Highest quality match of the Federer-Djokovic Wimbeldon series?
- Thread starter RS
- Start date
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
2012 was a good match, but I don’t think the highs were as high as in 2014/2015.
2014 was a solid match throughout the whole five sets, but Djokovic probably should have closed it out quicker than he did.
2015 was great for the first two sets, but fell off hard after those two.
2019 simply wasn’t a good match in terms of quality.
2014, then 2012/2015, then 2019.
2014 was a solid match throughout the whole five sets, but Djokovic probably should have closed it out quicker than he did.
2015 was great for the first two sets, but fell off hard after those two.
2019 simply wasn’t a good match in terms of quality.
2014, then 2012/2015, then 2019.
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
AO 2008. Both were nearer their prime.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
2012, of course.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
What a difference a year makes, huh.
RS
Bionic Poster
You should have posted the match.
RS
Bionic Poster
Would you take 2014 over 2007/2008 Fedal?
NonP
Legend
None of 'em makes the GWMOAT shortlist, and while it's easy to say '14 I'd actually go with '15. That was Novak at his GC best and it was a treat to see Geezer Fred going toe to toe with him at least for 2 sets. And since I find consistency overrated in these GMOAT discussions '15 over '14 it is.
Now here's the actual highest-Q match in SW19 history (OE):
Goran was literally unplayable in sets 2 & 4, but Pistol rode out the avalanche and broke at the right times to take the hard-fought W. The BGCOAT. (You mugs that go gaga over the '18 SF have absolutely no clue what these two in servebot mode would do to Djokodal on grass.)
As for GWMOAT it's a tie between the 2 usual candidates:
And perhaps the most scintillating of 'em all:
Last and kinda least, though it makes up for the spotty Q with the bestest crowd as well as the Hollywoodiest ending ever:
Boring answers save one, but they're the correct ones. You're welcome.
Now here's the actual highest-Q match in SW19 history (OE):
Goran was literally unplayable in sets 2 & 4, but Pistol rode out the avalanche and broke at the right times to take the hard-fought W. The BGCOAT. (You mugs that go gaga over the '18 SF have absolutely no clue what these two in servebot mode would do to Djokodal on grass.)
As for GWMOAT it's a tie between the 2 usual candidates:
And perhaps the most scintillating of 'em all:
Last and kinda least, though it makes up for the spotty Q with the bestest crowd as well as the Hollywoodiest ending ever:
Boring answers save one, but they're the correct ones. You're welcome.
Honestly none of their 4 meetings were of very high tennis quality. 2012 Federer completely outplayed Djokovic. 2014 was a close match from the time Federer came back in 4th set after being down 2-5. Till that moment Novak was clearly the better player. 2015 had a peak moment in 2nd set TB but then went downhill. 2019 except for the peak scoreline and the infamous 40-15 was not of high quality either
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
Umm I feel like I have asked you this before but where do you rank Djokovic's best on grass? Especially compared to Federer's?
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
2014, 2015 first two sets but a little too much of servebottery
InsideOut900
Legend
NatF
Bionic Poster
So 2012 Fraud > 2015 Joe?
Given 2012 SF was more one-sided than 2015 F.
Is that so hard to believe?
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
2015 had best single level, but 2019 was outstanding from both.
Serve comes a long way even more on grass.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
This is almost a meme now. Low quality but Federer hit 94 winners, 30s Djokovic his usual granite self in finals.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
I was toying with 2015/2019 but I think Fed improved his mentality by 2019 and fought hard. Unfortunately for him he had brain farts on both MPs.
Compare the retuning from Djokovic in 2014/2015 compared to 2019 and he a little better so yes Federer had a harder job hitting winners past a younger Djokovic.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Yeah I recently rewatched extended highlights of Fedal 08 and 19 Wimbledon matches. I was amazed at how much better they struck the ball in 19 and had improved and evolved as players. It’s like watching a different sport.
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
94. 94 winners. And that was the guy that lost.
Simply impossible for that to be considered a low quality match.
I agree, Fed came to play and was less intimidated Djokovic despite 2 finals losses...he stepped on the court believing he can win. But in 2015 Fed's form coming into the Final was outrageous. Better than Djoker actually...I was sure Fed will win and didn't even care to wake up early and watch it live. Did watch the replay without knowing the result though and was very impressed to find out that Djoker actually beat that level Federer
InsideOut900
Legend
With enough mental gymnastics I can prove 2015 Djokovic beats 2007 Fed and loses to 2017 Fed at Wimbledon and it would probably take me two sentances topsIs that so hard to believe?
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Talk Tennis Guru
2014 final for me!
Zetty
Hall of Fame
He's got it. Novak just wasn't that great in 2019 despite getting the W, he's just a monster of being clutch. They both were at a good level in 2014.
Nadal_Django
Legend
2019. One of the most legendary matches in tennis history.
NonP
Legend
All of Fedovic's AO matches are too one-sided to make the grade, AO or not. Their '10/'11 USO showdowns are much better candidates, though neither equals, say, the '84 SF between Mac and Jimbo (who put on one of the ATG returning exos at the very least):
Depends on what you mean by "best." If we're talking the usual hypothetical scenario where each player plays at or close to 100% for an entire match I don't see Novak beating not only Pistol and Fed but also Mac, Boris, Borg, and even a one-timer like Goran, Stich and Krajicek. At their best these guys have too much firepower or at least too potent a serve-return (game) combo to be neutralized by Novak's own - Edberg and Rafter fall somewhat short in that area, hence their exclusion though they'd still play Nole tough - which is why even as a Novak fan I can see where his detractors (as opposed to haters) are coming from when they say he wouldn't win 5 Wimbledons in an earlier era.
