Hot Take: 20-year-old Djokovic is better than 20-year-old Alcaraz

Who is better at 20 years old, Djokovic or Alcaraz?

  • Djokovic

    Votes: 28 38.9%
  • Alcaraz

    Votes: 38 52.8%
  • About the same

    Votes: 6 8.3%

  • Total voters
    72
There's a better chance of 36-year-old Carlos being better than 36-year-old Novak.
Novak didn't even have a well-rounded game at 20-years-old, let alone a slam-winning game.
Even by age 26 the dopey oaf had really unreliable smash.
 
I don't think it's a worthwhile comparison. The sport was so much less physical when Djokovic was 20. I think a 20-year-old Novak would struggle mightily with the physicalityand speed of today's tour.
WRONG! Tennis was very physical in 07. Equipment may have changed since then but Novak is still competing very well, in today's game.
 
You may well be right. Wonder how 07-08 djokovic does with Alcaraz 22-23 comp.

22 AO - loses to Nadal or Medvedev
22 RG - loses to Nadal
22 W - loses to Djokovic
22 USO - defeats Sinner/Ruud

23 AO - very good chance he defeats his older self
23 RG - very good chance
23 W - loses
23 USO - good chance vs older self

Masters - wins 1 IW, Miami, Madrid, Rome, Canada, Cincy at least and probably Paris too.
YEC - wins 23.

Can see 2-4 slams for youngovic, 6-7 masters and a YEC.
 
Eh, I wouldn't say Djokovic wins AO 2007 without Federer. Roddick could beat him, González too. He was unlucky to face him early (4th round IIRC), if not he could have gone far.


But with no Fedal around he is the huge favorite in the other 3. I'm not saying he wins them all consecutively but taken in isolation in each of them he is a big favorite.
 
Eh, I wouldn't say Djokovic wins AO 2007 without Federer. Roddick could beat him, González too. He was unlucky to face him early (4th round IIRC), if not he could have gone far.


But with no Fedal around he is the huge favorite in the other 3. I'm not saying he wins them all consecutively but taken in isolation in each of them he is a big favorite.
Roddick would run him close at USO. Wouldn’t give him an auto win.

RG would have his hands full with Davydenko but give him the edge to prevail.

W he wins if fit. Draw opened up when Roddick crashed out after 2 sets. Gasquet won’t win.
 
Roddick would run him close at USO. Wouldn’t give him an auto win.

RG would have his hands full with Davydenko but give him the edge to prevail.

W he wins if fit. Draw opened up when Roddick crashed out after 2 sets. Gasquet won’t win.


Roddick wouldn't be easy at the USO, but he beat him at Montreal a few weeks prior and Roddick wasn't that great overall in 2007, so I give Djokovic the edge.
 
snoozy.. do your homework.

Yeah Safin was such a great grass courter and in prime in 2008 not washed up for sure. Why Djoko b 0 ts pretend to be fan of other players? Rf 18, Nadal Django ,Djokodal and now we have you with Fed dp lol.

Also, tennis didn't start in 2011 for me like most Djokovic fans lol, so you gotta do your home work.
 
Same Novak who was getting straight setted by washed up Safin?

Funny how you choose the ONLY defeat Djokovic had in the whole of 2007 and 2008 at slams that was to someone else other than Fedal.

And to a guy that also beat Sampras, Agassi and Federer at slams.
 
Funny how you choose the ONLY defeat Djokovic had in the whole of 2007 and 2008 at slams that was to someone else other than Fedal.

And to a guy that also beat Sampras, Agassi and Federer at slams.

Learn to read well, i said washed up Safin . Safin was washed up when he beat Novak in straights at Wimbledon and grass was not even his favoured surface ffs.
 
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Honestly, I think Djokovic at 20 years is very underrated. He was overshadowed because he constantly had to play against Federer and Nadal in their primes, when Djokovic himself was not yet in his prime.
2007-2008 Djokovic faced significantly tougher competition than 2022-2023 Alcaraz. Djokovic had prime Fedal in their mid 20s, whereas Alcaraz has a 36 year old Djokovic who is nearing retirement and is a shadow of the player he was back in 2011-2016.

