How best to invest money towards improvement of my children's tennis

[Steadyhand]

I have two daughters, both getting ready to play varsity level in their high school (in JV currently but will move up next year). I think they are about NTRP 3-3.5 now. The only coaching they have received recently (apart from hitting with me over the years recreationally) is from their high school coach that spanned the June-September time frame. He is pretty good and they have improved a lot. Now we have the off season where they still need to stay active and keep playing. I am contemplating what would be the best way to invest dollars for their improvement. A private lesson with a coach runs $100/hr. We have access to free public courts nearby but in winter there will be a few months in Pennsylvania where it won't be easy to play outside. I can get membership to an indoor tennis facility for about $350 (for October-June) and we should be able to get a 3 hours a week of play in there. Group tennis lessons in indoor facilities with good reputation around here run for about $750 for 15 weeks per child for 1.5hrs per session ($50/ week per person), which is only slightly cheaper than private. So what is the best way to bridge the off season till June?
Option A (most expensive): Private coaching per week + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option B: Group tennis lessons weekly + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option C: Private coaching meeting every 2 weeks + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option D: Self coaching (I am about NTRP 4.0-4.5) + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option E (least expensive): Self coaching (I am about NTRP 4.0-4.5) + free outdoor courts

Of course Option A is likely to best for their growth and improvement, but would it be overkill? Should I save dollars for later until I am more sure they can benefit from extensive coaching? They show a lot of interest and lap everything thrown at them so far for improvement. As a somewhat better player than them, should I keep trying to learn coaching methods and work with them or is it time to let go? Are group lessons useful in anyway than private sessions by having peers around you? Does having a good ball machine change the equation anywhere?

 

[sureshs]

You can eliminate Option E if you want them to play in winter.

Start with Option D and check out the coaches at the facility and then decide about the first 3 options.

 

[johnmccabe]

If you are not shooting for D1 scholarship etc, weekly private lesson and mixing in everything else. Two kids learning tennis, it's going to be expensive anyway, unfortunately....

 

[lockbox]

Let's be clear, 4.0 - 4.5 means 4.0. It's not that you couldn't teach them anything, but what are the goals? If it's to get better for tournaments/college play, then the most time they have with an instructor strengthening their fundamentals, the better. If not, i'd recommend a mix of hits with friends, hits with you and maybe a lesson here and there.

In short, you've given us no clue about your budget, your goals or what you want out of this besides "improvement."

 

[ey039524]

All good advice. If their form is good already, and they don't have high aspirations, sign them up for group clinics a few times a week. They can hit w/ you and each other the rest of the week. If they start to get motivated and want to climb the team ladder, have them split a private once/week, while still playing clinics and w/ you. Let them decide how much they want to improve.

My son's a senior and is hungry to play. He takes privates once/week, plays 2-3 clinics/week, hits on off days w/ friends, and plays tournaments on every other weekend on average.

I started out working w/ him when he was 9. He's been playing group clinics since. One of the reasons why he's so motivated is b/c I let him want it (didn't push it on him).

 

[Steadyhand]

Their aspirations are high, but I'm not sure they fully know what they are talking about. We are not running the risk of me pushing this on them; they are pushing this on me. We don't have anyone we know who has gone on to play tennis at any level, so frankly I am not sure where this can take them. As parents we prefer their academics come first, but if they can balance both, we are game. I can afford Option A above, but don't like to throw money away. For example, I could use the saved money to take them traveling and get a broader perspective on life. We don't necessarily need them to get a D1 athletic scholarship for them to go to University. They want to do it because they want to compete and do well (like the players they see on TV). I say "improvement" because I want them to be the best they reasonably can be until they are satisfied themselves. But when I am uncertain as to how much they know at age 14-15, I have to make guesses. Based on the responses, perhaps I should "press on the throttle little bit at a time and keep giving more gas if it seems the car (me/kids) can handle it". Perhaps start with instructions once in two weeks and if improvement is at a steady pace and no end for hunger to work hard, perhaps make it weekly. Add the indoor court membership to keep practicing.

 

[eah123]

My girl made varsity as a sophomore but did not make the starting line up. This year, her junior year, she put a lot of pressure on herself to make the starting lineup but did not make it again. She is no longer playing tennis and is focusing on her other sport, fencing.

She did clinics, semiprivate, and also a lot of private coaching from me. Technique is actually really good, but I witnessed how it would break down and she would play too cautious in matches. No confidence in her strokes and would slice everything.

Probably the thing I would do different if I had a chance to do it over again is to do less instruction and do more tournaments. I think kids really need to learn how to deal with losing a lot when it actually counts and figure out how to win, even with compromised technique, before any instruction will stick.

