How do I beat a junkballer?

[PM_]

I have a friend at my club that I’ve played several times, but each time he takes the cake on me.

Him/ NTRP ???(must be better than me?)
Extremely agile, all-courter, has a 120+mph hard flat serve off a 6‘2“ frame, throws all kind of junk at me: sidespins, underspins, the occasional hard topspin, likes to come to the net often.

Weaknesses: Low 1st server %, a dinker 2nd serve, 1HB with no pace.

This guy only has only one grip, it’s an eastern one and he chokes up on his racquet (strange).

Me/4.0 (getting worse?)
Left-handed, can serve a hard flat 1st(120+) and and off-pace/hard biting slice for 2nd, s-western heavy topspin baseliner, strong 2HB, can run down almost anything in range.

Weaknesses: many times neglect to finish off points with flat winners instead opting to use more and more topspin.

He’s one of the only few that I’ve played who can set up for my left-handed slice serve effectively each time! Is he reading my location??? (I don’t give it away with my eyes.)
He’s just as fast as me if not quicker, more agile.
My topspin lobbing has improved dramatically because I use it so many times but I think he’s beating me because he knows I’m a baseliner who favors heavy topspin and he’s skidding everything low.

Is there any way I can beat him without coming to the net all the time?

 

[JackRabbit]

There's nothing a junkballer hates more than another junkballer.

 

[Mattle]

i'm not able to tell how you could bet this guy through this thread. So the only thing i can tell you is: notice what's his weakness and then make a plan

 

[kevhen]

I know one 4.0 who had his serve clocked at 118 and I have had mine clocked at 110mph but congrats if you are the first 4.0 with a 120 mph serve.

 

[FiveO]

-Attack him. Don't over hit but attack.
-Maintain your depth baseline to baseline.
-Hard to junk ball when pinned behind the baseline.
-Step in and look to move forward instead of being jerked forward on his terms.
-Look to move forward especially off that 2nd serve.
-You'll need a reliable volley and overhead.
-Hit offensively when in offensive positions.
-Bias your attack and approaches toward that bh weakness.
-Avoid a prolonged rally unless you are dictating the terms. If he tries to get you going fh to fh change the direction of the rally by getting the ball dtl to his bh A.S.A.P.. A loop or a floater to the bh side can be sufficient to change to th bh exchange which favors you.
-Recognize put aways when you earn them and close out the point from mid-court or at net when the ball is above net height and the angle or the lane dtl presents itself.
-Don't fall into his game unless it is your a game. If you aren't a junk-baller to start that is probably plan Z.
-In short dictate with your best stuff into his weakness and point end from the mid-court or net when the opportunity presents itself..

 

[PM_]

Thanks FiveO. You're right on with him always jerking me forward with his off-pace junk.

Sorry Kev, I guess I was on auto-pilot with my profile, it's 110mph+, not 120mph+ like my friend is. A few years ago, I did, however clock myself at 120 consistently.

It's obvious I need to work on my volley/overhead skills. I've been so comfortable behind the baseline for so long I've almost forgot how to come up again.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

check my posting
Playing pushers
in the Sticky (topmost thread here)
there's a nice collection there

 

[wings56]

Well, being a junkballer myself I can tell you this: I like coming to net, but on my terms, I hate having someone hit a short slice and having to come up with a decent approach. Also, I don't like playing another junkballer. Someone who pins me back with heavy topspin then hits a short slice tears me up. That's my two cents. Hope it helps.

 

[michael2kul4u]

I have a friend at my club that I’ve played several times, but each time he takes the cake on me.

Him/ NTRP ???(must be better than me?)
Extremely agile, all-courter, has a 120+mph hard flat serve off a 6‘2“ frame, throws all kind of junk at me: sidespins, underspins, the occasional hard topspin, likes to come to the net often.

Weaknesses: Low 1st server %, a dinker 2nd serve, 1HB with no pace.

This guy only has only one grip, it’s an eastern one and he chokes up on his racquet (strange).