Let's compare the paths to Grand Slams that Djokovic and Alcaraz had in 2007 and 2023 respectively:

2007 AO - Djokovic was beating everyone except for peak Federer having the best AO run of his life.
2007 RG - Djokovic was beating everyone except for near-prime Nadal. Although I think he would have lost to Federer in the final even if Nadal were absent. But without Fed as well? Yeah, he most likely wins the tournament.
2007 Wimby - Djokovic was beating everyone except for near-prime Nadal, who went on to give peak Federer a run for his money in the final.
2007 USO - Djokovic was beating everyone except for peak Federer, and almost went 2-0 in sets. Carlos would have been destroyed by 2007 Federer at USO.

2023 AO - Alcaraz did not participate.
2023 RG - Alcaraz got cramps mid-match against a 36-year-old Djokovic, whose worst surface is clay. 2007 Fedal on clay would obliterate Carlos.
2023 WB - Alcaraz won this, but he barely managed to win against a 36 year old Djokovic in a very close 5-setter, which could easily have gone either way (also, Djokovic choked a bit on crucial moments). Winning a set against 2007 Nadal at Wimby is easily more impressive than this. And if there were no Federer or Nadal, Djokovic would have very likely won Wimbledon 2007.
2023 USO - Alcaraz lost to Medvedev, and yes, Medvedev played a phenomenal match, but still, 2007 Federer >> 2023 Medvedev.

For Djokovic, he was advancing far into all four Slams and he lost only to prime Fedal. He was easily the 3rd best player in 3/4 Slams in 2007 (I wouldn’t count AO, because he was convincingly knocked out in the 4th round). If prime Fedal did not exist, Nole would have won RG, Wimby and USO that year, along with two Masters 1000 titles which he already won.
As for Alcaraz, he lost to a 36-year-old past-prime Djokovic and Medvedev. He won 2 Masters this season so far, but never had to face anyone on the level of 2007 Fedal. On the other hand, look at Djokovic, who in 2007, beat Nadal AND Federer back-to-back to win Montreal! And don't forget that Nole could have completed the Sunshine Double in 2007, had Nadal not beaten him at Indian Wells. So that's 3 potential Masters 1000 titles in the absence of prime Fedal.

To summarize:
Big Titles that Alcaraz could have won this season in the absence of a prime ATG player - remains the same as it is: Wimbledon, Indian Wells, Madrid - 3
Big Titles that Djokovic could have won in 2007 in the absence of a prime ATG player - RG, Wimbledon, USO, Indian Wells, Miami, Montreal - 6, or possibly even more, because winning all those titles would have given him a serious confidence boost.
20-year old Alcaraz isn't really much better than 20-year old Djokovic. The latter was just unlucky to be overshadowed by prime Fedal before reaching his own prime.
Couldn't he have won FO if Djokovic wasn't there?
 
Honestly, I think Djokovic at 20 years is very underrated. He was overshadowed because he constantly had to play against Federer and Nadal in their primes, when Djokovic himself was not yet in his prime.
2007-2008 Djokovic faced significantly tougher competition than 2022-2023 Alcaraz. Djokovic had prime Fedal in their mid 20s, whereas Alcaraz has a 36 year old Djokovic who is nearing retirement and is a shadow of the player he was back in 2011-2016.

Let's compare the paths to Grand Slams that Djokovic and Alcaraz had in 2007 and 2023 respectively:

2007 AO - Djokovic was beating everyone except for peak Federer having the best AO run of his life.
2007 RG - Djokovic was beating everyone except for near-prime Nadal. Although I think he would have lost to Federer in the final even if Nadal were absent. But without Fed as well? Yeah, he most likely wins the tournament.
2007 Wimby - Djokovic was beating everyone except for near-prime Nadal, who went on to give peak Federer a run for his money in the final.
2007 USO - Djokovic was beating everyone except for peak Federer, and almost went 2-0 in sets. Carlos would have been destroyed by 2007 Federer at USO.

