History beckons Novak Djokovic

[Hitman]

Court won her 24th slam in 1973, over 50 years ago, but retired in 1977. Regardless of her form, she would have always been playing for the 25th until she retired.

Now, 47 years later, another has risen to compete for the elusive 25th slam. History beckons Novak Djokovic every time he will step into a slam from now on.

The last time it was possible, Borg was Wimbledon champion during it's 100 year anniversary.

Djokovic will always now be on the verge of one the most iconic achievements in sporting history. The explosive climax and the final chapter of one of the greatest eras is about to begin. Next time on Dragonball Z.

 

[Deleted member 805385]

I wish Trongcharoenchaikul qualified for the AO. I want Djokovic to face him, but Prizmic is fine too.

 

[-NN-]

Court won her 24th slam in 1973, over 50 years ago, but retired in 1977. Regardless of her form, she would have always been playing for the 25th until she retired.

Now, 47 years later, another has risen to compete for the elusive 25th slam. History beckons Novak Djokovic every time he will step into a slam from now on.

The last time it was possible, Borg was Wimbledon champion during it's 100 year anniversary.

Djokovic will always now be on the verge of one the most iconic achievements in sporting history. The explosive climax and the final chapter of one of greatest eras is about to begin. Next time on Dragonball Z.

I tried watching that again recently (Japanese with Kikuchi score) and dayum the pacing is slow. I don't like how much Kai cuts out though. That Gohan orphan town episode ended up being one of my faves and a lot of that stuff was cut from Kai.

 

[Hitman]

I tried watching that again recently (Japanese with Kikuchi score) and dayum the pacing is slow. I don't like how much Kai cuts out though. That Gohan orphan town episode ended up being one of my faves and a lot of that stuff was cut from Kai.

Kai doesn't work for me in the anime, only works in the manga.

 

[Jonesy]

Court is irrelevant, project 26 is what the real history is all about.

 

[-NN-]

Kai doesn't work for me in the anime, only works in the manga.

True enough, as that's what it matches up better to.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Disrespectful to Djokovic to compare his achievements to the troll that is Court. Almost half of her slams were when players didn't even bother coming to Australia and 3 of them she only played 4 matches... weak.

Nobody considers Court as relevant in the GOAT conversation. Just frankly mean to Graf and Serena.

 

[fedfan24]

 

[Red Rick]

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Is that what Djokovic said about kids before he went to that photo shoot while he had Covid?

 

[pirhaksar]

I don’t recall Court being in the conversation a decade ago. Think first it was Serena was stuck on 23 is when the media suddenly propped Court up. I wonder if Djokovic is really thinking of 25 in that historic sense.

 

[Razer]

Court won her 24th slam in 1973, over 50 years ago, but retired in 1977. Regardless of her form, she would have always been playing for the 25th until she retired.

Now, 47 years later, another has risen to compete for the elusive 25th slam. History beckons Novak Djokovic every time he will step into a slam from now on.

The last time it was possible, Borg was Wimbledon champion during it's 100 year anniversary.

Djokovic will always now be on the verge of one the most iconic achievements in sporting history. The explosive climax and the final chapter of one of the greatest eras is about to begin. Next time on Dragonball Z.

Is Djokovic a female ?

 

[nolefam_2024]

I don’t recall Court being in the conversation a decade ago. Think first it was Serena was stuck on 23 is when the media suddenly propped Court up. I wonder if Djokovic is really thinking of 25 in that historic sense.

That's the fault of tennis authorities. They buried court for decades. Finally she is getting recognized.

 

[Sport]

Disrespectful to Djokovic to compare his achievements to the troll that is Court. Almost half of her slams were when players didn't even bother coming to Australia and 3 of them she only played 4 matches... weak.

Nobody considers Court as relevant in the GOAT conversation. Just frankly mean to Graf and Serena.

In fact, Court did face the best players of her time at the AO. This is a list of multiple Grand Slam winners who participated at the Australian Open between 1960 and 1975:

1. Lesley Turner Bowrey (2 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1975.
2. Evonne Goolagong Cawley (14 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972 1973, 1974, and 1975.
3. Maria Bueno (7 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1960 and 1965.
4. Billie Jean King (11 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1965, 1968 and 1969.

