Hot Take: 20-year-old Djokovic is better than 20-year-old Alcaraz

Who is better at 20 years old, Djokovic or Alcaraz?

  • Djokovic

    Votes: 28 38.9%

  • Alcaraz

    Votes: 38 52.8%

  • About the same

    Votes: 6 8.3%
  • Total voters
    72
M

Megafanoftennis100

Professional
Honestly, I think Djokovic at 20 years is very underrated. He was overshadowed because he constantly had to play against Federer and Nadal in their primes, when Djokovic himself was not yet in his prime.
2007-2008 Djokovic faced significantly tougher competition than 2022-2023 Alcaraz. Djokovic had prime Fedal in their mid 20s, whereas Alcaraz has a 36 year old Djokovic who is nearing retirement and is a shadow of the player he was back in 2011-2016.

Let's compare the paths to Grand Slams that Djokovic and Alcaraz had in 2007 and 2023 respectively:

2007 AO - Djokovic was beating everyone except for peak Federer having the best AO run of his life.
2007 RG - Djokovic was beating everyone except for near-prime Nadal. Although I think he would have lost to Federer in the final even if Nadal were absent. But without Fed as well? Yeah, he most likely wins the tournament.
2007 Wimby - Djokovic was beating everyone except for near-prime Nadal, who went on to give peak Federer a run for his money in the final.
2007 USO - Djokovic was beating everyone except for peak Federer, and almost went 2-0 in sets. Carlos would have been destroyed by 2007 Federer at USO.

2023 AO - Alcaraz did not participate.
2023 RG - Alcaraz got cramps mid-match against a 36-year-old Djokovic, whose worst surface is clay. 2007 Fedal on clay would obliterate Carlos.
2023 WB - Alcaraz won this, but he barely managed to win against a 36 year old Djokovic in a very close 5-setter, which could easily have gone either way (also, Djokovic choked a bit on crucial moments). Winning a set against 2007 Nadal at Wimby is easily more impressive than this. And if there were no Federer or Nadal, Djokovic would have very likely won Wimbledon 2007.
2023 USO - Alcaraz lost to Medvedev, and yes, Medvedev played a phenomenal match, but still, 2007 Federer >> 2023 Medvedev.

For Djokovic, he was advancing far into all four Slams and he lost only to prime Fedal. He was easily the 3rd best player in 3/4 Slams in 2007 (I wouldn’t count AO, because he was convincingly knocked out in the 4th round). If prime Fedal did not exist, Nole would have won RG, Wimby and USO that year, along with two Masters 1000 titles which he already won.
As for Alcaraz, he lost to a 36-year-old past-prime Djokovic and Medvedev. He won 2 Masters this season so far, but never had to face anyone on the level of 2007 Fedal. On the other hand, look at Djokovic, who in 2007, beat Nadal AND Federer back-to-back to win Montreal! And don't forget that Nole could have completed the Sunshine Double in 2007, had Nadal not beaten him at Indian Wells. So that's 3 potential Masters 1000 titles in the absence of prime Fedal.

To summarize:
Big Titles that Alcaraz could have won this season in the absence of a prime ATG player - remains the same as it is: Wimbledon, Indian Wells, Madrid - 3
Big Titles that Djokovic could have won in 2007 in the absence of a prime ATG player - RG, Wimbledon, USO, Indian Wells, Miami, Montreal - 6, or possibly even more, because winning all those titles would have given him a serious confidence boost.
20-year old Alcaraz isn't really much better than 20-year old Djokovic. The latter was just unlucky to be overshadowed by prime Fedal before reaching his own prime.
 
I don't think it's a worthwhile comparison. The sport was so much less physical when Djokovic was 20. I think a 20-year-old Novak would struggle mightily with the physicality and speed of today's tour.
 
I’ve watched more of the old Djoker matches lately. The writing was on the wall; even in 2007. His play was absolutely stellar. He had that ridiculous speed back then. And he could serve 131 down the T and 126 out-wide. Also, he wasn’t botching overheads like years later(he fixed that eventually). His only downside was the occasional mental lapses. But when he was clicking, he was incredibly dangerous already. This kid worried me a lot in 2007.

