How do you get better at doubles positioning and shot selection?

[EddieBrock]

This season I have a losing record in doubles with only a few matches to go, which is very frustrating since I'm playing better than ever in singles practice matches and I'm striking the ball really well.

Before my serve was a huge liability, but (knock of wood) I've improved it to the point where it's almost more of an asset sometimes. The rest of my game feels very strong too. Yet I lost 1 close match and got completely destroyed in my last match. The only games we won in the loss was on my serve.

It just feels like there isn't enough time to get into any rhythm and there is conflicting information on movement and where to stand and so many variations in opponents and partners. Some say to move to cover the line when your opponent serves out wide, others say to be further back and move toward the middle, etc.

My main problem is it feels like I'm too passive at the net still on my partner's serve and I'm not putting away the volleys I do get. There are some I've hit from above the net where the opponent runs it down and hits it for a winner or lobs over us. My reaction volleys are pretty good, but I let too many balls go by me or I go for ones I shouldn't and pop them up.

The other issue is on the return games vs. better plays just popping the ball up and the opposing net player puts it away or I won't read the serve and just miss returns. In singles I will miss a few returns in a row too, but then I'll kind of dial in and can be aggressive. With doubles there's no time. I miss or hit weak returns twice and the game is over.

Some guys I play with in singles who play 4.5 say I could play low 4.5 in singles and should win at 4.0, but my issue in singles is I get terrible leg cramps when I push myself too hard. Last few times I play practice matches if we had close first sets I'd run out of steam by late in the 2nd and have to rest for a few minutes. That's fine in practice, but not in a league match.

So I'd really like to improve my doubles. What drills can I do with a coach or friend or what can I work on?

 

[user92626]

My main problem is it feels like I'm too passive at the net still on my partner's serve and I'm not putting away the volleys I do get. There are some I've hit from above the net where the opponent runs it down and hits it for a winner or lobs over us. My reaction volleys are pretty good, but I let too many balls go by me or I go for ones I shouldn't and pop them up.

Wow... you and me both have these issues.

I think our timing (and thus rhythm to everything) is late or very late. We need to up it one whole note!

For example: if you are used to SS-hopping on opponent's contact, then you'll need to hop on his start at the back swing.

We need to start seeing/tracking the ball as soon as it's leaving opponent's racket. Not later than that.

We need to practice killing the ball at the net instead of simply volleying it back. It's a mechanical issue.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Best drill to switch the mind from singles to doubles. Play doubles to 10 or some arbitrary score, no one gets any points at all if the return or the serve is a winner/ace, you only get a point if your serve or your return sets up your partner and yourself, sets you up at the net for a winning position.

Some common problems with doubles, hard serves aren't good, aces aren't good, return winners aren't good Sure, it's fun, but the way to repeatably win at doubles, over and over is to get into position at the net and control that net.

I'll give you a funny example of the wrong thought process, I had a match 2 weeks ago where my lefty serve placed very precisely to the backhand or the body of the returner resulted in a miss into the net or an easy putaway for me or my partner. Getting the 1st serve in really matters. Then one time, up 40-0 I decided to hit a very hard flat serve, like a pinball the opponent almost returned it for a winner because it was bam-bam and not well placed. ALL 3 people on the court said wow, nice serve! The whole match I'm carefully placing slow but really nice kick / slice lefty serves producing winning points over and over, and the one time I do a hard flashy serve that really wasn't effective, they all think wow nice serve.

Doubles is a completely different mindset than singles in many ways.

 

[socallefty]

It just feels like there isn't enough time to get into any rhythm and there is conflicting information on movement and where to stand and so many variations in opponents and partners. Some say to move to cover the line when your opponent serves out wide, others say to be further back and move toward the middle, etc.

My main problem is it feels like I'm too passive at the net still on my partner's serve and I'm not putting away the volleys I do get. There are some I've hit from above the net where the opponent runs it down and hits it for a winner or lobs over us. My reaction volleys are pretty good, but I let too many balls go by me or I go for ones I shouldn't and pop them up.

First you have to understand doubles positioning and movement at the net along with syncing your movement with your partner’s. I suggest buying a good doubles textbook like ‘Art of Doubles’ to help with that.

In order to put away volleys and poach effectively, you have to be able to drive your volleys accurately to the desired target spots with some pace. Many rec players know only how to hit drop volleys and therefore will never become good doubles players at the net without drive volley skills. If you don’t know how to drive your volleys till it is a strength, I suggest working on this with a coach. Overhead skills are important also as opponents will try to lob you if you are poaching aggressively until you make them pay with good overheads.

