Honestly, Novak is harder to beat than ever.

topher

Hall of Fame
Novak has a great serve and return, so there’s no easy points. You have to consistently play high quality tennis and he’s the only one with that ability over 5 sets atm.

Brooksby showed a bit how slicing to Novak’s BH is still a good strategy to neutralize that weapon. His FH can be erratic this tournament, so you have to take advantage when that happens. But like Zverev in 2nd and 3rd set today, you can’t be on a mental walkabout when Novak is handing or trying to hand you free points. They won’t come often.
 
I said that a couple days ago lol
Not exactly though.

Once Z started actually attacking in the 4th set, Novak looked subpar, God knows why Z went for playing ping pong in the 5th when he was actually blowing away Djokovic in the 4th.

Present Djokovic is outstanding, but he is not facing quality attack. Shapo actually outplayed his in 2 sets at WB and he looked jarred at times.
 

Sunny014

Legend
There is nothing called perfect tennis in this world.

Younger guys are supposed to be faster than old guys in 30s, should produce higher levels and those levels should be sustained over 5 sets. More speed of youth and more power gives less reaction time to the old and hence errors from them will come. That is the rule of tennis and life.

If this is not happening then something wrong with youngsters.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Not exactly though.

Once Z started actually attacking in the 4th set, Novak looked subpar, God knows why Z went for playing ping pong in the 5th when he was actually blowing away Djokovic in the 4th.

Present Djokovic is outstanding, but he is not facing quality attack. Shapo actually outplayed his in 2 sets at WB and he looked jarred at times.
Djokovic always looks subpar lol I'm over it
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
What is the game plan exactly? What do you attack? There is no exploitable weakness that lasts longer than a point or two. Seriously, how does one beat him anymore?
Mac said Djoker is now one of the best clutch servers. Better than Fed. He held his own against Zed's great serve.

So look what you are dealing with when his serve is on:
GOAT return
GOAT backhand
GOAT forehand
GOAT serve
GOAT fitness and flexibility
GOAT mental game
Solid volleys and droppers
Decent to solid overhead.

Has lost speed with age but experience and improved serve offsets that.
 
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TennisFan3

G.O.A.T.
TTW goes about peak this and prime that. But the reality is Novak IS playing the BEST Tennis of his life.
He is HARDER to beat than EVER.
He has improved his SERVE (drastically), forehand, drop shots, net play, variety etc. There are no holes in his game. You beat him one way - he will get you a different way.
Plus his mental strength and will to win is superhuman.

Everyone would struggle against this Novak. Nadal and Fed included.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
TTW goes about peak this and prime that. But the reality is Novak IS playing the BEST Tennis of his life.
He is HARDER to beat than EVER.
He has improved his SERVE (drastically), forehand, drop shots, net play, variety etc. There are no holes in his game. You beat him one way - he will get you a different way.
Plus his mental strength and will to win is superhuman.

Everyone would struggle against this Novak. Nadal and Fed included.
He's definitely not harder to beat than ever. He just knows there's never been people less capable.
 

Shaj

Semi-Pro
Variety is his downfall..But in todays game nobody has that variety barring Fed,Thiem..That's the reason Novak could never break free of Federer..His variety..

Feeding him power will play into his hands..He just feeds on power..He has wrecked the career of power players like Berdych Tsonga..So..
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic always looks subpar lol I'm over it
So true. He looks subpar for one set in 3 or in two for 5, but what he does in the other sets you just have to see to believe. Nadal was always the same on clay when he was not at his peak but still winning there. That's what makes tennis nearly unique. In a 5 set match you can play like crap in two of them and still win. Guys like the top players know that, and they pace themselves. The younger players need to learn from that and play the long game.
 

canta_Brian

Professional
Mac said Djoker is now one of the best clutch servers. Better than Fed. He held his own against Zed's great serve.

So look what you are dealing with when his serve is on:
GOAT return
GOAT backhand
GOAT forehand
GOAT serve
GOAT fitness and flexibility
GOAT mental game
Solid volleys and droppers
Decent to solid overhead.

