Hot take: Djokovic in 2015 could have brought out his 2011 level at any time, but chose not to.

[StrongRule]

Everybody was a punching bag for the big 3 mostly, except Wawrinka and Murray on occassion and even they ended up with bad h2h records, except Murray/Federer. You're talking about the field as the reason when you ignore Djokovic has the most top 10 wins every year in the last 13 out of 15 seasons. It's not limited to 2015 or 2016. 2017 was a weak year and definitely weaker than 2023 unless you have serious blinders on, which we know is also a yes.

That's why Djokovic has the worst fanbase. You just can't be taken seriously. (not that it wasn't known before)

2023 is the weakest year in history, and it is not even close. That is clear to everyone who is not a fanboy.

 

[RS]

Once StrongRule shows up and people engage with him it's always a good thread.

 

[Neptune]

Once StrongRule shows up and people engage with him it's always a good thread.

But he has nothing more than salty feelings?

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Wait by shorts do you mean these YT shorts like the one you quoted that show amazing points or do you mean the shorts he was wearing that match?

Both bro! Haha

 

[NoleFam]

That's why Djokovic has the worst fanbase. You just can't be taken seriously. (not that it wasn't known before)

2023 is the weakest year in history, and it is not even close. That is clear to everyone who is not a fanboy.

Dimitrov ended 2017 at #3 with 5100 points (massive LOL), while Medvedev is sitting on 7600 points right now, but oh no 2017 was definitely a better year than this. Nadal is not playing so you have nothing to be happy about and really don't like the game unless he's playing. I really don't see you watching this game when he retires anyway. Yet you see others as fanboys when you're the most deluded one on this forum. What a joke.

 

[StrongRule]

Dimitrov ended 2017 at #3 with 5100 points (massive LOL), while Medvedev is sitting on 7200 points right now, but oh no 2017 was definitely a better year than this. Nadal is not playing so you have nothing to be happy about and really don't like the game unless he's playing. I really don't see you watching this game when he retires anyway. Yet you see others as fanboys when you're the most deluded one on this forum. What a joke.

I said about lots of years that they are a weak era. For you it depends on how much Djokovic is winning - the more he wins, the stronger the year is, even if he did it by beating absolute joke players like Tsitsipas and Ruud. (and yeah, I also heard you hype one win of Tsitsipas over a 35 years old Nadal, one match in an overall 2-5000 record against top players. That definitely proves he is strong. No need to repeat this BS again) And yet you call someone a joke.

 

[Neptune]

I said about lots of years that they are a weak era. For you it depends on how much Djokovic is winning - the more he wins, the stronger the year is, even if he did it by beating absolute joke players like Tsitsipas and Ruud. And yet you call someone a joke.

Rafa still far less top10 wins with all the weak era you assigned to

 

[NoleFam]

I said about lots of years that they are a weak era. For you it depends on how much Djokovic is winning - the more he wins, the stronger the year is, even if he did it by beating absolute joke players like Tsitsipas and Ruud. (and yeah, I also heard you hype one win of Tsitsipas over a 35 years old Nadal, one match in an overall 2-5000 record against top players. That definitely proves he is strong. No need to repeat this BS again) And yet you call someone a joke.

Go home, you're drunk.

 

[NoleFam]

Rafa still far less top10 wins with all the weak era you assigned to

Which is what this rant is all about. Nadal has nearly 70 less top 10 wins so it's meaningless since Djokovic was beating bums, while Nadal wasn't good enough to beat the same bums Lol.

 

[StrongRule]

Go home, you're drunk.

 

[RS]

Djoko
Tsonga
Djoko
Who cares
Same as above

2 who cares is a record

 

[junior74]

It’s true, he brought out his 2011 RG form when he lost to another Swiss player with a OHBH

Mmmm. You haven't posted this for a few weeks, amigo...

Thanks

 

[Biotic]

2 who cares is a record

I tried to answer truthfully.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

That’s a pretty gross allegation to make against not one but two players. It’s not like Stan went from being a guy who would notoriously retire repeatedly only to turn into Superman overnight.

From laughing stock of the tour physically to much fitter than the fittest player in history in just one brief offseason, all by cutting out gluten in a player who admits he doesn’t have celiac disease…

 

[Tennfan123]

Lol. That’s pure fan think.
Pros that good don’t do that.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

Djokovic in 2015 made all 4 Slam finals, the final of the ATP Finals, and 8 of 9 Masters finals. He didn't play the 9th one. I really don't think that will ever be duplicated.

