Hitting Lower Trajectory-Video

I've been working on hitting a lower trajectory for when I have an open court. I still hit high looping shots when rallying but need to improve putting ball away.
Are you trying to hit more winners [either the opponent can't touch or the ball doesn't come back] or more forceful setup shots? I'm not big on "more winners" because it will usually also lead to more errors; rather, I try to hit more aggressively to the same big target and treat it like a setup shot that generates a weak reply when I can move in. If it happens to be a winner, so much the better. But it's not my priority.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Are you trying to hit more winners [either the opponent can't touch or the ball doesn't come back] or more forceful setup shots? I'm not big on "more winners" because it will usually also lead to more errors; rather, I try to hit more aggressively to the same big target and treat it like a setup shot that generates a weak reply when I can move in. If it happens to be a winner, so much the better. But it's not my priority.
I want to be able to put the ball away when I get the open court.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
man, i know you are working very hard but somehow you still look lazy.
I filmed at the end after hitting 300 ground strokes in 105 heat index, and yes I was being lazy by that time.

When I get tired I just work on the stroke technique in a lazy way as shown here.
 

NuBas

Legend
I personally think you would benefit from a slower swing. Also try to hit the ball with as little effort as possible it takes to get ball over the net. You do not need that much energy to expend to get the ball to fly fast or hard.
 
I have moved it more towards Hawaiin in the last year or so, I can hit more consistent with it.
Yes but that grip makes it harder to put the ball away. I don't have a great putaway forehand either because of my grip, but I'm three quarters to full western, not almost Hawaiian.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I personally think you would benefit from a slower swing. Also try to hit the ball with as little effort as possible it takes to get ball over the net. You do not need that much energy to expend to get the ball to fly fast or hard.
Your probably right and I have tried to loosen up the arm and that seemed to help. But a slower swing no does not work well for me.
 

Doc Hollidae

Hall of Fame
I personally think you would benefit from a slower swing. Also try to hit the ball with as little effort as possible it takes to get ball over the net. You do not need that much energy to expend to get the ball to fly fast or hard.
He'd have to change his grip as well then. With that extreme of a grip, you need to have a faster swing speed than other forehand grips.
 

Vanhalen

Professional
Hey Tim. You are a strong fit guy. I’m sure you’ve tried before but an Eastern or SW grip would make your shots consistent and very very tough to deal with for your opponents.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
I filmed at the end after hitting 300 ground strokes in 105 heat index, and yes I was being lazy by that time.

When I get tired I just work on the stroke technique in a lazy way as shown here.
your stroke is fine... it's footwork that needs the attention.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
I personally think you would benefit from a slower swing. Also try to hit the ball with as little effort as possible it takes to get ball over the net. You do not need that much energy to expend to get the ball to fly fast or hard.
IMO he jjust needs a shorter backswing.
and practice making contact with 1 or both feet inside the court, follow into net.

the extreme western grips in general, promote a, "hang out at the baseline until you make a mistake" style of game... personally that's why i switched from hawaiian to SW, to make it easier to drive the ball on short balls. but depends on your personality (ie. i like dictating and controlling, even if it means i make more errors, but hopefully my winers/err ratio is better than my opponent)
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I personally think you would benefit from a slower swing. Also try to hit the ball with as little effort as possible it takes to get ball over the net. You do not need that much energy to expend to get the ball to fly fast or hard.
I agree, but not sure this would work for him, he seems to use a bent arm and all his stroke speed comes mainly from rotating his body into the ball, he is not really used to hitting with a fluid kinetic chain type of swing with alot of lag and release like Federer.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
@tlm alot of your shots are still with a very high arc and too much spinny too little penetration, but of course it takes alot of practice to master something, I would however advise you to try to lower the trajectory, even if you hit the ball into the net more than you want, try to exagerate to get the feeling.