Here are some of his highlights from this 2007 Miami QF vs Nadal at age 19. His play was stellar.

 
2008 Djokovic has a good case. It is close between 2008 Djokovic and 2023 alcaraz.

Although half that year he was 21. Therefore, if we judging the May 2007 to May 2008, we still need to wait for alcaraz to reach May 2024. As Carlos was only 20 from May 2023. Still too early to make a conclusive decision.

If we compare 19/20 Djokovic to 19/20 alcaraz then Carlos is superior overall. 2022/2023 alcaraz better than 2007/2008 overall in my view.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
2008 Djokovic has a good case. It is close between 2008 Djokovic and 2023 alcaraz.
Click to expand...
Do you think it's close between them when Novak was clearly better at AO, RG and USO? And equal or better in virtually every Masters 1000 and very likely at the YEC too?

2007 Novak is a good comparison. Carlos outdid him in Madrid, Wimbledon, Cincinatti and arguably IW, though he is not beating 2007 Nadal. Novak was better in Miami, Canada and USO. Carlos better in 500s and below.

The margin between 2007 Novak and Carlos is much smaller compared to 2008 Novak, who was close to his prime 2012-2014 self on both results and level.
 
InsideOut900 said:
Do you think it's close between them when Novak was clearly better at AO, RG and USO? And equal or better in virtually every Masters 1000 and very likely at the YEC too?

2007 Novak is a good comparison. Carlos outdid him in Madrid, Wimbledon, Cincinatti and arguably IW, though he is not beating 2007 Nadal. Novak was better in Miami, Canada and USO. Carlos better in 500s and below.

The margin between 2007 Novak and Carlos is much smaller compared to 2008 Novak, who was close to his prime 2012-2014 self on both results and level.
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I’d agree. I would put 2008 Djokovic slightly ahead of alcaraz. I put alcaraz ahead of 2007 Djokovic although it is still not massive gap.

Yeah fair enough to 2008 Djokovic is ahead but 2007 Djokovic is a bit behind for me.

We will see what alcaraz does in next few years as Djokovic went off the rails a bit in 2009/2010 years. We will see if Carlos does better there.
 
It's not a hot take at all. 80% people believe so.

Djokovic 2008 season vs Alcaraz 2023 season

Djokovic was 64-17 and won 4 titles Alcaraz is 63-9 and won 6 titles. Djokovic won a slam and made 2 semis. Alcaraz win a slam and made 2 semis Djokovic won 1 hard masters 1 clay masters and made 1 Cincinnati final Alcaraz won 1 hard masters 1 clay masters and made 1 Cincinnati final...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com

2008 Djokovic is superb. It's his decline in 2009/2010 which slowed down his rise.
 
NeutralFan said:
Djokovic showed the promise but it was only AO 2008 where he showed he can truly go all the way like Alcaraz showed at Wimbledon 2003. Besides AO 2008 Djokovic didn't look anywhere the player he would become later on.
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I agree 2008 Australia Djokovic was fantastic but it wasn’t the normal. He wasn’t consistent and I still say Alcaraz probably edges it.

We can only compare 19 Djokovic and early stages of 20 Djokovic vs 19 Alcaraz and early stages of Alcaraz 20. I think Alcaraz has the edge still overall for me so far.
 
Last edited:
That's not true.

Djokovic in 2007 post his birthday won Rogers cup beating top 3 guys in a row. Also made USO final and gave an entertaining match.

If we are talking about strictly 2008, then he beat Rafa in IW and won IW, won Rome and made to semis of Roland Garros again. He won ATP finals. It was not nothing outside of Australia. It was better than what Raz did in 2023.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
That's not true.

Djokovic in 2007 post his birthday won Rogers cup beating top 3 guys in a row. Also made USO final and gave an entertaining match.

