High school coach does not care for results

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GoTennis

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My daughter is a freshman playing on her high school team. She has a UTR of 8 while the next best player is a 7. The coach assigns my daughter to play singles position 3, trailing a UTR 7 and a UTR 5. In their 1st match against another school, first 2 singles positions lost. Only my daughter won (0,0) against her opponent, within one hour.

Feels like if coach had a different lineup, all 3 positions could have won. Not sure why coach lined my daughter as position#3. In practice the coach always asks my daughter to play with same group of kids who are at the lower end of capability. My daughter is not happy because she is not getting the right workout. She talked to the coach about her concerns. However both the coach and the school athletic director bluffed away her concerns by asking her to focus on team work.

What can we do to get the coach to do what’s right for the team and for my daughter? Brainless lineup does not help anybody. Please share your advice. Thanks!
 
There was a disagreement in a local HS here over a coach whose daughter was on the team; There were allegations of favoritism. The parents went to the principal.

He/she can decide if the coach's decisions are rational, but it will be difficult if he/she is not into tennis. Absent any illegal discrimination and absent any exclusion from the team, it will be difficult to argue about a coach's lineup strategy since it is his call really.
 
I would probably go to the principal like post #2 said, either that or keep trying to explain to the coach. I’m surprised your school is even having tennis right now.
 
sureshs said:
There was a disagreement in a local HS here over a coach whose daughter was on the team; There were allegations of favoritism. The parents went to the principal.

He/she can decide if the coach's decisions are rational, but it will be difficult if he/she is not into tennis. Absent any illegal discrimination and absent any exclusion from the team, it will be difficult to argue about a coach's lineup strategy since it is his call really.
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True, it is the coach’s call. I would hope most coaches understand based on results from players who deserve where, such as if a freshman beats a #1 junior or senior multiple times, based on that I would put the freshman at #1. When I played for my school they had a system where you can challenge a player a rank above you and if you beat them(I think twice, been a long time) you can move up to their rank.
 
GoTennis said:
My daughter is a freshman playing on her high school team. She has a UTR of 8 while the next best player is a 7. The coach assigns my daughter to play singles position 3, trailing a UTR 7 and a UTR 5. In their 1st match against another school, first 2 singles positions lost. Only my daughter won (0,0) against her opponent, within one hour.

Feels like if coach had a different lineup, all 3 positions could have won. Not sure why coach lined my daughter as position#3. In practice the coach always asks my daughter to play with same group of kids who are at the lower end of capability. My daughter is not happy because she is not getting the right workout. She talked to the coach about her concerns. However both the coach and the school athletic director bluffed away her concerns by asking her to focus on team work.

What can we do to get the coach to do what’s right for the team and for my daughter? Brainless lineup does not help anybody. Please share your advice. Thanks!
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There are a few reasons this could be happening.
1) Coach does not research players' UTR
2) Coach goes by seniority (put upper class players higher in the line-up)
3) Coach can be gaming (how did the overall match score turn out? Did the coach throw singles 1 and 2 and win every other court?

Is this only the first match? Is there a pattern?

If you think there is something wrong, you should contact the Athletic Director.
 
I would try having a friendly conversation with the coach with the approach that you just want to understand how he's deciding the lineup and you want opportunities for your daughter to be challenged. If that gets you nowhere or he's rude/dismissive then you're screwed in my experience. Since this isn't Varsity (I assume), winning may not be the priority and you may have to be prepared to accept that his goals differ from yours. Many non-varsity HS coaches have questionable capability or are teachers who are just filling in the coaching spot.
 
GoTennis said:
My daughter is a freshman playing on her high school team. She has a UTR of 8 while the next best player is a 7. The coach assigns my daughter to play singles position 3, trailing a UTR 7 and a UTR 5. In their 1st match against another school, first 2 singles positions lost. Only my daughter won (0,0) against her opponent, within one hour.

Feels like if coach had a different lineup, all 3 positions could have won. Not sure why coach lined my daughter as position#3. In practice the coach always asks my daughter to play with same group of kids who are at the lower end of capability. My daughter is not happy because she is not getting the right workout. She talked to the coach about her concerns. However both the coach and the school athletic director bluffed away her concerns by asking her to focus on team work.

