How can you tell (feel) when a poly is going dead ?

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Hey string experts

I have been playing multi and gut/multi for the last few years, and have been playing with the strings until I break them (or with gut change the cross string to a fresh multi).
Now I have gotten the taste for poly, as I thinks it enhances my game with more spin and control than my multi setup.

However I have a very sensitive elbow, so safety comes first. I am testing out different soft polys in 3 identical frames, Angell TC100 (with this frame I had no control with a multi setup, now with poly I just love the frame).

So I am concerned about the poly going dead, and can hurt my arm - so I have been cutting out the poly after 5 hours of play in order to be on the safe side. At the moment I play Cyber Flash 17L (FB and Get/CF) and my elbow seem to agree with this string (strung low at 20kg - 44 LB).

How can you tell or feel when the poly is going dead ?

Is there a sudden big tension drop I can measure.
Is it that the strings notch
Is it the lack of snap back

Most of my friends play their polys until they break, and can have a poly in their racquet (18x20) for month. Some friends snap the poly in a few hours, but most don't seem to care about a poly going dead, so no help to be found there.

Also soft poly recommendation for a TC100 are welcome.

Cheers, Toby
 
Toby14 said:
Is it the lack of snap back
Click to expand...
This is my main indicator. Once I see that I have to straighten my strings, its time to cut them out.

As far a comfortable polys...the only one that has killed my arm is 4G Rough. After just 2 sets of doubles I developed TE and was sidelined for almost 3 months.

Keeping the tension low is key, and at 44lbs, you're right in the ballpark. A couple that I've liked are Tourna Big Hitter Silver Tour 7 and Laserfibre Native Tour (my current string), but CyberFlash is actually a good all-around poly.
 
@Toby14 when you cut out your poly strings after 5 hours and get a fresh set, do you notice a difference in how the new strings feel? Do they seem to have more power and are more comfortable? If so, then your old strings have started undergoing the changes that results in them "going dead". Is the difference greater or no different if you play with a string for three hours? Or seven hours, or nine?

If you experiment, you'll be able to find that happy medium where you aren't overly restringing but also aren't using a stringjob for too long after the string characteristics degrade.
 
McLovin has it right. i think the easiest indicator is the lack of string movement meaning they’re notched (and shot). It’s easy to tell (on the fifteen or so I’ve tried). There are dent resistant strings making this check a little less obvious But it’s still a good checkpoint.
 
An excellent, and potentially useful question.

In the old days, poly strings were constructed from a singular material, polyethylene terephthalate, which is a form of plastic. It’s primary advantage is that it has low elasticity. It’s primary disadvantage is that it has very poor yield strength, and permanently deforms with use. This type of string feels ‘dead’ when its subjective life is over. It exhibits poor control and can be unhealthy to your connective tissue.

To combat this, makers began adding other material to the basic composition. This became known as a co-poly. The differences between a poly and a co-poly are hazy to the user though, since the additive(s), treatments, and manufacturing techniques can be anything, similar to a gasoline ‘additive’.

Some of these combination materials, HyperG for instance, use primarily elasticity enhancers. The goal is a string with additional power while maintaining a good level of control and spin as well as a softer feel. As they age, the polyester material deforms and the elastic material begins to dominate. This type of string dies ‘hot’, and starts to feel more like a multi. It’s much easier on your body as well.

The third of our three bears are those that combat deformation with non-plastic additives and finishing techniques. The original, and perhaps still best are from Luxilon. You will read this in several of the TW user tests. The string looses significant tension over time, but the usability remains relatively consistent. These strings age neutrally. The deformation of the polyester is being balanced against the elastic component and physically supported by the non-plastic material (in this case a metal or metals).
This balanced type of string lasts longer both objectively and subjectivity. It doesn’t tend to feel significantly different as it ages. The other advantage is that the ‘dead and alive’ types of strings change to a far greater degree across the string bed. The change of response in the impact zone is far greater than the edge strings, creating a response curve that the player will perceive as a lack of control. It’s this loss of control that motivates most players, particularly higher level or big hitters, to cut out their strings, rather than the change of feel.
 
Is it safe to say that when I can see that the crosses (in my case full poly setup) have deformed and are getting flat in the sweetspot it's time to restring?
 