If we are talking about strictly 2008, then he beat Rafa in IW and won IW, won Rome and made to semis of Roland Garros again. He won ATP finals. It was not nothing outside of Australia. It was better than what Raz did in 2023.
Click to expand...
He beat 4 top guys. He beat Nalbandian, Roddick, and Nadal; all in straight sets. Then, he took out Fed in 3. Let’s not forget that he won Miami in 2007 without dropping a set with his 131 mph serves, solid net play, and his laser of a forehand. That dude was probably the best slow hard court player in the game at that time(assumes AO with Rebound Ace is medium speed and USO is relatively fast).
 
Pheasant said:
He beat 4 top guys. He beat Nalbandian, Roddick, and Nadal; all in straight sets. Then, he took out Fed in 3. Let’s not forget that he won Miami in 2007 without dropping a set with his 131 mph serves, solid net play, and his laser of a forehand. That dude was probably the best slow hard court player in the game at that time(assumes AO with Rebound Ace is medium speed and USO is relatively fast).
Click to expand...
2007 Djokovic was pretty good :D

Comparing him to anyone under Alcaraz Medvedev and Zverev, no one else even won 2 masters a year post Andy Murray. So new 2 masters winners in past 20 years.

In last 20 years we got new 2 masters winners like this.

2004 Safin
2005 Nadal
2007 Djokovic
2008 Murray
2017 Zverev
2018 Medvedev
2022 Alcaraz

It's very rare to get a new 2 time masters winner.
 
daggerman said:
I don't think it's a worthwhile comparison. The sport was so much less physical when Djokovic was 20. I think a 20-year-old Novak would struggle mightily with the physicality and speed of today's tour.
Click to expand...
This is completely untrue. Who comes up with this stuff?
 
I don’t think it’s fair to use the exact birth year here because dates of birth may correspond with different parts of a season and thus don’t line up all that well.

It’s better to just take the season in which the player turned a certain age rather than simply counting the whole period in which they were a certain age.

For instance, 2023 Alcaraz would correspond with 2007 Djokovic or 2006 Nadal or 2001 Federer.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
I’d agree. I would put 2008 Djokovic slightly ahead of alcaraz. I put alcaraz ahead of 2007 Djokovic although it is still not massive gap.

Yeah fair enough to 2008 Djokovic is ahead but 2007 Djokovic is a bit behind for me.

We will see what alcaraz does in next few years as Djokovic went off the rails a bit in 2009/2010 years. We will see if Carlos does better there.
Click to expand...
Well I have a simple hypothesis.

If you put 2007 Djokovic in 2023, he wins 2 Masters and 1 slam like Raz (Miami, Canada, USO), but if you put 2023 Raz in 2007, he doesn't win anything except maybe Miami. He would get stomped by Fedal and he wasn't great after Wimbledon anyway.

So Raz beats 2007 Novak on floor and consistency, which is in line with Alcaraz being more mature than Novak at the same age, but Novak, while less consistent, hit some good heights on a few occasions.

2008 Novak is not even worth a comparison for me, slightly ahead doesn't do it justice. He was better virtually everywhere except Wimbledon. But then again, let's wait for 2024 Alcaraz to draw a comparison.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
2007 Djokovic was pretty good :D

Comparing him to anyone under Alcaraz Medvedev and Zverev, no one else even won 2 masters a year post Andy Murray. So new 2 masters winners in past 20 years.

In last 20 years we got new 2 masters winners like this.

2004 Safin
2005 Nadal
2007 Djokovic
2008 Murray
2017 Zverev
2018 Medvedev
2022 Alcaraz

It's very rare to get a new 2 time masters winner.
Click to expand...
That's some good info there.

2007 was actually a tough year for the Masters. That year featured the following winners of Masters events:
Nadal 3 titles
Djoker 2 titles
Nalbandian 2 titles
Federer 2 titles.

IW: Djoker lost the final to Nadal
Rome: Djoker was bumped off by Nadal in the QF, who went on to win the title
Madrid: Djoker was bumped off by Nalbandian in the SF; the same guy that beat Rafa 6-2 6-1 and Fed in the championship

Note: Nalbandian won the last 2 Masters of the year by beating Nadal and Federer TWICE each.

