Honestly, why is Federer so mentally weak against Nadal?

Sid_Vicious said:
Yeah really. Such a good question. How could Del Potro lose for the 14th time to Federer? I mean I know Federer beat him last week in Paris, but the fact that Federer has the capability to beat Del Potro astonished me!:shock:

Real answer: He stepped up big time in pressure moments and played tremendous defense the whole match. 10 aces, 39 total winners.
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We'll catch up when Federer gets lifted in the second or third round of the AO 2014. :grin:
 
not_federer said:
OK, here's the match that I saw today:

Nadal played his bread and butter game of consistency, playing high percentage shots and chasing down everything.

Federer played his game of attacking everything.

Federer got sick of every ball constantly coming back over the net and felt the need to keep going for more and more.

This is unsustainable and after losing the first set he was disgusted and frustrated. That's when the errors started, and once he started to kamikaze the net it was all over.

Nadal didn't have to do anything special, he just had to show up and let Fed implode, as usual these days. Wimbledon 2008, AO 2009, Nadal came up with really special tennis. These days though he just needs to get everything back and let Fed self destruct.

I don't know what match you guys watched but that's what I saw today.
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i saw Rafa attacking Federer's forehand more. Almost daring him to fire it. Steve Tignor saw that too.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/11/london-nadal-d-federer/49751/
 
Sid_Vicious said:
Yeah really. Such a good question. How could Del Potro lose for the 14th time to Federer? I mean I know Federer beat him last week in Paris, but the fact that Federer has the capability to beat Del Potro astonished me!:shock:

Real answer: He stepped up big time in pressure moments and played tremendous defense the whole match. 10 aces, 39 total winners.
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I believe Federer can manipulate Delpo to defer to him. The mini verbal tirade at himself vs. Delpo could have softened up Delpo. Delpo is too nice. Delpo feels guilty to hurt or bother Fed. I believe Delpo subconsciously defers to Federer in many of their matches. He's just not a killer vs. Federer or Hewitt his hero. He has so much respect for them. But Fed has run out of ideas on how to beat or trick Rafa.
 
Rafa completely owns Federer now and has for years. He has broken him down mentally, to the point where Federer really doesn't believe he can beat him anymore. He tries and wants to believe but deep down he knows he can't. Each match is the same pattern. Rafa has his system to beat Federer and he knows it keeps producing the desired result. Federer is not sure how to win the key points vs. Rafa. The rivalry is one way traffic. And it has been for years.
 
Federer struggled to deal with Nadal in his prime on his favorite surfaces. It's not something extraordinary that old Federer keeps losing to still in prime Nadal. Also, as people have pointed out, Nadal is one of the greatest players in the history of tennis, so there's nothing strange about losing to him.
 
World Beater said:
People dont give nadal enough credit for his talent.

Yes, federer's talent is more finesse oriented but nadal can create angles like few in history and his hand-eye is insane considering the amount of spin he hits.

nobody is better on the run on both sides than rafael nadal. His strength on the stretch is almost herculean.
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Nadal is more talented than people give him credit for, this is true. The thing is that Federer seemed to suddenly achieve mastery of the game out of nowhere, and transformed from 2003 to 2004 into an incredible player.

Nadal on the other hand started out very one-dimensional and developed slowly and over time. This is why people have always gotten the feeling that Federer is the greater player and Nadal is inferior and somehow clawing his way to victories.

The truth is that Nadal's greatness has been like a slow uphill climb, and today he is one of the best defenders the sport has ever known, an excellent shotmaker (not as good as Fed), a mental beast, and has one of the best Forehands of all time.

Although, you're wrong about Nadal being the best on the run; defensively Djokovic is unmatched. Due to Djok's flexibility he can hit winnners even from the backhand side when he is on a ful split; Nadal's incredible on the run but Djokovic is a freak of Nature
 
Morj said:
Nadal is more talented than people give him credit for, this is true. The thing is that Federer seemed to suddenly achieve mastery of the game out of nowhere, and transformed from 2003 to 2004 into an incredible player.

