I couldn't say it any better than above. I watch our 5.0's play doubles all the time at our club. None of them server over 100mph. This might be an exception to the rule, but what I've seen. Their second serves might be 10% slower than first serves though.
Hit a 98 MPH serve today!!
- Thread starter HunterST
- Start date
I couldn't say it any better than above. I watch our 5.0's play doubles all the time at our club. None of them server over 100mph. This might be an exception to the rule, but what I've seen. Their second serves might be 10% slower than first serves though.
86, you watch the wrong crowd.
Most 5.0's I know serve as fast as any top 20 Pro mens, but they don't get it in as often, don't follow it up with nearly as good a shot, can't play a strong defensive shot if the returner hits one on the money, and they don't move nearly as well.
Smacking a serve 110 plus is nothing. It's the rest of the game that determines how good you can play.
I know several 3.5's who hit the ball well over 125, and of course, they're big (over 200lbs), tall (over 6'3"), and strong as an ox with ball sports skills when they were younger. They just didn't CHOOSE to play tennis when they were younger.
Same as me, I CHOSE to play football and basketball in high school, raced AFM roadraces on the weekends, and started surfing.
Didn't get into tennis til 24.
Most 5.0's I know serve as fast as any top 20 Pro mens, but they don't get it in as often, don't follow it up with nearly as good a shot, can't play a strong defensive shot if the returner hits one on the money, and they don't move nearly as well.
Smacking a serve 110 plus is nothing. It's the rest of the game that determines how good you can play.
I know several 3.5's who hit the ball well over 125, and of course, they're big (over 200lbs), tall (over 6'3"), and strong as an ox with ball sports skills when they were younger. They just didn't CHOOSE to play tennis when they were younger.
Same as me, I CHOSE to play football and basketball in high school, raced AFM roadraces on the weekends, and started surfing.
Didn't get into tennis til 24.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
Hold on LeeD, you're saying you got 5.0 or 5.5 level starting at 24?
I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I'm finding it harder and harder to believe some of your claims.
I can't really see a former 5.5 with a 130 mph serve being a 3.5, even if they are in their 60s. I'm not trying to call you a liar, but surely you can understand how it would be hard to believe that a person on the internet, with no evidence to support their claims, played with several former pros, can serve 120-130 mph and was a former 5.5 but has fallen to a lowly 3.5.
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big bang
Hall of Fame
a week or 2 ago in SuperDuys thread you said your serve looked similar to Kordas, guess it just changed then! what about next week then? Roddicks or Feds?Bold words for 901 posts!
Don't discount the serve speeds of someone who has played at A-Open levels for a couple of years.
Remember, nowadays at 61, first try no stretching or warmup, I can throw an NFL football over 55 yards.
And when I practice my serves, most come over and watch for a little while, any court, anywhere.
Of course, they wonder how someone can miss so many flat first serves.......
the more of your posts I read the funnier it gets, I can understand why you dont want to post any videos of your game!
big bang
Hall of Fame
you are not alone
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Fed doesn't have the fastest serves but he does have a fast serve. Big difference. 50 mph serves no matter what the action or placement are no trouble whatsoever. 130 mph serves without good placement are still trouble. It's the combination of speed AND location that matter.
You kids are stupid, as usual, for kids.
At 24, everyone is the strongest they'll ever be. All the way up to maybe 28.
Those were my tennis years.
First year, I could hit a first serve faster than any 15 year old, because I was a full grown adult, played Varsity Football and basketball for my high school, fenced on the foil team as a freshman first season college (against 4th semester fencers).
As a young adult, the top female players would hit with me for practice, knowing I could actually offer them something in practice (big lefty serve, good volleys, quick movement). They would never hit with 18 year old boys, or younger, because EGO gets in the way.
The high school and junior college players would hit with me, because they knew within my 3rd year, I could win any C tourney. I did, finals my first tourney, won the second.
You little kids have no strength, have no brains, and don't know how to move at all.
At 24, everyone is the strongest they'll ever be. All the way up to maybe 28.
Those were my tennis years.
First year, I could hit a first serve faster than any 15 year old, because I was a full grown adult, played Varsity Football and basketball for my high school, fenced on the foil team as a freshman first season college (against 4th semester fencers).
As a young adult, the top female players would hit with me for practice, knowing I could actually offer them something in practice (big lefty serve, good volleys, quick movement). They would never hit with 18 year old boys, or younger, because EGO gets in the way.
