High School JV TENNIS MATCH QUESTION

[shanker]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this but here goes:

My daughter just lost a match in a local high school tournament here in south Texas . She was playing for third place, up 30-15, tied 5 apiece, placing a pro set.
I was told by her that the opposing player's coach made them change courts at the end of the 6th game. There seems to be no reason given except that they were the last match being played and the tournament officials wanted the match closer to where their cars were so they could leave sooner. Funny thing is that the girl whom she was playing was from the school hosting the tournament. Seems like a rule violation to me. Can I formally protest this? Wasting my time? Granted my daughter's mental game is not where it should be but this really freaked her out-changing courts during the match.

Ideas anyone.

Greg

 

[papatenis]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this but here goes:

My daughter just lost a match in a local high school tournament here in south Texas . She was playing for third place, up 30-15, tied 5 apiece, placing a pro set.
I was told by her that the opposing player's coach made them change courts at the end of the 6th game. There seems to be no reason given except that they were the last match being played and the tournament officials wanted the match closer to where their cars were so they could leave sooner. Funny thing is that the girl whom she was playing was from the school hosting the tournament. Seems like a rule violation to me. Can I formally protest this? Wasting my time? Granted my daughter's mental game is not where it should be but this really freaked her out-changing courts during the match.

Ideas anyone.

Greg

That should not freak her out. I really don't see any advantage her opponent gained by moving to another court. She should be able to play under those conditions.

When she moves up to the varsity team, she will encounter many other distractions that she has to be able to handle.

 

[shanker]

I agree that she should have adapted better but, I do think it was gamesmanship on the part of the coach to have the match moved to a different court--in the middle of the match!
My other concern was whether or not it was a rule or code violation.

 

[jmnk]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this but here goes:

My daughter just lost a match in a local high school tournament here in south Texas . She was playing for third place, up 30-15, tied 5 apiece, placing a pro set.
I was told by her that the opposing player's coach made them change courts at the end of the 6th game. There seems to be no reason given except that they were the last match being played and the tournament officials wanted the match closer to where their cars were so they could leave sooner. Funny thing is that the girl whom she was playing was from the school hosting the tournament. Seems like a rule violation to me. Can I formally protest this? Wasting my time? Granted my daughter's mental game is not where it should be but this really freaked her out-changing courts during the match.

Ideas anyone.

Greg

ask the little man inside you 'had my daughter won would I still consider a protest'? I mean if you think it is a rule violation the result should not matter, should it?

 

[SteveI]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this but here goes:

My daughter just lost a match in a local high school tournament here in south Texas . She was playing for third place, up 30-15, tied 5 apiece, placing a pro set.
I was told by her that the opposing player's coach made them change courts at the end of the 6th game. There seems to be no reason given except that they were the last match being played and the tournament officials wanted the match closer to where their cars were so they could leave sooner. Funny thing is that the girl whom she was playing was from the school hosting the tournament. Seems like a rule violation to me. Can I formally protest this? Wasting my time? Granted my daughter's mental game is not where it should be but this really freaked her out-changing courts during the match.

Ideas anyone.

Greg

Hi Greg,

Where was your daughter's coach??? The only way the match could have been moved was if both coaches agreed. If I was coaching (and I do coach HS tennis) I would have let the match be moved only after talking to my player. If you want to protest... go talk to your coach. There are some good reasons to move a match. Trying to get out of the place as fast as possible is not one of them in my book. If the match was moved so more folks could see the match.. well then maybe another story. Someone else needed those courts.. etc. If my player was winning... no way I move the match... NOOOOO way! Try to then explain to the parents why you moved the match when their daughter was winning. I of course understand about mental toughness.. etc.. but it was a tourney... and as a coach..you are supposed to win. I protect my players.. Not try to get to my car faster. Your coach should have had a clue that your daughter might have had a problem. The match was even when the move was made so there is that. It is was a moment to help your daughter learn about mental toughness but I bet your ride home was not a wonderful one.