This is Court's H2H at the Australian Open over other multiple Grand Slam winners of her time:

Court leads Bowrey 2-0.
Court leads Goolagong 4-0.
Court leads Bueno 2-0.
Court leads Jean-King 2-1.

Total= Court leads 10-1 the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners.

In sum, the best players of Court's time did participate at the AO. Court never participated at the AO without having at least one multiple Grand Slam winner in the draw. Court leads the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners 10-1. That's brutal domination and strongly suggests that is has nothing to do with a supposed "weak competition". Court was simply the best. I repeat, she leads 10-1 the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners.

Logico-methodological conclusion: Court has 24 Grand Slams and is the women's GOAT.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Disrespectful to Djokovic to compare his achievements to the troll that is Court. Almost half of her slams were when players didn't even bother coming to Australia and 3 of them she only played 4 matches... weak.

Nobody considers Court as relevant in the GOAT conversation. Just frankly mean to Graf and Serena.

You speaking positive about Djokovic? Well that is a first.

 

[Sport]

That's the fault of tennis authorities. They buried court for decades. Finally she is getting recognized.

Well said.

 

[nolefam_2024]

In fact, Court did face the best players of her time at the AO.

1. This is a list of multiple Grand Slam winners who participated at the Australian Open between 1960 and 1975:
2. Lesley Turner Bowrey (2 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1975.
3. Evonne Goolagong Cawley (14 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972 1973, 1974, and 1975.
4. Maria Bueno (7 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1960 and 1965.
5. Billie Jean King (11 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1965, 1968 and 1969.

This is Court's H2H at the Australian Open over other multiple Grand Slam winners of her time:

Court leads Bowrey 2-0.
Court leads Goolagong 4-0.
Court leads Bueno 2-0.
Court leads Jean-King 2-1.

Total= Court leads 10-1 the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners.

In sum, the best players of Court's time did participate at the AO. Court never participated at the AO without having at least one multiple Grand Slam winner in the draw. Court leads the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners 10-1. That's brutal domination and strongly suggest that is has nothing to do with a "weak competition". Court was simply the best. I repeat, she leads 10-1 the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners.

Logico-methodological conclusion: Court has 24 Grand Slams and is the women's GOAT.

Court's domination is indeed brutal and probably better than Martina's who is most dominant of all time. Court definitely belongs at least in top 3 over Martina. Court graf Serena.

 

[Deleted member 758560]

You speaking positive about Djokovic? Well that is a first.

the lesser of two evils

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

In fact, Court did face the best players of her time at the AO.

1. This is a list of multiple Grand Slam winners who participated at the Australian Open between 1960 and 1975:
2. Lesley Turner Bowrey (2 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1975.
3. Evonne Goolagong Cawley (14 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972 1973, 1974, and 1975.
4. Maria Bueno (7 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1960 and 1965.
5. Billie Jean King (11 times Grand Slam winner): participated in 1965, 1968 and 1969.

This is Court's H2H at the Australian Open over other multiple Grand Slam winners of her time:

Court leads Bowrey 2-0.
Court leads Goolagong 4-0.
Court leads Bueno 2-0.
Court leads Jean-King 2-1.

Total= Court leads 10-1 the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners.

In sum, the best players of Court's time did participate at the AO. Court never participated at the AO without having at least one multiple Grand Slam winner in the draw. Court leads the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners 10-1. That's brutal domination and strongly suggest that is has nothing to do with a "weak competition". Court was simply the best. I repeat, she leads 10-1 the H2H over multiple Grand Slam winners.

Logico-methodological conclusion: Court has 24 Grand Slams and is the women's GOAT.

You are off with those slam numbers (King won 12 not 11 and Goolagong did not win 14, where did you get that number from?) but your overall point stands of course. Lol at those arguments with the 4 or 5 matches, as if two more rounds with journeyladies would have stopped Court.

