Higher peak level in slams: Medvedev vs Ferrer

Who has the higher peak per slam?

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AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
AO

Ferrer:
Lost 2011 SF to prime Murray 4-6 7-6(2) 6-1 7-6(2)
Lost 2012 QF to prime Djokovic 6-4 7-6(4) 6-1

Medvedev:
Lost 2021 F to Oldovic 7-5 6-2 6-2
Lost 2022 F to Grandpal 2-6 6-7(5) 6-4 6-4 7-5

RG

Ferrer:
lost 2012 SF to prime/peak Nadal 6-2 6-2 6-1
lost 2013 F to prime Nadal 6-3 6-2 6-3
lost 2014 QF to prime Nadal 4-6 6-4 6-0 6-1

Medvedev:
lost 2021 QF to prime Tsitsipas 6-3 7-6(3) 7-5

WB

Ferrer:
lost 2012 QF to prime Murray 6-7(5) 7-6(6) 6-4 7-6(4)

Medvedev:
lost 2021 4R to "prime Hurkacz" 3-6 7-6(2) 2-6 6-3 6-3

USO

Ferrer:
lost 2012 SF to prime Djokovic 2-6 6-1 6-4 6-2

Medvedev:
lost 2019 F to Oldal 7-5 6-3 5-7 4-6 6-4
won 2021 over frazzled Oldovic 6-4 6-4 6-4

What it tells us?
 
It would be a fun match-up. Medvedev's serve vs Ferrer's return. Wall mode vs roadrunner mode.

Ferrer said he was lucky to play in the big3 era, because they didn't stop him from winning more, thry made him better.
Maybe they would've push Medvedev more too.

On grass and clay, Ferrer wins. On hard, I say Medvedev.
 
Oh look, another day, another member of the Fed brethren crying about AO22...

I wonder why not so much crying about Cilic at AO18 who was significantly worse...
 
Ferrer slightly. Hard hard worker. A machine. I think he would have already amassed 2 slams in this era. He wasn't a big dude but that dude had a crazy engine. Reincarnation of chang
 
Backspin1183 said:
Medvedev is the world #1 and a Grand Slam winner. Ferrer was a fighter but nowhere close to Medvedev.
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The main point for the argument is that Ferrer played in the strongest era and I'd say most here will agree with me that in those years Medvedev wouldn't be #1.

What slam could he win? AO 2009? Nope. 2011, 2012? Also no. USO 2010, 2013? He can't beat that player ten years older, wasn't gonna do it then. Could he beat peak Fed? Not a chance. Stanimal? Doubt it.
He's a slam winner, but put him back in that era and tell me which one does he have chances to win. If none, he'd be like Ferrer at best, consistent but with a not high enough ceiling.
 
I don't know, just because Djokovic and Nadal were 23-25 years old in 10, 11, 12, it doesn't mean they were in their prime. It depends on form and many other things, but mainly on form.

For example, to me, prime Djokovic was 2011, 2015/16 untill RG 16 and 2021. About 2021, no matter how "weak" the field is, it takes hell of a playing to be 27/28 in Grand Slams through the year, winning 27 matches in a row.

So "prime" Ferrer, Murray, Tsitspas, Medvedev... It depends.

But Medvedev is certainly better than Ferrer. 3-1 for Daniil, Ferrer wins the RG clash obviously.
 
Backspin1183 said:
Medvedev is the world #1 and a Grand Slam winner. Ferrer was a fighter but nowhere close to Medvedev.
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The mods should sticky this thread. Make it a shrine for people who dont have a clue about tennis to talk about how "disapoint" they are with nextgen, weakera etc etc. That would leave the other threads available for the adults.
 
Ferrer is way stronger at Roland Garros, no questions asked. I think Medvedev is clearly stronger at the US Open. The other two are closer. Both poor at Wimbledon but probably Medvedev worse, though that could change. He doesn’t have to do much for it to do so. I give him the edge in Australia but maybe it’s a tie.
 
I don't rate Med that high, but I rate Ferrer even lower than that. He wouldn't have been able to do what Med did at 2021 USO.
 
All this Slam-by-Slam hairsplitting is moot. Ferru ain't winning a major in any era while Med likely grabs a HC Slam or two. Being better rounded doesn't mean a thing if you can't go all the way at the biggies.

mike danny said:
I don't rate Med that high, but I rate Ferrer even lower than that. He wouldn't have been able to do what Med did at 2021 USO.
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Exactly. Dave is one of the very best returners, but Med is arguably as good and he's got the decisive advantage in that serve.
 
NonP said:
All this Slam-by-Slam hairsplitting is moot. Ferru ain't winning a major in any era while Med likely grabs a HC Slam or two. Being better rounded doesn't mean a thing if you can't go all the way at the biggies.



