Hitting below the sweetspot - Optimum Contact Point for groundstroke

[5263]

He also says:

It is much better to hit closer to the edge, especially on groundstrokes.

ok, but the topic here was intent, not what is better.....
again, I'm not supporting this claim, just trying to be more accurate for a better discussion.

 

[rogerroger917]

ok, but the topic here was intent, not what is better.....
again, I'm not supporting this claim, just trying to be more accurate for a better discussion.

Oh stop. I got the cereal box mtm cert just like you did. Online. Easy.

Oscar saying anything about hitting the lower part to students will make the students try to hit the lower part. All the deep diving into intent and the other bs is just that. Bs

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[5263]

Oh stop. I got the cereal box mtm cert just like you did. Online. Easy.

Oscar saying anything about hitting the lower part to students will make the students try to hit the lower part. All the deep diving into intent and the other bs is just that. Bs

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lol, pretty funny just how the mention of Oscar gets some of you guys going. No need to worry, because you can learn what you like, or dislike from MTM , AND still maintain your own opinion on things....

 

[Shroud]

but quoting him in this thread from page 1......

I don't see any contradictions. What do you think happens when they learn? What do they learn if not to aim there?

 

[rogerroger917]

lol, pretty funny just how the mention of Oscar gets some of you guys going. No need to worry, because you can learn what you like, or dislike from MTM , AND still maintain your own opinion on things....

Do you have a google alert setup Oscar?

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[pencilcheck]

What miss hits are you talking about? I’m not advocating trying to hit off center just pointing out that that video of Fed shows him hitting most of those forehands slightly lower than the center. Do you really think that Fed miss hit that many shots in an easy hit around?

I am simply saying that it could be a camera illusion since the angle often throw people off and because the camera frame rate is low it doesn’t capture all the microsecond movement of the ball. If you really try to hit the ball off center which is not sweet spot you will feel the mishits and therefore Fed hits on the sweet spot otherwise you can see that his ball will just spray (Fed had done that in practice where he hit the net or fly to the audience stands)

 

[tlm]

I am simply saying that it could be a camera illusion since the angle often throw people off and because the camera frame rate is low it doesn’t capture all the microsecond movement of the ball. If you really try to hit the ball off center which is not sweet spot you will feel the mishits and therefore Fed hits on the sweet spot otherwise you can see that his ball will just spray (Fed had done that in practice where he hit the net or fly to the audience stands)

There is no camera illusion, I’ve watched many slo motion videos of different pro players and it’s common to see the ball contact slightly below center. Fed is not trying to hit off center and I never said that, I think it’s just because of his technique that the ball is hit below center many times. When you see the racket roll over right after contact it’s obvious the ball is hit lower on the string bed, and believe me Fed does not miss hit that many shots in a row during a casual hit around.

 

[pencilcheck]

There is no camera illusion, I’ve watched many slo motion videos of different pro players and it’s common to see the ball contact slightly below center. Fed is not trying to hit off center and I never said that, I think it’s just because of his technique that the ball is hit below center many times. When you see the racket roll over right after contact it’s obvious the ball is hit lower on the string bed, and believe me Fed does not miss hit that many shots in a row during a casual hit around.

how do you know there is no camera illusion? Try hitting in front of the mirror (or your own camera) and try look into the same angle as the camera, and see what you see if it matches what you imagine.

I have been fooled by camera so many times, a lot of things aren't the same as what you think when you actually do them in front of the mirror (or camera).

 

[tlm]

how do you know there is no camera illusion? Try hitting in front of the mirror (or your own camera) and try look into the same angle as the camera, and see what you see if it matches what you imagine.

I have been fooled by camera so many times, a lot of things aren't the same as what you think when you actually do them in front of the mirror (or camera).

Like I said I’ve watched many videos of pro players hitting topspin forehands and it’s very common for them to hit right below center. Is it just because you refuse to accept that they do hit below center? When you see the racket instantly roll over right after contact is a dead giveaway that the ball was hit below center. There is no illusion happening when you see that, but for some reason you would rather go by what you think instead of what your eyes are seeing.