The high school and junior college players would hit with me, because they knew within my 3rd year, I could win any C tourney. I did, finals my first tourney, won the second.
You little kids have no strength, have no brains, and don't know how to move at all.
And here's where the wheels start to fall off.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
I'm not really a kid, and I'm not trying to start a bitter argument, so I don't see why you're calling me stupid.
I wasn't saying that someone at 24 was too old to be good, just that I can't see someone reaching the 5.5 level within 4 years.
I also find it difficult to believe that someone could develop that great of a serve within a year, no matter how athletic they are. I played varsity basketball and was a varsity wrestler and I just hit 98 mph yesterday after 20 months of playing.
I sincerely hope you will post a video or some other type of proof that all your claims are true. However, until then, I just can't bring myself to blindly accept such bold claims from someone who posts anonymously over the internet.
I don't care if you believe or not, my claims.
I'm only here to give YOU advice on how to play tennis.
When someone questions my advice, THEN I state my level of play.
Of course I can serve, ground, or volley. You already know the players I practiced with.
Imagine if I didn't have a serve or a volley. Why would anyone want to ever play me?
Remember, I was a goofball surfer dude southpaw!
I'm only here to give YOU advice on how to play tennis.
When someone questions my advice, THEN I state my level of play.
Of course I can serve, ground, or volley. You already know the players I practiced with.
Imagine if I didn't have a serve or a volley. Why would anyone want to ever play me?
Remember, I was a goofball surfer dude southpaw!
HunterST
Hall of Fame
I don't see anyone hitting 100mph with bad technique.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
Well, I have a difficult time believing some of what you say, but I do know that you give excellent advice to a lot of posters, so really, as you said, your playing history and what I believe about it are irrelevant.
shanked_it
Rookie
There's a reason why form is important.. Without it, you wont serve big, all this muscle talk is making me wonder how often you guys(talking the ez to serve hard but placing is hard) are returning a serve accompanied with a massive argh indoors with some awesome acoustics -D) instead of actually having 100(or above) mphs at you. Not saying you need to be awesome to reach 100mphs, just that, you can't just crush it in there...
How often do you think you'd win a point with a 120-130 mph serve? It's time to take a reality check, those numbers are big, and should win you the point more often than not.
It's time to start posting some clips of these bad technique massive speed serves on which the only negative point is placement and a torn shoulder, preferably in 60fps and the whole court showing....
-D) instead of actually having 100(or above) mphs at you. Not saying you need to be awesome to reach 100mphs, just that, you can't just crush it in there...How often do you think you'd win a point with a 120-130 mph serve? It's time to take a reality check, those numbers are big, and should win you the point more often than not.
It's time to start posting some clips of these bad technique massive speed serves on which the only negative point is placement and a torn shoulder, preferably in 60fps and the whole court showing....
ProgressoR
Hall of Fame
Assuming my fastest serve is about 120, I'd say the chances of me winning a point with a 120 MPH serve are about 1/30...because that's the chances of it actually going in
good point here. I think talk of serve speed should be restricted to serves that go in for a useful % and thus you would use in a match. Even 30% is probably good enough i think. But fast serve speeds of serves that rarely go in is like saying i can hit my forehand 90mph but it hits the back fence without bouncing, every time, its pointless (in 2 ways).
big bang
Hall of Fame
you talk about kids! Im 34 and head coach at my club, also former div 1 player (and yes a few ppl on this board know me and what level I play at).
Ive been playing since I was 11 and trained very hard all my life. Im a very gifted athlete myself and can compete at high level in other sports as well.
thats probably why I dont believe your claims!
you claim your level of play and who you practiced with yes, but from the post I have read noone seems to be able to confirm this!
mtommer
Hall of Fame
big bang
Hall of Fame
that would be fun, but unfortunately Im from Europe.. thats a long way just for a hit!
karophiteblu
Semi-Pro
based on this i'm a 4.0 lol
Falloutjr
Banned
I think you guys underestimate how good a powerful serve is. Is placement important? Yeah. I ace people more hitting 105 down the T than 120 with no idea where the ball is gonna go (it usually goes in the same place when I hit it that hard, can't move it around at all, right at the body on most occasions). But sheer power CAN be a weapon. Adding that 15 mph sometimes is the difference between someone taking a neutral shot at your ball and taking a defensive chip at your ball. It's not always harder to return a big serve with no placement, but it's harder to return it with any authority.