 

[LuckyR]

You definitely can (and should) learn classic doubles strategy and books are a pretty accessible way of doing that. However, "optimal" doubles strategy/positioning is only"optimal" if your partner is also using that strategy/positioning. If you're not going to review what you guys are doing as a team beforehand, then what "optimal" play on your part is, will vary depending on what your partner is doing, and knowing what that is on the fly, is typically knowable after lots of doubles experience. Long story short, your journey will be more efficient if you're doing it with a similarly motivated partner.

 

[Jono123]

Stand more central in the box and you'll have less distance to cover.

 

[nyta2]

This season I have a losing record in doubles with only a few matches to go, which is very frustrating since I'm playing better than ever in singles practice matches and I'm striking the ball really well.

Before my serve was a huge liability, but (knock of wood) I've improved it to the point where it's almost more of an asset sometimes. The rest of my game feels very strong too. Yet I lost 1 close match and got completely destroyed in my last match. The only games we won in the loss was on my serve.

was it due to your serve, skill of your net partner, and/or your ability to come to net behind the serve?

It just feels like there isn't enough time to get into any rhythm and there is conflicting information on movement and where to stand and so many variations in opponents and partners. Some say to move to cover the line when your opponent serves out wide, others say to be further back and move toward the middle, etc.

experiment.
try a single model "eg. follow the the serve"... so if the serve goes out wide, you move closer to line to cover...
are you still able to poach? (eg. maybe opponent is having trouble with your partner's out wide kicker and can't hit down the line... so don't bother covering it until they prove they can multiple times)
are you getting beat down the line? (eg. maybe opponent is shading wide, or they have an incredible good return on that side - but the solution *could* be to cover down the line more, OR more likely i would just avoid the wide serve and prefer body and tee)
adjust.
there's no single rule, and it will vary based on your partner quality of shot, and your opponents... but come up with a model, then tweak it from there.. if you don't have a model copy someone's, then adjust on what works/doesn't work.

My main problem is it feels like I'm too passive at the net still on my partner's serve and I'm not putting away the volleys I do get.

imo most lower level net players are stuck in the mud... trying playing a match were you must either (a) poach (b) fake... and never just "standing still covering your side"
honestly if they are like i was, they are silently/unconsciously hoping the baseliner won't hit the ball to them at net (eg. because back then, it would expose how bad my volleys were).

There are some I've hit from above the net where the opponent runs it down and hits it for a winner or lobs over us.

not every volley is going to be a winner, and against better opponents, maybe they will hit great lobs or winnners...
but at the net, learn the targets (at least 5), and start familiarizing the usual returns
common mistake on volleying at "above the net" ball, is to go back "hard" to the baseline person, when it should be angled away, a hole between, or at least at the net person (force a reaction volley)
(eg placement over power)

My reaction volleys are pretty good, but I let too many balls go by me or I go for ones I shouldn't and pop them up.

happens... part of the learning... but err on the side of going for it and missing if you want to improve (ie. in a practice match vs. a usta match - but if you only play usta matches, then that's your problem )

The other issue is on the return games vs. better plays just popping the ball up and the opposing net player puts it away or I won't read the serve and just miss returns.

returns require practice..
are you attacking the contact? body weight going forward, etc...
when i pop up too many cuz the server is better than my ability to return... i just resort to lobbing until hopefully i can adjust (against very good players, their serve is just too good for me to improve enough with the match... heavy serving lefties on the adSide are my bane, especially if they can consistently follow up with a flatTee serve)

In singles I will miss a few returns in a row too, but then I'll kind of dial in and can be aggressive. With doubles there's no time. I miss or hit weak returns twice and the game is over.

yep dubs is generally very arrhythmic...
for me, important to refer back to cues and habits (you'll need to form your own), so it doesn't take a set to get used to a shot...

Some guys I play with in singles who play 4.5 say I could play low 4.5 in singles and should win at 4.0, but my issue in singles is I get terrible leg cramps when I push myself too hard. Last few times I play practice matches if we had close first sets I'd run out of steam by late in the 2nd and have to rest for a few minutes. That's fine in practice, but not in a league match.

heh, same, especially if hot out, against a grinder...

So I'd really like to improve my doubles. What drills can I do with a coach or friend or what can I work on?

imo #1 prio is finding a partner that is open to trying different doubles patterns (eg. poaching 3 out of 4 points, various formations, poachign on 2nd serves, poaching on 2nd server *returns*, etc...)
i also play alot of "singles doubles" to practice serve & first volley, and returns (or return and charge)

 

[EddieBrock]

First you have to understand doubles positioning and movement at the net along with syncing your movement with your partner’s. I suggest buying a good doubles textbook like ‘Art of Doubles’ to help with that.

In order to put away volleys and poach effectively, you have to be able to drive your volleys accurately to the desired target spots with some pace. Many rec players know only how to hit drop volleys and therefore will never become good doubles players at the net without drive volley skills. If you don’t know how to drive your volleys till it is a strength, I suggest working on this with a coach. Overhead skills are important also as opponents will try to lob you if you are poaching aggressively until you make them pay with good overheads.

