How come Murray didn't play against Nadal in GS final even once??

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
Seriously!! This is one thing, that just can't escape my mind! Out of 11 GS finals, that he reached most of them (7) he played against Novak and some of them (3) against Federer and once against Raonic! He is the only member of so called "big-4" (term that is no longer actual lmao!) that never faced Nadal in the finals! Whats up with that? I get it, that most of it got to do with Murray sucking on RG with his sole final appearance and Nadal having AO as his weakest slam, never having won more than once out of four finals as opposed to Murray, who reached most of his GS finals there amongst any other GS tournament, but still...
 

tennisfan2015

Hall of Fame
Archive Murray. Call the Darleks. Men in black. Anyone.

Just do not put him together in a conversation with the other 3. He does not deserve to be there. Hewt>Mug.

Get him to eat his porridge inglese, instead.
 
T

TennisFan97068

Guest
Pretty tough to face someone in slam finals when draws are rigged to constantly draw Djokovic-Federer in the same half to allow humble warrior easydrawdal the easier semifinal with Murray.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Met nine times in slams.

Seven wins for Nadal, two for Murray.

Mostly quarters and semis:

2007 AO R16
2008 Wimbers Quarters
2008 USO Semis
2010 AO Quarters
2010 Wimbers Semis
2011 FO Semis
2011 Wimbers Semis
2011 USO Semis
2014 FO Semis
 
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TimHenmanATG

Professional
I think the equation is pretty simple:

Andy's strongest Grand Slams are Wimbledon and the Australian Open, which happen to be Rafa's weakest Grand Slams.8 out of Murray's 11 Grand Slam finals have been at these two events.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Not enough peak overlap, draws and different preferred slams.

They didn't meet for a couple of years due to injuries from both in that 2012-2013 period. Since then Nadal's best slams have been the FO and the USO, which are Murray's two worst, also Nadal's worst slam has been Wimbledon which is one of Murray's best.
 

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
Not enough peak overlap, draws and different preferred slams.

They didn't meet for a couple of years due to injuries from both in that 2012-2013 period. Since then Nadal's best slams have been the FO and the USO, which are Murray's two worst, also Nadal's worst slam has been Wimbledon which is one of Murray's best.
Peak overlap! This is it! I really believe this is the key! Thanks for your insight!
 

George Turner

Hall of Fame
Met nine times in slams.

Seven wins for Nadal, two for Murray.

Mostly quarters and semis:

2007 AO R16
2008 Wimbers Quarters
2008 USO Semis
2010 AO Quarters
2010 Wimbers Semis
2011 FO Semis
2011 Wimbers Semis
2011 USO Semis
2014 FO Semis
I remember watching the 2007 AO match on tele. Murray was frequently abusing his box, Brad Gilbert looked so embarrassed sitting there. Those two weren't made for each other.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/2636825/Brad-Gilbert-admits-poor-relationship-with-Andy-Murray-but-backs-Scot-for-success.html
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I remember watching the 2007 AO match on tele. Murray was frequently abusing his box, Brad Gilbert looked so embarrassed sitting there. Those two weren't made for each other.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-1050200/Murray-argumentative-obsessed-playing-video-games-says-ex-coach-Gilbert.html
Murray's appointment of Lendl was the smartest thing he ever did. He needed someone that he already respected, that won slams, and that wouldn't take his crap. He was young in 2007 yes, but I still don't think Murray and Gilbert would've worked out in his prime years. He didn't really respect Gilbert. In his mind I suspect he thought "What did this guy ever do, other than win ugly."
 

clout

Hall of Fame
They sorta played the de-facto finals at the 2010 Wimbledon and they came very close to meeting at the 2012 Australian and 2017 French
 

Bike Man

New User
Wow, I did not realize that. I've never subscribed to the fixed-draw conspiracies, but this is quite a remarkable coincidence.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Only AO 2012 and RG 2017 were big chances for them to meet.

I believe they haven't played any slam finals because the general public is mostly interested in Fedal and Djokodal clashes in slam finals, so the draws are arranged accordingly. Murrdal is just not slam final material.

I'm not saying I buy into the fixed draws theory. Not to a full extent anyway.
 
Because Nadal was not good enough to reach the Gran slams finals that Murray did,
I.e. He got knocked out of the tourement
Same goes for Murray the other way round
 
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Sport

G.O.A.T.
Because Nadal was not good enough to reach the Gran slams finals that Murray did,
I.e. He got knocked out of the tourement
Same goes for Murray the other way round
What the hell? Nadal has played 27 Grand Slam finals and Murray only 11. That is, Nadal has reached more than double of Murray's finals. Nadal has also made at least 4 finals in any GS. If anything, it is mainly Murray's fault for not reaching more finals.
 