The shot at 0:24 is your best one, really good one, focus on hitting like that, has nice arc and penetration.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Hey Tim. You are a strong fit guy. I’m sure you’ve tried before but an Eastern or SW grip would make your shots consistent and very very tough to deal with for your opponents.
I have tried Eastern grip when I first started tennis and i could never get it to work for me. I was using a SW grip in the past and had some success with it but over the years have kept closing the racket more and because of the consistency and freedom to swing away with this grip I have stayed with it.
 

NuBas

Legend
I agree, but not sure this would work for him, he seems to use a bent arm and all his stroke speed comes mainly from rotating his body into the ball, he is not really used to hitting with a fluid kinetic chain type of swing with alot of lag and release like Federer.
If OP can hit like that avoiding injuries and enjoys his game then good for him. I would personally try to hit differently.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
@tlm alot of your shots are still with a very high arc and too much spinny too little penetration, but of course it takes alot of practice to master something, I would however advise you to try to lower the trajectory, even if you hit the ball into the net more than you want, try to exagerate to get the feeling.

The shot at 0:24 is your best one, really good one, focus on hitting like that, has nice arc and penetration.
Ya there were a couple that I liked that were hit with lower trajectory but most still have a little to much arc. The coach I’ve been working with told me to aim for the net like your suggesting especially on windy days when my high trajectory shots are going long.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
IMO he jjust needs a shorter backswing.
and practice making contact with 1 or both feet inside the court, follow into net.

the extreme western grips in general, promote a, "hang out at the baseline until you make a mistake" style of game... personally that's why i switched from hawaiian to SW, to make it easier to drive the ball on short balls. but depends on your personality (ie. i like dictating and controlling, even if it means i make more errors, but hopefully my winers/err ratio is better than my opponent)
Do you think a shorter backswing would help? Your right about working on footwork more.
 
Wouldn't mess with the backswing, it is alright . You are hitting pretty good, however there isn't much coming from the lower body. Good upper body turn however the lower body is just along for the ride, being pulled around by the upper body.

Try to get into your right leg and hip more and then turn the hips to the net while keeping the front shoulder in. That way you should have a little more stretch in the oblique and you don't turn so some with the upper body but instead have a feel of snapping the chest open in the very last second. That should give you more batspeed and power.

Currently you do a good turn but the left shoulder starts to open up before the hips, so any hip turn you do is just cosmetic.
 
Maybe try a more open stance.

Drill: stand next to the back fence, with parallel feet and the right foot closer to the fence (body perpendicular to the fence).
Then you turn your upper body and reach across with the left arm and you grab the fence, actually behind you. At the same time you bend your right leg and hip, sitting into that hip and cooling around it and then you drive off the back leg and turn the belt buckle toward the target while holding on to the fence. You should feel the stretch now, replicate in hitting.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Do you think a shorter backswing would help? Your right about working on footwork more.
in general, the closer you get to the net, the shortening the backswing,
a) helps with timing (you have less of it)
b) helps with controlling pace... a fast swing from a short backswing reduces rhs, without feeling like you're "slowing down you're stroke" (think pinball plunger pulled back half way)

alternatively, you can still try to take a very fast swing on an inside the court short ball, but that takes quite alot of timing and practice... but the advantage is you can get the ball "up and down" quicker with more topspin,... vs. "pseudo placeing it" with a half swing groundie... but don't be surprised if you shank alot.

helps to know both techniques, as there are times you will have time, and times that you won't have time... or something in the middle :p
 
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FiReFTW

Legend
in general, the closer you get to the net, the shortening the backswing,
a) helps with timing (you have less of it)
b) helps with controlling pace... a fast swing from a short backswing reduces rhs, without feeling like you're "slowing down you're stroke" (think pinball plunger pulled back half way)

alternatively, you can still try to take a very fast swing on an inside the court short ball, but that takes quite alot of timing and practice... but the advantage is you can get the ball "up and down" quicker with more topspin,... vs. "pseudo placeing it" with a half swing groundie... but don't be surprised if you shank alot.

helps to know both techniques, as there are times you will have time, and times that you won't have time... or something in the middle :p
Interesting take, personaly don't shorten the backswing close to the net if I have enough time to do a normal backswing.
 

steve s

Professional
You seem to get almost no racquet lag, then you yank up with a bent arm, most of your RHS comes very late in the stroke.

