How are my groudnies?

Dragy

Legend
Hey mate, props for posting and striving to improve!

Based on this video only:
On FH you under-use your torso rotattion and arm the ball. Arm action itself is good.
It's possibly associated with being rushed and late with contact point - as is your weird hop. Practice with abbreviated takeback, but ensure that you:
- Rotate your chest to face at least flat forward before letting arm go for the ball:


- Meet the ball farther in front, earlier:


- Get rid of the hop, don't allow the ball to push you back (tough against the wall sometimes, hence abbreviated takeback, but 100% solid forward contact and posture). Move forward as you hit, then step back to recover.

On your BH: looks solid, but again, don't get pushed back - move forward to hit, step back to recover.

Good luck with your development!
 

Manhattan

New User
Thanks Dragy for your feedback,

I know I'm a bit late on my forehand, but I don't know why I can't improve it, believe me I try hard but It seems there's something wrong with my technique that prevents me from hitting further in front.

As for the hop, I don't normally do that, but in this session I was working on my weight transfer and I don't know why I came up with this solution. Maybe that's because I watched Medvedev a lot recently. :D
 
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Dragy

Legend
Thanks Dragy for your feedback,

I know I'm a bit late on my forehand, but I don't why I can't improve it, believe me I try hard but It seems there's something wrong with my technique that prevents me from hitting further in front.

As for the hop, I don't normally do that, but in this session I was working on my weight transfer and I don't why I came up with this solution. Maybe that's because I watched Medvedev a lot recently. :D
If you cannot "just do it" starting with abbreviated prep (and hitting lightly, not trying to compensate for lack of coil), another suggestion would be to focus on extesion past the ball. You look like only reaching to the contact spot and "snatching" racquet from there inwards. try to reach farther past the ball - again, with gentle hitting - before you follow into wrap finish. Let the contact happen however it will while focusing on reaching this position every time (maybe even freeze it in first 30 tries - use separate feeds against a wall):
 
D

Deleted member 771407

Guest
I may be wrong but personally I don't find hitting against a wall useful to show or improve your technique. I played against a wall during the covid quarantine and my technique devolved. It teaches to hit flat and you are encourage to hit with little power, so you (general you) tend to hit with the arm or on the backfoot.
 
For your FH to contact more in front, a quick correction is to step left foot in to hit.
Once your contact is in front, focus on relaxing your shoulder and hitting with natural recoiling, not by intense arm motion. At the beginning, it is hard to control the direction of balls. Keeping forearm pronation as long as possible often helps.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Hi there,

This is me hitting against the wall after a while:


I'd really appreciate it if you could give me some tips, what do you think about my technique?
Very fluid and looks consistent. What are you having issue with?

One thing you might try is not hopping on your forehand drive. On your backhand you plant well and push up, but your are popping up on the forehand side instead of merely pushing up to the ball. Would be curious if that allows you to drive forward more instead of upright or moving back. Super small thing, but just something to try.
 

Manhattan

New User
Very fluid and looks consistent. What are you having issue with?

One thing you might try is not hopping on your forehand drive. On your backhand you plant well and push up, but your are popping up on the forehand side instead of merely pushing up to the ball. Would be curious if that allows you to drive forward more instead of upright or moving back. Super small thing, but just something to try.
Thanks for your reply,

My consistency from the back of the court is not that bad for my level, but when it comes to sitters I miss a lot and and as suggested above I think it's because I'm late on my forehand. I can't flatten my forehand out when I need to do so.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Thanks for your reply,

My consistency from the back of the court is not that bad for my level, but when it comes to sitters I miss a lot and and as suggested above I think it's because I'm late on my forehand. I can't flatten my forehand out when I need to do so.
So are you missing into the net or missing long? How will a flat FH help you in either situation? If the short ball is at net height or below, you need anything but a flat FH. If the short ball is well above the net cord, you need to learn to hit it downward, not flat.

Likely you miss on short balls because your footwork for side to side movement is far better than your footwork moving forwards and backwards. So you end up poorly set up to hit the stroke you need to hit. And you likely feel you need to crush the ball from that position which is absolutely the worst attitude.

The good players I've played with do 2 things on short balls: 1) Get there in plenty of time 2) hit it exactly where you aren't expecting it. Often with very little power but tons of precision.
 