Not enough peak overlap, draws and different preferred slams.

They didn't meet for a couple of years due to injuries from both in that 2012-2013 period. Since then Nadal's best slams have been the FO and the USO, which are Murray's two worst, also Nadal's worst slam has been Wimbledon which is one of Murray's best.
What the hell? Nadal has played 27 Grand Slam finals and Murray only 11. That is, Nadal has reached more than double of Murray's finals. Nadal has also made at least 4 finals in any GS. If anything, it is mainly Murray's fault for not reaching more finals.
I was being pedantic, but above is the most likely expanation.
 
Who wants Murray in a slam final anyways? Guy is as boring as watching paint dry. Hes always been the "best of the rest". No one to want to root for. Give me Henman any day over Murray.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Who wants Murray in a slam final anyways? Guy is as boring as watching paint dry. Hes always been the "best of the rest". No one to want to root for. Give me Henman any day over Murray.
I do (and so do all my fellow Murray fans) especially at Wimbledon. His tennis is infinitely more exciting to watch than having to read any of your posts.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Murray and Nadal may never have met in a Slam final but Murray is, interestingly, 3-1 vs Nadal in the 4 ATP finals they have played (2009 Rotterdam, 2009 Indian Wells, 2011 Tokyo and 2015 Madrid). Nadal's only victory came at Indian Wells.

So Nadal couldn't even beat Murray in the one claycourt final they played and at his biggest home tournament too! :cool:
 
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Enceladus

Hall of Fame
It's good for Murray, because his already bad GS final balance (3-8) was even worse, if played GS final with Nadal.
 

pmh1983

New User
As much as going 0-3 against Federer and 2-5 against Djokovic in GS finals has hurt Murray, going 1-5 against Nadal in GS semi-finals is equally as painful.

In total Murray is 1-5 against Federer, 2-8 against Djokovic and 2-7 against Nadal in all GS matches., a total of 5-20 which is poor. Any of the below matches he could have, perhaps even should have won:

2007 Australian Open R16 vs Nadal
2011 Wimbledon SF vs Nadal
2012 Australian Open SF vs Djokovic
2012 Wimbledon Final vs Federer
2013 Australian Open Final vs Djokovic
2015 Australian Open Final vs Djokovic

Winning even just a couple of those would have padded Murray's stats out, perhaps yielded a couple more majors and cemented Murray's legacy even more.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
I think the equation is pretty simple:

Andy's strongest Grand Slams are Wimbledon and the Australian Open, which happen to be Rafa's weakest Grand Slams.8 out of Murray's 11 Grand Slam finals have been at these two events.
No, that is not the reason. Wimbledon 08, 09 (before he withdrew), 10, 11, 12 and 13, Nadal was drawn into Murray's half. You cannot meet in a final, if you are on the same side.

If Federer kept drawing Djokovic, it only makes sense that Nadal kept drawing Murray.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
As much as going 0-3 against Federer and 2-5 against Djokovic in GS finals has hurt Murray, going 1-5 against Nadal in GS semi-finals is equally as painful.

In total Murray is 1-5 against Federer, 2-8 against Djokovic and 2-7 against Nadal in all GS matches., a total of 5-20 which is poor. Any of the below matches he could have, perhaps even should have won:

2007 Australian Open R16 vs Nadal
2011 Wimbledon SF vs Nadal
2012 Australian Open SF vs Djokovic
2012 Wimbledon Final vs Federer
2013 Australian Open Final vs Djokovic
2015 Australian Open Final vs Djokovic

Winning even just a couple of those would have padded Murray's stats out, perhaps yielded a couple more majors and cemented Murray's legacy even more.
The last 3 aren't even close to being matches Murray should have won.
 

Plamen1234

Hall of Fame
What the hell? Nadal has played 27 Grand Slam finals and Murray only 11. That is, Nadal has reached more than double of Murray's finals. Nadal has also made at least 4 finals in any GS. If anything, it is mainly Murray's fault for not reaching more finals.
Nadal has played 24 GS finals not 27.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The last 3 aren't even close to being matches Murray should have won.
Dead wrong about 2013 AO (did you even watch that match?). That was one AO final he really could and should have won. Even the commentators thought so. He was a set up and ahead in the 2nd set tie-break and playing really well until he got distracted by that stupid feather floating down and then completely lost his focus. His fault of course but it was certainly a match he could have won, his best opportunity in an AO final ever.
 

pmh1983

New User
The last 3 aren't even close to being matches Murray should have won.
'Any of the below matches he could have, perhaps even should have won'.