As for your accomplishment, congrats! Hope to see you up over 100
As for your accomplishment, congrats! Hope to see you up over 100
WildVolley
Legend
Have you ever seen the "waiter's tray" form, in which you slam at the ball with a forehand grip, sort of like a badminton serve? I've clocked people hitting serves over 100mph with that serve. In all cases, it was a fairly young athletic guy jumping into the shot and getting a lot of racket head speed. Still, a low percentage serve, but I've been aced by 3.0s with this sort of serve.
shanked_it
Rookie
Well, if you are able to get your body in it, the techinque isnt all that bad, for the power side that is... problem is the the fact that forehand grip makes it float long more often than not. I think we were talking about just arming it well over 100mph with little to no techniquem like someone claimed. Getting the kinetic chain working is a big(gest?) part of the power side.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
What does this mean? Are you saying your first serve is a weapon and you 2nd serve is neutral against the people you play against? That's kind of irrelevant.
I was guessing at how each NTRP level would be affected specifically by an 85mph 1st serve and 60mph second serve.
karophiteblu
Semi-Pro
lol i'm not saying that I'm ACTUALLY a 4.0. But if this WERE all the information that I am given, then I would be 4.0. Of course this is not how NTRP ratings are determined
You're right, this is irrelevant, but it's not like irrelevant posts are rare...
HunterST
Hall of Fame
Oh, well it's relevant if you're a 4.0. I thought maybe you were a 2.5-3.0 saying that my scale was stupid because their serve had the same effect I listed for a 4.0. If that makes any sense at all.
So your first serve is a weapon and your 2nd serve is neutral at 4.0? Do you know what your serve speeds are?
karophiteblu
Semi-Pro
No I've never tested the speed of my serves. I know that my second serve is considerably slower than my first serve and somehow my second serves are such that my opponent sometimes struggles to return it over the net...Maybe its my opponent's problem.
My first serve is pretty fast though.
marosmith
Professional
98 MPH is an accomplishment. Alot of idiots here are members of the "100 MPH club" but really only in their minds. They are guessing. They haven't used a radar gun. They are full of it.
I have been playing for 2 years too and my fastest radar gun recording was about 85 and have since changed my serve, hitting fence on first bounce, faster etc... But it could be speculation to say I hit 100 even though it seems so much faster.
RoddickAce
Hall of Fame
Hey Hunter, if you remembr me from the first page (way back), I got my serve measured at the rogers cup and avg'd 95 mph with their horrible racquet, no warm up serves (except the 3 actual serves they give you for serve speed measuring) on the real court and 104.5 mph at the serve cage. So I guess my serves aren't rly in the 80-85 range with my own racquet after warming up afterall XD!
HunterST
Hall of Fame
haha! Wow! I can't believe people underestimated you based on your video!
HunterST
Hall of Fame
In my experience, around 75 mph will hit around a foot or two up on the back fence. That makes me believe if the serve was much slower it wouldn't make it.
W
Winky
Guest
oh yeah, I estimate most of my serves to be well over 200mph.
aphex
Banned
LeeD, how can I get a 130mph serve in one year.
should I eat a lot of spinach?
your advice on the matter would be highly appreciated.
The best way in my experience to fairly easily break the 100mph barrier is to concentrate on insane pronation (snapping nearly as hard as you can, but make sure to condition your wrists and forearms and torso twist. I've seen plenty of high level coaches hitting 100s from their knees by focusing on these two keys. I was able to pretty easily crack low 100s in high school, as my coach pushed these two factors for generating pace. After some weight and flexibility training in college i was able to add 15 or so mph.
But a well placed 80mph slice out wide, topspin down the T or kicker out wide wins more points than a 100mph serve to swing zones. As your level increases so does the return ability of your opponents. Some of my fastest serves were easily redirected down the line for winners by good returners because the placement was trash.
But a well placed 80mph slice out wide, topspin down the T or kicker out wide wins more points than a 100mph serve to swing zones. As your level increases so does the return ability of your opponents. Some of my fastest serves were easily redirected down the line for winners by good returners because the placement was trash.
aphex
Banned
True about the pronation.
There are guys on wheelchairs breaking 100.
One has to wonder how big murray would be serving if he was pronating correctly...
Falloutjr
Banned
Lol a 75 mph flat serve will not hit the fence in one bounce. 90, maybe. A good 75 mph kicker could hit the fence two feet up with ease, but if you hit flat, it's a different story.