Injured Again said:
@Toby14 when you cut out your poly strings after 5 hours and get a fresh set, do you notice a difference in how the new strings feel? Do they seem to have more power and are more comfortable? If so, then your old strings have started undergoing the changes that results in them "going dead". Is the difference greater or no different if you play with a string for three hours? Or seven hours, or nine?

If you experiment, you'll be able to find that happy medium where you aren't overly restringing but also aren't using a stringjob for too long after the string characteristics degrade.
Click to expand...

Good idea, I will string 2 identical racquet up with Cyber Flash at same tension, keeping one as a reference and only play with the other, then I can perhaps find or fell when the two setups gets too far away from each other. Thanks (y)
 
@JBH thank you for a great post, very helpful. Do you perhaps have a recommendation for a soft poly that play well in both FB and as a hybrid with gut.

Cheers, Toby
 
Lots of good stuff already posted.
I read on a thread some time ago was
-change out poly when the overgrip needs changing (or two)
 
Toby14 said:
@JBH thank you for a great post, very helpful. Do you perhaps have a recommendation for a soft poly that play well in both FB and as a hybrid with gut.

Cheers, Toby
Click to expand...

If you’re looking to use the poly in the mains, Alu Power Soft. It’s not really soft though, more like firm but muted with the high frequencies filtered out. May be too firm for a FB if you’re looking for a truly soft setup but with control.

If you’re using poly crosses, Wilson Revolve. It’s relatively soft, lasts a long time, and is very slippery, so it doesn’t chew up the gut and maintains consistent string snap as the set ages.
 
Since you are worried about your elbow, I'd probably stick with the Gut/CF and just play it until it breaks or you notice a significant change in the tension. With the Gut in there the tension should be more stable unless the weather conditions get to the gut. Cyberflash 17 by itself is pretty soft at lower tensions and it breaks pretty easy too, so I wouldn't think you'd have trouble with it either if you keep it strung low you can probably play it until it breaks. If your elbow is sore or tender after play at all, I'd recommend sticking with the gut though.
 
I use ERT 300 and measure DT right after restringing and after each tennis session. When tenison drop in the range 16 - 18%, - I change the strings. After a while I do not really need any ERT 300 measurement I know for my tennis schedule it is normally 3-4 weeks. I picked 16-18% because at this point, I noticed, it is harder to control the placement, also strings start moving or more accurately stop snapping back. I have a client who brings me his racquets and every time a tension drop is 18-20% and he does not use any devices - he is just a good player and feels how racquet plays.
 
snoflewis said:
when you're playing awful, the first excuse is to blame the strings, unless it's a fresh string job
Click to expand...

Agree. I usually know it’s time to change strings when I am playing poorly, usually from staying out too late and drinking and then getting less/poor sleep so I can’t recover from workouts and tennis matches, so my performance then suffers. In those cases, instead of going out less and getting more sleep, I change strings and start telling people my poly was dead.
 
@Toby14 on polys, when they move and don't snap back, they have stretched too much!, string resilience is no longer there, tension is anywhere it wants/who.knows,; time to cut!!
this is usually at a 3week time for me, im not a string breaker,,
but i have felt the "tension drop", on a few polys!!, while on a long hitting session,,
it was a very UNIQUE experience, it seemed like a different string from the "good-feel-pop", i had at the beginning,
kind of shockingly different, I had to stop to look at the strings and scratch my head!!,, but also the strings where "in place", where not moving out of place
 
Have you ever found unable to brush the ball up and the ball goes into the net, as if the ball glides across the racquet face, while when the same string is fresh you remember being able to kick the ball over the net easily and the racquet bites into the ball? This is my indication.

Other checkpoints:
--consistently landing two ball-width too long
--strings no longer straight. When this happens, the first two already have been occuring for about two weeks.
 
Moveforwardalways said:
Agree. I usually know it’s time to change strings when I am playing poorly, usually from staying out too late and drinking and then getting less/poor sleep so I can’t recover from workouts and tennis matches, so my performance then suffers. In those cases, instead of going out less and getting more sleep, I change strings and start telling people my poly was dead.
Click to expand...
Haha good idea, I may have to try that next time
 
I'm not a string breaker so echoing what a few others had said, my prime indicator that my strings are dead is 1) when I consistently hit balls a foot or longer than my target point on the court. Second clue for me is 2) when touch volleys and drop shots fall short of the mark or don't make it over the net. 3) When DTL forehands on the deuce side consistently land a foot or more to the right off the court, that racquet goes back in the bag for immediate restring.
 