Good luck!

 

[Friedman Whip]

Here's another 2 cents worth of thoughts. How good is your game? At 4.25 level do you have really good technique on all the major shots - Fh topspin and slice, BH topspin and slice, FH and BH volleys with proper footwork, variety in serves with continental grip, good overheads and lobs, squash shot, etc? Do you have acceptable grips on all shots? Seems that if you can answer yes you should be able to observe your daughters and steer them correctly if you see them heading down a wrong path. If you reach an impasse on some particular thing seems you could send them to a pro to fix that thing.
By the way you say the high school coach who helped them a lot is "pretty good". Does that mean that he is a pretty good tennis player or a pretty coach tennis coach? Is he a school teacher who plays tennis or an outside tennis pro who is hired to coach the team?

 

[10sbeast888]

3-3.5 in high school means zero chance of college scholarship.

so the goal is really just having fun at Varsity.

for 2 kids your cost is the same between group and private... then private is no brainer.. get someone who has track record of working with students similar to your kids.

it's only a few hundred bucks over the winter, plus the membership... option C obviously.

 

[ey039524]

Even if the coach is a teaching pro, they won't have enough time to give to your kid to help w their stroke technique. My son's coach was, and his time was split between 12 varsity kids (separate jv coach). Even in clinics, coaches barely have any time to give an individual that type of coaching that is needed for stroke mechanics. My son's private coach is very technical, uses video to compare son's shots vs pros w ideal form.

For background, my son made varsity, won league (doubles player) freshman year in a week league. Made cif individuals two years, not good enough to get a D1 scholarship, but will probably get into a good school for academics. Wants to go to a big school and get on the club team.

I like the idea w starting w some instruction and then ramping it up if their interest continues. At some point, the improvement comes w court time, so if they can afford the time in their schedules, they need to be on court.

 

[EP1998]

There are a lot of approaches you can take and really none of them are wrong. Having a life in the sport is very different now in that players play a lot longer, there is more money in the sport etc. so that is something to keep in mind. You can also combine travel with tennis through a trip to Europe with tournaments etc. Playing in college is not necessary, they can play club tennis if they cant make the team at a bigger school.

At this age they need a lot of point play. Does the indoor facility offer clinics and adult drop in match play they can do? Sometimes juniors in the US don't take advantage of point play with crafty adults, which is often available via drop in clinics, cardio play programs etc.

The other thing you can do is a lot of hand feed movement based drills, get them really comfortable with ball spacing, footwork etc. Cheap and easy and effective.

I would lean toward D.

 

[nyta2]

I have two daughters, both getting ready to play varsity level in their high school (in JV currently but will move up next year). I think they are about NTRP 3-3.5 now. The only coaching they have received recently (apart from hitting with me over the years recreationally) is from their high school coach that spanned the June-September time frame. He is pretty good and they have improved a lot.

why not ask him to continue teaching them for $?

Now we have the off season where they still need to stay active and keep playing. I am contemplating what would be the best way to invest dollars for their improvement. A private lesson with a coach runs $100/hr. We have access to free public courts nearby but in winter there will be a few months in Pennsylvania where it won't be easy to play outside. I can get membership to an indoor tennis facility for about $350 (for October-June) and we should be able to get a 3 hours a week of play in there.

by me, that's dirt cheap... but if were looking to reduce cost further, i could technically play outdoors through dec, and then from mar... so might look to play adhoc during jan/feb

Group tennis lessons in indoor facilities with good reputation around here run for about $750 for 15 weeks per child for 1.5hrs per session ($50/ week per person), which is only slightly cheaper than private. So what is the best way to bridge the off season till June?
Option A (most expensive): Private coaching per week + membership to indoor facility for practice.

if money no object, this is the obvious choice... ideally per week:
1 private lesson
10h clinic
1 tourney

Option B: Group tennis lessons weekly + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option C: Private coaching meeting every 2 weeks + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option D: Self coaching (I am about NTRP 4.0-4.5) + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option E (least expensive): Self coaching (I am about NTRP 4.0-4.5) + free outdoor courts

if $ cutting, i'd coach them myself (time flex permitting), outdoors 2h daily (sunlight/weather permitting), pay adhoc in jan/feb... maybe get 1 private per month. to give us prio on what to work on, and tips to fix specific things you can't figure out... but as a 4.0+ if you play a set with them, you'll know immediate...

as a 3.0, the priority IMO is easy:
* serve with spin (hardest to teach, therefore learn progressions, and make sure to do daily)
* cross court rally consistency (topspin & slice)... ideally get up to a 50 ball rally
* comfortable with midcourt shots (approach, volley, overhead)

Of course Option A is likely to best for their growth and improvement, but would it be overkill? Should I save dollars for later until I am more sure they can benefit from extensive coaching?

you could argue that $ for stroke fundamentals si more important than adv level training...