If it works for you, all is good.

You look very strong, so do not hurt me.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
You seem to get almost no racquet lag, then you yank up with a bent arm, most of your RHS comes very late in the stroke.

If it works for you, all is good.

You look very strong, so do not hurt me.
What do you mean by no racket lag?
 

Slicerman

Semi-Pro
IMO, I think you're actually hitting with too much topspin. Hitting a "lower" trajectory doesn't help with your current stroke because it lands short, which won't work well as a putaway ball unless you're going for sharp angles. If you want to hit through the court then you need to flatten the ball more. It's the only way to hit a low trajectory shot AND land deep at the same time.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
IMO, I think you're actually hitting with too much topspin. Hitting a "lower" trajectory doesn't help with your current stroke because it lands short, which won't work well as a putaway ball unless you're going for sharp angles. If you want to hit through the court then you need to flatten the ball more. It's the only way to hit a low trajectory shot AND land deep at the same time.
He uses a super extreme grip, I suspect that might be a bit challenging.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
IMO, I think you're actually hitting with too much topspin. Hitting a "lower" trajectory doesn't help with your current stroke because it lands short, which won't work well as a putaway ball unless you're going for sharp angles. If you want to hit through the court then you need to flatten the ball more. It's the only way to hit a low trajectory shot AND land deep at the same time.

I see your point but I think if I can lower the trajectory when I have an open side of the court then I will take time away from opponent. Sometimes by the ball not going as deep can be an advantage and especially creating angles like you mentioned.

Many times when I get the open court I put to much loop in the shot which gives to much time for opponent to recover. So I believe if I can lower trajectory more in those times it will work to my advantage.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
He does have racket lag. Stop worrying about micro moves of the arm abd wrist when the real problem is that he is not using the bottom half of the kinetic chain. Swing should be built from the ground up, not vice versa.
That’s why I asked because I thought I had some racket lag. But I think your right about not using the lower body enough.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Interesting take, personaly don't shorten the backswing close to the net if I have enough time to do a normal backswing.
hehe, well, as your opponent, i'm doing everything i can to make you not have enough time :p
if you're so fast, that you always have time to take a full swing... more power to you,...
let's say i hit a good ball, that you're slicing back... i know it's gonna be short, just don't know how short... sometimes i rob myself of time, by getting too close, and forces me to hit a half back stroke fh (ie. enough time where i don't have to hit a half volley/volley, but not enough time that i can take a full backswing)..
anywho, my $0,02.
lots of ways to solve that problem:
* go to net less often (ie. only go in when you can take a full stroke approach shot)
* half volley
* slice
 

Slicerman

Semi-Pro
I see your point but I think if I can lower the trajectory when I have an open side of the court then I will take time away from opponent. Sometimes by the ball not going as deep can be an advantage and especially creating angles like you mentioned.