Nadal on the other hand started out very one-dimensional and developed slowly and over time. This is why people have always gotten the feeling that Federer is the greater player and Nadal is inferior and somehow clawing his way to victories.

The truth is that Nadal's greatness has been like a slow uphill climb, and today he is one of the best defenders the sport has ever known, an excellent shotmaker (not as good as Fed), a mental beast, and has one of the best Forehands of all time.

Although, you're wrong about Nadal being the best on the run; defensively Djokovic is unmatched. Due to Djok's flexibility he can hit winnners even from the backhand side when he is on a ful split; Nadal's incredible on the run but Djokovic is a freak of Nature
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Not sure i agree on the djokovic vs nadal part.

djokovic is more flexible but he doesnt do as much with the ball when gets there like nadal. djokovic many times just pushes the ball back whereas nadal blasts the ball back.

on hard courts, i would go with djokovic..but on clay nadal is superior. i could not imagine djokovic hitting fh winners passing shots from 15 ft behind the baseline
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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Biased loaded stupid assumptions.
 
He's not. Rafa is just such a mental monster that he makes everyone look weak. The only one comparable is "Son of God" mode Nole.
 
90's Clay said:
This was a chance for Fed to get a big win on Nadal (in his own backyard) where the conditions are PERFECT for Fed's game and this is the display he puts forth?

Dumping EASY shots into the net, getting broke easily, barely putting up a fight in the 2nd set etc.

32 yada yada. He was still playing good enough to get to this point. No excuse for that display of tennis today. Especially when you consider Nadal really didn't do much. Hes had far better matches indoors than this one
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You know, Nadal at the peak of his powers couldn't sneak in a WTF even against a post prime Fed in the past 3 years. It is only when a completely washed up Federer , who suffered from physical issues for most of the season showed up that Nadal could finally get his first indoor win against Federer. No big deal because Federer has been losing to the likes of Stakhovsky and Robredo at slams this year, clearly showing where his level is, so no surprises here.

Oh, and Federer shouldn't even have been facing his nemesis here at the WTF this year. He just barely qualified for the WTF and then really gave it his all to win against Delpo, which itself was an upset. He had the choice to maintain his perfect record against Nadal indoors, and need not have killed himself for that victory against Delpo, but he didn't. He showed up even when it was clear that his chances of winning against Nadal were negligible (just like how he showed up against Nadal in IW this year, when he should have clearly withdrawn due to injury). On the other hand, Nadal shies away from even competing or showing up when he knows he is subpar and doesn't have a chance to win.

And if your hero had hung around till he was 32, he would have been losing to challenger and future level players , so he did the smart thing and quit to preserve his legacy.
 
The only way to beat Roger Federer is to hit him off the court. He eats pushers for breakfast. You do a serious disservice to Roger Federer when you insist that "a much less talented shotmaker" could even trouble the great man.
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Nobody called Nadal a pusher. He's a defensive baseliner, that's all. As for 'hitting Federer off the court' that is absolutely not how Nadal plays Federer or anyone. Nadal's game thrives on pushing Federer as far behind the baseline as possible, forcing him to play defense instead of his usual offence. And that is only possible when the surfaces take his spin well. The fact that Federer is still committed to playing offence against Nadal and not get into an endless defensive rut is a testament to how much fight the guy has. It takes SERIOUS courage to stand right on the baseline and hit one-handed backhands that go well above your shoulder-level. Federer is literally the only player I have seen who has a one-handed BH and who is committed at not being forced behind by the sheer weight of Nadal's ball.