Of course what they fail to see or acknowledge is that nobody plays 100% for a whole match, let alone over the course of a career, and Djokovic has a big edge over any of these guys except Fed in sheer longevity and consistency. I've been thinking recently that his closest old-time equivalent may well turn out to be Rosewall who resembles him in many uncanny respects: not among the strongest in the serve/FH departments, overshadowed by more charismatic rivals (Laver and Hoad vs. Fedal), underrated in terms of peak play... only to end up with arguably the longest period of excellence in the top tier as well as the most extensive collection of Slam trophies. Still too early to say, yes, but it's looking increasingly likely that Nole will become the OE leader in these two GOAT metrics a la his great predecessor.
So if we're talking final peak-to-peak showdowns on Centre Court I say Novak is bested by Pete, Fed, Mac and probably Boris and Borg. It'd be tighter with Edberg and with a Goran, Stich, Krajicek or Cash, provided that these 1-timers bring their championship form (I'd definitely favor the first 3 in an earlier round, but the final is a different story). I do give Nole the edge over Jimbo (better serve, for one), Hewitt, Nadal and Murray.
In an extensive series spread out over several years, though, Pete, Fed, Borg and Mac are the only ones I can see getting the better of Novak. Even on grass his return and rock-solid consistency should be able to mitigate whatever flashes of brilliance the others would bring, and though I still consider Becker a more natural GCer I suspect he'd suffer too many lapses (either on-court or off) to maintain his edge to the bitter end.
In other words Novak is pretty much where he belongs in the GGCOAT discussion. Mac is really the only one I might place over him, but if Nole manages to grab his 6th I think you have to give him his due and concede that his Ws weren't flukes. You have to show up to win and that's where Djokovic has excelled perhaps more than any other ATG in the Open Era.
NatF
Bionic Poster
With enough mental gymnastics I can prove 2015 Djokovic beats 2007 Fed and loses to 2017 Fed at Wimbledon and it would probably take me two sentances tops
So you think mental gymnastics are needed to argue that 2012 Fed > 2015 Djok?
I think it's fairly close in the final couple of rounds tbh.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Spot on. I think 2015 Federer + 2019 mentality could beat 2014 and 2019 Djokovic who was a bit less than 2015 imo.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Gentle reminder for those underrating 2015 Federer.
Wimbledon 2015 Pre final->
Martina Navratilova: "I don't know if I have seen a better match from Roger. He served amazingly well, was so relaxed and mixed it up so well with the serve and from the baseline."
Tim Henman: "Roger was incredible. In the context of this match, playing Andy Murray in the semi-final at Wimbledon, I think that is as good as I have ever seen Roger play.
Pat Cash: "People are surprised when I say this but Federer is a better player now than when he was racking up the titles. It's another thing if his body can last over five sets. The way that he is playing he could win the final against Novak Djokovic in straight sets."
Wimbledon 2015 Pre final->
Martina Navratilova: "I don't know if I have seen a better match from Roger. He served amazingly well, was so relaxed and mixed it up so well with the serve and from the baseline."
Tim Henman: "Roger was incredible. In the context of this match, playing Andy Murray in the semi-final at Wimbledon, I think that is as good as I have ever seen Roger play.
Pat Cash: "People are surprised when I say this but Federer is a better player now than when he was racking up the titles. It's another thing if his body can last over five sets. The way that he is playing he could win the final against Novak Djokovic in straight sets."
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Bud, you call the Federer-Roddick 2009 final low-quality even though BOTH players did very well on winners-UFEs (Fed hit 110 winners). Don’t even go there.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Agreed upon by any objective tennis observers. Everyone involved in tennis knew what an incredible match that was.
But Fed fan eye test says “Fed old so = bad” so must be low quality
InsideOut900
Legend
I was a bit of a joke given there are people who think Djokovic would beat 2007-2008 Fed, while others think he isn't even beating 2017 Fed there.So you think mental gymnastics are needed to argue that 2012 Fed > 2015 Djok?
So given how polarizing some opinions are, I could probably prove both statements as being equally true.
As for the 2012 Fred vs 2015 Djok, I always maintained Djokovic would outlast him over 5 sets due to the age difference and his good clutchness over a long match, while 2009 Fed would probably outlast 2015 Djokovic like he did Roddick back then, which would be the essential distinction between the low prime Fed from 2009 and slightly past prime Fed from 2012.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
was it? 2012 Djo won his set far more convincingly. The 2015 was basically over early in the third set (in reality it felt over after Federer gave the break right back in the first, but obviously the first 2 sets were still tight), the 2012 final in the early 4th set and was still quite up for grabs late in the 3rd set.So 2012 Fraud > 2015 Joe?
Given 2012 SF was more one-sided than 2015 F.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I think that's fair.
2009 Federer is just underated in that final because of lol Roddick.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
I would be interested to see the breakdown in the types of winners.
IIRC 09 Fed hit 50 aces and even more unreturnable serves. Was a servebot affair with a lack of great rallies from the recent extended highlights I viewed.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
An even better version in 2015 only won 1 set. I think Djokovic wins in straight sets.
Remember, Fed’s personal pigeon Roddick blew the 2nd set to go 2-0 up.Peak Djokovic would not be so kind. Maybe 09 Fed can steal a set.
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