Honestly, why is Federer so mentally weak against Nadal?

G

Graf=GOAT

Professional
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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That pretty much sums it up perfectly the way I think too. Thank you!!
 
tennisaddict said:
1135 matches takes its toll on movement and fitness.

Federer is a fraction of the player he was in 2004-06
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When you have watched the match today you should have concluded that this loss got nothing to do with lack of movement and fitness. Nadal did play pretty subpar today. Federer got tons of half court sitters to take advantage of, but most of them he dumped in the net or put them wide or long. He had ages to set up for those shots. He just couldn't make them. It was pretty painful to watch.
 
People dont give nadal enough credit for his talent.

Yes, federer's talent is more finesse oriented but nadal can create angles like few in history and his hand-eye is insane considering the amount of spin he hits.

nobody is better on the run on both sides than rafael nadal. His strength on the stretch is almost herculean.
 
hawk eye said:
When you have watched the match today you should have concluded that this loss got nothing to do with lack of movement and fitness. Nadal did play pretty subpar today. Federer got tons of half court sitters to take advantage of, but most of them dumped then in the net or put them wide or long. He had ages to set up for those shots. He just couldn't make them. It was pretty painfull to watch.
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Precisely. The problem is 100% mental. Nadal seems to get more annoyed and more determined when he's losing to Federer. When Federer is losing to Nadal, he has that resigned look on his face. It's disgusting.
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
 
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Well, no one is perfect. Every player has it's flaws and Fed's is that he is a hopeless choker against Nadal. Some of the shots that he hit today were completely amateur, like the slice that he hit to Nadal's forehand which he followed into the net, only to get passed and eventually broken in the 1st set. He could have ripped that backhand down the line, but no he completely lost it.
 
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This was a chance for Fed to get a big win on Nadal (in his own backyard) where the conditions are PERFECT for Fed's game and this is the display he puts forth?

Dumping EASY shots into the net, getting broke easily, barely putting up a fight in the 2nd set etc.

32 yada yada. He was still playing good enough to get to this point. No excuse for that display of tennis today. Especially when you consider Nadal really didn't do much. Hes had far better matches indoors than this one
 
Gerco said:
That pretty much sums it up perfectly the way I think too. Thank you!!
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Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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People seem to forget the fact that Nadal is a goat candidate too , he's not just some bum who is crap against everyone bar federer. Everyone has trouble with Nadal , give him some credit
 
The way Fed played today, he may have lost to anybody in the top 10.

It didnt matter who the opponent was.

He just missed ALL key points, even though he was in a winning position in most of them.
 
octogon said:
2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
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Fantastic summation.
 
NadalFan201 said:
People seem to forget the fact that Nadal is a goat candidate too , he's not just some bum who is crap against everyone bar federer. Everyone has trouble with Nadal , give him some credit
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LOL!

That was my point. The OP seems stuck in some bizarre time-warp where Nadal is still considered just capri-wearing some clay court freak of nature, all muscles and brute force. The Op's post might have had some currency a few years ago. Today it just reads like delusional sour grapes.

Now he's a GOAT canidate, an all surface, all-time great, recognised for his intelligence and tactical superiority and acumen etc etc.
 
tennisaddict said:
The way Fed played today, he may have lost to anybody in the top 10.

It didnt matter who the opponent was.

He just missed ALL key points, even though he was in a winning position in most of them.
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:rolleyes: He wouldn't have lost to Wawrinka, Gasquet, Ferrer... need I go on? He beat Delpo after being outplayed and being down a set and break. 0-3 in third set. His heart alone made him claw his way back to a win. After losing the first set to Nadal today, he didn't fight. He was resigned to defeat. He didn't believe. That's what I have a problem with. :(
 
octogon said:
2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
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This is the truth that people need to start accepting. You nailed it. Many people bought into the "Federer is such a beautiful player" spiel and they have vilified Nadal from the get-go.

But the reality is that Nadal was also a super talent from the onset.

If you don't like his game, that's fair, but there is no way that Federer outclasses Nadal in any way. He never has and he never will.

I can say that Federer is a great player. There's no need to pretend that he isn't a talent at all, but some of these fans need to realize that Nadal is a talent too.
 
octogon said:
LOL!

That was my point. The OP seems stuck in some bizarre time-warp where Nadal is still considered just capri-wearing some clay court freak of nature, all muscles and brute force. The Op's post might have had some currency a few years ago. Today it just reads like delusional sour grapes.