What can we do to get the coach to do what’s right for the team and for my daughter? Brainless lineup does not help anybody. Please share your advice. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Maybe it was a one-off; if it goes on like this for multiple matches, you've got a better case.

Maybe he saw something in your daughter's practice that he didn't like [attitude, hussle, etc.].

Maybe he's experimenting with the lineup [how long has he been coach? What is his record over the years? Do you know any other parents/kids you can talk to about the coaching style?].

Maybe he was stacking the lineup [ie not playing by order of strength]. Then again, if he was, I would think he'd play UTR 5 at #1, UTR 8 at #2, and UTR 7 at #3 thus sacrificing line 1 and maximizing the chances of winning lines 2 & 3 [of course, this assumes that the other coach plays straight up and doesn't also stack].

What were the scores of lines 1 & 2?

The coach's and AD's responses don't seem very logical. You could argue that by placing her higher up, she IS focusing on the team because it's more likely she'll be able to beat a higher rated player from the other team and maximize the team's chances of winning.

Ultimately it's a judgment call: what seems obviously "right" to you might not to the coach. And of course, the coach could have an agenda. Maybe the other 2 girls are kids of friends of his.

Tricky ground, particularly if the coach is one of those passive/aggressive types who can't defend a position but then will try to sabotage someone for complaining.
 
Tell the coarch your daughter needs to play better competition, its a waste of her time to play matches like this.

I didnt play my senior year in HS because a national junior made an agreement with coach to play number 1. I beat him twice in challenge matches and was put at #2, so i practiced with college guys and challengers.

This goes against the "Sportsmanship" high school coaches agree'd to.
 
In truth ... there is ONLY ... a ball to hit ... a point to play ... and YOU ... the player ... to make it happen ... ... ... all the rest is just a bunch of EGO.

Stop your whining and tell your daughter to focus on the job at hand ... and to do the best she can ... always ... ... ... and THAT'S IT!

There are plenty of shots she can practice while playing lesser players ... and it can be good positioning "therapy" ... even when playing pushers and dinkers. Also ... there MUST be many other chances for her to play better players ... unless ... sadly ... the high school team is her only tennis option.

That said ... go ahead and complain to the staff. You ARE technically right.

~ MG
 
In our area high school coaches cannot stack the lineup. They must provide documented proof of challenge matches and scores. It is that simple.

Really UTR and or how they practice and or how they look in the coaches eye does not mater. If player A beats player B beats player C then the lineup is A then B then C no mater the other stuff.
 
GoTennis said:
My daughter is a freshman playing on her high school team. She has a UTR of 8 while the next best player is a 7. The coach assigns my daughter to play singles position 3, trailing a UTR 7 and a UTR 5. In their 1st match against another school, first 2 singles positions lost. Only my daughter won (0,0) against her opponent, within one hour.

Feels like if coach had a different lineup, all 3 positions could have won. Not sure why coach lined my daughter as position#3. In practice the coach always asks my daughter to play with same group of kids who are at the lower end of capability. My daughter is not happy because she is not getting the right workout. She talked to the coach about her concerns. However both the coach and the school athletic director bluffed away her concerns by asking her to focus on team work.

What can we do to get the coach to do what’s right for the team and for my daughter? Brainless lineup does not help anybody. Please share your advice. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Ask for a challenge match for the top spot. If the coach won't allow it then either play assigned spot or leave the team.
 
LOBALOT said:
In our area high school coaches cannot stack the lineup. They must provide documented proof of challenge matches and scores. It is that simple.

Really UTR and or how they practice and or how they look in the coaches eye does not mater. If player A beats player B beats player C then the lineup is A then B then C no mater the other stuff.
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But what if C beats A? Think rock, paper, scissors.
 
Let’s take your parent blinkers off.