Me/4.0 (getting worse?)
Left-handed, can serve a hard flat 1st(120+) and and off-pace/hard biting slice for 2nd, s-western heavy topspin baseliner, strong 2HB, can run down almost anything in range.

Weaknesses: many times neglect to finish off points with flat winners instead opting to use more and more topspin.

He’s one of the only few that I’ve played who can set up for my left-handed slice serve effectively each time! Is he reading my location??? (I don’t give it away with my eyes.)
He’s just as fast as me if not quicker, more agile.
My topspin lobbing has improved dramatically because I use it so many times but I think he’s beating me because he knows I’m a baseliner who favors heavy topspin and he’s skidding everything low.

Is there any way I can beat him without coming to the net all the time?

if you play them enough, you will get better and exentually win!

 

[Golden Retriever]

Don't try to beat the junkballer. Use him as a backboard to groove your strokes. You wouldn't get all those sitters to practise your strokes with any other kind of players. You will get better but he will not. One day, maybe a month or maybe 5 yrs later, you will be able to put away those sitters with ease and he won't be able to get them back anymore. Now that you have done with him, you say thanks and move on.

 

[Geezer Guy]

Attack his serves! You say he has a low percentage First Serve, and a dink Second Serve. You should IMMEDIATELY go on offense when you receive a second serve. If possible, attack his first serve often. You want to get him to overhit his first serve (so he'll miss more) and you'll see more of his dink 2nds. On second serve, set up closer to the service line than you normally do. Then step in and take the ball at the peak of it's bounce, and drive it to his weak backhand side. You're lefthanded, so all your cross-court forehands are going to his backhand. You say he has a weak backhand, so pound that sucker all day long.

You called him a junkballer, but say he also throws in a lot of topspin shots. It's important you watch his racquet take-back and follow-through so you'll know what the ball is going to do. Then, get to the ball early and set up. You need to be able to handle whatever crazy thing the ball is going to do after the bounce.

Normally when I play a junkballer I try to get to the net fairly early in the point. Generally a junkballer doesn't have a lot of pace on the ball, so it's farily easy to volley them for winners. If your opponent hit's a number of hard shots as well as junkballs, and if you're not comfortable at net, go ahead and play most points from the baseline. Just remember to split step, anticipate where the ball is going and how it's going to bounce, and get there early.

AND, his shots will take a while to adjust to. Warm up as long as you can before starting the match. You may lose the first few games. Don't get down on yourself. Just hang in there, play tough mentally, and give your brain a chance to figure out his strokes. You may even lose the first set, but if you have good solid strokes and are in good shape there's no reason you can't come back and win the next two sets.

 

[PM_]

Thanks everyone.

Thanks Geezer. The guy utilizes a lot of unorthodox wrist actions/movement.
He reminds me of a magician.
Even on that dinker second, he puts some kind of topspin over it b/c he can with the way he grips his racquet. But worse, as soon as he misses that flat bomb he doesn't give me enough time to adjust and move in the baseline for his second. I complained a few times that he had to give me a few seconds to get ready but LOL he won't none of that. He just pulls out that ball and feeds me his second.
Very annoying.
But he's my friend. He testifies that he has right of way to control the pace on his serve which I think is a bit bs-ish.

 

[JeffH1]

Play like it's a practice session

unless it's a tourney. If you can get rid of the win at all cost mindset, which your opponent is counting on, you'll play more relaxed and create more winners. Even the pros blow it when they have to much time to think.

 

[FiveO]

...But worse, as soon as he misses that flat bomb he doesn't give me enough time to adjust and move in the baseline for his second. I complained a few times that he had to give me a few seconds to get ready but LOL he won't none of that. He just pulls out that ball and feeds me his second.
Very annoying.
But he's my friend. He testifies that he has right of way to control the pace on his serve which I think is a bit bs-ish.

Not only 'bs-ish' in violation of the Rules of Tennis if approached properly:

"RULE 12 : When To Serve
The Server shall not serve until the Receiver is ready. If the latter attempts to return the service, he shall be deemed ready. If, however, the Receiver signifies that he is not ready, he may not claim a fault because the ball does not hit the ground within the limits fixed for the service.