Exactly. Dave is one of the very best returners, but Med is arguably as good and he's got the decisive advantage in that serve.
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You still struggle to realise the unique mugness of these times, it seems. No numbers can even be compared truthfully to earlier times since inflation reaches ridiculous proportions.
 
mike danny said:
I don't rate Med that high, but I rate Ferrer even lower than that. He wouldn't have been able to do what Med did at 2021 USO.
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You sure? It was a soft draw that peak Ferrer would get through to the final with little trouble just as well. The only question is whether he'd have the balls to keep it up vs Djovak. Not much to go on but the way he confidently beat a mildly injured Nadal at 2011 AO is inspiring. Between Nadal's physical injury and Djokovic's mental injury + physical tiredness, Djokovic was little better it seems.
 
I'll never understand why these questions are even asked when self proclaimed intellectuals have their opinion about gatekeeper players from a decade ago being better than the best today set in stone and will never change their mind, despite one of these guys being retired while the other one just started. Not to mention Ferrer isn't sniffing a Slam today or ever.
 
Op is losing the plot...

The amount of disrespect to a player who just reached world #1 ... no wonder there's so much hatred... he couldn't stop Nadal from winning the AO..

Nadal won more slams than Federer. Sleep tight princess...
 
TheAssassin said:
I'll never understand why these questions are even asked when self proclaimed intellectuals have their opinion about gatekeeper players from a decade ago being better than the best today set in stone and will never change their mind, despite one of these guys being retired while the other one just started. Not to mention Ferrer isn't sniffing a Slam today or ever.
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Analysis much?

Muglad technically has time to improve but he's already #1 so it's a pertinent question.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
4:25
9:45
10:45
12:20
Wow, was peak Ferrer a majestic beast in comparison to what we get now... LOL.
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I mean, I think med’s serve and general court coverage probably make him a bigger threat on HC. At the USO, clearly Medvedev.

but then I watch that and.. even with injury, is ‘11 Nadal moving better than ‘22 Nadal did? And why is Ferrer having no issue moving forward and putting points away with his FH and volleying? And where was all of this in the ‘22 or ‘21 finals from Medvedev? Or when he went down to very old and slow Wawrinka in ‘20?
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
You still struggle to realise the unique mugness of these times, it seems. No numbers can even be compared truthfully to earlier times since inflation reaches ridiculous proportions.
Click to expand...

LOL, I fully understand/acknowledge this is by far the muggest field of men in modern times, if not ever. Still don't think Ferru can rampage thru a joke draw like Med at any HC major (your own #s, as you may recall). The closest equivalent would be Dave's run at '13 RG, but Bull in his arguably weakest championship form (barring '06) showed why we shouldn't put too much stock in that GW%. Ferrer doesn't have a Rocket's power or a Rios/Costa's creativity to make up for that lack of size.

AnOctorokForDinner said:
You sure? It was a soft draw that peak Ferrer would get through to the final with little trouble just as well. The only question is whether he'd have the balls to keep it up vs Djovak. Not much to go on but the way he confidently beat a mildly injured Nadal at 2011 AO is inspiring. Between Nadal's physical injury and Djokovic's mental injury + physical tiredness, Djokovic was little better it seems.
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Dave yields to almost no one when it comes to perseverance. It's in his decision-making or lack thereof that he falters. He doesn't have much of a plan B to fall back on when things ain't going his way.
 
Kralingen said:
I mean, I think med’s serve and general court coverage probably make him a bigger threat on HC. At the USO, clearly Medvedev.

but then I watch that and.. even with injury, is ‘11 Nadal moving better than ‘22 Nadal did? And why is Ferrer having no issue moving forward and putting points away with his FH and volleying? And where was all of this in the ‘22 or ‘21 finals from Medvedev? Or when he went down to very old and slow Wawrinka in ‘20?
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I hardly think Medvedev has a better court coverage than Ferrer, the guy was quite the runner. The serve is the one area where the tallbot's advantage is easily obvious.
These highlights alone definitely show Ferrer to be a more successfully attacking player than Medvedev could ever be.
 
The_Order said:
Op is losing the plot...

The amount of disrespect to a player who just reached world #1 ... no wonder there's so much hatred... he couldn't stop Nadal from winning the AO..

Nadal won more slams than Federer. Sleep tight princess...
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The exact same threads were repeatedly being made this time last year after Djokovic beat Medvedev.
TTW is nothing if not predictable.
 
NonP said:
LOL, I fully understand/acknowledge this is by far the muggest field of men in modern times, if not ever. Still don't think Ferru can rampage thru a joke draw like Med at any HC major (your own #s, as you may recall). The closest equivalent would be Dave's run at '13 RG, but Bull in his arguably weakest championship form (barring '06) showed why we shouldn't put too much stock in that GW%. Ferrer doesn't have a Rocket's power or a Rios/Costa's creativity to make up for that lack of size.
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Ferrer clearly melted in the '13 final since he lacked belief badly. Sad but totally understandable, it was indeed impossible for him to win since Nadal had powered into a better form than Ferrer could possibly match even with his best tennis. I reckon that wouldn't happen against someone he knew was in beatable form. Not dissimilar to RG 08 if you will; no way Federer doesn't play at least decently against anyone else (basically, Djokovic).