1. The UTR rankings are flawed. Especially at kid levels. So the coach obviously does not pick a team based on them.

2. The team was (probably) fairly settled and he is making her ‘earn’ her spot.

3. He is mindful of the other team members and giving them the chance to stay 1 & 2

4. It is junior sport and it is supposed to be fun. Lighten up and give the couch a chance.
 
I think the question that needs to be answered is what is the ethos of the school and the school system in your state/country. Many educational institutions these days engage in practices based on political ideology and the coach could be following procedures requested by the school board. Some of the initiates being pushed these days are devoid of real life matters and common sense.
I would investigate the situation and ask questions to see what their mind set is at.
 
Shut up and play. She is a freshman and many coaches want to let the freshman make to earn it. Just play, win your matches and then next year she will move up.

Regarding going to the principal like some advised year you got to be careful.the principal doesn't care if the coach gives away points as long he is winning the overall contest so it all depends on how the team does overall. If the team loses a lot you might have a chance but if not you just become the "crazy parent".

So if you go to the principal carefully asses whether the coach is in a vulnerable position or not.
 
I could be wrong but you kinda sound like a helicopter parent. The coach sees what the coach sees during practice. HE wants to win too. Maybe there is just something he sees that is keeping her at #3 right now. She'll move up next year but definitely let her fight this battle.
 
This is the correct answer. Especially since the coach mentioned "team" keyword, I have a good feeling that it is the "ego", "attitude", "discipline" and "behaviour" really at question here rather than skill.
dominikk1985 said:
Shut up and play. She is a freshman and many coaches want to let the freshman make to earn it. Just play, win your matches and then next year she will move up.
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Stop right there..... now think what you are saying.
GoTennis said:
My daughter is a freshman playing on her high school team. She has a UTR of 8 while the next best player is
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Really? It is the same attitude you are teaching your kid. To look down upoin somone else (in this case, her own team mates). Everyone play a role in the team. A higher skilled player is not any more important than a lower skilled player in a high school team. It is not NFL.
GoTennis said:
In practice the coach always asks my daughter to play with same group of kids who are at the lower end of capability
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There is a lot more going on in school team than win/loss. Infact winning is NOT the highest priority for a high school tennis team coach. No one is looking forward to a group of non-disciplined individuals who wins all matches as the high school team. The wins are important only enough to keep a good team spirit and motivation. A high school coach does not earn bonus salary for more wins. The school does not earn more income from it either. The main motivation for sports in schools is to build better individuals.

Nothing more to say....

GoTennis said:
Brainless lineup does not help anybody
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Now that being said, I do belive that your daughter may be a lot more skilled in tennis than others in school team or even the competition. Especially since she is a freshman, she might have a larger (tennis) potential than others. If you truly believe this, you may want to check her options "outside" of school, and do the necessary to get her more exposure.

But if you plan to continue in school team, you may want to teach her to respect her team mates, and work as a group, and learn to be a better individual. Otherwise I could see, next year your daughter could be playing #3 doubles partnered with some one she look down on, and lose all matches by a big margin, and then blame it all on her partner.

GoTennis said:
My daughter is not happy because she is not getting the right workout.
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Exactly. I would go one more stop and take her out of the school team, if you do not plan to teach her to get along in the team.
Winning is given more weightage in college tennis, so you may get more leverage with bad attitude. But still do remember that team comes first even in college tennis.


baowow said:
I would not worry or care too much about what position your daughter plays on a HS team. Having an 8 UTR as a freshman, she will have a good chance of playing college tennis somewhere regardless of her HS position. Just focus on improving.
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If you want to know when you are being meddlesome, ask yourself, 'Am I about to tell someone else how to do their job?'. Probably a question most of us should ask before we interject ourselves in to a situation, really. I mean, it's bad enough as it is that coaches have to put up with your kids. Now you gotta jump on their back? If your kid was gonna turn pro, you wouldn't be talking to a High School coach.
Coaches should get an award for having to deal with selfish parents.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
That's if tennis is the only focus. There are other aspects, though: team spirit, camaraderie, working towards a common goal, developing a support network, etc.
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If she is a UTR 5 like the rest of her mates, then yes work together to improve. It's not uncommon to have top kids not practice with the HS team.
 