I think my problem is in a match situation I guide the volley with just my arm and don't get my legs and whole body into the volley. I was working on that with a coach the other day. My overhead is usually pretty solid.

You definitely can (and should) learn classic doubles strategy and books are a pretty accessible way of doing that. However, "optimal" doubles strategy/positioning is only"optimal" if your partner is also using that strategy/positioning. If you're not going to review what you guys are doing as a team beforehand, then what "optimal" play on your part is, will vary depending on what your partner is doing, and knowing what that is on the fly, is typically knowable after lots of doubles experience. Long story short, your journey will be more efficient if you're doing it with a similarly motivated partner.

I know the basics, but there are some shot situations like when your partner his a first serve out wide I've heard conflicting information. Same with where to stand in the box when your partner is serving. When I'm playing I stand in more towards the alley, but other people have said you should be further back and more towards the center. A few times I've tried that I've been passed down the alley and my partner got upset I wasn't covering it even though I did feel like I could get more balls overall.

was it due to your serve, skill of your net partner, and/or your ability to come to net behind the serve?

experiment.
try a single model "eg. follow the the serve"... so if the serve goes out wide, you move closer to line to cover...
are you still able to poach? (eg. maybe opponent is having trouble with your partner's out wide kicker and can't hit down the line... so don't bother covering it until they prove they can multiple times)
are you getting beat down the line? (eg. maybe opponent is shading wide, or they have an incredible good return on that side - but the solution *could* be to cover down the line more, OR more likely i would just avoid the wide serve and prefer body and tee)
adjust.
there's no single rule, and it will vary based on your partner quality of shot, and your opponents... but come up with a model, then tweak it from there.. if you don't have a model copy someone's, then adjust on what works/doesn't work.

imo most lower level net players are stuck in the mud... trying playing a match were you must either (a) poach (b) fake... and never just "standing still covering your side"
honestly if they are like i was, they are silently/unconsciously hoping the baseliner won't hit the ball to them at net (eg. because back then, it would expose how bad my volleys were).

not every volley is going to be a winner, and against better opponents, maybe they will hit great lobs or winnners...
but at the net, learn the targets (at least 5), and start familiarizing the usual returns
common mistake on volleying at "above the net" ball, is to go back "hard" to the baseline person, when it should be angled away, a hole between, or at least at the net person (force a reaction volley)
(eg placement over power)

happens... part of the learning... but err on the side of going for it and missing if you want to improve (ie. in a practice match vs. a usta match - but if you only play usta matches, then that's your problem )

returns require practice..
are you attacking the contact? body weight going forward, etc...
when i pop up too many cuz the server is better than my ability to return... i just resort to lobbing until hopefully i can adjust (against very good players, their serve is just too good for me to improve enough with the match... heavy serving lefties on the adSide are my bane, especially if they can consistently follow up with a flatTee serve)

yep dubs is generally very arrhythmic...
for me, important to refer back to cues and habits (you'll need to form your own), so it doesn't take a set to get used to a shot...

heh, same, especially if hot out, against a grinder...

imo #1 prio is finding a partner that is open to trying different doubles patterns (eg. poaching 3 out of 4 points, various formations, poachign on 2nd serves, poaching on 2nd server *returns*, etc...)
i also play alot of "singles doubles" to practice serve & first volley, and returns (or return and charge)

Those games I won on my serve were a combination of me serving well with a lot of 1st serves in and my partner doing a great job putting away volleys at the net. Basically I'd serve and see him hitting an aggressive first volley and then cleaning up and finishing the point with the next if the 1st wasn't a winner. Also, if I get myself in position for the shot after the return and am at least neutral I like my chances against anyone in a cross court rally so I can keep going until my partner finishes at the net or I get a short ball I can attack and come in behind. The fact that my partner did a great job putting away volleys on my serve made me all the more upset I wasn't doing the same on his.

It makes sense to try different things with different opponents.

With doubles I pretty much only play usta matches even though I play singles 2x or 3x times a week. If I play doubles during my lesson for practice it's not at all realistic to my league matches... I can basically stand towards the alley and volley anything that comes towards me and my coach will take care of everything else. Plus on the other side is a coach and rec player and I'm trying to avoid the coach so the targets are different than my matches. I just don't know much beneficial that is for improving my record. For some reason we can't usually get 4 people on the league to practice and aside from playing with this last partner twice I usually play with a different one each time.

What I should have done and should do going forward is if we're losing tell my partner we need to try different things and throw in plays like you mentioned or maybe Australian formation or something like that.

Something else I wondered about is hitting short slice returns off a 2nd serve. Everyone tells me to rip 2nd serve returns, but it seems like a short angled drop shot every now and then or a topspin lob off a weak 2nd serve would be even more effective than just ripping the ball cross court each time.