Now he's a GOAT canidate, an all surface, all-time great, recognised for his intelligence and tactical superiority and acumen etc etc.
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They just don't see Fed for what he is , A GOAT candidate but he is human , he has flaws
 
Graf=GOAT said:
:rolleyes: He wouldn't have lost to Wawrinka, Gasquet, Ferrer... need I go on? He beat Delpo after being outplayed and being down a set and break. 0-3 in third set. His heart alone made him claw his way back to a win. After losing the first set to Nadal today, he didn't fight. He was resigned to defeat. He didn't believe. That's what I have a problem with. :(
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Federer played 10 times better vs Delpo.

At this age, you cannot get consistency day in day out.

Federer relies on precision.

People like Wawrinka, Gasquet, Ferrer make mistakes that Nadal and Novak does not and so there is a way to claw back , even when you play badly.

With Nadal, Novak and Murray there are no such chances as they are consistent, which is no wonder considering they are in their prime and 5 years younger.

Fed was playing match after match consistenly during 2004-07. Why ? Because that was his prime.
 
NadalFan201 said:
People seem to forget the fact that Nadal is a goat candidate too , he's not just some bum who is crap against everyone bar federer. Everyone has trouble with Nadal , give him some credit
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Precisely.

Vilifying Nadal might make some people feel better, but it's not going to change the reality.

It is what it is.
 
octogon said:
LOL!

That was my point. The OP seems stuck in some bizarre time-warp where Nadal is still considered just capri-wearing some clay court freak of nature, all muscles and brute force. The Op's post might have had some currency a few years ago. Today it just reads like delusional sour grapes.

Now he's a GOAT canidate, an all surface, all-time great, recognised for his intelligence and tactical superiority and acumen etc etc.
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This is so true.

Nadal deserves credit for his accomplishments too.
 
Nadal is among the GOAT candidates overall but certainly no GOAT on any of hard courts especially indoors. Yet Fed now has a losing record on that particular surface vs. him

Thats bad. Thats like Sampras having a losing h2h vs. Agassi on grass and hards. (Who Nadal isn't as good as on hard courts overall). Terrible


Nadal is ALSO pretty weak on grass being compared to other all time greats on the surface. And Fed lost to him there as well (almost twice if not for the 2007 Nadal choke)
 
FedererWinsWimbledon2014 said:
?



. .
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You don't understand that?

Just because you root for another player doesn't mean that you have to demean the other player and not give them due credit.

So, although I root for Nadal I can still see that Federer is a great player. It should also work in the reverse.

Then we wouldn't have so many flame wars. Maybe then, people could enjoy tennis, the sport, without being so obsessive.
 
90's Clay said:
Nadal is among the GOAT candidates overall but certainly no GOAT on any of hard courts especially indoors. Yet Fed now has a losing record on that particular surface vs. him

Thats bad. Thats like Sampras having a losing h2h vs. Agassi on grass and hards. (Who Nadal isn't as good as on hard courts overall). Terrible


Nadal is ALSO pretty weak on grass being compared to other all time greats on the surface. And Fed lost to him there as well (almost twice if not for the 2007 Nadal choke)
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At this point, you are just talking to yourself.

What is the point in having H2H when Sampras's accomplishments are now WAY inferior to Fed's ?

And Nadal is also passing Sampras soon.

That is a lot of b..thurt.
 
90's Clay said:
Nadal is among the GOAT candidates overall but certainly no GOAT on any of hard courts especially indoors. Yet Fed now has a losing record on that particular surface vs. him

Thats bad. Thats like Sampras having a losing h2h vs. Agassi on grass and hards. (Who Nadal isn't as good as on hard courts overall). Terrible


Nadal is ALSO pretty weak on grass being compared to other all time greats on the surface. And Fed lost to him there as well (almost twice if not for the 2007 Nadal choke)
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Yes, Federer struggles against Nadal, but he's still better than Sampras.

Also, Agassi is not Nadal. Federer would much rather play prime Agassi than any version of Nadal.
 
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octogon said:
2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Awesome post.
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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' a lesser player ' really??? are you kidding me?? I'm not a fan of either player as such but I think Federer has a more attractive game ( to me any way) but to call Nadal ' a lesser' player?? man you either don't know tennis or you must have some serious man crush on Roger Federer
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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Maybe you need to accept that Rafa is not a lesser player. You'll feel better.
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, ....
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I strongly disagree. Part of the reason why I am a Rafa fan is that he has given me more "Oh my God! How the hell did he win that point?!!" moments than just about anyone else I can think of, including Federer.

Roger Federer would also disagree with you:

Rafael and myself must have played so many times and so many times it has come down to a few shots here and there. He is an amazing shot-maker. Me as well (modest :) ), but today he got the better of me.
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http://www.atpworldtour.com/news/te...bi-saturday-nadal-beats-federer-in-final.aspx

The only way to beat Roger Federer is to hit him off the court. He eats pushers for breakfast. You do a serious disservice to Roger Federer when you insist that "a much less talented shotmaker" could even trouble the great man.