They show a lot of interest and lap everything thrown at them so far for improvement. As a somewhat better player than them, should I keep trying to learn coaching methods and work with them or is it time to let go?

depends on parent child relationship, and time/budget...
a pro who does it 40h+ is likely better at doing it better than us...
and can still supplement lessons + clinics with hitting with dad...

Are group lessons

are for tactics/strategy/point play/volume of balls hit/hitting on the move/etc...

useful in anyway than private sessions

are for correcting strokes, learning new strokes, etc...

by having peers around you?

some folks will benefit from learning from peers... but i find that girls prefer individual (private) 1-1 training when making corrections

Does having a good ball machine change the equation anywhere?

how good is your feeding? do you have the time to feed...
ball machine is great if no one can feed to you/hit with... but sounds like, at min (when you're not around), they can hit with each other and/or feed to each other... just need to learn how to do both properly

 

[MGArchitect]

Played in college, but not a scholarship (at a reasonably good D3 school). Some of the best improvements I made as a Junior were attending week-long tennis camps with verifiably good instructors - most often college coaches who also had records of results. That, alongside constant hitting with friends and playing in tournaments to build match toughness and a regular weekly lesson. When I was a freshman I was JV, I subbed for some varsity matches as a Sophomore, and by the time I was a Junior and Senior I had passed by my friends and other players who had been varsity players when I was freshman. Long story I think what they need are: lessons from a qualified coach, regular hitting, match/tournament play, bursts of intense qualified instruction.

 

[Steadyhand]

Great suggestions thanks. Their current high school coach is great with kids but not necessarily a high level player himself. Perhaps just better than me but knows how to explain technique more than me. I am more of a natural and was never coached. I was good at table tennis and badminton and this was just a transition that I did when I was about 22. I have a very strong forehand (Roger like ) and mostly a slice backhand (Steffi like ) so I was not sure I can explain technique well, but I am watching videos to learn the right terminology. I have great defense and move well, average volley, serve pretty well. I just need to think how it all clicks for me and tell it to them.

 

[Friedman Whip]

Good luck with your kid's tennis. They may not reach lofty goals but then again they may become lifelong players like some of us and that is a great thing. I've kept in good physical condition and had more fun than a barrel of monkeys playing tennis year round for the last 53 years.

 

[ichaseballs]

don't need a coach to get better

 

[LOBALOT]

I have seen more kids with funky/improper strokes and technique that were trained by their dad who thought they knew what they were doing than I can shake a stick at.

All these kids had flaws in their game that could be easily be exploited and none stuck with it or competed competitively past 14s.

Unless OP took a crack on the tour or had years of training (i.e. 5.0++) then leave the coaching to those that are at that level or lower expectations.

I would invest there (usually $150 or so an hour) and in competitive tournament play if finances are a limitation and skip group classes. One potential savings is have them take a lesson at the same time with the coach.

I would then just try to have them organize their own hits with their peers.

Tennis isn't cheap and there are not a lot of corners that can be cut to develop a junior player unfortunately.

 

[LuckyR]

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

 

[Steadyhand]

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

I didn’t think that way. I am a first gen immigrant who came to the country with nothing and things are different from the way I grew up and I often have learnt by asking. Efficiency remains important to me.

 

[LOBALOT]

I didn’t think that way. I am a first gen immigrant who came to the country with nothing and things are different from the way I grew up and I often have learnt by asking. Efficiency remains important to me.

I agree with you on that but you need to have proper instruction for your kids. Sorry, but as a 4.0 or whatever you are not it.

Reach out to local tennis parents and engage the best instruction you can secure no mater the cost. Cut in other areas but that should be your focus for them.

 

[LuckyR]

I didn’t think that way. I am a first gen immigrant who came to the country with nothing and things are different from the way I grew up and I often have learnt by asking. Efficiency remains important to me.

My point is whatever amount of money you spend on your daughter's tennis instruction will never be recouped through their tennis playing. Thus since no one here knows your financial situation, no one can give you accurate advice on how much money to drop on their tennis. Only you know your situation and thus how much money to spend. Just do it with your eyes open that that money is gone forever, but they'll get better at an activity that has the potential to bring them enjoyment for a lifetime, which in my opinion is quite valuable. But your opinion is the only important one.

 

[Steadyhand]

Yes I agree. It is a lifelong sport and skill and I derive much satisfaction from it. Hope they will as well. Thanks everyone. After posting on this thread I have learnt feeding drills and they are enjoying it. A private instructor can work on their technique in parallel. That’s the best situation going forward.