2023 AO - Alcaraz did not participate.
2023 RG - Alcaraz got cramps mid-match against a 36-year-old Djokovic, whose worst surface is clay. 2007 Fedal on clay would obliterate Carlos.
2023 WB - Alcaraz won this, but he barely managed to win against a 36 year old Djokovic in a very close 5-setter, which could easily have gone either way (also, Djokovic choked a bit on crucial moments). Winning a set against 2007 Nadal at Wimby is easily more impressive than this. And if there were no Federer or Nadal, Djokovic would have very likely won Wimbledon 2007.
2023 USO - Alcaraz lost to Medvedev, and yes, Medvedev played a phenomenal match, but still, 2007 Federer >> 2023 Medvedev.

For Djokovic, he was advancing far into all four Slams and he lost only to prime Fedal. He was easily the 3rd best player in 3/4 Slams in 2007 (I wouldn’t count AO, because he was convincingly knocked out in the 4th round). If prime Fedal did not exist, Nole would have won RG, Wimby and USO that year, along with two Masters 1000 titles which he already won.
As for Alcaraz, he lost to a 36-year-old past-prime Djokovic and Medvedev. He won 2 Masters this season so far, but never had to face anyone on the level of 2007 Fedal. On the other hand, look at Djokovic, who in 2007, beat Nadal AND Federer back-to-back to win Montreal! And don't forget that Nole could have completed the Sunshine Double in 2007, had Nadal not beaten him at Indian Wells. So that's 3 potential Masters 1000 titles in the absence of prime Fedal.

To summarize:
Big Titles that Alcaraz could have won this season in the absence of a prime ATG player - remains the same as it is: Wimbledon, Indian Wells, Madrid - 3
Big Titles that Djokovic could have won in 2007 in the absence of a prime ATG player - RG, Wimbledon, USO, Indian Wells, Miami, Montreal - 6, or possibly even more, because winning all those titles would have given him a serious confidence boost.
20-year old Alcaraz isn't really much better than 20-year old Djokovic. The latter was just unlucky to be overshadowed by prime Fedal before reaching his own prime.
what a whole lotta crap, absurd in every possible way
 
Learn to read well, i said washed up Safin . Safin was washed up when he beat Novak in straights at Wimbledon and grass was not even his favoured surface ffs.

You should learn to read "washed up" or not doesn't change the fact it was his only defeat against someone else other than Fedal in 2 years. And "washed up" or not he played a great match. Grass wasn't Djokovic's favored surface either.
 
Djoker should have had a higher reward on grass in 07-08 imo. Was making a great match of it vs Nadal in 07 before his injury and then played really well in the 08 Queen’s final. Just didn’t have the consistency at that stage to back it up at Wim 08. So Alc’s 23 > because he managed to stay healthy and consistent for a whole Wim rather than a smaller tourney

(Djoker is miles clear on the other surfaces anyway)
 
Djoker should have had a higher reward on grass in 07-08 imo. Was making a great match of it vs Nadal in 07 before his injury and then played really well in the 08 Queen’s final. Just didn’t have the consistency at that stage to back it up at Wim 08. So Alc’s 23 > because he managed to stay healthy and consistent for a whole Wim rather than a smaller tourney

(Djoker is miles clear on the other surfaces anyway)
Djokovic is 2 inches taller than Raz at the least. The lowest height for atg servers is 6'1"


Alcaraz failed to make the cut so he won't be a problem to Nole legacy wise. He needed at least 1 more inch.
 
Without serve you can't dominate as much. Alcaraz will most likely have more successful 21st and 22nd years than Djokovic. But at age 20 Djokovic with his massive serve advantage is ahead. He used to hit the serve big in 2007/2008.
 
