How close is peak Djokovic on clay vs Nadals peak?

RF-18

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
2012-2013 I think we saw the best versions between the two battling eachother like there was no tomorrow, 2011 aswell where Djokovic I think was like 4-0 against him on the surface.

I think Nadal 2012-2013 on clay was the best Nadal I ever saw on clay, 2008 is up there aswell. Djokovic in 2011 was also peak performances and probably the best I've seen from him. But, their match in 2013 FO was by two men playing to their absolute best on clay, atleast IMO. And it got that close, Djokovic was in position to win that match.

They were pulling impossible shots on the most crucial stages of the match, the fight from Nadal was breathtaking, rarely seen, Djokovic aswell. I'll never forget this match, ever.

Enjoy in HD.
 
This would be a standard Nadal def. Fedovic in 4 RG final had Nadal not mugged serving for the fourth set. So much for Djokovic's peak level being anywhere close to Nadal's on clay, pfft.
And the way Nadal got broken from 30-15 up was nowhere near GOAT level: stupid UE, another UE (ok, credit to a Djokovic great return for inducing it), hit-shots-before-the-service-line rally ending up with an easy Djokovic winner. I think Nadal later said the wind (blowing in his direction) affected him, or something. Which is an excuse, which shows this isn't peak Nadal, because peak Nadal doesn't feel the need to make excuses.
 
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Tbh... not very close. Nadal at one point won 13 clay events in a row, 8 of them tier 1 tournaments. From MC 05 to Rome 2009 he won 22 of 24. Federer, Kuerten, Lendl and Muster weren't close either.

Borg was close enough to warrant a comparison, but that's about it.
 
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Sabratha said:
You also think 2014-2015 Federer was the best version you've ever seen.

Conclusion: you didn't watch tennis before 2011.
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To be fair, Nadal was absolutely unbelievable in 2012 on clay, although I'd rate 2008 as his best year ever on the surface.
 
TheFifthSet said:
To be fair, Nadal was absolutely unbelievable in 2012 on clay, although I'd rate 2008 as his best year ever on the surface.
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2012 Nadal blitzed Djokovic and it wasn't even close though. I'd expect 2008 Nadal would do even more damage to him.

2013 Nadal was coming back from injury and wasn't in the clay form of his life -- he was losing sets to guys like Brands on a regular basis.
 
Sabratha said:
2012 Nadal blitzed Djokovic and it wasn't even close though. I'd expect 2008 Nadal would do even more damage to him.

2013 Nadal was coming back from injury and wasn't in the clay form of his life -- he was losing sets to guys like Brands on a regular basis.
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Yes, 2013 wasn't as strong as some years, but I was only commenting on 2012. Great showing on clay, one of his best.
 
I just brought this up but it bears repeating:

From 2005 MC to 2009 Rome, Nadal won 22 of the 24 clay court tournaments he competed in. This haul included four RG's and 10 Masters events. In one of the two tournaments he didn't win, he reached the final, losing in three sets to the worlds second best clay courter. In Rome 2008, the second clay tourney he lost throughout that four year span, his foot was mangled and he was playing at well below full capacity.

So, forgive me if I find the thread a little head-scratching; is the answer not obvious?
 
2012 Nadal lost only 1 set on red clay. And he was hitting forehand winners at will at RG, he didn't even need his defence that much to win. 2012 was definately part of his clay peak, and in my subjective opinion, the best Nadal on clay I've ever seen.
 
Nadal's level at 2008 and 2012 Roland Garros, which I consider his peak performances, is a dominance far superior to anything that Djokovic has ever produced on that surface, so my vote goes to Nadal obviously.
 
RF-18 said:
I think Nadal 2012-2013 on clay was the best Nadal I ever saw on clay, 2008 is up there aswell. Djokovic in 2011 was also peak performances and probably the best I've seen from him. But, their match in 2013 FO was by two men playing to their absolute best on clay, atleast IMO. And it got that close, Djokovic was in position to win that match.
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  1. lolwut 2013 Nadal on clay was best Nadal, better than 2008? Are you kidding me?
  2. If that's the highest level you ever saw from him, it's quite clear you only started watching tennis in 2011
 
Not even close. Peak Nadal on clay is the most dominant player on any surface ever. Djokovic has taken advantage of a weak clay field (past-prime Nadal and Fed), but it is still his weakest surface.
 