I.e, Djoker had 3 serious ballers to contend with at Masters events. As far as the slams go, he only lost to prime Fedal two times each.
 
Pheasant said:
That's some good info there.

2007 was actually a tough year for the Masters. That year featured the following winners of Masters events:
Nadal 3 titles
Djoker 2 titles
Nalbandian 2 titles
Federer 2 titles.

IW: Djoker lost the final to Nadal
Rome: Djoker was bumped off by Nadal in the QF, who went on to win the title
Madrid: Djoker was bumped off by Nalbandian in the SF; the same guy that beat Rafa 6-2 6-1 and Fed in the championship

Note: Nalbandian won the last 2 Masters of the year by beating Nadal and Federer TWICE each.

I.e, Djoker had 3 serious ballers to contend with at Masters events. As far as the slams go, he only lost to prime Fedal two times each.
Click to expand...
Wow I thought it was 1 masters in 2006 and another in 2007. 2007 was pretty heavyweight masters season.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
I agree 2008 Australia Djokovic was fantastic but it wasn’t the normal. He wasn’t consistent and I still say Alcaraz probably edges it.

We can only compare 19 Djokovic and early stages of 20 Djokovic vs 19 Alcaraz and early stages of Alcaraz 20. I think Alcaraz has the edge still overall for me so far.
Click to expand...
He does but 20 year old Djokovic had greater scope for improvement.
 
tudwell said:
Lmao
Click to expand...
Why? I said nothing but the truth. Even Djoker fans would admit that 2007 Nadal >>>>> 2023 Djokovic at Wimbledon.
One guy managed to push peak Roger Federer himself to 5 sets (and even outplayed him throughout most of the match), whilst the other guy lost to an inexperienced 20-year-old guy who never reached a single Wimbledon quarter-final before (until this year).
If Alcaraz played either 2007 Nadal or 2007 Federer at Wimbledon, he would have been slaughtered in straight sets, at worst, in 4.
But of course, no one can really blame Novak, because he is already 36 freaking years old! At the same age, Federer lost to Kevin Anderson and Nadal got pushed to 5 by Taylor Fritz, so there is no shame in Novak's loss this year. His consistency is still incredible, considering his age, it's just that his current level is nowhere even close to his peak (2011, 2014, 2015).
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
Why? I said nothing but the truth. Even Djoker fans would admit that 2007 Nadal >>>>> 2023 Djokovic at Wimbledon.
One guy managed to push peak Roger Federer himself to 5 sets (and even outplayed him throughout most of the match), whilst the other guy lost to an inexperienced 20-year-old guy who never reached a single Wimbledon quarter-final before (until this year).
If Alcaraz played either 2007 Nadal or 2007 Federer at Wimbledon, he would have been slaughtered in straight sets, at worst, in 4.
But of course, no one can really blame Novak, because he is already 36 freaking years old! At the same age, Federer lost to Kevin Anderson and Nadal got pushed to 5 by Taylor Fritz, so there is no shame in Novak's loss this year. His consistency is still incredible, considering his age, it's just that his current level is nowhere even close to his peak (2011, 2014, 2015).
Click to expand...
The way someone phrases a question tells a lot about the narrative being portrayed.

Users look at how they portray.

Peak, pushed to five
Vs 20 year old who never reached Wimbledon final ( not even Roger reached final till 21)
 
nachiket nolefam said:
The way someone phrases a question tells a lot about the narrative being portrayed.

Users look at how they portray.

Peak, pushed to five
Vs 20 year old who never reached Wimbledon final ( not even Roger reached final till 21)
Click to expand...
Please my message carefully. Alcaraz had not even reached QUARTER-final until this year, whereas Federer DID reach the quarters at only 19 years of age, and that too in an epic style by defeating Pete Sampras himself, the 4-time defending champion.
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
Please my message carefully. Alcaraz had not even reached QUARTER-final until this year, whereas Federer DID reach the quarters at only 19 years of age, and that too in an epic style by defeating Pete Sampras himself, the 4-time defending champion.
Click to expand...
Besides, it is clear as day, even just by using your eyes, as well as looking at the match statistics, ELO ratings etc. that 2007 Nadal is a FAR better grass court player than 2023 Djokovic.
 