My question is.. if this match is for 1st place.. do they move it? I bet playing for 3rd felt just as important to your daughter as playing for 1st on that day.

BTW... how did moving the match really save time??? Did you have to pack up the tennis court and move it when the match was over.. and have to carry all sorts of equipement an extra 200 yards? Two girls and 2 tennis bags.. and three tennis balls.. and maybe two score cards? Joking right???

The other coach was just trying to get out the door faster (he was hosting) or it was gamesmanship. Either way not cool.. but your coach should have had a role in the move.

Have a good one..

Steve

 

[shanker]

Hi Greg,

Where was your daughter's coach??? The only way the match could have been moved was if both coaches agreed. If I was coaching (and I do coach HS tennis) I would have let the match be moved only after talking to my player. If you want to protest... go talk to your coach. There are some good reasons to move a match. Trying to get out of the place as fast as possible is not one of them in my book. If the match was moved so more folks could see the match.. well then maybe another story. Someone else needed those courts.. etc. If my player was winning... no way I move the match... NOOOOO way! Try to then explain to the parents why you moved the match when their daughter was winning. I of course understand about mental toughness.. etc.. but it was a tourney... and as a coach..you are supposed to win. I protect my players.. Not try to get to my car faster. Your coach should have had a clue that your daughter might have had a problem. The match was even when the move was made so there is that. It is was a moment to help your daughter learn about mental toughness but I bet your ride home was not a wonderful one.

My question is.. if this match is for 1st place.. do they move it? I bet playing for 3rd felt just as important to your daughter as playing for 1st on that day.

BTW... how did moving the match really save time??? Did you have to pack up the tennis court and move it when the match was over.. and have to carry all sorts of equipement an extra 200 yards? Two girls and 2 tennis bags.. and three tennis balls.. and maybe two score cards? Joking right???

The other coach was just trying to get out the door faster (he was hosting) or it was gamesmanship. Either way not cool.. but your coach should have had a role in the move.

Have a good one..

Steve

Thanks Steve for your insight. I later found out that my daughter's coach was there but was apparently NOT watching or doing something else. I can't believe he let it happen, especially since this was the last and only match going on at the court! I am going to make a protest to someone. My daughter is not usually so timid about things and unfortunately I was not there--had been all day but had to leave to pick up the other two kids from school. Should have sent my wife and stayed there and rode the bus home with the kids. I would have made it known to the coach that he should have at least asked my daughter if it was ok to move courts.

I also did not ever buy the reason why the match was moved in the first place. We are only talked 6 courts in total here and apparently they moved from the third court in the row of four to the first court. Still makes no sense.
Your right, she was playing her heart out for third place.

I will post the outcome of this little mess. In the meantime, lot's of practice.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[SteveI]

Thanks Steve for your insight. I later found out that my daughter's coach was there but was apparently NOT watching or doing something else. I can't believe he let it happen, especially since this was the last and only match going on at the court! I am going to make a protest to someone. My daughter is not usually so timid about things and unfortunately I was not there--had been all day but had to leave to pick up the other two kids from school. Should have sent my wife and stayed there and rode the bus home with the kids. I would have made it known to the coach that he should have at least asked my daughter if it was ok to move courts.

I also did not ever buy the reason why the match was moved in the first place. We are only talked 6 courts in total here and apparently they moved from the third court in the row of four to the first court. Still makes no sense.
Your right, she was playing her heart out for third place.

I will post the outcome of this little mess. In the meantime, lot's of practice.

Thanks,
Greg

Keep us posted. If it was my daughter.. I would be asking the same questions of the coach, the tourney folks and maybe my AD if it came to that. BTW.. I am quite sure it is not in the rule book. In general..HS Tennis follows USTA rules. The tourney officals can move a match for various reasons. Getting out faster should not be one of them. We need to do our best respecting our own sport so others will do the same.

