Higher USO peak?

Higher USO peak?


  • Total voters
    58

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
2011 Federer took Djokovic to 2 match points. 2004 Federer was faster and hit much better forehands than 2011erer. A big argument among Fed fans is that 2011 Djokovic is super overrated because non-prime Fed took him to match points. This is a fallacy, because the 2011 US Open semifinal was a very high quality match from Federer.

But all things considered, 2004 Federer probably wins in 4 tight sets.
 

TheNachoMan

Hall of Fame
They did indeed

post prime spraying 2011 Fed with 2-0 and double MP against peak Djokovic

peak fearhand 06 Fed with peak defence, movement powerful serve etc in straight sets, or 4 if his concentration dips for a set.
Fed was only 29 in 2011. People who use his age as an excuse then but ignore what Djokodal are doing now confuse me.
 

Apollo17

Semi-Pro
Djokovic peaked this USO on the lineswoman's throat. Peak Federer, I'm afraid, is yet to achieve such feat.
 

Bamoos

Semi-Pro
Fed was only 29 in 2011. People who use his age as an excuse then but ignore what Djokodal are doing now confuse me.
Fed’s game has the highest peak ever so his exceptional level can drop off more easily than pushers and moonballers who always play the same style.
 

NonP

Hall of Fame
Take it from this Djokofan: Fed wins this matchup pretty handily. Like I said in an earlier thread I honest can't think of a single USO match where I felt Novak could've beaten anyone in history. The defensive masterclass vs. Delpo may deserve an honorary mention, but on HC great O beats great D most of the time.

Pistol is better than both, though. :cool:
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
2011 Federer took Djokovic to 2 match points. 2004 Federer was faster and hit much better forehands than 2011erer. A big argument among Fed fans is that 2011 Djokovic is super overrated because non-prime Fed took him to match points. This is a fallacy, because the 2011 US Open semifinal was a very high quality match from Federer.

But all things considered, 2004 Federer probably wins in 4 tight sets.
Didn’t old Agassi take 2004 Fed to 5 sets in SF? Everyone just thinks about Hewitt match.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Yes, he did. I´m talking about Federer in his final form.
But that’s the problem with all these arguments about “level”. We act as if level is some unchanging Platonic ideal. In fact, level rises and drops throughout many tournaments and matches, so all these arguments about Fed 2006 vs Djokovic 2011 are based on what exactly?
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Number of times David Foster Wallace simped over Federer as a religious experience = 1
Number of times David Foster Wallace simped over Djokovic as a religious experience = 0*

Federer wins

*The fact that David Foster Wallace died in 2008 is irrelevant
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
They did indeed

post prime spraying 2011 Fed with 2-0 and double MP against peak Djokovic

peak fearhand 06 Fed with peak defence, movement powerful serve etc in straight sets, or 4 if his concentration dips for a set.
yes in 2010 a geriatric Federer was so much crippled by old age that it had made it an uneven contest.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
This poll is beautiful.

Going more in-depth, I'd rate their winning forms probably like this:

Fed 2004
Fed 2006
Fed 2005
Djoker 2011
Fed 2007 / Djoker 2015
Fed 2008
Djoker 2018

Djoker 2011 could be higher but I'm not the biggest fan of his serve in the final, truth be told. Partly the same deal with Fed 2005 for the backhand, but his forehand that tournament might very well have been the best it's ever been, rivalled only by his other two best USO runs and a handful of other tournaments.

Fed 2004 had the Agassi match which is a decent criticism, but the conditions that match were some of the worst I've ever seen in a professional match. USO 2012 has nothing on that. It's a shame because we might have been robbed of a much higher-quality match that would have counted as a very strong win for Fed there. But still, it was a nice enough match. And obviously the final was one of the best matches he's ever played, period.

2006 was basically your run of the mill peak Fedr Slam tournament. Not much to write home about other than that he was still really good.

Fed 2007 was quite a patchy run for peak Fed standards. He played a really good match in the QF against Roddick (which was a very stunning affair in general) but his level was really meh for his usual standards in the final. Djoker should have taken the first set, that was quite the choke. But the second set was saved through good play when it mattered so no biggie.

Djoker 2015 was a good run, but he was a bit more passive there compared to Wimbledon 2015. Even though both Slam finals vs. Federer went four sets, the Wimbledon one was a fair bit better from Djokovic against a better version of Federer imo. Obviously, Fed blew his own BP opportunities, which have been discussed to the point of redundancy. Not much to add from there.

Fed 2008 was nice, and you could possibly swap it with 2007. A few sets dropped here and there, including a couple to Andreev, which is probably what makes me bump it down the list.

Djoker 2018 was a good Slam run, but it wasn't anywhere near the others in terms of level. Easiest draw of the lot, as well.
 

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
But that’s the problem with all these arguments about “level”. We act as if level is some unchanging Platonic ideal. In fact, level rises and drops throughout many tournaments and matches, so all these arguments about Fed 2006 vs Djokovic 2011 are based on what exactly?
Yeah, agree 100%. But basically my point was just based on my personal eye test, Federer in that final would blow anybody in the last 20 years off the court. Just my opinion though.

Your point about level still stands though. Djokovic 2016 and 2011 at the AO is the perfect example.
 

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
Let me guess.


Nose ran away from Nadal multiple times. Djokovic beat Nose and beat Nadal.

but Sir Andy beat Djokovic.

Sir Andy>all.

put Op behind bars for this blasphemous thread.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Take it from this Djokofan: Fed wins this matchup pretty handily. Like I said in an earlier thread I honest can't think of a single USO match where I felt Novak could've beaten anyone in history. The defensive masterclass vs. Delpo may deserve an honorary mention, but on HC great O beats great D most of the time.