How would that even be possible? All Federer would have to do is keep the ball in play and wait for the right moment to strike, knowing that the opponent has no weapons to harm him. You really think Roger Federer is incapable of executing such a simple tactic?

......and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.
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Who is creating this intense pressure that nobody else can and why doesn't this player deserve the credit for it?

Nadal is creating this pressure because he is the most difficult player to win points from. From Roger's perspective, Nadal has no major weaknesses. His backhand is as dangerous as his forehand. His passing shots are lethal. His level is more consistent. His movement and anticipation are second to none. Nadal can soak up Federer's strongest attacks but the minute he drops it short, Nadal hits back with a massively aggressive counterattack.

Everyone has the same problem but in some ways it is worse for Federer. A more one dimensional player is pretty much shafted if Plan A isn't working. Federer has so much variety that he has got many more options to choose from, so it can't be much fun when none of them are working.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over.
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Federer knows how to beat Del Potro. It is simply a matter of executing the correct game plan and it will either work or not depending on how excellent Del Potro is on the day. On Juan-Martin's day he can destroy virtually everyone but his problem is that he is not as consistent as the big four. So Federer can play with a clear head, without doubts about his tactics against the big fella.

Federer doesn't really know how to beat Nadal except (in the past) on a surface where his strength (his serve) gets him lots of cheap points and Nadal's weakness (his serve) was very attackable.

For as long as I have been watching their matches, if Nadal survives the first four or five strokes of a rally, he is heavy favourite to win the point. He is just too good for Federer from the baseline.

Federer is to Nadal what Roddick was to Federer IMO. Watching Roddick Federer matches you always knew that if Roddick didn't win the point quickly he was going to lose. Federer's defences and ability to turn defence into attack was simply too good and no matter how hard he tried, Roddick could never convincingly prevent his backhand being picked to death. It was either a quick death or a slow death, but usually death.

You are right, Federer is not a mentally weak player. He could not possibly have had the unprecedented success that he has had if he were mentally weak.

Nadal beats him because the fact is that he is a better all round player than Federer. Nadal is better than any other player at beating Federer. He is also better than Federer at beating everyone else too.

You know they have played 32 matches now, not 4 or 5. The results speak for themselves.
 
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We have arrived at a time where Roger knows if he doesn't execute his game plan almost perfectly, he's not gonna win. Hence, you have this defeated looking Fed once things start to go off course. It's like trying to pitch a no-hitter and giving up a hit in the top of the 4th inning. This is what Roger and his game are up against now when taking the court with Rafa. Today's match didn't even allow Rafa to get into his zone and still look at the result.
 
btw did anyone notice that nadal's complete lack of exuberance at the end of the match? its as if a win over federer is now almost routine. lol.
 
TheTruth said:
This is the truth that people need to start accepting. You nailed it. Many people bought into the "Federer is such a beautiful player" spiel and they have vilified Nadal from the get-go.

But the reality is that Nadal was also a super talent from the onset.

If you don't like his game, that's fair, but there is no way that Federer outclasses Nadal in any way. He never has and he never will.

I can say that Federer is a great player. There's no need to pretend that he isn't a talent at all, but some of these fans need to realize that Nadal is a talent too.
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This right here. You can't expect to ever understand if you can't see what an amazing player Nadal is. Open your eyes haters and it'll hurt a lot less to watch. The guy is amazing on court.
 
msc886 said:
Yes, Federer struggles against Nadal, but he's still better than Sampras.

Also, Agassi is not Nadal. Federer would much rather play prime Agassi than any version of Nadal.
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Really? How much prime Agassi have you seen? If I recall correctly, Agassi had a 7-0 H2H over Federer at one point.

The one matchup I wish we could see would be prime Nadal -v- Agassi. No disrespect to RN when I say I'd fully expect AA to win by far most of those on grass / hard, and have some wins on clay.
 
rh310 said:
Really? How much prime Agassi have you seen? If I recall correctly, Agassi had a 7-0 H2H over Federer at one point.

The one matchup I wish we could see would be prime Nadal -v- Agassi. No disrespect to RN when I say I'd fully expect AA to win by far most of those on grass / hard, and have some wins on clay.
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agassi has less than 1/2 the movement that fed has, and fed is already struggling so bad against nadal's pinpoint control. you must be kidding me.
 
rh310 said:
Really? How much prime Agassi have you seen? If I recall correctly, Agassi had a 7-0 H2H over Federer at one point.