Manhattan

New User
Well, had a quick hit today again and tried to follow your tips. I tried to take the ball as furthest in front as possible, I didn't try to hit very hard I was just trying to focus on my contact point:

 

Manhattan

New User
So are you missing into the net or missing long? How will a flat FH help you in either situation? If the short ball is at net height or below, you need anything but a flat FH. If the short ball is well above the net cord, you need to learn to hit it downward, not flat.

Likely you miss on short balls because your footwork for side to side movement is far better than your footwork moving forwards and backwards. So you end up poorly set up to hit the stroke you need to hit. And you likely feel you need to crush the ball from that position which is absolutely the worst attitude.

The good players I've played with do 2 things on short balls: 1) Get there in plenty of time 2) hit it exactly where you aren't expecting it. Often with very little power but tons of precision.
Thanks for your reply,


Short high balls. I mostly miss them long because I can't flatten out the trajectory, and the ball takes unwanted topspin. I also hit these balls so awkwardly :(
 

Dragy

Legend
Well, had a quick hit today again and tried to follow your tips. I tried to take the ball as furthest in front as possible, I didn't try to hit very hard I was just trying to focus on my contact point:

I like it much better! How did it feel?
You got unstable here and there, sometimes had to reach too far for the ball, but don’t care - embrace feedback from better shots.
Your footwork is a mess here, but it’s typical for wall hitting before you get 100% precise and carbon-copying shots. You may try some 2-bounce hitting (the bounce is high enough, it seems) or drop feeding, hitting, catching, drop feeding for next shot. It’s boring - yes - but extremely useful if you manage to stay disciplined.
 

Manhattan

New User
I like it much better! How did it feel?
You got unstable here and there, sometimes had to reach too far for the ball, but don’t care - embrace feedback from better shots.
Your footwork is a mess here, but it’s typical for wall hitting before you get 100% precise and carbon-copying shots. You may try some 2-bounce hitting (the bounce is high enough, it seems) or drop feeding, hitting, catching, drop feeding for next shot. It’s boring - yes - but extremely useful if you manage to stay disciplined.
As you might have noticed, I also shortened my takeback a little bit, so I assume it takes some time for me to get used to it. I used to have such a bigger takeback, I'm not sure with this compact one I can hit with more pop consistently or not. I need a few sessions. I'll keep posting here.

Thanks for helping me Dragy.
 

DaylightBlue

New User
I may be wrong but personally I don't find hitting against a wall useful to show or improve your technique. I played against a wall during the covid quarantine and my technique devolved. It teaches to hit flat and you are encourage to hit with little power, so you (general you) tend to hit with the arm or on the backfoot.
This was my experience too. If you hit with a lot of topspin, it makes the ball pop up too much and doesn't come back to you and forces you to move up and then you have to move back again after that. I think it can be useful if you're being very deliberate with your technique but the ball doesn't come to you like how it does in a rally. Maybe it's best for an absolute beginner to get a feel of where their contact point should be and getting used to hitting the ball?
 

Manhattan

New User
I have to disagree with you here, I had never hit against the wall until two years ago, and I have to say when I started practicing with the wall, my game improved big time! It helps me fine tuning my technique without caring about my partner. I love hitting against the wall more than anything else. I also regularly play against real opponents, but this indoor court is kind of my lab where I can record myself and work on my technique.
 

Dragy

Legend
As you might have noticed, I also shortened my takeback a little bit, so I assume it takes some time for me to get used to it. I used to have such a bigger takeback, I'm not sure with this compact one I can hit with more pop consistently or not. I need a few sessions. I'll keep posting here.

Thanks for helping me Dragy.
My pleasure, hope it really helps and sticks!

Don't worry about big takeback and pop. You can get to coiling more and taking racquet back farther once you are in appropriate rhythm - in a full-court rally - and ensure good in-advance prep: set your feet, load your legs and get to full coil, racquet back high by bounce. Then you roll it towards and through incoming ball, boom...
But this forward part is more important, in my opinion. And you keep this ability to shorten your backswing for serve returns and hardest, deepest drives you may face... and still fire back with juice.

PS Re. pop again... You hit modern style FH. Don't seek power in size of backswing or duration of the swing acceleration from far back. It's in your legs: load them, drive them, step through executing the shot, and you'll get all you need even with compact takeback. Should you completely eliminate it? No way, it's there for better timing and aligning the swing, for ensuring "moving entrance" into main acceleration phase. Just keep in mind that putting arm/chest effort from that far back point will likely be counter-productive.
 