 

[NoleFam]

Djokovic and Serena made Court more relevant. This is how I remember it:

Spoiler

 

[Hitman]

Djokovic and Serena made Court more relevant. This is how I remember it:

Spoiler

If Djokovic gets 25, either here or anywhere else down the line, then there is no place to run or hide, and no more names to bring up.

No one in front of him, no one to the left of him, no one to the right of him.

 

[Hitman]

I don’t recall Court being in the conversation a decade ago. Think first it was Serena was stuck on 23 is when the media suddenly propped Court up. I wonder if Djokovic is really thinking of 25 in that historic sense.

He will be. He knows the only way to stand alone is getting 25.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Djokovic and Serena made Court more relevant. This is how I remember it:

Spoiler

Why is that though ? WTA didn't have tour splits.

It seems like huge Agenda to push BJK out of the top to make American stars better.

 

[NoleFam]

If Djokovic gets 25, either here or anywhere else down the line, then there is no place to run or hide, and no more names to bring up.

No one in front of him, no one to the left of him, no one to the right of him.

Which is what I hope he does. It's probably not necessary but might as well not leave any stone unturned. He already has the most weeks at #1 male or female.

 

[NoleFam]

Why is that though ? WTA didn't have tour splits.

It seems like huge Agenda to push BJK out of the top to make American stars better.

Because many people didn't value her weaker Slams. I mean it's a fact that she never won a Slam winning 7 matches. Graf and Serena did it 22 and 23 times respectively. That's before we even talk about her AO titles. That's the difference between Open Era and pre-Open Era.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

He will be. He knows the only way to stand alone is getting 25.

If he did, that would be laughable. He does not need to care about Court, he is not compared to her, different sports. Obviously he wants to win more slams but he won't care about this "record".

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Because many people didn't value her weaker Slams. I mean it's a fact that she never won a Slam winning 7 matches. Graf and Serena did it 22 and 23 times respectively. That's before we even talk about her AO titles. That's the difference between Open Era and pre-Open Era.

Do you really think, some lower ranked women in early rounds would have upset Court often enough to make a difference? For the most part on the women's tour it was already a miracle if top players lost a set before the quarters.

 

[NoleFam]

She won multiple FOs and USOs winning seven matches.

As far as I know she never did and won a few winning 6 matches, but I'm willing to correct that if I'm wrong on that.

 

[Gizo]

In between Graf winning her 19th major at RG in June 1996, and the aftermath of her retirement in August 1999, I don't remember one single mention of her holding an open era record for the most major titles, and I followed tennis closely then. I've read a lot of newspaper articles from during that period in English, German, French etc., after that RG title in 1996, after she won her 21st major at the US Open later that year, after she won her 22nd and final major at RG in June 1999, a couple of months later following her retirement etc., which all mentioned Court's record, the fact that Graf was closing in on it, finished 2 behind it etc.

Here is one of many examples:

Graf Wins Wrenching French Epic

Now of course there was also plenty of talk about the 11 Australian Championships / Open titles that Court won including the state of the draws, and the fact that she 'only' won 3 Wimbledon titles (a far bigger factor when she is compared against other legends IMO given that Wimbledon completely towered above the other 3 majors in terms of importance and her playing style). The grand slam count definitely wasn't seen as the be all and end all. Graf's grand slam in 1988 plus Olympic gold medal and feat of winning each major at least 4 times were also mentioned a lot, and numerous people did consider some or all of Graf, Navratilova and Evert to be greater.

But the idea that no-one mentioned Court's record until Serena closed in on / equalled / overtook Graf's mark of 22 majors, is not remotely true.

And BTW here is a screenshot from the 2010 Australian Open:

 

[nolefam_2024]

Because many people didn't value her weaker Slams. I mean it's a fact that she never won a Slam winning 7 matches. Graf and Serena did it 22 and 23 times respectively. That's before we even talk about her AO titles. That's the difference between Open Era and pre-Open Era.

So what? She was not having any chance then. Look at her records. Everywhere it's close to 90% wins in AO RG Wimby USO.
If she didn't skip many slams for pregnancy (2 or 3 times ) she would probably go past 30 slams. I am never going to value someone like Navaratilova with 18 over court who got 24 with so many breaks.