Dave yields to almost no one when it comes to perseverance. It's his decision-making or lack thereof where he falters. He doesn't have much of a plan B to fall back on when things ain't going his way.
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But would things ever not go his way with a draw like 2021 USO? They didn't for Medvedev, heh. I do think Medvedev has shown to be better at the USO, but what if we imagine such a draw for peak Ferrer at 2011/12 AO? Seems doable for the persistent man.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
I hardly think Medvedev has a better court coverage than Ferrer, the guy was quite the runner. The serve is the one area where the tallbot's advantage is easily obvious.
These highlights alone definitely show Ferrer to be a more successfully attacking player than Medvedev could ever be.
Click to expand...
Lol in all seriousness I would like everyone to watch that AO ‘11 QF video. It will challenge what you think you know about Ferrer, Nadal, and Medvedev. Changed my mind for sure. Masterclass from Daveed.
 
Kralingen said:
Lol in all seriousness I would like everyone to watch that AO ‘11 QF video. It will challenge what you think you know about Ferrer, Nadal, and Medvedev. Changed my mind for sure. Masterclass from Daveed.
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It's quite sad that bringing up a video involving some busted up Nadal is actually a very valid argument against the #1 in the world today.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
2011 AO QF Ferrer beats 2022 AO QF Nadal in straights or what, do you think?
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11 Nadal lacked the will and physical strength to keep fighting much in the third set but not like 22 Nadal fighting is going to make any difference. He's not going to outgrind Ferrer like he did Medvedev. So yeah pretty easy to see Ferrer finishing the job there.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
I hardly think Medvedev has a better court coverage than Ferrer, the guy was quite the runner. The serve is the one area where the tallbot's advantage is easily obvious.
These highlights alone definitely show Ferrer to be a more successfully attacking player than Medvedev could ever be.
Click to expand...

Med does have the bigger reach, though. Court coverage is about equal, but in terms of top potential wall-ness Med prolly gets the nod.

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Ferrer clearly melted in the '13 final since he lacked belief badly. Sad but totally understandable, it was indeed impossible for him to win since Nadal had powered into a better form than Ferrer could possibly match even with his best tennis. I reckon that wouldn't happen against someone he knew was in beatable form. Not dissimilar to RG 08 if you will; no way Federer doesn't play at least decently against anyone else (basically, Djokovic).
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Fraud was averaging a good 61.4% (124/202) before the F so he'd definitely do better vs. Novak (pre-SF 62.7% or 99/158). But I still remember Fred committing a rather alarming # of UFEs at that FO, so Nole prolly takes it in 4-5 should they meet in the F.

Ferru's (CC-)seasonal GW%s were quite good, in fact better than anyone's but Bull's and Novak's. But then so were (pre-yips) Coria's. Size/firepower is indeed a necessary ingredient unless you've got a world-class weapon or two to make up for it.

But would things ever not go his way with a draw like 2021 USO? They didn't for Medvedev, heh. I do think Medvedev has shown to be better at the USO, but what if we imagine such a draw for peak Ferrer at 2011/12 AO? Seems doable for the persistent man.
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I don't rule out a ToJo-esque run entirely. I just find it rather unlikely for Ferru. Replace Med with prime Dave and he'd still have to deal with Djoker and now revived-Bull. Not so easy to squeak in that one Slam.
 
NonP said:
Med does have the bigger reach, though. Court coverage is about equal, but in terms of top potential wall-ness Med prolly gets the nod.
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Ferrer has better footwork so the quality of his shots including defensive shots is better?

Fraud was averaging a good 61.4% (124/202) before the F so he'd definitely do better vs. Novak (pre-SF 62.7% or 99/158). But I still remember Fred committing a rather alarming # of UFEs at that FO, so Nole prolly takes it in 4-5 should they meet in the F.
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Djokovic is certainly favoured. Federer has a sizeable chance though (whereas if he played like he did vs Nadal he'd have no chance against a great many players, lawl).

Ferru's (CC-)seasonal GW%s were quite good, in fact better than anyone's but Bull's and Novak's. But then so were (pre-yips) Coria's. Size/firepower is indeed a necessary ingredient unless you've got a world-class weapon or two to make up for it.
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Doesn't seem to be true anymore. If you say Ferrer has no "world-class" weapons, then Medvedev's only "world-class" weapon is his 1st serve (2nd serve only when he goes for two firsts) and that's when it's firing well, placement and percentage. That wasn't quite the case after the first set in either of the last two slam finals yet Medvedev's tennis was still enough to beat frazzled Oldovic and almost enough to beat Oldal, if only he was a little more persistent.