Has lost speed with age but experience and improved serve offsets that.
GOAT return - Fair enough
GOAT backhand - Requires 2 hands so no
GOAT forehand - Lol. Pushers might agree with you
GOAT serve - Are you off your meds?
GOAT fitness and flexibility - Not suspicious at all
GOAT mental game - No anger issues at all
Solid volleys and droppers - Huh, have got the right guy?
Decent to solid overhead. - DJOKOSMASH

Apart from those points, good post.
 

gadge

Professional
No one has the serve return combo like he does so you don’t get anything easy. He doesn’t have the same speed or the relentless grinding anymore but his improved serve, volleys and drops make up for a little bit. Either you play lights out tennis without missing like wawa does or grind him down without choking but none of the youngsters have the legs to grind down Novak yet.
 

gadge

Professional
Today he won every point at the net.. and people said he can't play volleys :laughing:
He’s one of the best at the net right now and that’s not an exaggeration.
interesting how Novak kept changing his game with time by adding new members to his team and adding more to his game while nadal pretty much stayed the same.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Today he won every point at the net.. and people said he can't play volleys :laughing:
Truth. Beautiful net play from our Djoker. A rarity among players these days.

And the ninnyhammer babbling on about Edberg fails to understand that today's players have to deal with far more difficult passing shots as a result of modern equipment and strings. That is why players seldom come to the net.

Just look at Zed and Med hanging out at the back fence.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
Isn't Thiem 1-1 in 5 set matches, and with the win at RG at the time he was pretty close to peak? That's not what I would call "consistently" beating another player.
He had won 3 of his last 4 meetings against Djokovic.. Beaten him twice in a slam and has come the closest anyone has come to beating Djokovic in an Aus Open final. One of the few players who can overpower him amd go toe to toe other than Wawrinka. At 28 years and having won the USO last year he should have been at his near peak, instead he got injured and barely played this year.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
No one has the serve return combo like he does so you don’t get anything easy. He doesn’t have the same speed or the relentless grinding anymore but his improved serve, volleys and drops make up for a little bit. Either you play lights out tennis without missing like wawa does or grind him down without choking but none of the youngsters have the legs to grind down Novak yet.
Think Medvevev does have the legs to grind him but doesn't have the power of his groundies to consistently hit winners
 

T007

Hall of Fame
Novak has a great serve and return, so there’s no easy points. You have to consistently play high quality tennis and he’s the only one with that ability over 5 sets atm.

Brooksby showed a bit how slicing to Novak’s BH is still a good strategy to neutralize that weapon. His FH can be erratic this tournament, so you have to take advantage when that happens. But like Zverev in 2nd and 3rd set today, you can’t be on a mental walkabout when Novak is handing or trying to hand you free points. They won’t come often.
Best thing is grab your opportunities when given. Had Zverev converted those 2 break points and 2 all in 3rd set the match could have been over in 4. In the 3rd set djokovic was not playing his best and was struggling.
 

T007

Hall of Fame
Think Medvevev does have the legs to grind him but doesn't have the power of his groundies to consistently hit winners
But onething medvedev does great is that he doesn't gives you the pace to redirect shots in a long rally. So if djokovic wants to close a rally he has to take risk and go for outright winners. Something he is not that good at.
 

canta_Brian

Professional
Truth. Beautiful net play from our Djoker. A rarity among players these days.

And the ninnyhammer babbling on about Edberg fails to understand that today's players have to deal with far more difficult passing shots as a result of modern equipment and strings. That is why players seldom come to the net.

Just look at Zed and Med hanging out at the back fence.
Always with the personal abuse.

Putting away the final point of a baseline rally at the net doesn’t make you a great volleyer. Fed and Nadal both volley far better, you can see this when they have played doubles.

Just FYI, the reference to Edberg was to educate. Regardless of tech, he was hitting volleys from below the height of the net that still rushed players on the baseline. He set up points with volleys rather than just finishing them.

Excusing modern players due to poly just shows a lack of knowledge about the game that comes from too much watching and too little playing at a decent level.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
What is the game plan exactly? What do you attack? There is no exploitable weakness that lasts longer than a point or two. Seriously, how does one beat him anymore?
Nole has to be unmotivated for the most part to even sniff a win these days! He loses smaller events, making the YEC Final again and again! It hasn't meant as much as he's lost a bunch of finals starting in 2016 against Murray! He needed that final win a couple times to retain his #1 ranking! It was BO3 and his heart hasn't been in it of late dropping RR matches and then finals to the NG'rs! Even Masters wins have lost their luster with him barely holding the #1 ranking with 3 Majors and a 4th final Sunday! He really needs to perform this FALL to end as YE #1 for a record 7th time! Majors are his only reason for staying in the game now! He may drop to #2 or #3 eventually, but will take a Major or 2 for the next few years with any luck! If Fed can do it, Nole certainly can! :cautious:
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
But onething medvedev does great is that he doesn't gives you the pace to redirect shots in a long rally. So if djokovic wants to close a rally he has to take risk and go for outright winners. Something he is not that good at.
You're kidding? Tell that to NG'rs out there pounding the ball as Nole retrieves and many times returns the ball with interest knocking them off their feet! :-D
 

gadge

Professional
Think Medvevev does have the legs to grind him but doesn't have the power of his groundies to consistently hit winners
Yup medvedev is too passive and his serve can’t carry him through the match against Novak but unlike AO this time it’s gonna be a slugfest
 

T007

Hall of Fame
You're kidding? Tell that to NG'rs out there pounding the ball as Nole retrieves and many times returns the ball with interest knocking them off their feet! :-D
Lol his avg ground strokes all below 80 Mph. I have never seen him hit 80 winners in a match. This year he barely crossed 50 in a long 5 setter with tsitsi.

