also got their share of "spanking" at USO 2004 Final and AO 2007&2009 Semi ;)
 

PBODY99

Legend
Best at what? I pick YK for the style he played, which did not rely on shear speed[H] or a big serve[our Andy]. So for my viewing enjoyment, I go with the Russian.
 

glazkovss

Professional
i saw it... not a bad match (it was relatively close), but not an unforgettable one either. and that's a bit the problem with kafelnikov, in my opinion...

maybe his win over agassi in davis cup was more impressive ? (but i didn't see it... how did agassi play ?)
I also don't have any unforgettable Kafelnikov wins over big boys on my memory. Maybe against Krajicek at USO 1999? But than, Krajicek is not as great as Pete or Andre. If speak about wins over Agassi, i saw that Davis Cup match and can't say that the level of play was very good. The victory that impressed me most was at Montreal 1999, 6/1 6/4 - the level of play was very high, both Yevgeny and Andre was at the top of their games. That summer Agassi lost only to Kafelnikov (once) and Sampras (3 times), won US and French Opens, reached final at Wimbledon. It's a pity Sampras missed US Open that year because he played head and shoulders above everyone that summer, beating in-form Agassi 3 consecutive times without a loss of a set, and winning 4 straight titles.
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
Agree, that was by far his most impressive match win, and the one that probably prevented Pistol Pete from completing his career GS. I guess Yevgeny's losses to Pete and Andre were more lopsided than Roddick's to Federer because the Russian didn't have such a big serve which could have helped him get to tie-breaks some times. Nevertheless, A-Rod and Lleyton also got their share of "spanking" at USO 2004 Final and AO 2007&2009 Semi ;)
but i mean... you're not seriously considering the 1996 RG SF, right ? he didn't face the real pete... but his exhausted ghost, after several gruelling matches in the previous rounds ! ;)
It's a pity Sampras missed US Open that year because he played head and shoulders above everyone that summer, beating in-form Agassi 3 consecutive times without a loss of a set, and winning 4 straight titles.
totally agree... pete was amazing in this summer 1999 !
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
but i mean... you're not seriously considering the 1996 RG SF, right ? he didn't face the real pete... but his exhausted ghost, after several gruelling matches in the previous rounds ! ;)
That may have been true in the second and third sets, but the first set was competitive stuff.
 

glazkovss

Professional
but i mean... you're not seriously considering the 1996 RG SF, right ? he didn't face the real pete... but his exhausted ghost, after several gruelling matches in the previous rounds ! ;)
Pete must have played for his life, i think he wanted RG title so badly...:)

OK, let's see what A-Rod has in store against greats at GS:
lone victory against 17-year old Rafa ranked No. 49 at his worst major.
Not that much either. Sadly for Roddick, his heroics against Federer at Wimbledon weren't rewarded.

Hewitt, as well as Kafelnikov, has only one impressive win over greats at the slams: 2001 US Open final. Lleyton's victories over 16, 17 year-old Nadal in Melbourne also can't be seen as serious achievements. His biggest victory apart from slams should have been a 5-setter over Federer in DC 2003, that was important! And this one rises him in "The unforgettable matches won" department above Kaf and Rod, thanks to his fighting abilities:)
 

HackersRUs

Rookie
hmm, all this 'vs greats' stuff in interesting and all, but it seems to ignore some factors..

if you want to split Hewitt and Kafelnikov, why not look at the H2H between them?

Oh, look, Hewitt leads 7 - 1...

He and Roddick are 6 - 6, by the way.
 

egn

Hall of Fame

DC results

As for delivering a strong oposition to the greats of their time in crucial mathes, lets compare Kaf's, Rod's, Hew's H2H against Federer and Nadal, Sampras and Agassi (overall and in GS tournaments).

Kafelnikov 10-21 (3-5 in GS)
vs Sampras 2-11 (1-1 in GS)
vs Agassi 4-8 (1-4 in GS)
vs Federer 4-2 (1-0 in GS)

Hewitt 21-31 (3-14 in GS)
vs Federer 8-17 (0-8 in GS)
vs Nadal 4-6 (2-4 in GS)
vs Sampras 5-4 (1-1 in GS)
vs Agassi 4-4 (0-1 in GS)

Roddick 8-32 (1-9 in GS)
vs Nadal 3-6 (1-0 in GS)
vs Federer 2-20 (0-8 in GS)
vs Sampras 2-1 (0-1 in GS)
vs Agassi 1-5 (0-0 in GS)

As you can see, Hewitt has the best overall H2H against greats, Kafelnikov did better against greats in GS, and Roddick is the one who "has been spanked more often".
This is such ********. For lack of a better word. Really all of Hewitt's wins on Fed basically come prior to Fed hitting his stride. Once Fed got going Hewitt couldn't win a match until Halle last year. Hewitt was still playing top form 04-05 the difference was Fed had peaked. Roddick and Fed got going at the same time and well Roddick was a bad match up and just creamed over and over again as they just met each other some much from 03-07 sure Hewitt beat baby Fed before he was in his prime but who gives a crap in the scheme of things. When it came down to it both have one what I would consider good win on the other. Roddick pulled through against Fed in Montreal denying him the number 1 ranking and Hewitt beat Fed to win DCUP, but this was still pre streamroller Federer. Oh and come on Hewitt's two Nadal wins just like Roddick's are a joke. Evaluating them based on such a small group is stupid. Roddick overall did better on the tour than both of them just look at the full tour win percentages.