Who is creating this intense pressure that nobody else can and why doesn't this player deserve the credit for it?
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I'll tell you why : Because tennis was never meant to be played that way across the board. That is why they're planning to speed the AO up over the next few years. That's why the ticket sales for this year's WTF Final have actually gone down. :lol:

Nadal is creating this pressure because he is the most difficult player to win points from. From Roger's perspective, Nadal has no major weaknesses. His backhand is as dangerous as his forehand. His passing shots are lethal. His level is more consistent. His movement and anticipation are second to none. Nadal can soak up Federer's strongest attacks but the minute he drops it short, Nadal hits back with a massively aggressive counterattack.
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I really doubt Federer is THAT bothered with consistency. Even Djokovic has those attributes and he's arguably more aggressive than Nadal. He certainly takes the ball earlier. Federer is most bothered by the weight of Nadal's shot.
As for passing shots: This is hilarious. The truth is Nadal wouldn't be having near the passing shots he does if the volleys didn't sit up on these courts. On any court where the volley dies down early, Nadal inevitably struggles.

More to follow.
 
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octoman ftw

Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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This butthurt fanboy suppository of a post should be set on fire and dropped off a cliff.


octogon said:
2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
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Perfectly summed up--hell of a post, ocotogon.

cjs said:
Biased loaded stupid assumptions
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^^^
This +1
 
Thriller said:
]

Federer doesn't really know how to beat Nadal except (in the past) on a surface where his strength (his serve) gets him lots of cheap points and Nadal's weakness (his serve) was very attackable.
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This comment alone shows you don't really watch these two play at all. Federer has never been adept at returning Nadal's serve, or rather his second serve, because it is that much heavier and inevitably sits up.
The only part you got right was surface: A quick surface (pretty much an anomaly today) will not only help his serve but his strokes in general. Every element of attack is that much more efficient on a quicker surface.


For as long as I have been watching their matches, if Nadal survives the first four or five strokes of a rally, he is heavy favourite to win the point. He is just too good for Federer from the baseline.
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Thanks for making my point for me. Surfaces really don't favour attackers anymore.


Nadal beats him because the fact is that he is a better all round player than Federer. Nadal is better than any other player at beating Federer. He is also better than Federer at beating everyone else too.
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Nadal is a better defensive baseliner. And the comparison ends there.
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Federer is not mentally weak, per say, and the OP is right. But I have observed something about Federer, and I wouldn't call it mental weakness, but if this makes any sense (which it might not) Federer is the victim of his own success. Federer is a rare player who has been able to go out on the match court and just beat guys by being talented, and it's awe-inspiring to watch. It's amazing really that he has been able to accomplish so much, but his talent has masked his mental shortcomings. I believe that this is why he is going to end up with a losing head to head against Murray, Djokovic, and Nadal.
 
ctoth666 said:
Federer is not mentally weak, per say, and the OP is right. But I have observed something about Federer, and I wouldn't call it mental weakness, but if this makes any sense (which it might not) Federer is the victim of his own success. Federer is a rare player who has been able to go out on the match court and just beat guys by being talented, and it's awe-inspiring to watch. It's amazing really that he has been able to accomplish so much, but his talent has masked his mental shortcomings. I believe that this is why he is going to end up with a losing head to head against Murray, Djokovic, and Nadal.
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Yea, the thing with Federer is that he is just so much more talented than other players that its not as much about mental strength. When he's down and losing he's not thinking "i have to fight" hes thinking "im better, as long as i play my game ill win". You can tell that by how he talks about matches in interviews, he always thinks the match is on his racket.

Thats why when confronted with players like Nadal, who can actually run down his shots and counter his game, Federer suddenly realizes he cant just get away with his talent and he doesnt always meet the challenge. As soon as the idea comes into his head that "i can be playing well and i still might not necessarily win," that mentality hurts him, hes not used to that.

With Djokovic/Murray they didnt really start to raise his game to match him till much later so he doesnt have mental problems against them. He was used to feeling superior to them from early on.
 
Morj said:
Yea, the thing with Federer is that he is just so much more talented than other players that its not as much about mental strength. When he's down and losing he's not thinking "i have to fight" hes thinking "im better, as long as i play my game ill win". You can tell that by how he talks about matches in interviews, he always thinks the match is on his racket.