In 2008 Djokovic was in top 10 servers by effectiveness. This includes percentage serves in and serve dominance.
In 2007 he was at number 20. But let's discard that. Djokovic was showing huge serving potential.

In 2023 Raz was at number 24.
 
Alcaraz developed physically super fast and still is behind Djokovic at the age 20. Djokovic by 2008 was a player near world number 1 calibre but that is still 1 year more than Raz. So Raz is not going to keep up with the pace Djokovic kept on post 2011.
 
You should learn to read "washed up" or not doesn't change the fact it was his only defeat against someone else other than Fedal in 2 years. And "washed up" or not he played a great match. Grass wasn't Djokovic's favored surface either.

Safin was washed up in 2008, it is what it is. Your hero got straight setted by him . It is what it is. On top of that grass was his least favourite surface lol.
 
Safin was washed up in 2008, it is what it is. Your hero got straight setted by him . It is what it is. On top of that grass was his least favourite surface lol.

You are acting as if he lost to some random mug the following match lol. He made the semifinals and lost to Federer.

And grass was Djokovic's least favorite surface back then too :rolleyes:.

And even if he had lost to Berlocq who cares, the point is all the other defeats those two years were exclusively to Federer and Nadal.
 
Alcaraz at age 20.

Won Wimbledon queens and IW 3 titles. If I am missing any let me know. Just 2 big titles.
Slam results
SF W SF QF

Djokovic at age 20
Won Rogers cup Vienna Australian open IW ( not sure about Rome but counting it), 3/4 big titles
Slam results
QF SF F W

In both slams and big tournaments Djokovic is ahead. But he was ranked lower than Raz at the same age.

Djokovic hype 20%
Raz hype 100%

It's not about hype only though.
 
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Alcaraz at age 20.

Won Wimbledon queens and IW 3 titles. If I am missing any let me know. Just 2 big titles.
Slam results
SF W SF QF

Djokovic at age 20
Won Rogers cup Australian open IW ( not sure about Rome but counting it), 3/4 big titles
Slam results
QF SF F W

In both slams and big tournaments Djokovic is ahead. But he was ranked lower than Raz at the same age.

Djokovic hype 20%
Raz hype 100%

It's not about hype only though.
Alcaraz also won Madrid, plus youre counting diferent years for each player, even tought they shared the same age for some part of the season
 
Adding Madrid for alcaraz to go to 3 big titles. equal to Djokovic now.

But in slams djokovic is a touch ahead.
Alcaraz won more titles and couldnt even play the australian open, besides did you watch that year from Djokovic? I did, and he didnt play nearly as impressive as Alcaraz, but keep cherrypicking so you can say he had a better year
 
Alcaraz won more titles and couldnt even play the australian open, besides did you watch that year from Djokovic? I did, and he didnt play nearly as impressive as Alcaraz, but keep cherrypicking so you can say he had a better year
Alcaraz did not win more titles.

Djokovic won 4. Vienna Rogers cup IW and AO
Alcaraz won 4. Madrid Queens Wimbledon IW.
 
Which year? In late 2007/early 2008 Djokovic was very impressive.
Overall, its true that Alcaraz had a worse second part of the season, but he outplayed everyone for a lot of the year and he was playing great at uso, It took a redlining medvedev Who played one of the best if not the best match ive seen from him, you just didnt get the same feeling of overplaying with early Djokovic, he was good, but Alcaraz was crazy
 
L
DNP
L

You are giving 19 year old Raz stats to 20 year old Raz.
What kind of cherrypicking is this? Im counting the whole season man, and i made a mistake he Lost that río final because of an injury against freaking norrie, Who he was overplaying before he could move
 
What kind of cherrypicking is this? Im counting the whole season man, and i made a mistake he Lost that río final because of an injury against freaking norrie, Who he was overplaying before he could move
No I don't want to reply more on this.

I said 20 year old. No cherry picking.
 
Alcaraz and Djokovic both are born in May. There is 1 slam and 3 masters if not 4 already complete before their birthday. Djokovic almost half the calensdar.
 
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