I don't rule out a ToJo-esque run entirely. I just find it rather unlikely for Ferru. Replace Med with prime Dave and he'd still have to deal with Djoker and now revived-Bull. Not so easy to squeak in that one Slam.
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You have to seriously wonder if the level on display is just so feeble that second-tier players of ten years ago would be beating them consistently (at least not individually but collectively).
 
Ferrer at least has beat a young Nadal in slams multiple times. Medvedev can’t even beat a Nadal who has to get up three times a night to take a ****.
 
Kralingen said:
Lol in all seriousness I would like everyone to watch that AO ‘11 QF video. It will challenge what you think you know about Ferrer, Nadal, and Medvedev. Changed my mind for sure. Masterclass from Daveed.
Click to expand...

2010 US Open vs Verdasco is another piece of pure entertainment from the Ferrer archives.

Medvedev is a better player but Ferrer is so underrated on TTW.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Ferrer has better footwork so the quality of his shots including defensive shots is better?
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Hence my term "wall-ness." Overall they're more or less equal in coverage.

Djokovic is certainly favoured. Federer has a sizeable chance though (whereas if he played like he did vs Nadal he'd have no chance against a great many players, lawl).
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No disagreement here.

Doesn't seem to be true anymore. If you say Ferrer has no "world-class" weapons, then Medvedev's only "world-class" weapon is his 1st serve (2nd serve only when he goes for two firsts) and that's when it's firing well, placement and percentage. That wasn't quite the case after the first set in either of the last two slam finals yet Medvedev's tennis was still enough to beat frazzled Oldovic and almost enough to beat Oldal, if only he was a little more persistent.
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I've long maintained Ferru is a more dangerous HCer than a dirtballer thx to his return, so I don't deny that his weapon is "world-class." But it's a largely defensive one, and as Muzz well knows you can't win a major mainly as a human backboard.

Med's serve may well be his only advantage but it's indeed a big one. I'd also add his uncanny anticipation, which I say offsets Dave's superior transition game which he doesn't use all that much to begin with.

You have to seriously wonder if the level on display is just so feeble that second-tier players of ten years ago would be beating them consistently (at least not individually but collectively).
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Much as I dis the NextMugs I still don't think winning a major today is that easy. Tsits is coming on strong and Alex is prolly one fix or two away from his own breakthrough. Throw in perhaps Thiem's 2nd wind and we may look back on this AO as an afterthought.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Analysis much?

Muglad technically has time to improve but he's already #1 so it's a pertinent question.
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Indeed, he's already number 1. And in less than three years worth of prime tennis he's won a Slam in VERY dominant fashion, narrowly missing out on another two, while Ferrer was getting regularly stomped in second weeks. So much for anything in this thread being pertinent. But I guess some fancy 10 minute highlight video overrules everything else.

From mocking and ganging up on Lew for all those "Adjustments for difficulty" to making it their own favorite pastime and selling it as gospel preach. Tennis intellectuals, ladies and gentlemen. (y)
 
NonP said:
Tsits is coming on strong and Alex is prolly one fix or two away from his own breakthrough. Throw in perhaps Thiem's 2nd wind and we may look back on this AO as an afterthought.
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Wake me up when Tsitsipas gets a return of serve. Otherwise certainly a very promising player, but you can't win when you have so important a shot completely missing from your repertoire.

Alex is surely not De MUGaur?
 
NonP said:
Hence my term "wall-ness." Overall they're more or less equal in coverage.
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In terms of just getting the ball, but Ferrer can do more with it.


I've long maintained Ferru is a more dangerous HCer than a dirtballer thx to his return, so I don't deny that his weapon is "world-class." But it's a largely defensive one, and as Muzz well knows you can't win a major mainly as a human backboard.
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Bringing up Murray is rather a counter-argument. Put 2011 (!) Murray in this year's field and he contends for all four slams and wins 2-3 of them I think. The level he'd be up against is no comparison to what he was up against in 2011...

Med's serve may well be his only advantage but it's indeed a big one.
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A big one would be Roddick's. This isn't close, huehue.

I'd also add his uncanny anticipation, which I say offsets Dave's superior transition game which he doesn't use all that much to begin with.
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Sounds like a pretty mythical argument.


Much as I dis the NextMugs I still don't think winning a major today is that easy. Tsits is coming on strong and Alex is prolly one fix or two away from his own breakthrough. Throw in perhaps Thiem's 2nd wind and we may look back on this AO as an afterthought.
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Easier than since the Wimbledon boycott excepting a few specific slams from 1998-2002.
NextGens can only win by default when the grandpas don't play or are so out of form they just can't execute at all. Thiem is done btw.
 
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