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Dragy

Legend
Thanks for your reply,


Short high balls. I mostly miss them long because I can't flatten out the trajectory, and the ball takes unwanted topspin. I also hit these balls so awkwardly :(
With regard to high short balls, consider couple of things:
- Don't rush to hit them, you'll be good catching them past peak, or even at your preferred level, like belly button - still high enough for putaway through any spot on the court. You buy time for better adjustment this way.
- Spacing is king. You seem to deal ok with shoulder high balls, but still put double-focus on this against a high sitter - move your feet till the last instance to get best possible spacing.
- You may find it more fruitful to not focus on flattening the trajectory, but aiming lower over the net. No matter if they go with spin of flat. I'm sure you can introduce height aiming.
- Another focus point, for varied practice, is closing racquet face more and covering the ball more. But not by twisting the racquet, but sending the tip high and far over and past the ball (and it will swipe inward with this motion). Smth with this in mind:
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Thanks for your reply,


Short high balls. I mostly miss them long because I can't flatten out the trajectory, and the ball takes unwanted topspin. I also hit these balls so awkwardly :(
Those must be only a few a match so I wouldn't focus too much on them. You'd be far better off improving your serves and returns.

The best shot is still the one that clears the net and stays in the court. If you blister a ball with a flat stroke you are taking on risk you may not be good enough to take on. That ball has to clear the net with minimal margin and have a trajectory that gets it to land in the court. That's a low margin of error shot. Pros are good at it because they are so athletic and can elevate off the court to take the ball higher which gives them a better margin.

Learn to get set up early and learn to just topspin a ball into the court first. Then learn to slice a ball into the corners. Until you can make the higher margin of error shots, no point in raising the degree of difficulty. You'll probably be pleased to see how easy it is to win a point on short balls when you let the opponent screw up rather than screwing it up on your own.
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
Thanks for your reply,


Short high balls. I mostly miss them long because I can't flatten out the trajectory, and the ball takes unwanted topspin. I also hit these balls so awkwardly :(
In my opinion, your second video is much smoother and is a much better foundation on which to improve your forehand.

What I notice that may be a cause of your problems with high forehand sitter balls is that I think you are taking the racquet back like you think you should, with your left hand on the racquet. Unfortunately from that position, you stall the racquet and then your first move is to drop the racquet downward at about a 60 degree angle. That causes you to have to swing upward at the ball with a steep trajectory. If you take a look at this video:


Federer also drops his hand on the takeback, but his rearmost position is further behind his body than yours, and his contact point is further in front. This means the path his hand takes to the ball is much flatter, and that gives the versatility to flatten out balls. Just see the angle of his hand from the takeback point to the contact point, and then look at the angle your hand takes.

Here's a video I shot of myself a little while back. Look at about the 36 second mark. My hand takes an almost level path to the ball but I still hit enough topspin to give a big margin for error for that type of shot. Is this the kind of shot you're currently struggling with?

 

Manhattan

New User
you stall the racquet and then your first move is to drop the racquet downward at about a 60 degree angle. That causes you to have to swing upward at the ball with a steep trajectory.
Thanks for your insight, Injured Again.

I used to have a much more linear takeback, but I'm trying to change it and develop one more similar to Roger's. I think Federer drops his racquet at a steeper angle maybe 90 degrees, this is his swing pattern:





Is this the kind of shot you're currently struggling with?
Yes, it's tougher for me when the ball has topspin and bounces higher, it's easier to deal with underspin sitters, but you pulled it off like a pro. That's the type of trajectory I always want to get.
 

Injured Again

Hall of Fame
Thanks for your insight, Injured Again.

I used to have a much more linear takeback, but I'm trying to change it and develop one more similar to Roger's. I think Federer drops his racquet at a steeper angle maybe 90 degrees, this is his swing pattern:







Yes, it's tougher for me when the ball has topspin and bounces higher, it's easier to deal with underspin sitters, but you pulled it off like a pro. That's the type of trajectory I always want to get.
The thing is that at the beginning of his forward motion, his hand is further behind his body than yours is, and he makes contact further in front of his body than you do. That allows his hand trajectory to take a much flatter path towards the contact point, whereas your hand takes a much steeper path towards the ball.