Competition can make only so much difference. It's not going to reduce her record from 24 to 17.

Graf had asterisk career completely when its her Own fan who tried to murder her rival who was owning her.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Court won 24 out of 47 slams she appeared.

Graf won 22 out of 54

Serena 23 out of 81

And Martina won 18 out of 67.

 

[NoleFam]

So what? She was not having any chance then. Look at her records. Everywhere it's close to 90% wins in AO RG Wimby USO.
If she didn't skip many slams for pregnancy (2 or 3 times ) she would probably go past 30 slams. I am never going to value someone like Navaratilova with 18 over court who got 24 with so many breaks.

Competition can make only so much difference. It's not going to reduce her record from 24 to 17.

Graf had asterisk career completely when its her Own fan who tried to murder her rival who was owning her.

Everytime Court's name came up when I was watching matches back then, they all said Court has 24 but most of those were pre-Open Era and weaker wins or something along those lines. It was always about Graf and Navratilova before her. Navratilova has 9 Wimbledons so it's a no brainer they value her over Court with 3, and being that she padded her Slam count with all those weaker AO titles. Graf/Seles is another topic but at the end of the day, Graf won hers in the modern era of the WTA.

 

[Airspun]

He'll win 27 at least and his fans will still be insecure about it as fedal will still be more beloved throughout history.
no?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Insecure is a trick these fedal worshippers are using. We compare him vs fedal and then don't measure up anymore because he is in the league of his own.

 

[Hitman]

If he did, that would be laughable. He does not need to care about Court, he is not compared to her, different sports. Obviously he wants to win more slams but he won't care about this "record".

I think he wants to shut down all the comparisons, male or female, not matter how out there they may be. Only Court remains now.

 

[Kralingen]

Court played against plumbers

 

[nolefam_2024]

I think he wants to shut down all the comparisons, male or female, not matter how out there they may be. Only Court remains now.

He should elevate court along with himself. Talk about how records more. He is going to win 25 weather it's in AO or Wimbledon it doesn't matter. It's going to happen.

 

[Neptune]

Court won her 24th slam in 1973, over 50 years ago, but retired in 1977. Regardless of her form, she would have always been playing for the 25th until she retired.

Now, 47 years later, another has risen to compete for the elusive 25th slam. History beckons Novak Djokovic every time he will step into a slam from now on.

The last time it was possible, Borg was Wimbledon champion during it's 100 year anniversary.

Djokovic will always now be on the verge of one the most iconic achievements in sporting history. The explosive climax and the final chapter of one of the greatest eras is about to begin. Next time on Dragonball Z.

Borg and Nole are the most important two!

 

[Razer]

If Djokovic gets 25, either here or anywhere else down the line, then there is no place to run or hide, and no more names to bring up.

No one in front of him, no one to the left of him, no one to the right of him.

Shingo Kunieda has 28 Grand Slams in Singles (11 Aus Opens + 8 French Opens + 1 Wimbledon + 8 US Opens)

This is 1 name.

Since Novak likes to chase targets outside his competition (like Court), let him beat Kunieda's mark.

 

[Tennfan123]

Snooze.

 

[pirhaksar]

Shingo Kunieda has 28 Grand Slams in Singles (11 Aus Opens + 8 French Opens + 1 Wimbledon + 8 US Opens)

This is 1 name.

Since Novak likes to chase targets outside his competition (like Court), let him beat Kunieda's mark.

It’s actually not Djokovic chasing these imaginary ceilings. It’s the media and a good mix of both haters who want to deny him his rightful place and fans who want every conceivable record major or minor for their man. I’d like to believe he knows his only competition of relevance is the other 2 members of the Big 3. If he bests them on most measurable metrics (which he already has imo) then there’s nothing more to it.

 

[nolefam_2024]

No kunieda record is not something to target.

Neither is Court's. But when Nole wins 25, he will be the only one with most slams of all time men or women. Why not make it a big deal NOW while he is still chasing it. Let's elevate court so Nole can surpass her.

 

[mike danny]

Court won her 24th slam in 1973, over 50 years ago, but retired in 1977. Regardless of her form, she would have always been playing for the 25th until she retired.