Falloutjr
Banned
A guy who is not pronating correctly would never even come NEAR 140. Hell, they wouldn't get near 110.
aphex
Banned
i dont want to get into a discussion. i just hope you understand what pronation is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwow2QGkNuw
aphex
Banned
but in case you don't, this is what proper pronation looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrfqjokS_Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrfqjokS_Q&feature=related
A lot of people think they can estimate the speed on there serve based on how high up they fence their serve goes.
This is impossible to know because every court is different. Now if there was a standard distance between the baseline and he back fence, then this "test" might be reliable. But there is no standard. You also have to account for how deep in the box you hit it, how tall the person is and the trajectory.
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HunterST
Hall of Fame
lol right back at you.
I've actually hit with a radar gun, recorded my serves and yes, 75 mph 100% will hit the back fence. Not high up at all, but they do.
if you're saying it takes a 90 mph flat serve to hit the back fence, you are severely overrating your serve speed. My 90 mph serves hit at least 5 feet up the back fence. This holds true for various courts in my city so it's not like I'm just hitting on a court with close back fences.
GarrettReid
Rookie
I wish I could consistently get my serves into the service box. :/
Falloutjr
Banned
I'm just speaking from what I've seen in my own experience. One day, my coach brought a radar gun to practice, and I hit a 109 serve that hit the fence two feet up and a 101 serve that hit the fence 4 feet up, it's really just a matter of the angle you hit it with, and how much topspin your serve has on it. My first serve has virtually no topspin, so my first serves don't hit the fence more than 3-4 feet up. A lot of people's "flat" serves still land in the box by a good couple feet and have a lot of topspin.
The variance in distance between the baseline and the fence makes it impossible to really determine how fast the serve is moving on any consistent basis for several reasons. It changes considerably based on where the ball is hit (wide, body, T), the amount of rotation on the ball, and the depth within the service box that the serve lands.
I'm not sure why people concentrate on speed so much, spin is much more critical. It's responsible for more unreturned serves than speed ever is if you reach a decent level of play. Speed is only really a weapon on aces, and even then, the position of the serve is much more important.
If people would concentrate more on technique, ball rotation, and placement of the serve, they would win so many more points, which happens to be the goal, winning. Once you've mastered the technique, spin, and placement, you just need to accelerate the racquet a bit more, twist the torso a bit more, and toss the ball a little farther into the court, and your speed will increase. It's considerably easier to add speed to a proper serve utilizing good technique, placement, and ball rotation, than it is to add rotation, technique, and placement to a serve that someone has tried to make fast.
I'm not sure why people concentrate on speed so much, spin is much more critical. It's responsible for more unreturned serves than speed ever is if you reach a decent level of play. Speed is only really a weapon on aces, and even then, the position of the serve is much more important.
If people would concentrate more on technique, ball rotation, and placement of the serve, they would win so many more points, which happens to be the goal, winning. Once you've mastered the technique, spin, and placement, you just need to accelerate the racquet a bit more, twist the torso a bit more, and toss the ball a little farther into the court, and your speed will increase. It's considerably easier to add speed to a proper serve utilizing good technique, placement, and ball rotation, than it is to add rotation, technique, and placement to a serve that someone has tried to make fast.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
sure it can, unless the fence is 40 feet behind the baseline. But in a standard public size tennis court, that is no problem.
Sampras slammed a 138 in an exhibition match
Falloutjr
Banned
I'm sorry, I'd have to see a radar gun of a FLAT serve @ 75 mph hitting a fence in one bounce on a standard court. That seems unrealistic. It doesn't seem like it would have enough sheer speed to hit the fence before it bounces or enough kick to make it bounce high enough/roll after the bounce to do that.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
No offense or anything, but like I said, I think you're really underrating how fast a 75mph serve is and overrating how fast the serves you see are. A 75 mph serve is very slow for a pro, but for recreational and high school players it's pretty fast.
Just trust me. I've hit 75 mph serves and watched them bounce up and hit the back fence. I have no reason to lie.
Falloutjr
Banned
I guess I'll take your word for it, though it's hard for me to believe without seeing it for myself. And 75 really isn't THAT fast, even at the park I see guys who can routinely hit 80-85 with subpar form. Also, I think I played MAYBE 2 players who didn't hit 75mph first serves this last season, and even their serves had insane movement and spin on them. Played a few guys who could break 100 without much effort as well. I think you're underrating how easy it is to hit a ball 75mph.
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