as a shade tree plumber/tennis player, i am well qualified to give you tips on what not to do...
Higher level coaches: how much of the TTW advanced mechanics stuff do you use?
- Thread starter dominikk1985
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ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
You just don’t listen. I don’t know what the people you paid told you, but there is one deficiency that you refuse to address that would go a long way to fixing your 1hbh. It’s been mentioned many times here. You should change your handle to Curious But Stubborn
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
You get any number of certifications and someone to pay you, and boom, you are a professional.
Then you can get to work and start becoming good at it.
J
speaking for myself, sometimes the student sucks at learning the way a particular coach is teach/describing things..
for my serve for example i had to get a handful of lessons from various coaches to get it to where it is now (imo much better than it was).
looking back, all of them were saying the right thing (different ways, pointing out different parts, etc...), but i was too dense to understand it...
kinda reminds me of the parable of 3 blind men describing an elephant... (one described the tail, one described the belly, on described the trunk)
badmice2
Professional
That’s not learning, that’s self taught.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
If I was a coach I wouldn’t be able to sleep if my student sucked at learning! I really don’t think coaches care about adult students’ improvement. Juniors is a different story. There’s also the parents and clear expectations for measurable improvement there.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Any tennis player who is also an enthusiast of technique whether a 3.0 or a 6.0 can be a technique expert in 3 months in this day and age with thousands of high quality tennis tutorials readily available online. That’s why everyone here easily points out all flaws of a stroke when someone posts a video of them and asks for tips. But knowing, doing and teaching are all different things.
badmice2
Professional
If I was your coach I will tell you to find a coach who’s willing to tell you what you want to hear.
The only difference between you and juniors comes down to 1 simple thing…you judge the advise that a coach will give you, and you question their intelligence.
A junior takes it for information, no judgement, process it, and try doing it without fear.
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badmice2
Professional
This is the BS that makes your self taught approach a problem. You don’t know what to process and filter.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Looks like a legit good coach at a quick glance of his website, and I guess he is the 3.5 guy on USTA with his name , but how does that situation mesh with this blurb on his website?
"Because I still compete nationally, I have empathy for how it feels to experience the pressure of match play. I understand not be able to execute skills you know you have when you want them, how to rejoice in winning but rebound and learn from my losses.
I have been a gold medal winner in the World Senior Games, the Bay Area Senior Games and a silver medalist in the Nike World Senior Games. My ranking for the teaching pros has been in the top 5 since my 30's in either the USPTA or PTR with national championships in both singles and doubles."
i don't think this is true, sure anyone can watch videos but it's knowing what actually works for someone's individual situation. you say everyone easily points out flaws but the skill is honing in what the 1, 2 or maybe 3 most important tips that someone should focus on. Someone posts a video of them serving and they get 50 tips, how can they know which of those would be most helpful. More advanced players will be able to do this decently but lower level players a lot of times won't know where to begin.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Easy. Every stroke has a few fundamentals. The rest is trivia and empty talk.
ok humor me, what are the few fundamentals of serving?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
A correct throwing motion. Nothing else.
not sure if you're trolling me now but ok so why do people who have a perfect throwing motion have trouble serving? And what about a kick serve?
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i finally can do this (not consistently)!
J
biggest tip from you was "hit it like a kick serve but on the right side of the ball"
it took a looong time to understand and feel what that means...
Curious
G.O.A.T.
A correct throwing motion in the serve is what I meant. Kick, slice, flat just need a few variations on the throwing path.
juniors are paying for lessons daily...
adults, like once a week or month..
folks i teach, i ask them, "did you do <progression i gave you"... usually the answer is "no"
i think most coaches do care about student improvement, but in the end, the student has to do the reps to ingrain movements into their muscle memory... coach can't do that for you...
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Of the 15 coaches I had lessons from in the last 10 years not a single one talked to me about the importance of off court training, conditioning the body for tennis.
but did you share clear defined goals, like competing in nationals for your age group, what do you have to do?
don't really need to off court training to knock around at the public parks...
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I said to all of them: I want to get better at singles tennis. And they all focused on stroke technique and footwork but none mentioned that I couldn’t do it with my current fitness and strength level.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Uh, how’d the stroke technique and the footwork work out?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
You know how it did. The only way to improve is to become a better athlete.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
No. You need to come to the S.F. Bay Area and let me fix your strokes. Cost a lot less than you’ve already paid in lessons to fly here and I guarantee my work.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Let’s do a zoom lesson and post it here so that no one misses your expertise. What do you think?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Sounds like you are poking fun. I’d prefer to let you wallow in suckiness for another decade. Ask yourself why you have done everything pros on YouTube tell you to do and have gotten nowhere.Let’s do a zoom lesson and post it here so that no one misses your expertise. What do you think?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I knew you’d chicken out.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Chicken out? What is this 3rd grade? I offered to show you in person. Over Zoom is creating the possibility of misinterpreting.
Also, my offer was put out to anyone a couple weeks ago.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
You’ll see what I’m doing and I’ll see what you’re doing. How can you misinterpret?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Through video?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Of course.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
I will just say, I personally enjoy TTW discussions because it is a decent mix of actual experienced and professional folks who know instruction, as well as other rec players who I can sympathize with and find tips that has helped them. Guess that is why it is called TENNIS TIPS/INSTRUCTION. Weird. I won't try to fully devalue anyone on either side of that equation, though challenging presumptions and opinions...hell, that is what forums should be about. I've been lucky enough to meet and play with dozens of folks from here and through other tennis Internet connections, and even with those I have had less-than-cordial exchanges with, and oddly when meeting in person they are still good folks.