Nadal's peak is greater. He is the true King of clay. Djokovic is no slouch on clay though, make no mistake about it. Not many ATG's could stand up to Nadal on clay the way Djokovic was able to.
 
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Not even worth a question. Nadal hands down, eyes shut, dreaming in Disney world on his peak will spank Djokovic.
 
Martin J said:
Nadal's level at 2008 and 2012 Roland Garros, which I consider his peak performances, is a dominance far superior to anything that Djokovic has ever produced on that surface, so my vote goes to Nadal obviously.
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I don't think ANYONE is disputing this, even OP (I hope)
 
As close as Seth Rollins is to peak HBK

giphy.gif
 
Krish872007 said:
Not too difficult actually - here's how I see it:
2012 was the best overall, followed by 2010
2008 was the best year at RG
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2008 RG, I have to agree. He also won the 3rd highest % of games at anyone at any slam, second to two of Borg's best years. No accident who is on top of that list either. ;)
 
Not even close.
Federer is the best measure stick.
The proof is that at 2011 FO semifinal 30-year-old Federer stopped peak Djo.But Federer couldn't beat Nadal at FO in his absolute prime 2004-2007.
 
2012-2013 Nadal had already started transforming his game to achieve greater success on other surfaces to the detriment of his dominance on clay. To suggest that was the best he ever was on the surface is absolutely absurd. The dude was a clay machine in the 00s.
 
a disgusting travesty of a game, Djokovic should have won it ... taking that point for touching the net .. what a JOKE !!!
 
Rafa's peak level on clay is the platinum standard to which players are compared to. Peak Rafa on clay was a juggernaut, pulverizing everything in its way.
 
Quite far, but not as far as some here would have you believe.
 
Dunno, but Peak Nadal would be winning almost every time, just like it happened in reality.


These comparisons are a bit silly though, OP.
Federer and Nadal are like the only guys all-time who are going to (and did) get the better of Djokovic more often than not, so why waste energy constantly trying to attack that fact, instead of just being happy with Novak being Tier 1 and dominant?

This constant struggle by a vocal few to try and paint Novak as the GREATEST EVAH!!!11 is pretty tiresome.
Just be happy with what you've got. Djokovic certainly is.
 
peak clayvic < peak muderer < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < RAFA

unbelievable disrespect to RAFA to even have him in the same sentence as those mugs, sorry.

thank you
 
If he was close it wouldnt be 1 vs 9 FO titles, unless you make the rather strange assumption that Nole didnt peak before may 2016. Rafa = clay-GOAT, Nole = (slow)HC-GOAT, Fed = grass-GOAT.
 
NatF said:
Does wide adoption mean it's right? Or specifically right for tennis?
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I can't really answer that. I would need to be a statistician. But from what I've read the system is pretty sound which is why it is so widely used. I wouldn't put much weight on small differences in ELO ratings but they provide a good way to make comparisons.

Delpo is a case in point. The official ranking would indicate he is not a real candidate to reach deep into the USO. But the ELO rating, that takes into account not only his recent wins at the Olympics but also who he beat, was predicting from the get go he would do very well.
 
GabeT said:
I can't really answer that. I would need to be a statistician. But from what I've read the system is pretty sound which is why it is so widely used. I wouldn't put much weight on small differences in ELO ratings but they provide a good way to make comparisons.

Delpo is a case in point. The official ranking would indicate he is not a real candidate to reach deep into the USO. But the ELO rating, that takes into account not only his recent wins at the Olympics but also who he beat, was predicting from the get go he would do very well.
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Sure, ELO is useful within a year in terms or ranking players level play. I don't find it so useful for ranking all time levels of play though - not useless but it has too many issues for it to be any more than something to perhaps ballpark. There is no substitute for watching matches IMO.
 
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