Now, 47 years later, another has risen to compete for the elusive 25th slam. History beckons Novak Djokovic every time he will step into a slam from now on.

The last time it was possible, Borg was Wimbledon champion during it's 100 year anniversary.

Djokovic will always now be on the verge of one the most iconic achievements in sporting history. The explosive climax and the final chapter of one of the greatest eras is about to begin. Next time on Dragonball Z.

Djokovic looks better without a beard.

 

[Razer]

No kunieda record is not something to target.

Neither is Court's. But when Nole wins 25, he will be the only one with most slams of all time men or women. Why not make it a big deal NOW while he is still chasing it. Let's elevate court so Nole can surpass her.

Kunieda is also a human, he is not an alien.

If Court's record can be targeted then Kunieda should be the ultimate target.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Kunieda is also a human, he is not an alien.

If Court's record can be targeted then Kunieda should be the ultimate target.

Most of the tennis fans had never heard of Kunieda. This is rather unknown one. If you didn't know about Court then its your own ignorance.

 

[Razer]

Most of the tennis fans had never heard of Kunieda. This is rather unknown one. If you didn't know about Court then its your own ignorance.

You haven't even seen Federer in his peak years play but you are worried about Court who is probably from an era when even your parents must be little kids/toddlers. Do you have any shame brother ? You are marketing Court but you cannot market Kuneida? Why?

If Court is relevant enough in the world of Tennis to be compared with Djokovic then so is Kuneida.

 

[nolefam_2024]

You haven't even seen Federer in his peak years play but you are worried about Court who is probably from an era when even your parents must be little kids. Do you have any shame brother ? You are marketing Court but you cannot market Kuneida? Why?

If Court is relevant enough in the world of Tennis to be compared with Djokovic then so is Kuneida.

I have no shame. I have seen fed play in his peak. Its seem to be YOUR fault that me watching tennis after 2010 is so bothering you. Face it, it doesn't matter if you watched for some more time.

 

[Hitman]

No mentioned of Kuneida.....

 

[Robert F]

Comparing Court to Djoker makes no sense.
Different leagues, different generations, different sex, different tennis world situation--pre-open to open era, limited women's competition in the beginning of modern sport vs today.

This makes me wonder, when the slams go to Best of 3, will that be a dividing line?
Will they list most BO5 slam winners vs. BO3 slam winners for the men?
Will BO3 create more champions or will there by a BO3 Vulture who can surpass Djoker iin slam total since this vulture will be less fatigued throughout tournaments and seasons?

 

[Gizo]

Clearly men's and women's records should be viewed separetely to each other. I think that combined lists are utterly ridiculous - another reason I dislike them is that they result in a lower number of both male and female players actually being included and recognised.

Still it was previously always a given that pretty much all of the major records, i.e. most majors, most titles at individual major events, most weeks as world no. 1 on the ranking computer, most year end no. 1 finishes etc., would be numerically higher on the women's side than men's, given that men's tennis traditionally had significantly more depth in the field (understandably so as it had a big head start in many areas), and was more impacted by politics in terms of amateur vs. professional splits, bans, boycotts etc.

Previously, and strictly within the realms of singles, I definitely wasn't expecting to see any male players:

- Winning the same no. of majors overall as Graf (Nadal), let alone Court (Djokovic), with of course the latter having a great opportunity to end up with a higher total.
- Winning 4 more majors on clay than Evert did (Nadal).
- Winning more titles at an individual major than Navratilova won at Wimbledon (both Nadal and Djokovic), let alone 3 more titles than Court won at Kooyong (Nadal) with Djokovic also standing a good chance of equalling that mark this month.
- Spending at least 32 more weeks as the world no. 1 on the ATP ranking computer than Graf did on the WTA computer (Djokovic).
- Achieving the same number of ranking computer year end no. 1 finishes as Graf (Djokovic), and even if you look beyond the Seles stabbing, I’d say that Graf's year end no. 1 finish in 1994 (Sanchez clearly was the player of the year record-wise IMO), was ‘weaker' than any of Djokovic's.

It still feels surreal to me.