Djokovic in 2011 was more relentless baseline domination (43 wins in a row) but 2015 had more sustained efficiency with more levels in his game in my opinion ( better serve and a better all court player).

Djokovic at Wimbledon 2015 was definitely a superior player than Wimbledon 2011. I generally view it as his clear grass peak, do Djokovic fans view it the same?

 

[NoleFam]

Djokovic at Wimbledon 2015 was definitely a superior player than Wimbledon 2011. I generally view it as his clear grass peak, do Djokovic fans view it the same?

Yea in my opinion, it's the highest level Djokovic ever played at Wimbledon.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

From laughing stock of the tour physically to much fitter than the fittest player in history in just one brief offseason, all by cutting out gluten in a player who admits he doesn’t have celiac disease…

This has always been the most suspicious thing I've ever seen in tennis

 

[Neptune]

I said about lots of years that they are a weak era. For you it depends on how much Djokovic is winning - the more he wins, the stronger the year is, even if he did it by beating absolute joke players like Tsitsipas and Ruud. (and yeah, I also heard you hype one win of Tsitsipas over a 35 years old Nadal, one match in an overall 2-5000 record against top players. That definitely proves he is strong. No need to repeat this BS again) And yet you call someone a joke.

For Nole on HC the last 10 years:
Rafa is someone not even able to take ONE set
Yet some of Rafa fans can still laugh at other top10

 

[Neptune]

This has always been the most suspicious thing I've ever seen in tennis

It is the other way around if ANYTHING!
The chosen/pumped one/two vs their No.1 rivalry
Someone really need some logic reality check.

 

[ALCARAZWON]

So 2011 and 2015 was the highest level of Djokovic's career and he still sucked
Federer destroyed Djokovic at Roland Garros 2011.
And Wawrinka destroyed Djokovic at Roland Garros 2015.
Djokovic couldn't even get to a 5th Set in either of them....
And Nadal was hitting the softest balls of his career in 2015 (and lost to Murray+Wawrinka in straight sets on clay!) and still came back from 0-4 down in the 1st Set to get to 5-5 vs. Djokovic at RG.

 

[RS]

So 2011 and 2015 was the highest level of Djokovic's career and he still sucked
Federer destroyed Djokovic at Roland Garros 2011.
And Wawrinka destroyed Djokovic at Roland Garros 2015.
Djokovic couldn't even get to a 5th Set in either of them....
And Nadal was hitting the softest balls of his career in 2015 (and lost to Murray+Wawrinka in straight sets on clay!) and still came back from 0-4 down in the 1st Set to get into a tiebreaker vs. Djokovic at RG.

That's my problem with people say Djokovic is top 3 on clay in open era. That he didn't beat one of Fed or Stan.

 

[Neptune]

That's my problem with people say Djokovic is top 3 on clay in open era. That he didn't beat one of Fed or Stan.

It just shows the quality of competition on CC when Nole and Fed both top5 in open era

 

[RS]

It just shows the quality of competition on CC when Nole and Fed both top5 in open era

Wouldn't that mean your saying Nole had it easy in his RG wins?

 

[Biotic]

That's my problem with people say Djokovic is top 3 on clay in open era. That he didn't beat one of Fed or Stan.

Do you have a problem with Nadal in 3 of his best seasons not beating Tsonga, Murray and Ferrer on HC and Darcis on grass?

I agree Djoko is not Top 3 on clay. He's easily Top 10.

But where should we put Nadal then... Top 20 on HC and Top 30 on grass?

 

[mike danny]

True, none of us, but 2006 Federer would have smoked Roddick

Well, he didn’t

 

[RS]

Do you have a problem with Nadal in 3 of his best seasons not beating Tsonga, Murray and Ferrer on HC and Darcis on grass?

I agree Djoko is not Top 3 on clay. He's easily Top 10.

But where should we put Nadal then... Top 20 on HC and Top 30 on grass?

That was about Djokovic not Nadal chill

I don't rank Nadal top 3 either there on a separate note

 

[Neptune]

Wouldn't that mean your saying Nole had it easy in his RG wins?

I am just showing the obvious, easy or not whatever you want.

Open Era Top 10 Ranking at Roland Garros​

 

[Biotic]

That was about Djokovic not Nadal chill

I don't rank Nadal top 3 either on a separate note

I'm asking some reasonable questions lol. You can duck them lol

 

[RS]

I'm asking some reasonable questions lol. You can duck them lol

I rank Nadal lower off clay for some those reasons. I do believe Wim 08 was a huge win but Nadal was inconsistent on grass and HC for decent periods like 2012-2017 on grass especially .