He has low UFEs because he doesn't goes for too much winners rather chooses to grind his opponent.
 

Fiero425

Hall of Fame
Not exactly though.

Once Z started actually attacking in the 4th set, Novak looked subpar, God knows why Z went for playing ping pong in the 5th when he was actually blowing away Djokovic in the 4th.

Present Djokovic is outstanding, but he is not facing quality attack. Shapo actually outplayed his in 2 sets at WB and he looked jarred at times.
Many players have outplayed Novak in spurts; esp. when you hear about him coming back from 0-2 down in multiple matches at the FO this year! It's been said, Novak hasn't really been that good all year, that his winning is more about a weak era (which is BS)! But the thing is, he FINDS A WAY! His Wimbledon victory wasn't ever in question; esp. when Fedal didn't show up (wimps)! Novak's saving grace has been BO5 because most players can't keep up that high a level of tennis for 3-4 hours! :sneaky:
 

Amen786

Semi-Pro
Many players have outplayed Novak in spurts; esp. when you hear about him coming back from 0-2 down in multiple matches at the FO this year! It's been said, Novak hasn't really been that good all year, that his winning is more about a weak era (which is BS)! But the thing is, he FINDS A WAY! His Wimbledon victory wasn't ever in question; esp. when Fedal didn't show up (wimps)! Novak's saving grace has been BO5 because most players can't keep up that high a level of tennis for 3-4 hours! :sneaky:
No taking away credits from novak but this is as weak of an era as it can be.
Youngster players getting outhit & out grinded by veterans is never really a strong era.
But this does not take away any credits from the mental fortress novak Djokovic
 

toby55555

Hall of Fame
First thing is to lose the first set and upset Novak’s current strategy of lulling opponents, lull him instead and then go all out. If really confident lose the second set too, preferably badly trying to lower Novak’s guard even more.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
The only way to beat Novak is to go full attack mode like Zverev did at the olympics. For this to happen, the opponent needs to be careless about winning or losing. Zverev yesterday cared too much. He was being too careful. Medvedev is capable of both states of mind. Novak is not unbeatable. His opponents are beating themselves.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Djokovic also plays close to the baseline unlike Zverev, and particularly Medvedev, and that takes time away from his opponents.
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
His shots down the line, off both wings, will expose anyone, and are deadlier than ever.

That's why I laugh when people say Zverev, or Nishikori or Agassi, have backhands just as good, or better, than Djokovic. That's probably true for standard rallies, but not in running combat.
 

Tostao80

Rookie
TTW goes about peak this and prime that. But the reality is Novak IS playing the BEST Tennis of his life.
He is HARDER to beat than EVER.
He has improved his SERVE (drastically), forehand, drop shots, net play, variety etc. There are no holes in his game. You beat him one way - he will get you a different way.
Plus his mental strength and will to win is superhuman.

Everyone would struggle against this Novak. Nadal and Fed included.
Stop going overboard. 2021 Novak is not better than 2011 Novak. The competition is quiet simply not at the same level. Who, in 2021 is at the level of Rafa 2011?
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
The only way to beat Novak is to go full attack mode like Zverev did at the olympics. For this to happen, the opponent needs to be careless about winning or losing. Zverev yesterday cared too much. He was being too careful. Medvedev is capable of both states of mind. Novak is not unbeatable. His opponents are beating themselves.
No. You are making it sound like that they and they alone are the reasons they are losing and would win the match otherwise. Djokovic makes you feel his presence on the court, and no player is more mentally stronger and more clutch. Zverev himself said after the match that the only player he would not want to play in tight moments is Djokovic because of his mental strength.
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
What is the game plan exactly? What do you attack? There is no exploitable weakness that lasts longer than a point or two. Seriously, how does one beat him anymore?
Most try to beat him by "outrallying" which is futile unless he's below par. Mixing up play is very effective. You need to have a big serve, big forehand, effective slice and a quality net game. I can't think of any nextgen player that has all of them ticked. Slice troubles him a lot as Dan Evans showed.