 

[groundbreaker]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this but here goes:

My daughter just lost a match in a local high school tournament here in south Texas . She was playing for third place, up 30-15, tied 5 apiece, placing a pro set.
I was told by her that the opposing player's coach made them change courts at the end of the 6th game. There seems to be no reason given except that they were the last match being played and the tournament officials wanted the match closer to where their cars were so they could leave sooner. Funny thing is that the girl whom she was playing was from the school hosting the tournament. Seems like a rule violation to me. Can I formally protest this? Wasting my time? Granted my daughter's mental game is not where it should be but this really freaked her out-changing courts during the match.

Ideas anyone.

Greg

Sorry to be a party pooper, but that's just how it goes in tennis. Little things like this happen. Your daughter just needs to not let it bother her. Now, did the court change occur during a changeover or right in the middle of a game?

 

[SteveI]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but that's just how it goes in tennis. Little things like this happen. Your daughter just needs to not let it bother her. Now, did the court change occur during a changeover or right in the middle of a game?

The question of course is.. was there a valid reason for it to happen? No..then it was bad news. Bad coaching and lack of respect for the game.

 

[papatenis]

Greg,

I can understand how upset you must be, but I think it's better to put your energy into getting her onto the varsity team.
I hate to say it but it's only a high school jv match.

Focus on the bigger goal of getting her onto the varsity team.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

There is no specific rule that prevents the move to answer your question. The venue or person in charge, in this case the tournament officials at the venue, can make such a move.

The bigger issue is that you missed a huge teaching opportunity. Every great coach and player starts out with the same thing....worry about only what you can control. That must be taught from the day they touch a racquet.

Players can not control the weather, moves like this, or if their opponents hits 3 lucky net cords in a match.

You must take your daughter back to square one and get her mindset to worry about her effort and her preparation, and nothing else. In the end that will be 20000000000 times more important than whether she would have won had she not changed courts.

 

[Six.One.Tour.90FAN]

It's too late no but,
they should have moved court after they finished the game....

 

[SteveI]

There is no specific rule that prevents the move to answer your question. The venue or person in charge, in this case the tournament officials at the venue, can make such a move.

The bigger issue is that you missed a huge teaching opportunity. Every great coach and player starts out with the same thing....worry about only what you can control. That must be taught from the day they touch a racquet.

Players can not control the weather, moves like this, or if their opponents hits 3 lucky net cords in a match.

You must take your daughter back to square one and get her mindset to worry about her effort and her preparation, and nothing else. In the end that will be 20000000000 times more important than whether she would have won had she not changed courts.

I have to agree with all of this. Adding that one of things nice things about playing a HS tennis event (over say a USTA Junior Tourney) is that the HS coach is there is to help, coach, advise his/her players and interface with officals on these sorts of issues. Sounds like this coach did none of that. Everyone seems to think the only issue is her reaction to the court change. The OP has stated that his daughter has a way to go regarding her "mental game". There are certain things to be expected from your HS coach.. and one of them is to not let the other coach use gamesmanship with your players. While the players must work thur any number of things throw at them.. this one was in the hands of her coach. Guy was warming up his car and ordering a pizza when his player was asked to switch courts.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

I have to agree with all of this. Adding that one of things nice things about playing a HS tennis event (over say a USTA Junior Tourney) is that the HS coach is there is to help, coach, advise his/her players and interface with officals on these sorts of issues. Sounds like this coach did none of that. Everyone seems to think the only issue is her reaction to the court change. The OP has stated that his daughter has a way to go regarding her "mental game". There are certain things to be expected from your HS coach.. and one of them is to not let the other coach use gamesmanship with your players. While the players must work thur any number of things throw at them.. this one was in the hands of her coach. Guy was warming up his car and ordering a pizza when his player was asked to switch courts.

My problem is with the dad to be honest. He wants to "file a protest".

That is the very worst lesson for a tennis kid. Her mental game certainly won't get better if he reacts this way. Had she been hooked and had points stolen from her, by all means teach her to stick up for herself.