 

[LOBALOT]

Sure it depends on the kids and their parents objectives for the sport. I was assuming it was going to be their sport.

If it is going to be a hobby or something they "play at" then hit with dad, take group lessons, and be happy with that. Heck one doesn't even need to spend for group lessons depending on what they are looking for. I read OPs post differently as the opposite is an obvious answer (i.e. don't spend at all).

If one wants to excel at the sport than no that will not cut it.

 

[Steadyhand]

Yes the idea was how to best invest $X dollars for best improvement. One has to make choices often. How to get most improvement is easy to answer and how to save most money is easy to answer. The joint objective of improvement with efficient use of funds is was the goal of the post. I think I got that answer for the most part as invest in increments (to be efficient with funds) and based on improvement decide where additional funds should go so nothing goes waste.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Feedback.

Do you now use your own high speed video for stroke feedback and analysis?

Include that and have everyone interested in tennis participate.

I would recommend an old Casio EX-FH100. It has a mode where you can video at 30 and then press a button to increase to 240 fps, I believe. Get one used on ?bay. Get user's manual first from Casio - if still available by download.

Learn to use what is on Youtubes for ATP and WTA strokes.

 

[TennisCJC]

I live in Atlanta. There are many public and private facilities that offer after school programs for juniors. Usually group lessons that have 2 or 3 sessions per week. I don't know the cost but it is lower than individual lessons. Some of the local facilities offer more intense junior programs with 5 sessions per week but of course, they cost more. I would go the junior group lessons option if you are looking to have good competitive high school players. You should supplement group programs with a private lesson once a week for a least some of the year. Even if you just did a series of 6-10 individual lessons each summer it would help because group programs sometimes don't offer the individual instruction of private lessons. I would also look at local competition options such as USTA leagues. Here in Atlanta our local ALTA league runs a junior singles ladder program and many of the juniors at the top of the ladder go on to play college tennis.

Make sure you get good coaches. The majority of coaches are decent but I have seen some real losers teaching in Atlanta. A few weeks ago, I saw a coach teaching a 3.0 60 year old female to hit forehands by using an active wrist snap at contact. It was ridiculous. I bit my tongue and didn't say a word. I was hitting with a guy who taught tennis for 50 years and he agreed that what the pro was teaching was simply bad technique.

 

[fuzz nation]

I have two daughters, both getting ready to play varsity level in their high school (in JV currently but will move up next year). I think they are about NTRP 3-3.5 now. The only coaching they have received recently (apart from hitting with me over the years recreationally) is from their high school coach that spanned the June-September time frame. He is pretty good and they have improved a lot. Now we have the off season where they still need to stay active and keep playing. I am contemplating what would be the best way to invest dollars for their improvement. A private lesson with a coach runs $100/hr. We have access to free public courts nearby but in winter there will be a few months in Pennsylvania where it won't be easy to play outside. I can get membership to an indoor tennis facility for about $350 (for October-June) and we should be able to get a 3 hours a week of play in there. Group tennis lessons in indoor facilities with good reputation around here run for about $750 for 15 weeks per child for 1.5hrs per session ($50/ week per person), which is only slightly cheaper than private. So what is the best way to bridge the off season till June?
Option A (most expensive): Private coaching per week + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option B: Group tennis lessons weekly + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option C: Private coaching meeting every 2 weeks + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option D: Self coaching (I am about NTRP 4.0-4.5) + membership to indoor facility for practice.
Option E (least expensive): Self coaching (I am about NTRP 4.0-4.5) + free outdoor courts

Of course Option A is likely to best for their growth and improvement, but would it be overkill? Should I save dollars for later until I am more sure they can benefit from extensive coaching? They show a lot of interest and lap everything thrown at them so far for improvement. As a somewhat better player than them, should I keep trying to learn coaching methods and work with them or is it time to let go? Are group lessons useful in anyway than private sessions by having peers around you? Does having a good ball machine change the equation anywhere?

I've landed on the opinion that group lessons are pretty good for getting out of the gate with starting a player's development, but unless they're run especially well, they won't bring too much bang for the student's buck beyond that. Group work requires teaching within a particular theme and if one player has one problem with technique, etc. and another in that group has a different problem that needs to be addressed, the wheels can fall off for the overall pace of progression. And if that group needs to forge ahead, those individual issues can go unaddressed.

There is the upside with the group setting of playing with pals or making one or two new friends and both parents and kids can sometimes do a little bit of networking in those settings. That can lead to other options that are more productive.