I put more emphasis on the could have as opposed to the should have. My point was in those matches there was a point he was a set all and so in theory had a 50/50 chance and yet didn't get the job done.

2012 Wimbledon final
Murray had break points in the second set after winning the first, including 2 at 4-4 (may have even been 15-40). He takes those and serves out the second set, big chance to win.

2013 Australian Open final
He had beaten Federer for the first time in a major in the SF so was very confident, wins the first set and was competitive in the 2nd set tb until a feather of all things put him off.

2015 Australian Open final
Was a set all and a break up in the third set, then loses something like 11 out of the final 12 games of the match.

Think the above gives a little weight to the could have I said earlier.....
 

TimHenmanATG

Professional
No, that is not the reason. Wimbledon 08, 09 (before he withdrew), 10, 11, 12 and 13, Nadal was drawn into Murray's half. You cannot meet in a final, if you are on the same side.

If Federer kept drawing Djokovic, it only makes sense that Nadal kept drawing Murray.
Rafael Nadal has a notoriously ''bad''' record at the Oz Open and Wimbers. I use the word '''bad'' in inverted commas, because 99% of current and past pros would die for Rafa's achievements at these two events.This just goes to show how unintentionally high we've raised the bar in the ''Big 4'' era.

Yes, Andy was in the same half of the draw as Rafa in many of those tournaments, but Nadal failed to meet up to his seeding, which further illustrates my point surrounding their best/worst Grand Slams.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
Rafael Nadal has a notoriously ''bad''' record at the Oz Open and Wimbers. I use the word '''bad'' in inverted commas, because 99% of current and past pros would die for Rafa's achievements at these two events.This just goes to show how unintentionally high we've raised the bar in the ''Big 4'' era.

Yes, Andy was in the same half of the draw as Rafa in many of those tournaments, but Nadal failed to meet up to his seeding, which further illustrates my point surrounding their best/worst Grand Slams.
We are talking about slam finals only here. Bad form or good form, the lion's share of the time, they could only meet in semis, hence why no finals took place.

2010 was a great example, for me, Nadal and Murray were the top two players that year, but it was a semi. The final was never in doubt, but people were interested in how that semi would go down.
 

Zara

Legend
Met nine times in slams.

Seven wins for Nadal, two for Murray.

Mostly quarters and semis:

2007 AO R16
2008 Wimbers Quarters
2008 USO Semis
2010 AO Quarters
2010 Wimbers Semis
2011 FO Semis
2011 Wimbers Semis
2011 USO Semis
2014 FO Semis
Was there ever a possibility where Murray could have met Nadal in the final but one or both of them didn't make it? As a Murray fan, I don't seem to remember such a possibility but things could change in the coming years.
 

Plamen1234

Hall of Fame
2016 RG says otherwise.
Why Murray didnt let Stan win the SF?Seriously Stan would have put more resistance to Djokovic in the final.Murray took only 7 games in the last 3 sets - Stan would have done definitely better plus take into account that Stan defeated 3 times Djokovic in Slams in 2014-2016 period while Murray -zero times.So without a doubt Stan would have done better against Djokovic in RG 2016.
 
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Mainad

Bionic Poster
Why Murray didnt let Stan win the SF?Seriously Stan would have put more resistance to Djokovic in the final.Murray took only 7 games in the last 3 sets - Stan would have done definitely better plus take into account that Stan defeated 3 times Djokovic in Slams in 2014-2016 period while Murray -zero times.So without a doubt Stan would have done better against Djokovic in RG 2016.
Murray was eager to make his 1st final at RG so why should he have stepped aside for Stan? Unfortunately he peaked at the wrong time. When he reached the final he ran out of gas after taking the 1st set (the accumulation of all those early 5 setters finally caught up with him at the worst time possible). On top of everything else, I suspect he wasn't exactly eager to help Stan build up his Slam count and possibly overtake him at some point.

The following year they both met in the RG semis again and this time Stan got his revenge but at a heavy cost. The toll it took on him to get past Murray (who was already hampered by his hip injury) told and, like Andy the year before, he had nothing left for the final. In fact he had sprung a serious knee injury of his own. That semi-final cost both players. Neither have been the same since.
 
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