I would describe it as the poly losing its crispness in terms of feel.

have to keep in mind that not all polys go dead equally. Some are more noticeable than others. ALU is regarded as maintaining it’s tension very well and can generally be played until broken. With soft polys it’s similar to syn gut strings: string bed is uncontrollable.
 
brownbearfalling said:
I would describe it as the poly losing its crispness in terms of feel.

have to keep in mind that not all polys go dead equally. Some are more noticeable than others. ALU is regarded as maintaining it’s tension very well and can generally be played until broken. With soft polys it’s similar to syn gut strings: string bed is uncontrollable.
Click to expand...

i was under the impression ALU died fast...i have no personal experience cuz i refuse to buy overpriced string but everybody else says it plays amazing but dies fast after the first few hours


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
blai212 said:
i was under the impression ALU died fast...i have no personal experience cuz i refuse to buy overpriced string but everybody else says it plays amazing but dies fast after the first few hours


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I agree. Used Alu in a full bed once and it was epic for literally what felt like 4 hours tops... I couldn't believe it. I was super annoyed because I spent a heap getting it strung up (before I owned a stringing machine).

Since then I have used Alu and Alu Rough as crosses with gut mains and again... short-term amazing playability.

I get why pro's use it so often but in my opinion it is a huge ripoff of a string for someone who doesn't restring ever couple of hours.
 
brownbearfalling said:
ALU is regarded as maintaining it’s tension very well and can generally be played until broken. With soft polys it’s similar to syn gut strings: string bed is uncontrollable.
Click to expand...

Are you basing that on experience? My experience is very different. ALU in the regular and rough versions when I tried it was great for one session basically. Then it's pretty much average. That initial feel is what hooks people on it I think, but it doesn't last. I consider it a waste of money.

Also, I only play softer polys and I play them at relatively low tensions. I find them to have plenty of control.
 
Its very simple to tell, you hit soft then its slow or same , you hit heavy then it sprays.
Its more difficult to hit optimal , thats how you know.
It is different then loosing tension or bad tension, then it just sprays all the time and its more predictable.
 
Last edited:
Thank a lot guys, I really value your feedback.

I am testing different soft poly strings and various hybrids.

I have decided that I will cut out the strings when:

1. I reach the 10 hour mark
2. Strings start to not snapping back
3. DT on my stringbed drops 20%
4. I start to loos control and start to spray balls.

Whatever of the 4 comes first, I change to a new test string.

Rigt now I have in my 3 matched frames:

1. Cyber Flash
2. Head Sonic Pro
3. Gut / ZX pro

I string at 20kg (44lb)

Next in line is:

Head lynx
Torn Big Hitter Silver 7 Tour
Vokl V-Torque Tour
Tier One Firewire Boost (Hybrid)
Tier One Firewire / RIP (Hybrid)
Tier One Ghost Wire

I will make a full report at a later state.

Any other soft poly suggestions are welcome.

Cheers, and thanks so much guys.
 
Toby14 said:
Any other soft poly suggestions are welcome.
Click to expand...

I’ve been a big fan of Tier One Black Knight. Not as soft as Ghost Wire, but I think it offers more control and longer playability.

If you like aggressively shaped strings, I found Diadem Solstice Power to be exceptionally soft and forgiving - so much so that I had to string it 4lbs or so tighter than I normally would string poly.
 
McLovin said:
This is my main indicator. Once I see that I have to straighten my strings, its time to cut them out.
Click to expand...
Hi Sir, is this also applicable to multi string ? After using Gosen AK Control 17 for 15 hours, I notice the main strings are no longer straight. I didn't notice any notch on crosses or frying. I am a beginner who starts hitting harder recently. Thanks.
 
I usually feel discomfort (tightness) in my wrist when a poly start ‘going dead’ to be followed very soon by slight discomfort in my elbow. I cut out the strings right away even if the poly still plays OK in terms of control so that I can prevent injury. Pain is my alarm system to signal that a poly is going dead!
 
Juggernauts said:
Hi Sir, is this also applicable to multi string ? After using Gosen AK Control 17 for 15 hours, I notice the main strings are no longer straight. I didn't notice any notch on crosses or frying. I am a beginner who starts hitting harder recently. Thanks.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think this applies to multi filament strings, they move and get stuck out of place from the start. However, you might find that as they get older they notch and get stuck a bit and the string bed can lock up and start to feel a bit stiffer.