Thanks for all the responses here! I think a coach shall be fair to all kids. If she has a system she needs to be transparent. Bit it feels like she is whimsical. If she continues to be whimsical and secretive, i will file a complaint yo AD, school superintendent and the board.
 
If I were you I wouldn't have her play on the tennis team. I would have her join soccer team or some other sports. Let her and you take a mental break from tennis. You are not gaining much from HS tennis other than an ego boost that she is better than the rest of the team.
 
GoTennis said:
Thanks for all the responses here! I think a coach shall be fair to all kids. If she has a system she needs to be transparent. Bit it feels like she is whimsical. If she continues to be whimsical and secretive, i will file a complaint yo AD, school superintendent and the board.
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But what exactly would the complaint state? Playing a lineup which you don't think is optimal is a judgment call. Being whimsical is not exactly a crime either. Secretive might be viewed as bad or it might not [ie "it's the coach's decision"].

Also, what is your definition of "fair"? One would be that the best players play the most and in the highest spots. But there are others. Have you considered any of them?

Even if the coach does exactly what you want, is the HS team the best place for your daughter to develop if she's much better than everyone else?

Finally, consider the effect that such a complaint would have on your Freshman daughter with 3 years left of HS tennis.

I do agree that the coach should be transparent, just like a league captain should be when forming a team [ie "we're in it to win it so the best players will get the most matches" vs "we're in it for fun so everyone will get roughly equal playing time"].
 
GoTennis said:
Thanks for all the responses here! I think a coach shall be fair to all kids. If she has a system she needs to be transparent. Bit it feels like she is whimsical. If she continues to be whimsical and secretive, i will file a complaint yo AD, school superintendent and the board.
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That would be a very bad idea unless you have a very specific complaint. basically he either has endanger or abuse kids or he is losing. There is no "fairness" in HS sports and the coach doesn't need to justify himself, the AD only cares about the final result (he has 10 sports and doesn't have time to discuss details like lineup) and if you complain about vague stuff like fairness and being secretive will only lead to you being the crazy parent and the kid being known as problematic personality.
 
GoTennis said:
... i will file a complaint yo AD, school superintendent and the board.
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I second @dominikk1985, "This would be a very bad idea ... will only lead to you being the crazy parent and the kid being known as problematic personality. " She is playing on a team, for heaven's sake. Her mission is to do whatever takes for the team to win. If it mean carrying the water jug to the courts, feeding lower level balls to hit ground strokes or keeping stats at the next home match, she should do it with 100% effort.


GoTennis said:
What can we do to get the coach to do what’s right for the team and for my daughter?
Click to expand...

Coaches and ADs don't want to deal with toxic players or their self-indulgent helicopter parents. Fact is, coaches would much rather see your kid buy into the program and contribute, but if not, after a couple of weeks they won't regret parting ways.


GoTennis said:
... coach and the school athletic director bluffed away her concerns by asking her to focus on team work.
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Sounds to me like your coach and AD is prepping your daughter for the future. If her goal is to play D-something tennis, her focus should be on learning to become a team leader, a teammate fellow players can count on, a motivator and someone committed to the success of the team. I am willing to bet coach has her with the lower level players to build her leadership ability and to model the correct technique or strategy for the other players in the group. The newbie, she has to earn the respect of her teammates, the coaches and the AD. The thing to do, IMHO, is for her to ask the coach what she needs to do to help the team. By helping the team, she'll help herself immensely both short and in the long term.
 
baowow said:
I would not worry or care too much about what position your daughter plays on a HS team. Having an 8 UTR as a freshman, she will have a good chance of playing college tennis somewhere regardless of her HS position. Just focus on improving.
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This!

Have her playing tournaments USTA & ITF jrs (whole new level of head games there) when she’s a Sophomore go for a Summer ITA event or two.
 
How many here played on a high school or college team? Its not your doubles league, this is critical development time for a junior.

Good high school players dont even play against the lesser teams, its a waste of their time, like playing #3 and winning 0-0.
 