Megafanoftennis100 said:
Why? I said nothing but the truth. Even Djoker fans would admit that 2007 Nadal >>>>> 2023 Djokovic at Wimbledon.
One guy managed to push peak Roger Federer himself to 5 sets (and even outplayed him throughout most of the match), whilst the other guy lost to an inexperienced 20-year-old guy who never reached a single Wimbledon quarter-final before (until this year).
If Alcaraz played either 2007 Nadal or 2007 Federer at Wimbledon, he would have been slaughtered in straight sets, at worst, in 4.
But of course, no one can really blame Novak, because he is already 36 freaking years old! At the same age, Federer lost to Kevin Anderson and Nadal got pushed to 5 by Taylor Fritz, so there is no shame in Novak's loss this year. His consistency is still incredible, considering his age, it's just that his current level is nowhere even close to his peak (2011, 2014, 2015).
Click to expand...
Winning one set against Nadal (who'd already been pushed to five twice that fortnight) is "easily more impressive" than dethroning the four-time defending champ? That just seems ridiculous to me. You can argue that Nadal's overall level in 07 was higher than Alcaraz's in 23 (I'd most definitely agree Nadal was better in the final), but I don't think there's any argument that Djokovic's level in 07 was higher than Alcaraz's in 23. And winning one set in the semis before retiring is not even in the same universe of achievements as Alcaraz defeating a seven-time champ in the final.
 
tudwell said:
Winning one set against Nadal (who'd already been pushed to five twice that fortnight) is "easily more impressive" than dethroning the four-time defending champ? That just seems ridiculous to me. You can argue that Nadal's overall level in 07 was higher than Alcaraz's in 23 (I'd most definitely agree Nadal was better in the final), but I don't think there's any argument that Djokovic's level in 07 was higher than Alcaraz's in 23. And winning one set in the semis before retiring is not even in the same universe of achievements as Alcaraz defeating a seven-time champ in the final.
Click to expand...
Being a four-time Wimbledon champion in this era means nothing. Even a Djokovic fan would agree that Djokovic's Wimbledon victories were largely thanks to a severely weak era full of players who are incapable of excelling on grass. Even Mario Ancic (who was actually a great grass courter) could win Wimbledon in this era. No Wimbledon champion in history has ever had it easier than Djokovic's last 3 Wimbledon titles and the only reason he is considered the GOAT is because he actually has a record of dominating in the strong era (2008-2013), along with his other achievements
Although of course, other than his last 3 Wimbledon titles, I do still find his performances in the other non-grass Slams legitimately great, because at least, there is some competition on clay and hard, unlike on grass these days.
Also, yes, I do acknowledge that the 1st week of Nadal's 2007 Wimbledon run was not too great, but his performance in the 2nd week was much better and he played at an ATG level. Semi-finals did take place in the 2nd week, after all. And as I have said, 2nd-week-of-Wimbledon-2007 Nadal would obliterate both 2023 Djokovic and 2023 Alcaraz in straight sets, no tiebreaks needed. With Alcaraz, it is a fair comparison because they are around the same age, but of course, for Novak, I do admit it would be very unfair, because it is 21 year old vs 36 year old, so yeah fine.
 
sportsfan1 said:
Comms like courier say nadalovic at 20 had weaknesses that carl doesn't have. Example Djokovic at 20 was bad at the front of the court, had serve issues and his fh was a weakness.
And carl has better results.
Click to expand...
Djokovic was baseline beast then. Carlos is more complete at this moment though. Even going as late as 2013, Djokovic had some stroke like his slice which were pretty average. His ability to mix up pace was good but not near what Carlos can do now.
 
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