The one matchup I wish we could see would be prime Nadal -v- Agassi. No disrespect to RN when I say I'd fully expect AA to win by far most of those on grass / hard, and have some wins on clay.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's you who haven't seen Agassi played at all, because he never had a 7-0 h2h over Federer.
 
octogon said:
2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
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Great Post
 
newpball said:
I think the better question is how in the world did Del Potro lose from Federer.
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Yeah really. Such a good question. How could Del Potro lose for the 14th time to Federer? I mean I know Federer beat him last week in Paris, but the fact that Federer has the capability to beat Del Potro astonished me!:shock:

Real answer: He stepped up big time in pressure moments and played tremendous defense the whole match. 10 aces, 39 total winners.
 
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octogon said:
2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
Click to expand...
What a glorious post. I thank you for posting it so that I could read and appreciate it :)
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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Yea. How could a "superior" player like Roger Federer lose to Nadal ?

All Nadal has is so much luck , that's all. He got no talent. He even plays left handed tennis being right handed. All draws/matches are rigged in his favor.....blah blah

As many posters stated above, Rafa nadal is every bit equal and a better player to Roger. Please stop that non sense with carpet/indoor /outdoor crap.
 
Thriller said:
I strongly disagree. Part of the reason why I am a Rafa fan is that he has given me more "Oh my God! How the hell did he win that point?!!" moments than just about anyone else I can think of, including Federer.

Roger Federer would also disagree with you:



http://www.atpworldtour.com/news/te...bi-saturday-nadal-beats-federer-in-final.aspx

The only way to beat Roger Federer is to hit him off the court. He eats pushers for breakfast. You do a serious disservice to Roger Federer when you insist that "a much less talented shotmaker" could even trouble the great man.

How would that even be possible? All Federer would have to do is keep the ball in play and wait for the right moment to strike, knowing that the opponent has no weapons to harm him. You really think Roger Federer is incapable of executing such a simple tactic?



Who is creating this intense pressure that nobody else can and why doesn't this player deserve the credit for it?

Nadal is creating this pressure because he is the most difficult player to win points from. From Roger's perspective, Nadal has no major weaknesses. His backhand is as dangerous as his forehand. His passing shots are lethal. His level is more consistent. His movement and anticipation are second to none. Nadal can soak up Federer's strongest attacks but the minute he drops it short, Nadal hits back with a massively aggressive counterattack.

Everyone has the same problem but in some ways it is worse for Federer. A more one dimensional player is pretty much shafted if Plan A isn't working. Federer has so much variety that he has got many more options to choose from, so it can't be much fun when none of them are working.



Federer knows how to beat Del Potro. It is simply a matter of executing the correct game plan and it will either work or not depending on how excellent Del Potro is on the day. On Juan-Martin's day he can destroy virtually everyone but his problem is that he is not as consistent as the big four. So Federer can play with a clear head, without doubts about his tactics against the big fella.

Federer doesn't really know how to beat Nadal except (in the past) on a surface where his strength (his serve) gets him lots of cheap points and Nadal's weakness (his serve) was very attackable.

For as long as I have been watching their matches, if Nadal survives the first four or five strokes of a rally, he is heavy favourite to win the point. He is just too good for Federer from the baseline.

Federer is to Nadal what Roddick was to Federer IMO. Watching Roddick Federer matches you always knew that if Roddick didn't win the point quickly he was going to lose. Federer's defences and ability to turn defence into attack was simply too good and no matter how hard he tried, Roddick could never convincingly prevent his backhand being picked to death. It was either a quick death or a slow death, but usually death.

You are right, Federer is not a mentally weak player. He could not possibly have had the unprecedented success that he has had if he were mentally weak.

Nadal beats him because the fact is that he is a better all round player than Federer. Nadal is better than any other player at beating Federer. He is also better than Federer at beating everyone else too.

You know they have played 32 matches now, not 4 or 5. The results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

Wonderful post from start to finish.
 
Why are people making conclusions from this? federer was tired as ****. He could barely put in any effort after he broke in the first set. He's finished.

And people who say the court isn't slow as hell are lying. Just go and watch the 2010 video, it's obviously quicker
 
OK, here's the match that I saw today:

Nadal played his bread and butter game of consistency, playing high percentage shots and chasing down everything.

Federer played his game of attacking everything.

Federer got sick of every ball constantly coming back over the net and felt the need to keep going for more and more.

This is unsustainable and after losing the first set he was disgusted and frustrated. That's when the errors started, and once he started to kamikaze the net it was all over.

Nadal didn't have to do anything special, he just had to show up and let Fed implode, as usual these days. Wimbledon 2008, AO 2009, Nadal came up with really special tennis. These days though he just needs to get everything back and let Fed self destruct.

I don't know what match you guys watched but that's what I saw today.
 
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