Thiem was nearly there apart from his net game but he is AWOL taking a dump in the bushes.
 

Sunny014

Legend
No. You are making it sound like that they and they alone are the reasons they are losing and would win the match otherwise. Djokovic makes you feel his presence on the court, and no player is more mentally stronger and more clutch. Zverev himself said after the match that the only player he would not want to play in tight moments is Djokovic because of his mental strength.
So this proves that Zverev is a weak willed pansy as far as his mentality goes.
If it was young Novak in his place then young Novak would have maybe tried to play his own mindgames with Old Novak or he would just be silent and focus on court
This guy Zverev in the back of his mind considers Novak superior, that is why he has to mention that he doesn't wanna play Novak, this is a sign of a weakling which he exhibited.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
So this proves that Zverev is a weak willed pansy as far as his mentality goes.
If it was young Novak in his place then young Novak would have maybe tried to play his own mindgames with Old Novak or he would just be silent and focus on court
This guy Zverev in the back of his mind considers Novak superior, that is why he has to mention that he doesn't wanna play Novak, this is a sign of a weakling which he exhibited.
In the tight moments, I think everyone considers Novak superior right now, Fedal included. They've all seen what he has done at the most crucial moments of some of the biggest matches time and time again and that does weigh on the mind. He is not alone in that boat.
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
I didn't watch the match as I'm in the UK - match starts well past midnight. But you could see from that 53 rally point. That's just stupid. Zv is not as fit as Novak. He should've mixed up play by slicing or coming to the net or attacking a short ball. Kudos to him for 5 sets and 53 shot rally but you've got to beat him with a different tactic.

Can he slice and play more attacking though? I doubt it.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
No. You are making it sound like that they and they alone are the reasons they are losing and would win the match otherwise. Djokovic makes you feel his presence on the court, and no player is more mentally stronger and more clutch. Zverev himself said after the match that the only player he would not want to play in tight moments is Djokovic because of his mental strength.
Yes and no. Both Zverev and Medvedev are capable of beating him if they play well. And certainly he’s very difficult to beat in the same time. You make it sound as if he’s unbeatable, which is not true.
 

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
Not exactly though.

Once Z started actually attacking in the 4th set, Novak looked subpar, God knows why Z went for playing ping pong in the 5th when he was actually blowing away Djokovic in the 4th.

Present Djokovic is outstanding, but he is not facing quality attack. Shapo actually outplayed his in 2 sets at WB and he looked jarred at times.
Nerves take away the ability to think rationally. He probably had the mindset of not going for too much, afraid of making errrors. He paid for that lack of confidence and not following the game plan with the 1st break, then choked and that was all she wrote.

Then again, had he served better throughout, not even out of mind but to his ability, he might not have needed a 5th set. Had the game, but mentally was not up to task.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
I didn't watch the match as I'm in the UK - match starts well past midnight. But you could see from that 53 rally point. That's just stupid. Zv is not as fit as Novak. He should've mixed up play by slicing or coming to the net or attacking a short ball. Kudos to him for 5 sets and 53 shot rally but you've got to beat him with a different tactic.

Can he slice and play more attacking though? I doubt it.
He can crush the ball as he has done before. He was just too scared of losing/over hitting.
 

Sunny014

Legend
In the tight moments, I think everyone considers Novak superior right now, Fedal included. They've all seen what he has done at the most crucial moments of some of the biggest matches time and time again and that does weigh on the mind. He is not alone in that boat.
That is what separates a true champion from a mug.

Sorry to say that all the youngsters are mugs, each and every one of them, this is an evolutionary thing, social media has made them all losers, growing up in the 90s or 00s in some village or in a small town would have been better, or in some war torn country

These entitled buffoons are still in awe of the big 3 and of Novak, Novak has already eaten his share of the pie in his youth and is now eating Zverev's share of the pie and it doesn't bother him enough ??? Thats why he is choking, it is all in the mind.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Yes and no. Both Zverev and Medvedev are capable of beating him if they play well. And certainly he’s very difficult to beat in the same time. You make it sound as if he’s unbeatable, which is not true.
I never said he is unbeatable, I've even been saying that I didn't even have him as a lock over Zverev or Medvedev here. But here is the thing, he is the best big match player now arguably of all time just because of what he has done, and you can thank Fedal for that, for making him who he is. They of course can beat him, but saying that all his opponents beat themselves is disrespectful to both them and Novak....he isn't just there like a lamb waiting to be slaughtered, and all of a sudden everyone becomes an animal lover.
 
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