Anyway that post was about Djokovic which is what the thread is about

 

[NoleFam]

That's my problem with people say Djokovic is top 3 on clay in open era. That he didn't beat one of Fed or Stan.

You can add Federer and Wawrinka's wins over Nadal on clay and double them, and they still won't be as many as Djokovic has over him. Djokovic's clay career alone, which is his worst surface, is greater than Wawrinka's total career on every surface. He's not some benchmark. Lol.

 

[mtommer]

But I have a feeling that Djokovic was simply trying to conserve energy in 2015 by refraining from going completely all out in matches unless absolutely necessary.

Okay. Agree or not? Why? What's it matter if anyone agrees or not? Do you feel your opinion is more valid because others may agree? My opinion is that he's a doper and as a result I think all of his successes are invalid. I don't need anyone else to agree or not. If Djokovic could convince me otherwise, as in Djokivic himself not anyone here, I would tip my hat to his achievements. Put another way, go ask Djokivic if your opinion is correct or not. What good does it serve to ask anyone here?

 

[Biotic]

I rank Nadal lower off clay for some those reasons. I do believe Wim 08 was a huge win but Nadal was inconsistent on grass and HC for decent periods like 2012-2017 on grass especially .

Anyway that post was about Djokovic which is what the thread is about

Most threads are either about Djoko or you make them about Djoko

I'm probably just tired of listening to the same crap about Djoko's losses while Nadal consistently gets a free pass on the exact same stuff.

 

[Neptune]

Okay. Agree or not? Why? What's it matter if anyone agrees or not? Do you feel your opinion is more valid because others may agree? My opinion is that he's a doper and as a result I think all of his successes are invalid. I don't need anyone else to agree or not. If Djokovic could convince me otherwise, as in Djokivic himself not anyone here, I would tip my hat to his achievements. Put another way, go ask Djokivic if your opinion is correct or not. What good does it serve to ask anyone here?

The chosen/pumped one/two vs their No.1 rivalry
Someone really need some logic reality check.

It is the other way around if ANYTHING!

 

[Neptune]

Most threads are either about Djoko or you make them about Djoko

I'm probably just tired of listening to the same crap about Djoko's losses while Nadal consistently gets a free pass on the exact same stuff.

A free pass on HC slam against Davydenko too

 

[RS]

Most threads are either about Djoko or you make them about Djoko

I'm probably just tired of listening to the same crap about Djoko's losses

Nadal doesn't get a pass lol. People might say he had better top wins like Fed Wim 08 but the context on losing matches to lesser players is always counter point.

 

[Biotic]

Nadal doesn't get a pass lol. People might say he had better top wins like Fed Wim 08 but the context on losing matches to lesser players is always counter point.

Sorry but i just don't see it. It's not even a contest between sheer number of posts about say 2015 RG and 2008 AO etc.

 

[mtommer]

The chosen/pumped one/two vs their No.1 rivalry
Someone really need some logic reality check.

It is the other way around if ANYTHING!

Huh? If you're referencing Nadal, I'd say they both are. As to logic, there is no logic involved. I wasn't making an argument. It's my opinion based on commonalities seen with known doper performances. That doesn't make me right or wrong hence no "argument".

 

[RS]

Sorry but i just don't see it. It's not even a contest between sheer number of posts about say 2015 RG and 2008 AO etc.

Sure but babydal off clay was more the meme rather than just AO 2008.

 

[Biotic]

Sure but babydal off clay was more the meme rather than just AO 2008.

Pick any slam match he lost in his best years (08, 10, 13 or any other really) and compare it to 2011/2015 RG, 2013 W, 2014 USO etc., you'll get the same thing.

It's the widespread feeling that Djokovic should win everything everywhere or bust, while Nadal is all good as long as he wins RG only.

 

[RS]

Pick any slam match he lost in his best years (08, 10, 13 or any other really) and compare it to 2011/2015 RG, 2013 W, 2014 USO etc., you'll get the same thing.

It's the widespread feeling that Djokovic should win everything everywhere or bust, while Nadal is all good as long as he wins RG only.

Might be a anti Djokovic agenda idk.

Keep in mind most competition debates have been Fed vs Djokovic on here since 2015 or so by a long shot. So a lot of it will naturally reflect this.