Thats why when confronted with players like Nadal, who can actually run down his shots and counter his game, Federer suddenly realizes he cant just get away with his talent and he doesnt always meet the challenge. As soon as the idea comes into his head that "i can be playing well and i still might not necessarily win," that mentality hurts him, hes not used to that.

With Djokovic/Murray they didnt really start to raise his game to match him till much later so he doesnt have mental problems against them. He was used to feeling superior to them from early on.
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A nice post. :)
 
octogon said:
2007 called. It wants it's post back:lol:

Can't really take any of this nonsense you wrote just seriously. You do sound like a refugee from 2007, when people could still claim with a straight face that Nadal was some one-dimensional, moonballing dirtballer.

It's 2013. He's officially recognised by just about anyone with a brain, as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a racket. Calling him a "lesser player" than Fed at this stage is beyond simple minded. Only two other players have won more majors than Nadal. Nadal has a superior H2H with pretty much all his main opponents, not just Fed. The H2H isn't some strange anomaly. Nadal beats everyone, not just Fed.

You'd do well to start by accepting what a special player Nadal is in the history of the game. Too many Fed fans bought into this myth of his brand of balleriana tennis being the best. Tennis is a sport, and Nadal plays to win.

Both are all time greats. Nadal is just better. It's really not rocket science.
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that is one hell of a post mate.

well done.
 
newpball said:
We'll catch up when Federer gets lifted in the second or third round of the AO 2014. :grin:
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What does AO 2014 have to do with this? Sure, Federer might lose early at the AO next year, but I don't see any reason for us to "catch up"; I never made any grand predictions for Federer in 2014 to being with.

If Federer loses early at the AO, the people you want to catch up with are like-minded Federer haters.:grin:
 
Thriller said:
Federer doesn't really know how to beat Nadal except (in the past) on a surface where his strength (his serve) gets him lots of cheap points and Nadal's weakness (his serve) was very attackable.
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That's completely wrong. Nadal normally serves like Sampras against Federer. In Wimbledon 2008, Nadal was broken once in 5 hours.



Nadal beats him because the fact is that he is a better all round player than Federer. Nadal is better than any other player at beating Federer. He is also better than Federer at beating everyone else too.
.
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Nadal is a better all around player than Federer? Are you joking? Nadal is the same clay specialist he was in 2004-07. His serve is better, his forehand is flatter. But to call him an all arounder? That's preposterous. :?
 
TheTruth said:
You don't understand that?

Just because you root for another player doesn't mean that you have to demean the other player and not give them due credit.

So, although I root for Nadal I can still see that Federer is a great player. It should also work in the reverse.

Then we wouldn't have so many flame wars. Maybe then, people could enjoy tennis, the sport, without being so obsessive.
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I believe Federer outclasses Nadal in many ways but Nadal also outclasses Federer in some ways.
 
TheTruth said:
Then why did you post the question mark?

I thought you were seriously asking me a question.
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I was asking you to explain your comment that Federer doesn't outclass Nadal in anyway and never had.

Thanks for doing so.
 
FedererWinsWimbledon2014 said:
I was asking you to explain your comment that Federer doesn't outclass Nadal in anyway and never had.

Thanks for doing so.
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Oh, OK.

Since you clarified. I feel that no two players are identical, especially when you get into the top echelon. It was easier to select between Pete and Andre because they were so close in age.

But, its murky when you get to Federer and Rafa, because the age gap wreaks havoc on comparisons.

I don't think either one outclasses the other, because they both have different strengths, and those things can't be quantified, imo.

In the end, no matter how much we banter back and forth, we all have different criteria for our faves, but nothing can be definitely proven.