Just something to be aware of and think about when you're playing - maybe just being aware of these things will allow you to make whatever changes are natural for you to be able to swing with a more flat trajectory towards the ball, and that will help you with those sitter shots as well. Good luck.
 

Blahovic

Semi-Pro
I don't think you need to overcomplicate things too much. Obviously there's lots you can learn from Federer's forehand as it's possibly the best forehand in history, but it's overwhelming to change too many aspects of your technique at once.

On your forehand - when you hit the ball, you are complicating things too much with the amount of vertical movement you are doing. You are transferring your weight up instead of forward into the ball.

Some simple ways to improve this would be: 1) Putting your left hand out in front as you prepare your swing; 2) Hitting the ball further out in front, as people have said; 3) Focusing on rotating forward (into the ball) instead of just jumping up.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Hi there,

This is me hitting against the wall after a while:

..................................................................

I'd really appreciate it if you could give me some tips, what do you think about my technique?

Regarss,
You should have more uppermost body turn and less shoulder joint motion in your one hand backhand. However, Federer does the same. But the majority of top one hand backhands have a checkpoint where the chest is in contact with the upper arm to start the forward swing of the one hand backhand. Explained in detail in the thread below.

Forehand, might lack separation. For separation, pay attention to a line between the two shoulders and a line between the two hips. Those two lines, if viewed from above, form the 'separation' angle. These two lines should move independently, not together. Then stretch shorten cycles can occur for the abdominal muscles and maybe some others. If you do it like the pros, you get a lot from the abdominal section of your body. I have posted on this many times, mostly for the forehand. Search for separation posts. See Djokovic video forehand below for separation. Compare to yours, notice the line of the shoulder for your strokes vs pro strokes.

Compare strokes in this post, one above the other and single frame. To single frame on Youtube use the period & comma keys. Always select the video using the alt key + left mouse click, otherwise the video starts playing. You can go full screen and back down and the video stays on the same frame. Compare starting at impact frames and move back and forth single frame. Compare most similar racket positions. For most accurate comparisons use the same camera angles. You need about 240 fps and small motion blur to see the fastest parts of the strokes.

Your backhand is hidden from the back camera view. It does not look like much uppermost body turn early in the forward swing.
Djokovic is a good example, of moderate separation on this forehand. For pace, he also does more separation. He has a bent elbow forehand.

Djokovic displays separation well but is very flexible and some of his forehands may be too stressful to copy regarding his range of motion.

Long thread with certain video observations of the one hand backhand. Read at least posts #1, #51 and then many of the later posts.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...art-forward-swing.462997/page-3#post-12917793

Forehand - your off arm does not appear to have the purpose of the off arm in many ATP forehands. It should be straight out, accelerated up to speed before the forward swing of the hitting arm, and pulled in with timing to help accelerate the uppermost body turn. This has been posted many times. Search: off arm forehand ice skater Curiosity Chas

Forehand - How does your separation compare to Djokovics? The shoulders line turns back farther than the hips line. The hips line may sometimes move forward before the shoulders line, probably for more abdominal muscle stretch.

This is an informative video about the linear vs circular forehand.
 
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Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Thanks for your insight, Injured Again.

I used to have a much more linear takeback, but I'm trying to change it and develop one more similar to Roger's. I think Federer drops his racquet at a steeper angle maybe 90 degrees, this is his swing pattern:







Yes, it's tougher for me when the ball has topspin and bounces higher, it's easier to deal with underspin sitters, but you pulled it off like a pro. That's the type of trajectory I always want to get.
Federer has a straight elbow forehand technique. I see some bend in your forehand. Study the issue of the forehand elbow bend. Djokovic has a bent elbow forehand. Which are you?
 
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First of all, your basic groundstrokes are not that bad.
Lots of players, here, would like to have your strokes.
Are they perfect- well, no, but I think the fault is not
so much the stroke, itself, as basic footwork and getting
in proper position to address the ball.
I think you are doing pretty well for hitting against the wall
because of random bounces, faster bounces and the
difficulty of predicting those bounces makes getting into
perfect position difficult.

Let us see you hitting with a rally partner to get
a better assessment of the strokes.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Don't get bogged down too much with all the technical info. It would really help to see you hitting with someone on a court from the back so we can see the ball shape and also how you are moving in between shots.
 
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