Many times when I get the open court I put to much loop in the shot which gives to much time for opponent to recover. So I believe if I can lower trajectory more in those times it will work to my advantage.
Yeah. It really depends on your intention and where you want to aim. If you have very accurate shots then you can use short angles to your advantage, but could also be punished if you don't manage to hit enough angle, which is also something to consider.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
hehe, well, as your opponent, i'm doing everything i can to make you not have enough time :p
if you're so fast, that you always have time to take a full swing... more power to you,...
let's say i hit a good ball, that you're slicing back... i know it's gonna be short, just don't know how short... sometimes i rob myself of time, by getting too close, and forces me to hit a half back stroke fh (ie. enough time where i don't have to hit a half volley/volley, but not enough time that i can take a full backswing)..
anywho, my $0,02.
lots of ways to solve that problem:
* go to net less often (ie. only go in when you can take a full stroke approach shot)
* half volley
* slice
Thats true when you are out of time you have to shorten the swing, sometimes it almost feels like almost no backswing, you know on those short net balls that you barely get too but jump high enough so that you can almost just place the racquet behind the ball swat them.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
I agree, but not sure this would work for him, he seems to use a bent arm and all his stroke speed comes mainly from rotating his body into the ball, he is not really used to hitting with a fluid kinetic chain type of swing with alot of lag and release like Federer.
Woh woh, where did you come to the conclusion that “bent arm” was anti “fluid kinetic chain”. I have a bent arm AND lag and my kinetic chain is pretty sweet (I was told by a coach the other day my FH was similar to Nadal’s but without the chopper finish) so I’m concerned that your statement is interpreted as truth when it’s not! Sorry
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
TLM due to the nature of your grip and swing your shot is always going to have some loop so I wouldn’t worry about trajectory so much.

But for what you are doing it looks like you are burning a lot of effort on every stroke. I don’t know why or what it is - I DO know you can hit harder and win more spin (believe it or not) with LESS effort. That is what I would work on.

Trajectory? BS. You have a solid stroke, I’d concentrate on the above and how to use it in a match
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Woh woh, where did you come to the conclusion that “bent arm” was anti “fluid kinetic chain”. I have a bent arm AND lag and my kinetic chain is pretty sweet (I was told by a coach the other day my FH was similar to Nadal’s but without the chopper finish) so I’m concerned that your statement is interpreted as truth when it’s not! Sorry
Straight arm is a bit more loose and fluid since you have a longer lever, but i didnt say bent arm cant be, but the OP hits completely different, he uses more force and muscle behind his shots, and in another thread he said he wont change because its working well for him.

It would also be quite a big change for him and I doubt he has the patience for that.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
TLM due to the nature of your grip and swing your shot is always going to have some loop so I wouldn’t worry about trajectory so much.

But for what you are doing it looks like you are burning a lot of effort on every stroke. I don’t know why or what it is - I DO know you can hit harder and win more spin (believe it or not) with LESS effort. That is what I would work on.

Trajectory? BS. You have a solid stroke, I’d concentrate on the above and how to use it in a match

Your right I am putting a lot of effort into my strokes and I do need to work on getting more power and spin with less effort.
 
Something looks very wrong with this stroke.

It reminds me of a rubber band powered toy where you pull /twist it, to load it up, then let it go, and it snaps forward.
Like a catapult or something.

You're wild and it seems very inefficient
Does this stroke work in match play when balls aren't sitters from a machine ?

You're also late on some of these balls, and going wide (on a slow ball machine feed)

I think your racket prep is late and slow (I have had the same issue, so I see it)
You wait and integrate your slow backswing prep into your swing.
This is why you are rushed, even for the slowest balls.

The swings at :43 and 1:02 seemed the most natural and not forced
 

Curious

Legend
Something looks very wrong with this stroke.

It reminds me of a rubber band powered toy where you pull /twist it, to load it up, then let it go, and it snaps forward.
Like a catapult or something.

You're wild and it seems very inefficient
Does this stroke work in match play when balls aren't sitters from a machine ?

You're also late on some of these balls, and going wide (on a slow ball machine feed)

I think your racket prep is late and slow (I have had the same issue, so I see it)
You wait and integrate your slow backswing prep into your swing.
This is why you are rushed, even for the slowest balls.

The swings at :43 and 1:02 seemed the most natural and not forced
I never get bored of watching this junior's videos. Excellent early preparation, lightning fast unit turn.

 
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Deleted member 716271

Guest
I think OP has it set up so he can whale on the ball and keep it in play. There's a comfort in that. Very extreme grip and 70 lbs in the crosses.

But makes for very laborious looking shots.
 
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