Pistol is better than both, though. :cool:
What do you think Peter best USO match was?
 

RS

Legend
This poll is beautiful.

Going more in-depth, I'd rate their winning forms probably like this:

Fed 2004
Fed 2006
Fed 2005
Djoker 2011
Fed 2007 / Djoker 2015
Fed 2008
Djoker 2018

Djoker 2011 could be higher but I'm not the biggest fan of his serve in the final, truth be told. Partly the same deal with Fed 2005 for the backhand, but his forehand that tournament might very well have been the best it's ever been, rivalled only by his other two best USO runs and a handful of other tournaments.

Fed 2004 had the Agassi match which is a decent criticism, but the conditions that match were some of the worst I've ever seen in a professional match. USO 2012 has nothing on that. It's a shame because we might have been robbed of a much higher-quality match that would have counted as a very strong win for Fed there. But still, it was a nice enough match. And obviously the final was one of the best matches he's ever played, period.

2006 was basically your run of the mill peak Fedr Slam tournament. Not much to write home about other than that he was still really good.

Fed 2007 was quite a patchy run for peak Fed standards. He played a really good match in the QF against Roddick (which was a very stunning affair in general) but his level was really meh for his usual standards in the final. Djoker should have taken the first set, that was quite the choke. But the second set was saved through good play when it mattered so no biggie.

Djoker 2015 was a good run, but he was a bit more passive there compared to Wimbledon 2015. Even though both Slam finals vs. Federer went four sets, the Wimbledon one was a fair bit better from Djokovic against a better version of Federer imo. Obviously, Fed blew his own BP opportunities, which have been discussed to the point of redundancy. Not much to add from there.

Fed 2008 was nice, and you could possibly swap it with 2007. A few sets dropped here and there, including a couple to Andreev, which is probably what makes me bump it down the list.

Djoker 2018 was a good Slam run, but it wasn't anywhere near the others in terms of level. Easiest draw of the lot, as well.
The USO 12 final was worse. It was nearly the full match.
 
Last edited:

NatF

Bionic Poster
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The USO 12 final was worse. It was nearly the full match.
Last two sets of the 2004 QF were worse than the average 2012 conditions - which settled a bit towards the end IIRC. On aggregate 2012 was probably worse being it was affected for a large proportion of the match but then the quality of hitting in 2004 craps all over it courtesy of the first three sets and sets four and five were also better.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
This poll is beautiful.

Going more in-depth, I'd rate their winning forms probably like this:

Fed 2004
Fed 2006
Fed 2005
Djoker 2011
Fed 2007 / Djoker 2015
Fed 2008
Djoker 2018

Djoker 2011 could be higher but I'm not the biggest fan of his serve in the final, truth be told. Partly the same deal with Fed 2005 for the backhand, but his forehand that tournament might very well have been the best it's ever been, rivalled only by his other two best USO runs and a handful of other tournaments.

Fed 2004 had the Agassi match which is a decent criticism, but the conditions that match were some of the worst I've ever seen in a professional match. USO 2012 has nothing on that. It's a shame because we might have been robbed of a much higher-quality match that would have counted as a very strong win for Fed there. But still, it was a nice enough match. And obviously the final was one of the best matches he's ever played, period.

2006 was basically your run of the mill peak Fedr Slam tournament. Not much to write home about other than that he was still really good.

Fed 2007 was quite a patchy run for peak Fed standards. He played a really good match in the QF against Roddick (which was a very stunning affair in general) but his level was really meh for his usual standards in the final. Djoker should have taken the first set, that was quite the choke. But the second set was saved through good play when it mattered so no biggie.

Djoker 2015 was a good run, but he was a bit more passive there compared to Wimbledon 2015. Even though both Slam finals vs. Federer went four sets, the Wimbledon one was a fair bit better from Djokovic against a better version of Federer imo. Obviously, Fed blew his own BP opportunities, which have been discussed to the point of redundancy. Not much to add from there.

Fed 2008 was nice, and you could possibly swap it with 2007. A few sets dropped here and there, including a couple to Andreev, which is probably what makes me bump it down the list.

Djoker 2018 was a good Slam run, but it wasn't anywhere near the others in terms of level. Easiest draw of the lot, as well.
At least the wind became an issue in the 2004 match only in the final 2 sets.
 

RS

Legend
Last two sets of the 2004 QF were worse than the average 2012 conditions - which settled a bit towards the end IIRC. On aggregate 2012 was probably worse being it was affected for a large proportion of the match but then the quality of hitting in 2004 craps all over it courtesy of the first three sets and sets four and five were also better.
I thought the wind died down a bit more in the 5th but I remember the 4th Fed was spraying errors and it was a mess.

Not talking about which match had higher quality only the conditions btw.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I thought the wind died down a bit more in the 5th but I remember the 4th Fed was spraying errors and it was a mess.

Not talking about which match had higher quality only the conditions btw.
You could be right, been a while since I watched it all the way through. I think both guys were hitting less safe shots in 2004 from recollection and highlights, don't know if the error count was higher than in 2012.
 

RS

Legend
You could be right, been a while since I watched it all the way through. I think both guys were hitting less safe shots in 2004 from recollection and highlights, don't know if the error count was higher than in 2012.
Fed hit 54 winners to 56 errors and Agassi 34 winners to 39 errors in 2004. In 2012 Murray 31 winners to 56 errors and Djokovic 40 winners to 65 errors according to stats in 2012.
 
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