 

[RS]

Djokovic at Wimbledon 2015 was definitely a superior player than Wimbledon 2011. I generally view it as his clear grass peak, do Djokovic fans view it the same?

@King No1e thinks Djokovic was better in Wim 2011.

 

[King No1e]

@King No1e thinks Djokovic was better in Wim 2011.

You got that right. 2015 Nole was a more complete player, bigger serve better net game more steady. But 2011 Nole would clean anyone's clock the way he was gripping & ripping from the baseline

Edit: clean anyone's clock**. Mybad

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

You got that right. 2015 Nole was a more complete player, bigger serve better net game more steady. But 2011 Nole would clean anyone's clock the way he was gripping & ripping from the baseline

2011 still makes no sense to me how in just a couple months he went from 2010 always losing to fedal to 2011 being his best or 2nd best career season even now...

It makes no sense at all leaping from an inferior career form to possibly his greatest ever... overnight

 

[King No1e]

2011 still makes no sense to me how in just a couple months he went from 2010 always losing to fedal to 2011 being his best or 2nd best career season even now...

Fitness and mindset. He had the undiagnosed gluten intolerance which was killing his endurance. As soon as he fixed his diet and fitness routine, he went from retiring 2 hours into matches to winning a 6 hour one against Nadal.

 

[Cortana]

2011 still makes no sense to me how in just a couple months he went from 2010 always losing to fedal to 2011 being his best or 2nd best career season even now...

It makes no sense at all leaping from an inferior career form to possibly his greatest ever... overnight

He beat Federer in the USO 2010 after facing 2 MP?

 

[BauerAlmeida]

You're right I have no evidence and I'm not actively making an accusation so please don't go overboard with what i said but personally for me, I remember at the time all the media talking about Federer being out for a brief period of time and lots of threads about him maybe being at the final tether of his career and suddenly Wawrinka comes out and starts playing like he's got unlimited stamina after a career of doing almost nothing up until that point. I feel it's healthy to stay skeptical.

And what does Federer have to do with Wawrinka?

 

[Cabeza del Demonio]

People very often claim that even though Djokovic achieved better numbers in 2015 than he did in 2011, his level in 2011 was “significantly” higher.
But I have a feeling that Djokovic was simply trying to conserve energy in 2015 by refraining from going completely all out in matches unless absolutely necessary.

In 2011, he was smacking shots like his life depended on it and was playing relentless ferocious tennis, but it was clearly unsustainable and cost him the last 3 months of the season. After the US Open, he performed very poorly (for his standards) — he accumulated 5/6 of his losses for the season, did not even make the semi-finals of the ATP Finals and got BAGELLED by Nishikori!!
A phenomenal start to a season (perhaps the best start ever) followed by an insipid finish.

I think that in 2015, he learned his lesson from 4 years ago and decided to avoid overexerting himself, so that he could play at a more sustainable level that could last longer throughout the season. I don’t believe that it would have been impossible for him to re-awaken his 2011 beast-mode. I meant, come on, he was only 28 years old in 2015 and was still well in is physical prime. But I think that he wanted to take better care of his body - after all, this is the same man who was willing to sacrifice his career just to stand by his principles about his body.

But what do you guys think? Would you agree? Or not?

The level he brought out in 2015 wouldn't have cut it against Nadal in 2011. He had to put his entire heart and soul into those 9 months of 2011, otherwise he would've been eaten alive by arguably the most stacked top roster in history.
By 2015 his main competition was an older (but smarter) Federer, as well as Murray (who was consistent but didn't have the mindset to threaten Djokovic) and Wawrinka (who would show up a couple times a year before disappearing into the wilderness). Nadal was a non-factor, and the likes of Berdych, Ferrer, and Tsonga, who gave the big 4 nightmares in '11, were all fading by '15. A solid field to be sure, but not one that Djokovic needed to break his back against.

 

[uscwang]

Novak was a better player in 2015 with Becker on his team compared to himself in 2011. He learned from the many final losses from 2012 to 2014 and decided to play high-percentage tennis which suffocated all of his opponents most of the time. But occasionally, it failed, like against Stan in RG 2015. Stan played a great match. Meanwhile, Novak was under the pressure to win his 1st RG and played way too passively.
Novak's problem solving skill came from his 1.5 decade long battle against Nadal and Federer. He is the only one to figure out Fedal, ending the Fedal duopoly twice, in 2011 and 2018. After Fedal, there is no player difficult for him to figure out after a few matches.
I enjoy the ride as a Novak fan, but understand why so many in the other fan bases have gone nuts.