 

[pencilcheck]

Like I said I’ve watched many videos of pro players hitting topspin forehands and it’s very common for them to hit right below center. Is it just because you refuse to accept that they do hit below center? When you see the racket instantly roll over right after contact is a dead giveaway that the ball was hit below center. There is no illusion happening when you see that, but for some reason you would rather go by what you think instead of what your eyes are seeing.

I said if it roll over usually it just means they didn’t hit clean and that is not ideal. Or you are saying that you should feel your racquet involuntarily rollover to hit topspin shots? Try go out to the tennis field, try hit the bottom of the racquet and try also brush up (or window wiper motion??) and see if you can sustain a consistent rally or match that way. I bet you will shank 100%. Don’t just keep saying and never tried it yourself.

 

[tlm]

I said if it roll over usually it just means they didn’t hit clean and that is not ideal. Or you are saying that you should feel your racquet involuntarily rollover to hit topspin shots? Try go out to the tennis field, try hit the bottom of the racquet and try also brush up (or window wiper motion??) and see if you can sustain a consistent rally or match that way. I bet you will shank 100%. Don’t just keep saying and never tried it yourself.

So your saying that Fed didn’t hit any of those forehands clean in an easy hit around when he is not rushed or under pressure? Lol. I never said that you should feel your racket rollover to hit topspin shots. I said that when you see Feds racket instantly rollover at contact it’s obvious that he hit the ball below center.

Just watch the video it’s clear as day shot after shot. Again for the thousand time I never said to try and hit below center. I just said that I have watched many pro players in slo motion and they seem to hit a high percentage of forehands just below center and I think it’s just a result of their swing technique. They are not intentionally trying to hit below center!

 

[Shroud]

Like I said I’ve watched many videos of pro players hitting topspin forehands and it’s very common for them to hit right below center. Is it just because you refuse to accept that they do hit below center? When you see the racket instantly roll over right after contact is a dead giveaway that the ball was hit below center. There is no illusion happening when you see that, but for some reason you would rather go by what you think instead of what your eyes are seeing.

I dont think it is a dead giveway. Ball is coming down and racquet is moving up and the racquet face is closed so even a center hit will cause the racquet to roll over. And i havent seen any vids where the frame rate is high enough where one can actually see impact and slide. Do a frame by frame and its clear that the frame rate isnt enough. Also feds stringbed is soft and the ball slides one it. So if the frame rate shows only the end of the contact it can easily lead to false conclusions

Said another way the impact could be dead on center but the frame rate could only show the part where the ball leaves the racquet and it will look like contact but contact happened earlier and you dont see it on the vid.

 

[tlm]

I dont think it is a dead giveway. Ball is coming down and racquet is moving up and the racquet face is closed so even a center hit will cause the racquet to roll over. And i havent seen any vids where the frame rate is high enough where one can actually see impact and slide. Do a frame by frame and its clear that the frame rate isnt enough. Also feds stringbed is soft and the ball slides one it. So if the frame rate shows only the end of the contact it can easily lead to false conclusions

Said another way the impact could be dead on center but the frame rate could only show the part where the ball leaves the racquet and it will look like contact but contact happened earlier and you dont see it on the vid.

When the ball is hit dead center or above center of the racket there is no sudden twisting. Don’t you think that shows the difference between hitting center and below center, no need for frame by frame to see that. In the video I showed most shots were hit below center and the racket quickly rolled over but on the few where he did hit center or slightly above the racket did not roll over.

I just watched video again and the last two forehands Fed hits are close to dead center and there is little to no rollover of the racket, but all the other ones there is a sudden rollover of his racket. I really believe that this shows very clearly that he hit those shots below center. Why else would his racket not rollover suddenly like in the other ones?

 

[Lukhas]

I recall watching a good explanation as to why. Sorry if it's a repost.

The short of it? If the twistweight of a given racquet is fairly moderate, it produces more spin when you hit horizontally below the sweetspot than when you hit straight into the sweetspot.

 

[tlm]

I recall watching a good explanation as to why. Sorry if it's a repost.

The short of it? If the twistweight of a given racquet is fairly moderate, it produces more spin when you hit horizontally below the sweetspot than when you hit straight into the sweetspot.

I have never watched that video, it is interesting and I did not know that swing weight can increase spin that much.