But, thanks for asking me what I meant instead of making assumptions. That's always appreciated.
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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As per the great Mats Wilander after the 2006 French Open Final:

"Federer, today, unfortunately came out with no balls... you don't find too many champions in any sport in the world without heart or balls. He might have them, but against Nadal they shrink to a very small size and it's not once, it's every time."
 
ctoth666 said:
Federer is not mentally weak, per say, and the OP is right. But I have observed something about Federer, and I wouldn't call it mental weakness, but if this makes any sense (which it might not) Federer is the victim of his own success. Federer is a rare player who has been able to go out on the match court and just beat guys by being talented, and it's awe-inspiring to watch. It's amazing really that he has been able to accomplish so much, but his talent has masked his mental shortcomings. I believe that this is why he is going to end up with a losing head to head against Murray, Djokovic, and Nadal.
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I agree with you, but I have to say, it's not as if the H2H's against Djokovic and Murray will really matter.
 
pmerk34 said:
As per the great Mats Wilander after the 2006 French Open Final:

"Federer, today, unfortunately came out with no balls... you don't find too many champions in any sport in the world without heart or balls. He might have them, but against Nadal they shrink to a very small size and it's not once, it's every time."
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I would like one of those so called "champions" with 3-times less majors than Fed, try to go and play Rafa on clay.

I dare them and let's see what happens.

I mean Sampras with his own record on clay, is saying Fed has to beat Rafa to be considered the greatest. Funny. Who called it quits when he was getting owned. Borg too. Fed is still fighting.

At least Fed is classy and respects other greats. And Fed doesn't even consider himself goat or better than them. So, why do they have to say this about Fed?

I think being mentally weak is having 3-times less majors than Fed and making fun of him in public.
 
sbengte said:
You know, Nadal at the peak of his powers couldn't sneak in a WTF even against a post prime Fed in the past 3 years. It is only when a completely washed up Federer , who suffered from physical issues for most of the season showed up that Nadal could finally get his first indoor win against Federer. No big deal because Federer has been losing to the likes of Stakhovsky and Robredo at slams this year, clearly showing where his level is, so no surprises here.

Oh, and Federer shouldn't even have been facing his nemesis here at the WTF this year. He just barely qualified for the WTF and then really gave it his all to win against Delpo, which itself was an upset. He had the choice to maintain his perfect record against Nadal indoors, and need not have killed himself for that victory against Delpo, but he didn't. He showed up even when it was clear that his chances of winning against Nadal were negligible (just like how he showed up against Nadal in IW this year, when he should have clearly withdrawn due to injury). On the other hand, Nadal shies away from even competing or showing up when he knows he is subpar and doesn't have a chance to win.

And if your hero had hung around till he was 32, he would have been losing to challenger and future level players , so he did the smart thing and quit to preserve his legacy.
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No, he doesn't.
 
Graf=GOAT said:
The recent loss still stings, but the overall theme is the same throughout the years. Federer is not a mentally weak player. Far from it. You don't win 17GS by being mentally weak. Even in best of 3, you often saw Fed outplayed, outrallied. He would hang in there, hold serve, win the second set in a breaker and then run away with it.

Not so with Nadal.

I think most of us can agree that Fed is a much more talented shotmaker than Nadal could ever dream to be, and yet he always seems to get that "deer in the headlights" look when he's facing the Spaniard. Honestly, it's getting ridiculous. He has the game to defeat Nadal on all surfaces, but rarely takes his chances. That is the most frustrating factor in this rivalry. Fed seems to simply implode under pressure and it's been getting more and more ridiculous over the years. The match up begins to remind me of Maria Sharapova vs Serena Williams, at least mentally.

Today he looked like a broken man, a stark contrast to what you saw in Delpo match, where Fed looked like he was a man on a mission. He believed he could win even when down a set and a break. Even when he was down 0-3 in the decider. Against Nadal he just rolled over. Even when he broke back in the first set, he was immediately broken back by relentless Nadal who seemed to be ****ed off at being broken. Conversely, Nadal, when playing Federer seems to be oozing with confidence, flattening out his FH, serving great and hitting outrageous passing shots. He looked lethargic against Wawrinka and downright uninterested in the second set vs Berdych, yet vs Federer he seems to play like a madman every time.