But a change of court, even if not the right thing for the adults to do, can not be reacted to like this by the parent. The message he is sending is all wrong. She will eventually see every trick in tennis. Opponents faking injury for time when losing. Fans trying to distract her. Other girls watching her warm up and saying to their friends, "her butt looks big when she serves". (thats an old trick among the younger girls, many times it gets the opponent thinking about her appearance and not her serving).

If he wants her to go anywhere at all in the tennis game, his reaction can only be to listen and when she calms down say, "honey, you need to focus on the things you can control. You could only control how YOU reacted after the move. You could only focus on playing your best despite the court change. Life is not always fair. But the players who worry only about their effort and preparation win more than those who worry about the other nonsense".

 

[shanker]

My problem is with the dad to be honest. He wants to "file a protest".

That is the very worst lesson for a tennis kid. Her mental game certainly won't get better if he reacts this way. Had she been hooked and had points stolen from her, by all means teach her to stick up for herself.

But a change of court, even if not the right thing for the adults to do, can not be reacted to like this by the parent. The message he is sending is all wrong. She will eventually see every trick in tennis. Opponents faking injury for time when losing. Fans trying to distract her. Other girls watching her warm up and saying to their friends, "her butt looks big when she serves". (thats an old trick among the younger girls, many times it gets the opponent thinking about her appearance and not her serving).

If he wants her to go anywhere at all in the tennis game, his reaction can only be to listen and when she calms down say, "honey, you need to focus on the things you can control. You could only control how YOU reacted after the move. You could only focus on playing your best despite the court change. Life is not always fair. But the players who worry only about their effort and preparation win more than those who worry about the other nonsense".

I agree with most of what you say. It is however hard for you to stomach this type of thing when it goes on. Perhaps filing a protest is a bit extreme but I just hate to see this happen to any kid. My only hope is that after I speak to her coach about it he will become more aware of what's going on before during and after matches.
JV tennis is definitely not the time for a hands off approach.
On a more positive note, her mom and I took her out today to hit and simulate all types of crap she may encounter in the future. I even had my younger daughter throw balls at her when she was playing to try and rattle her cage, call shots that were obviously out in, argue points, rules, etc.
I will take a proactive approach to her improvement.

 

[shanker]

Thanks to everyone for all the good responses. I have learned a lot from all this and will be more aware in future tournaments.

Thanks again,
Greg

 

[SteveI]

My problem is with the dad to be honest. He wants to "file a protest".

That is the very worst lesson for a tennis kid. Her mental game certainly won't get better if he reacts this way. Had she been hooked and had points stolen from her, by all means teach her to stick up for herself.

But a change of court, even if not the right thing for the adults to do, can not be reacted to like this by the parent. The message he is sending is all wrong. She will eventually see every trick in tennis. Opponents faking injury for time when losing. Fans trying to distract her. Other girls watching her warm up and saying to their friends, "her butt looks big when she serves". (thats an old trick among the younger girls, many times it gets the opponent thinking about her appearance and not her serving).

If he wants her to go anywhere at all in the tennis game, his reaction can only be to listen and when she calms down say, "honey, you need to focus on the things you can control. You could only control how YOU reacted after the move. You could only focus on playing your best despite the court change. Life is not always fair. But the players who worry only about their effort and preparation win more than those who worry about the other nonsense".

Again.. I agree with most of what you have posted..but ..You think the coach was doing his job??? My daughter plays varisty HS tennis and I don't want this guy for her coach. Plain and Simple.. guy dropped the Ball ...End O Story

 

[azbabolat]

Hi Greg,


I have been playing High school tennis for three years now and I have never changed courts during a match. I dont think It would of altered my match unless the court she moved to was worse. You should of talked with the coach and ask why they moved the girls. Also, JV is not looked upon as important as varsity so the conditions change. If it was a varsity match I would talk to the coach because your win actually counts for the overall team score.

 

[tray999]

As a High School Varsity Coach, TennisCoachFLA response was spot on!

 

[SteveI]

As a High School Varsity Coach, TennisCoachFLA response was spot on!