Besides we are talking ONE-TWO major winners. How many wins do you expect them to have over the greats at the best. If that was the case they would be the greats and we would be comparing them to the greats!?!?!
 

glazkovss

Professional
This is such ********. For lack of a better word. Really all of Hewitt's wins on Fed basically come prior to Fed hitting his stride. Once Fed got going Hewitt couldn't win a match until Halle last year. Hewitt was still playing top form 04-05 the difference was Fed had peaked. Roddick and Fed got going at the same time and well Roddick was a bad match up and just creamed over and over again as they just met each other some much from 03-07 sure Hewitt beat baby Fed before he was in his prime but who gives a crap in the scheme of things. When it came down to it both have one what I would consider good win on the other. Roddick pulled through against Fed in Montreal denying him the number 1 ranking and Hewitt beat Fed to win DCUP, but this was still pre streamroller Federer. Oh and come on Hewitt's two Nadal wins just like Roddick's are a joke. Evaluating them based on such a small group is stupid. Roddick overall did better on the tour than both of them just look at the full tour win percentages.

Besides we are talking ONE-TWO major winners. How many wins do you expect them to have over the greats at the best. If that was the case they would be the greats and we would be comparing them to the greats!?!?!
The one and only purpose of this calculation was not to judge who of three is/was better, but to counter vive le beau jeu !'s thoughts of spanking with some facts. I'm glad that since that point the conversation was held in good spirit, with a bit of humor, because this kind of threads cannot be taken too seriously.

HackersRUs, are you serious? There were posts above, providing some YK H2H's against other players. If judge only by it, as you suggest, he was better player than Chang and Courier and worse than Muster and Berasategui.
 

GameSetR

Rookie
Hewitt was a better player than Roddick and Kafelnikov.

Kafelnikov vs Roddick... flip a coin. They were basically the same tier. A match between would have been a nice slugfest, and I suspect if they played 10 times, it might very well be 5-5.
 
I think Kafelnikov was more talented than Hewitt or Roddick, but had a far worse head than any of them. And bad conditioning (he became hugely fat shortly after retirement), and less fighting spirit, more interested in the money than the glory.
He was even suspect of match fixing in his last 2 years.
Kafelnikov won one French open, but he also lost 2 5 set matches against Guga, and another tight 4 sets match. All the matches were lost pretty much from bad stamina, losing the last 2 sets.




2001 Roland Garros
France
Outdoor Clay QF Gustavo Kuerten 61 36 763 64


2000 Roland Garros
France
Outdoor Clay QF Gustavo Kuerten 63 36 46 64 62


1997 Roland Garros
France
Outdoor Clay QF Gustavo Kuerten 62 57 26 60 64

Guga won those 3 slams.

He also had matches against Agassi outclassing him in the first set, while losing all the other sets


2000 Australian Open
Australia
Outdoor Hard F Andre Agassi 36 63 62 64



1999 US Open
NY, U.S.A.
Outdoor Hard SF Andre Agassi 16 63 63 63

At his best Kafelnikov was a bigger Nalbandian who was better on clay than Nalbandian
 

GameSetR

Rookie
Following up on the Kafelnikov vs Roddick thing, I definitely think Kafel was more talented than Roddick, but Andy got more out of what he had, and Andy had more heart.
 
I don't think Kafelnikov was more talented than either Hewitt or Roddick. He was basically a lesser version of Hewitt for me. He did not have the huge weapons in the serve and forehand of Roddick. He was a very steady and solid all around baseliner with very good counterpunching skills, similar to Hewitt, but just a lesser version.
 

GameSetR

Rookie
I don't think Kafelnikov was more talented than either Hewitt or Roddick. He was basically a lesser version of Hewitt for me. He did not have the huge weapons in the serve and forehand of Roddick. He was a very steady and solid all around baseliner with very good counterpunching skills, similar to Hewitt, but just a lesser version.
Kafel did have one of the better backhands of the 90s, and he had a better net game than Roddick.

Roddick would beat Kafel on HC and grass though.

Kafel beats Roddick on clay.
 
I don't think Kafelnikov was more talented than either Hewitt or Roddick. He was basically a lesser version of Hewitt for me. He did not have the huge weapons in the serve and forehand of Roddick. He was a very steady and solid all around baseliner with very good counterpunching skills, similar to Hewitt, but just a lesser version.
Kafelnikov could hit winners on clay with flat shots (without even needing topspin like most clay courters), Hewitt didn't have the power to hit through players on slow surfaces. Kafelnikov was more aggressive than Hewitt and his groundstrokes had a lot more power than Hewitt. He also had better down the line shots than Hewitt. The only disappointing thing about Kafelnikov was his average serve for a tall man, and that he had bad endurance, he would get tired in 5 set matches, he didn't train much and played doubles every tournament.

compare this

to

 
I have seen Kafelnikov and Hewitt play many times in 99-2001, and if Kafelnikov had "more power" it certainly never showed when they played one another. Those were definitely 100% prime years for Kafelnikov btw, with only 2001 being a prime year for Hewitt probably.
 

ChrisG

Professional
3 great players, with very different styles and personalities.
I vote for kafelnikov because that’s the one I’ll be happy to pay to watch him play again. Very classic Russian/Eastern Europe style, great FH, solid 2HBH, very consistent all around player (see his double record).
I disliked Hewitt court attitude and over excited style of play. Roddick is very one dimensional. They all achieved greatness but Kafelnikov is the more refined player
 
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