[USTA Comment: The Server must wait until the Receiver is ready for the second service as well as the first, and if the Receiver claims to be not ready and does not make any effort to return a service, the Server's claim for the point may not be honored even though the service was good. However, the Receiver, having indicated he is ready, may not become unready unless some outside interference takes place.]"

While some rules are black and white, some are applied as to what is most "reasonable", especially in the case where two rules appear to be in conflict. In this case "Playing to the Server's Reasonable Pace of Play" vs. "Quick Serving."

 

[Geezer Guy]

... as soon as he misses that flat bomb he doesn't give me enough time to adjust and move in the baseline for his second. I complained a few times that he had to give me a few seconds to get ready but LOL he won't none of that. He just pulls out that ball and feeds me his second. Very annoying. ...

Yes, isn't it! I've had opponents who would take PLENTY of time to clear a missed first serve if it was on THEIR side of the net, but if they miss long they try to fire in that 2nd serve immediately while the ball's still rolling around along my baseline.

I normally DO make every effort when receiving to play at the pace of the server, but I've stepped on a stray ball and twisted my ankle during the final of a club tournament, and now I ALWAYS make sure there are no balls in the playing field before each point starts. (And that IS within the rules.)

 

[kevhen]

Hold out your hand after every long first serve to let him know you aren't ready yet for his second serve until the balls have stopped rolling around. Just get in the habit of doing that and he will get in the habit of slowing down between serves so you eventually won't have to do that anymore. You should yell 'let' right away if he does start to serve while your hand is still up.

 

[fastdunn]

I also noticed lots of these crafty junkballers are very good at
reading other players strokes and playing patterns. So don't be
predictable too much.

By the way, I do not like the term "junkballers". I would like
to respect them more with better terms like crafty players
with variety of shots or something ?

 

[Geezer Guy]

I think Spin Doctor is a nicer term for Junk Baller.

Both indicate someone who hits with less pace, but lots of different spins.

ANYONE can be crafty (or predictable).

 

[Thanatos]

I have a friend at my club that I’ve played several times, but each time he takes the cake on me.

Him/ NTRP ???(must be better than me?)
Extremely agile, all-courter, has a 120+mph hard flat serve off a 6‘2“ frame, throws all kind of junk at me: sidespins, underspins, the occasional hard topspin, likes to come to the net often.

Weaknesses: Low 1st server %, a dinker 2nd serve, 1HB with no pace.

This guy only has only one grip, it’s an eastern one and he chokes up on his racquet (strange).

Me/4.0 (getting worse?)
Left-handed, can serve a hard flat 1st(120+) and and off-pace/hard biting slice for 2nd, s-western heavy topspin baseliner, strong 2HB, can run down almost anything in range.

Weaknesses: many times neglect to finish off points with flat winners instead opting to use more and more topspin.

He’s one of the only few that I’ve played who can set up for my left-handed slice serve effectively each time! Is he reading my location??? (I don’t give it away with my eyes.)
He’s just as fast as me if not quicker, more agile.
My topspin lobbing has improved dramatically because I use it so many times but I think he’s beating me because he knows I’m a baseliner who favors heavy topspin and he’s skidding everything low.

Is there any way I can beat him without coming to the net all the time?

Take away his groundstrokes by Serve and Volleying.
On his service game...Chip and Charge.

 

[jtreed2000]

FiveO nailed it on the head.
You don't need to play pure S&V, but work on your volleys and look for opportunities to put pressure on him or move him. Coming to the net takes away the time he needs to "work" the ball. Get the short/low ones back deep and look for a ball to put away at the net. Since you said his 1HB is not hit with pace, this would be the side I would approach on. For one, it gives you more time, and two, it also seems he has fewer options with his BH. When he starts to lean to the BH on your approach, hit a short angle to his FH to surprise him. If you start to get passed/lobbed regularly at the net off your approach(he will figure out the pattern), go back to the baseline until you have a short ball to work with. You can also try to be more aggressive with your volleys and anticipate the short slices, but be careful not to be too greedy and overhit/go wide. Good luck!