I simply hate the fact that a player of Fed's caliber has this sort of H2H against a lesser player. Now he got beaten indoors, his absolute last bastion. Federer has the game. He just needs to stop choking and doubting himself. He can beat Nadal, even on clay. He just doesn't believe.
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Do you honestly believe half the crap you wrote? I fear for your sanity if you do...
 
Can't really blame Federer for being mentally weak against Rafa.....it's seems as though Nadal simply has Roger figured out and there is nothing he can do to stop it . It's frustrating as hell.
 
Crisstti said:
No, he doesn't.
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Yes, he does. He said so himself. He only shows up when he knows he has a chance to win.

But, so what. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. He can rest more, he can maintain his edge vs his rivals, not allowing them to beat him when not at his best.

But the downside is, rankings suffer, he has less chances to win tournaments and his consistency records suffer.

I wish Fed would do this more. I mean his 23 consecutive finals and 18/19 finals record is great, but if you don't win, it doesn't help you. He could avoid being burned out at later stages of tournaments. Yes, when he was young, it worked, since he was young. But the advantage is, he has the rankings record, which is also very important.
 
rh310 said:
Really? How much prime Agassi have you seen? If I recall correctly, Agassi had a 7-0 H2H over Federer at one point.

The one matchup I wish we could see would be prime Nadal -v- Agassi. No disrespect to RN when I say I'd fully expect AA to win by far most of those on grass / hard, and have some wins on clay.
Click to expand...

You recall incorrectly.

Berdych once had a winning H2H against Nadal too, then we know what happened...
 
mmmm.....

I DON`T THINK SO.

the mental weakness for fed is not only in head terms.

NADAL ADVANTAGE WITH FEDERER IT`S TACTICAL , BEST LEFTY SPIN FOREHAND OF ALL TIMES AGAINST HIS WEAK SHOT.

federer even playing at 100% always suffer with nadal even if he wins.

IF YOU FACE A GUY WHO TORTURE YOUR TENNIS BECAUSE HE HAS ALL THE WEAPONS TO BEAT YOU , THAT ****ED THE MIND FOR SURE.
 
rodrigo_palacio88 said:
mmmm.....

I DON`T THINK SO.

the mental weakness for fed is not only in head terms.

NADAL ADVANTAGE WITH FEDERER IT`S TACTICAL , BEST LEFTY SPIN FOREHAND OF ALL TIMES AGAINST HIS WEAK SHOT.

federer even playing at 100% always suffer with nadal even if he wins.

IF YOU FACE A GUY WHO TORTURE YOUR TENNIS BECAUSE HE HAS ALL THE WEAPONS TO BEAT YOU , THAT ****ED THE MIND FOR SURE.
Click to expand...

And all the rest of the top 30 players on the planet.
 
Chicken or the egg thing.

I think any mental weakness he has against Nadal is the result of losing so many matches to him. I'm sure Roddick and Hewitt had similar mental blocks against Federer.
 
In response to the OP's ...mentally weak assertion, I'd say Rodge at first had the wrong attitude towards Rafa. He thought, I'm the best, world number one, the most talented player in the world, hence (in the beginning) he always tried to match Rafa, shot for shot from the baseline, thinking, I'm the best, no way I can't play anyone's game and beat them at their own game...well, while he was succesful with most everyone, he didn't do so well with Rafa. As the h2h piled on, it just went uglier to a point where it is utterly pathetic.

So, again in response to the OP's ...mentally weak assertion, Rodge was the architect of his own demise (at least in the h2h department against Rafa), poor thing.

However, I am not blind to see his flaws but still admired what he'd brought to the sport of tennis and his contributions shall never erode even with the passage of time. Much like the Emersons, Rosewalls, Lavers, Borgs et al. I am forever a tennis fan.
 
Federer20042006 said:
Chicken or the egg thing.

I think any mental weakness he has against Nadal is the result of losing so many matches to him. I'm sure Roddick and Hewitt had similar mental blocks against Federer.
Click to expand...

just to sidetrack, it is the chicken first, not the egg.
 
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