Now, as far as mechanics, I learned early on that the majority of nuance things focused on are meaningless in rec tennis, though I do enjoy some level of looking at them. My favorite is the absolute, regimented kinetic chain, which while it is fully vetted and an optimal process of events in whatever mechanics are being discussed, is rarely a fix for the issues players want help with. Used to use this often...
I had a great role model and mentor here in AZ that helped me early on focus on what I now clearly see as cornerstones of rec improvement, which are more macro adjustments and issues of that nuance stuff. A perfect example is the 2 minute tennis guy, who was present a great tip on serve plus one strategy (a macro adjustment), but ended up distracting things to me by talking about top college level players and talking millisecond adjustments for split steps and when a hand comes off a racquet. Kind of a parallel to how TTW goes often. We miss the forest through the trees.
Anywhooo...as far as mechanics, I remember talking with that model/mentor coach when I noticed a few of his college players having "off" technique - one an extreme western grip (I was wondering about added stress on the wrist and arm) and another with a weird, elbow in stroke (wondering if they would improve with more extension, or would it be wroth even addressing). The reality was, these were D1 college level men and women, who already hit major tick-points of their respective strokes to reach D1 college level play. And no, it wasn't something that needed to be address because there are multiple ways to get to more important tick-points of hitting a solid, consistent ball. I was watching a few vids on Youtube, as we all like to do, and just in the last few days found these two examples of how rec tennis doesn't care about mechanics as much as the fuss put into it.
This first, the guy is a UTR 6 playing a UTR 8. Foregone conclusion an 8 will kill a 6? Especially given the mechanics of the 6? Listen to the 8's discussion of it at the onset, talking about not under-estimating based on strokes (basically). And this kinda vid could make a huge TTW thread on mechanics, eh?
Or talking about "hitches" in strokes for this 5.0 player?
I remember posting this in another mechanics, using legs and not "arming" the ball"....
Anyway, again I am not saying it isn't good to talk about it and understand it. Quite the contrary, all those points can make differences and are good to know. And interesting to see how anyone might make use of it. And this is a good spot to do it, or as good as any.
Happy Saturday. Heading to the ball machine to work on getting my split step between .20 and .25 seconds.
Now, as far as mechanics, I learned early on that the majority of nuance things focused on are meaningless in rec tennis, though I do enjoy some level of looking at them. My favorite is the absolute, regimented kinetic chain, which while it is fully vetted and an optimal process of events in whatever mechanics are being discussed, is rarely a fix for the issues players want help with. Used to use this often...
I had a great role model and mentor here in AZ that helped me early on focus on what I now clearly see as cornerstones of rec improvement, which are more macro adjustments and issues of that nuance stuff. A perfect example is the 2 minute tennis guy, who was present a great tip on serve plus one strategy (a macro adjustment), but ended up distracting things to me by talking about top college level players and talking millisecond adjustments for split steps and when a hand comes off a racquet. Kind of a parallel to how TTW goes often. We miss the forest through the trees.
Anywhooo...as far as mechanics, I remember talking with that model/mentor coach when I noticed a few of his college players having "off" technique - one an extreme western grip (I was wondering about added stress on the wrist and arm) and another with a weird, elbow in stroke (wondering if they would improve with more extension, or would it be wroth even addressing). The reality was, these were D1 college level men and women, who already hit major tick-points of their respective strokes to reach D1 college level play. And no, it wasn't something that needed to be address because there are multiple ways to get to more important tick-points of hitting a solid, consistent ball. I was watching a few vids on Youtube, as we all like to do, and just in the last few days found these two examples of how rec tennis doesn't care about mechanics as much as the fuss put into it.
This first, the guy is a UTR 6 playing a UTR 8. Foregone conclusion an 8 will kill a 6? Especially given the mechanics of the 6? Listen to the 8's discussion of it at the onset, talking about not under-estimating based on strokes (basically). And this kinda vid could make a huge TTW thread on mechanics, eh?
Or talking about "hitches" in strokes for this 5.0 player?
I remember posting this in another mechanics, using legs and not "arming" the ball"....
Anyway, again I am not saying it isn't good to talk about it and understand it. Quite the contrary, all those points can make differences and are good to know. And interesting to see how anyone might make use of it. And this is a good spot to do it, or as good as any.
Happy Saturday. Heading to the ball machine to work on getting my split step between .20 and .25 seconds.
that's kinda vague.
they probably prioritized in their mind, what they thought you need to work on first
fitness&strength is useless if your technique and footwork is not good.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Technique&footwork is not easy to execute if your strength and fitness is not good.
badmice2
Professional
This statement alone shows why you don’t understand how to teach or give advise.
when learning you don't need strength & fitness, just learn the patterns...
but yeah, if you can't split & move, on every shot, at minimum, then you'll need to do more jump roping/etc...
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I don’t know. I don’t think teaching technique to an adult student should take more than a year or two. I can’t help but imagine how good a Bruce Lee version of my 57 year old body could be on the tennis court. And I’m extremely motivated to make this happen.
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