 

[pencilcheck]

I recall watching a good explanation as to why. Sorry if it's a repost.

The short of it? If the twistweight of a given racquet is fairly moderate, it produces more spin when you hit horizontally below the sweetspot than when you hit straight into the sweetspot.

That is very confusing to me when he mentioned that. How is the force applied? How is the swing done? Is it through a machine or human stroke? Is the ball having existing spin as well?

I liked how he mentioned that don't listen to media, but he himself has also certain messages that I am also not certain if that is 100% true as well. Since he is making a huge claim that it works on all circumstances and doesn't even care about those details.

I can hit the bottom of the racquet and have the ball hit with very little spin, or have the ball spin but have no pace, but is it ideal or even practical for a normal stroke? I don't think this vid is giving that conclusion at all. I would love to see him actually doing it on the court and film it, instead of just talking about it, just like how he talked about how the forum people just talk but dont know what they are talking about, he should actually do it so it is more convincing and useful.

Since he is making the claim, the burden of proof is on him.

 

[rogerroger917]

So your saying that Fed didn’t hit any of those forehands clean in an easy hit around when he is not rushed or under pressure? Lol. I never said that you should feel your racket rollover to hit topspin shots. I said that when you see Feds racket instantly rollover at contact it’s obvious that he hit the ball below center.

Just watch the video it’s clear as day shot after shot. Again for the thousand time I never said to try and hit below center. I just said that I have watched many pro players in slo motion and they seem to hit a high percentage of forehands just below center and I think it’s just a result of their swing technique. They are not intentionally trying to hit below center!

Racket angle closed. Slightly upward swing path. It will hit center and roll down. Or hit slightly below at times. Will need super high speed video. The sweet spot is prob a 4 inch circle. So can be above or below dead center. Oscar says to try to hit bottom of strings. He is an idiot. Relegated to coaching on cracked ghetto courts.

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[Lukhas]

That is very confusing to me when he mentioned that. How is the force applied? How is the swing done? Is it through a machine or human stroke? Is the ball having existing spin as well?

The source of his claims are in the description of the video, including the testing methodology as well as the book(s) he mentions in the video. He used to post here, but hasn't in a while. The user name was RanchDressing.

 

[5263]

Racket angle closed. Slightly upward swing path. It will hit center and roll down. Or hit slightly below at times. Will need super high speed video. The sweet spot is prob a 4 inch circle. So can be above or below dead center. Oscar says to try to hit bottom of strings. He is an idiot. Relegated to coaching on cracked ghetto courts.

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JY says the ball can't roll down....

 

[rogerroger917]

JY says the ball can't roll down....

It doesn't roll but the strings bend. There is actually superhigh speed video on tw learning center showing it. The normal videos on YouTube etc... don't show this. It is surprising how much the ball imbeds and bends the strings down. So it looks lower before it leaves the strings.

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[Shroud]

I have never watched that video, it is interesting and I did not know that swing weight can increase spin that much.

It does IME BUT you wouldn't like it. It flattens the trajectory and well it doesn't LOOK like spin no matter where you hit it. Take a spinny shot and a fast flat shot and put them together.

 

[tlm]

It does IME BUT you wouldn't like it. It flattens the trajectory and well it doesn't LOOK like spin no matter where you hit it. Take a spinny shot and a fast flat shot and put them together.

Well that might work for me because I need to flatten the trajectory out more. Once in a while I will hit a few ground strokes with my buddies Fed racket and I notice that l get more power and my topspin jumps higher with more force, but I have a harder time controlling the depth of my shots because of the added power from the heavier racket.

 

[sureshs]

JY says the ball can't roll down....

I rolls down very little, may a couple of mm. But the deformation bulges downwards.

 

[Shroud]

OMG. ITs TRUE! Not only do they actively aim for the bottom, one player strings his racquet so one side is tighter than the rest:

Clearly it is strung to have the "bottom" side play better.

 

[pencilcheck]

OMG. ITs TRUE! Not only do they actively aim for the bottom, one player strings his racquet so one side is tighter than the rest:

Clearly it is strung to have the "bottom" side play better.

Where does it say that in the vid? Also how do you know this is legit or just titled for clickbait?