Do you coach girls? You think the coach did a perfect job with this teaching moment? By leaving his player hanging.. he was doing no coaching... or less than none. There is much more to coaching than hoping your players will "man up".. and deal with all that is thrown at them. This coach did nothing and was not even in the area when the court move was made. Nice work,,

 

[tray999]

SteveI,

I was refering to what poster TennisCoachFLA stated:

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA
"My problem is with the dad to be honest. He wants to "file a protest".

That is the very worst lesson for a tennis kid. Her mental game certainly won't get better if he reacts this way. Had she been hooked and had points stolen from her, by all means teach her to stick up for herself.

But a change of court, even if not the right thing for the adults to do, can not be reacted to like this by the parent. The message he is sending is all wrong. She will eventually see every trick in tennis. Opponents faking injury for time when losing. Fans trying to distract her. Other girls watching her warm up and saying to their friends, "her butt looks big when she serves". (thats an old trick among the younger girls, many times it gets the opponent thinking about her appearance and not her serving).

If he wants her to go anywhere at all in the tennis game, his reaction can only be to listen and when she calms down say, "honey, you need to focus on the things you can control. You could only control how YOU reacted after the move. You could only focus on playing your best despite the court change. Life is not always fair. But the players who worry only about their effort and preparation win more than those who worry about the other nonsense."

Not what the what the girls coach did. And yes, I do coach the girls.

 

[retlod]

The court is the same dimensions. The surface is the same substance. The net is the same height. The wind is blowing the same direction. The sun is casting the same shadows. The opponent is the same person. There was no advantage for either player. No pros protest rain delays or match suspensions due to darkness. Filing a protest will teach the girl three things:

1. When you lose, search for someone or something external to blame it on.
2. Only call something unfair when it's not fair to you.
3. Winning is more important than learning and having fun.

If that's what you want your daughter to take from this incident, file your protest.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Do you coach girls? You think the coach did a perfect job with this teaching moment? By leaving his player hanging.. he was doing no coaching... or less than none. There is much more to coaching than hoping your players will "man up".. and deal with all that is thrown at them. This coach did nothing and was not even in the area when the court move was made. Nice work,,

Yes Steve, the coach did the right thing. 100% the right think. There was no real advantage gained by either player. This was a teaching moment that the girl should focus on one thing, her own play.

The coach was a guest at the venue and the organizers asked the kids to change courts. Her coach making a big protest? Why? For what? To what end?

In fact her coach making a big stink would have given her a great excuse to lose either way, even if his protest had worked. Will he be able to protest her opponent hooking her in the USTAs? Or her opponent getting 3 lucky net cords in a row. Or the many other distractions she will face? No.

That one instance of her coach "manning up" may have had a small effect of her not changing courts. So what? So he could be her hero...is that what you need from your girls? Him letting her deal with it would help the next 1000000 times she faces challenges in her tennis career.

Girls NEED to be empowered at every opportunity. Both her dad and coach should have been all over this moment after the match as making sure the next time she kept her focus. That would be "manning up" instead of looking to come to her rescue when she really needed to handle her business much better.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

The court is the same dimensions. The surface is the same substance. The net is the same height. The wind is blowing the same direction. The sun is casting the same shadows. The opponent is the same person. There was no advantage for either player. No pros protest rain delays or match suspensions due to darkness. Filing a protest will teach the girl three things:

1. When you lose, search for someone or something external to blame it on.
2. Only call something unfair when it's not fair to you.
3. Winning is more important than learning and having fun.

If that's what you want your daughter to take from this incident, file your protest.

100% correct.

What we have here is the male hero complex....I have seen it many times from tennis dads and male coaches like Steve.

They think they are helping the girls by over coaching or over protecting. But this is not opening the door for a lady, its hampering the girl's empowerment.

To be frank....its makes it more about their need to be 'the man' than it does the girls. Their so called helping is just trying to stroke their own egos.

I have seen Rick Macci and Nick Saviano use this let them tough it out approach and produce multiple champions on every level who go on to be very successful after tennis.