LocNetMonster said:
Sounds to me like your coach and AD is prepping your daughter for the future. If her goal is to play D-something tennis, her focus should be on learning to become a team leader, a teammate fellow players can count on, a motivator and someone committed to the success of the team. I am willing to bet coach has her with the lower level players to build her leadership ability and to model the correct technique or strategy for the other players in the group. The newbie, she has to earn the respect of her teammates, the coaches and the AD. The thing to do, IMHO, is for her to ask the coach what she needs to do to help the team. By helping the team, she'll help herself immensely both short and in the long term.
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If that is the case, I'd at least side with the sentiment that the coach should be transparent. But it sounds like this did not happen.

it's also possible the coach has no idea what she's doing [which is why I asked about her track record]. But being "whimsical and secretive" and playing lineups not purely based on UTR isn't proof of that [although it could be supporting evidence].

In the big picture, the kid has 4 years of HS tennis [theoretically] in front of her. It's rather quick to make a judgment after one match and a few weeks of practice.
 
dahcovixx said:
How many here played on a high school or college team? Its not your doubles league, this is critical development time for a junior.

Good high school players dont even play against the lesser teams, its a waste of their time, like playing #3 and winning 0-0.
Click to expand...

Been my experience that players at the USTA National level (meaning they get in to the Nats & Super Nats (Kalamazoo & the like)) rarely bother with High School tennis teams at all.
My daughter and son played for a bad coach, both left the High School team and both played for their college...my son played D2 and my daughter D1, on a scholarship.
 
dahcovixx said:
How many here played on a high school or college team? Its not your doubles league, this is critical development time for a junior.
Click to expand...

I did [HS]. I had no illusions I would be playing college, though.

Good high school players dont even play against the lesser teams, its a waste of their time, like playing #3 and winning 0-0.
Click to expand...

So good HS players should only play when they feel like they'll have a challenge? How will they develop the ability to win matches when they're the heavy favorite? Some crumble under such pressure.

What if the match was easy but it was the deciding factor in the team win? Was it still a waste of time?

If the player [or the parent] is that concerned about potentially wasting time, why bother playing on the team? Focus on tournaments to build up the CV [curriculum vitae, not coronavirus] and the UTR.

I'd argue that there are other benefits of being on a team that go beyond the actual tennis.
 
giantschwinn said:
If I were you I wouldn't have her play on the tennis team. I would have her join soccer team or some other sports. Let her and you take a mental break from tennis. You are not gaining much from HS tennis other than an ego boost that she is better than the rest of the team.
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If I am a college coach and looking at who to give scholarship to, do I give to the team player who helped win a state title, or the kid who thought they were too good to play for the high school with the helicopter parent?
 
joffa101 said:
If I am a college coach and looking at who to give scholarship to, do I give to the team player who helped win a state title, or the kid who thought they were too good to play for the high school with the helicopter parent?
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Probably the kid who was too good to play for their high school I'd imagine.
Rattler said:
Been my experience that players at the USTA National level (meaning they get in to the Nats & Super Nats (Kalamazoo & the like)) rarely bother with High School tennis teams at all.
My daughter and son played for a bad coach, both left the High School team and both played for their college...my son played D2 and my daughter D1, on a scholarship.
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@GoTennis

Land your helicopter!!!!

Stop gassing up the mower!!!!

Answer the QUESTION! (in McEnroe voice)
*Did the team win? If yes, ST_U! Go back to the top of post. If no, continue.

*How many matches were played before this original post? If less than two, ST_U! Go back to the top. If three or more, continue.

*Have you talked to the coach? If yes, try again after a practice or before a practice. You’ll look and sound like a/an ________ if you do it directly after a team loss. If no, schedule a meeting. **continue

**The coach won’t meet? Schedule a meeting with the AD. The AD won’t meet, schedule a meeting with the principal. The principal won’t meet, go to the school board. ***continue

***So you met with the coach, AD, principal, or school board in that order. Your daughter is still undefeated and winning easily. Changes may or may not have happened and you’ve been patient and done everything you could do. Go back to the top of post or have your daughter quit!
 
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