I love working one-on-one where we can make substantial progress in one direction or another in a relatively short amount of time. If your girls are trying to progress from the level of high school JV to the varsity squad, there are probably a lot of ways to go for that, but it may take a little looking around to track down the person you need for this private/semi-private coaching. No need to go crazy ($$$) if they don't have their sights set on Div-1 college tennis.

I'm a high school coach, but I've also certified in the past with the USPTA and I teach on my own. I missed out on college tennis when I wrecked an ankle in my freshman year, but I've stuck with it in terms of working with the kids (and adults). A lot of the stronger kids in the area go to that handful of expensive premium coaches, but I know that those guys and their programs aren't for everybody. I've trained high school champs in singles and doubles, but I'm more of a tennis hobo and I don't advertise like those big shots. I'm also much less expensive than they are (my overhead is almost zero).

Guys (and ladies) like me exist, but it can take a little detective work to find them when the kids aren't being coached on that person's high school team. That's where the networking can pay off. Some high school coaches can be decent resources - a few might be solid low key teachers, but many know of decent locals who might be able to work with your girls. And if there's a college nearby with an active tennis club, there could be a couple of decent sluggers there that would be happy to workout with your girls for a few bucks and help them along.

Aside from decent coaching, your girls also need to do the other kind of practice; they need to seek out competition and practice managing themselves in match play. This can include tournaments, but there are also things like "drop-ins" where you can sign up online for singles and/or doubles play and show up for a couple hours of match play with kids of a similar level. These are typically pretty affordable and they seem to be popping up more and more. Even the networking from group lessons can lead to setting up matches with pals to keep it all going in the right direction.

 

[Steadyhand]

I've landed on the opinion that group lessons are pretty good for getting out of the gate with starting a player's development, but unless they're run especially well, they won't bring too much bang for the student's buck beyond that. Group work requires teaching within a particular theme and if one player has one problem with technique, etc. and another in that group has a different problem that needs to be addressed, the wheels can fall off for the overall pace of progression. And if that group needs to forge ahead, those individual issues can go unaddressed.

There is the upside with the group setting of playing with pals or making one or two new friends and both parents and kids can sometimes do a little bit of networking in those settings. That can lead to other options that are more productive.

I love working one-on-one where we can make substantial progress in one direction or another in a relatively short amount of time. If your girls are trying to progress from the level of high school JV to the varsity squad, there are probably a lot of ways to go for that, but it may take a little looking around to track down the person you need for this private/semi-private coaching. No need to go crazy ($$$) if they don't have their sights set on Div-1 college tennis.

I'm a high school coach, but I've also certified in the past with the USPTA and I teach on my own. I missed out on college tennis when I wrecked an ankle in my freshman year, but I've stuck with it in terms of working with the kids (and adults). A lot of the stronger kids in the area go to that handful of expensive premium coaches, but I know that those guys and their programs aren't for everybody. I've trained high school champs in singles and doubles, but I'm more of a tennis hobo and I don't advertise like those big shots. I'm also much less expensive than they are (my overhead is almost zero).

Guys (and ladies) like me exist, but it can take a little detective work to find them when the kids aren't being coached on that person's high school team. That's where the networking can pay off. Some high school coaches can be decent resources - a few might be solid low key teachers, but many know of decent locals who might be able to work with your girls. And if there's a college nearby with an active tennis club, there could be a couple of decent sluggers there that would be happy to workout with your girls for a few bucks and help them along.

Aside from decent coaching, your girls also need to do the other kind of practice; they need to seek out competition and practice managing themselves in match play. This can include tournaments, but there are also things like "drop-ins" where you can sign up online for singles and/or doubles play and show up for a couple hours of match play with kids of a similar level. These are typically pretty affordable and they seem to be popping up more and more. Even the networking from group lessons can lead to setting up matches with pals to keep it all going in the right direction.

Great I will keep the networking advice in mind and look out for coaches such as you!

 

[fuzz nation]

Great I will keep the networking advice in mind and look out for coaches such as you!

Best of luck to you and your girls. It's fantastic to hear that they're chirping at you in terms of finding more inroads for playing and developing. When kids make that decision on their own, all we pretty much need to do is keep up!!

Making the jump from the JV ranks to becoming a solid varsity level player is more than just a formality. If they're getting match experience and also working on developing a full skill set that includes effectively attacking the net, they'll be much better equipped to take on all comers. Some girls can get after higher level coaching, but become one dimensional baseline robots. It's great to be strong and steady from the back court, but they need to be able to do something else when facing opponents who are their equals around the baseline.

And many leagues (including mine) include lots of doubles. If they can get sharp around the net, they'll have an edge both for doubles and singles.