I haven't tried AK Control yet, so I don't know if that's the case there. It's on my list of interesting strings to try
 
GravitysElbow said:
No, I don't think this applies to multi filament strings, they move and get stuck out of place from the start. However, you might find that as they get older they notch and get stuck a bit and the string bed can lock up and start to feel a bit stiffer.

I haven't tried AK Control yet, so I don't know if that's the case there. It's on my list of interesting strings to try
Click to expand...
At the beginning the AK Control 17 full stringbed (50/48 lbs) seemed to lock up, not much moving. After about 4 months (15 hours of play), the main strings start to move a lot. At the same time I have started to hit with more spin and power. Therefore, I am not sure if the movements are caused by my strokes or aging string (losing tension).
 
Last edited:
Juggernauts said:
Hi Sir, is this also applicable to multi string ? After using Gosen AK Control 17 for 15 hours, I notice the main strings are no longer straight. I didn't notice any notch on crosses or frying. I am a beginner who starts hitting harder recently. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I agree w/ @GravitysElbow. Multis (and synthetic/natural gut) normally don't posses the 'snap back' quality of polys.

In fact, most multis/synthetics/natural gut retain their playability up until they break (assuming tension loss isn't a factor).
 
Juggernauts said:
At the beginning the AK Control 17 full stringbed (50/48 lbs) seemed to lock up, not much moving. After about 4 months (15 hours of play), the main strings start to move a lot. At the same time I have started to hit with more spin and power. Therefore, I am not sure if the movements are caused by my strokes or aging string (losing tension).
Click to expand...
I think you'd expect that as the strings lose tension they would launch the ball a bit higher, giving the impression of more power. A lot of people also report more spin from a lower tension. However, you might also be hitting better / harder! If you're able to keep the ball in the court (particularly on serve) then I wouldn't worry as long as you don't experience discomfort and it doesn't annoy you too much. If they start to feel stiff or start to behave unpredictably then you might want to change them. I sometimes find I lose directional control when the strings get too loose, but that's probably my trerrible tennis as much as the strings.

I know a lot of people on these boards really get upset by the movement of non-poly strings, but when I started out playing tennis in the 1980s / 1990s before the introduction of polyester all strings moved all the time (I never tried Kevlar). If I found I was having to adjust the strings a lot after every point, then I took that as a sign that I was hitting hard and with a decent amount of spin, so I was generally pleased to see it. I was more concerned if they didn't move.
 
GravitysElbow said:
but when I started out playing tennis in the 1980s / 1990s before the introduction of polyester all strings moved all the time (I never tried Kevlar)
Click to expand...
Kevlar/gut (or synthetic gut) moved as well. That is what I used from the late 80s up until the mid 2000s (started w/ Pro Blend, then moved to reels of Kevlar w/ Natural Gut after I graduated and had $).
 
Juggernauts said:
Hi Sir, is this also applicable to multi string ? After using Gosen AK Control 17 for 15 hours, I notice the main strings are no longer straight. I didn't notice any notch on crosses or frying. I am a beginner who starts hitting harder recently. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Its more common in multis to have string stay out of place. Typically due to loss of low friction coating and fraying. That increases string to string friction which will overcome any snapback potential in the string.

poly will stay in place longer as it remains low friction. tension and Elasticity loss will keep poly strings from snapping back.

I only use elastic co poly these days so it dies by loss of control rather than loss of resilience. When I can control the ball it’s time to cut it out.
 
Dartagnan64 said:
Its more common in multis to have string stay out of place. Typically due to loss of low friction coating and fraying. That increases string to string friction which will overcome any snapback potential in the string.
Click to expand...

This ^^^

While out-of-place strings don't bother me that much, I do like that multifilament slide much more often with a smooth poly cross.
 
when my polyester strings die i feel a
definite increased dwell time at contact and more shock/harshness with less ball action. usually about the 10-12 hour mark. strings are tourna big hitter blue or silver
 
non poly strings such as syn gut, multi go out of place quite quickly and easily so that isn’t really the determining factor. Dead strings will feel dead…as in no power and no resiliency. Ive seen people that actually don’t mind the deadness because it helps to tame the power of their shots so they’re never scared of hitting out. I’ve also noticed with RPM blast that there would be ‘hot spots’ in my string bed that would cause the ball to launch erratically on an otherwise standard ball.
 
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