 

[socallefty]

think my problem is in a match situation I guide the volley with just my arm and don't get my legs and whole body into the volley.

That usually happens with players who are flatfooted at the net and don’t move their feet till the opponent hits the ball. You should split step and move as soon as your partner’s shot crosses the net and you can recognize the quality and direction of the shot. On good shots, take a step forward in the direction of the shot - that will allow you to poach more. On weak shots, maybe take a step back in case you get lobbed or brace yourself with racquet up for a hard shot at you. It is important to keep your racquet up in your alert stance always at the net.

I‘ve posted doubles net footwork videos multiple times in the past and you can search for them also. A good net player is constantly moving his feet at the net often on his toes and never standing planted.

 

[ey039524]

That usually happens with players who are flatfooted at the net and don’t move their feet till the opponent hits the ball. You should split step and move as soon as your partner’s shot crosses the net and you can recognize the quality and direction of the shot. On good shots, take a step forward in the direction of the shot - that will allow you to poach more. On weak shots, maybe take a step back in case you get lobbed or brace yourself with racquet up for a hard shot at you. It is important to keep your racquet up in your alert stance always at the net.

I‘ve posted doubles net footwork videos multiple times in the past and you can search for them also. A good net player is constantly moving his feet at the net often on his toes and never standing planted.

I'd add to this that there's a lot of nuance to doubles that you gather cumulatively from experience (or watching high level).

Using the OP's question, for example, if your partner serves wide, you should hug the alley more, bc it's easier for the returner to go down the line when they're stretched wide.

You should always be moving w/o the ball, too. Another example, is off the return: if you're the net opponent and your partner hits a return at the server's feet (assume they're s&ving), you should be closing the net and pinching the middle bc it's likely the server will pop up the next shot, giving you an easy put away. Sure, they can burn you down your alley, but a half volley over the high part of the net is the tougher shot.

 

[Morch Us]

your partner his a first serve out wide I've heard conflicting information

That is because there is some situational correctness. Let us take an example...

If the serve is good enough for the "level of play", it will be very hard to control an outside ball to outside (meaning returner will have really difficult time making it down the line consistenty), so you DON'T need to move to the alley, and could try to cover more middle. On the other hand a weak slice serve out wide, if the returner reaches to it confortably, would be easy to drive down the line. But still your mindset should be only to cover 60% of the DTL. You actually want them to try DTL away from you and MISS (low percentage shot).

Also there is some situations where you face the opponents who go for DTL a lot.

 

[Morch Us]

There are some I've hit from above the net where the opponent runs it down

Since you are passionate about tennis, I am sure you can at least watch some doubles specific videos, and get a lot of info.

Since you are a singles player, who play singles better, I can possibly suggest a few things.

1. Major reason for your volleys to be run down is because you are hitting it to open court (singles mentality), which is usually the baseline players side. Instead hit aggressive volleys 90% of the time to the net person. You could go in between the net person and the baseline player the rest 10% of the time, but only if it is going away from baseline player. (Defensive volleys goes to baseline player, but that you anyway expect to be hit back).
2. Don't hit to open court or open areas as much as you do in singles. Instead try to focus on hitting the ball straight to the player more often, but with intent. The intents can be different based on the team, but some examples would be, 1. Force the opponent baseline player hit low to high through the range of your netplayer (setup your net player). 2. Hit through the middle to get a "through the middle" ball back.
3. Instead of focusing on the "width" of the shot from baseline, focus on the "depth" control. Meaning, instead of trying to hit the ball wide or to T, keep it more central to the baseline players direction (so that you avoid mistakes and avoid opponent net player), but have intent on depth, length and height of the shot. Meaning, how deep it bounces, how far it is moving through the court after bounce, and what is the height after bounce.
4. Be proactive, instead of reactive at net. Meaning, learn to anticipate based on general trends, and make high percentage moves. For example respect the inside shots, since they could be driven inside out or inside in, but challenge them to hit difficut outside shots inside.
5. You don't seem to have an issue holding your serve. So I skip the serve position and intent differences from singles to doubles.
6. Return intent follow (2) I mentioned above.
7. Try to win with your body and not just with your shots. Meaning don't try to cover the low percentage areas for the opponents, invite them to go for those "highlight shots". But cover the high percentage areas, to discourage your opponent to go high percentage shots.

 

[Morch Us]

I think my problem is in a match situation I guide the volley with just my arm and don't get my legs and whole body into the volley

Basics first. If your volleys are floating, check your racket angle. Keep it simple, 90% of the time, you just need a clean racquet angle, and proper direction intent to redirect a shoulder level volley for winner.

 

[Morch Us]

Same with where to stand in the box when your partner is serving. When I'm playing I stand in more towards the alley, but other people have said you should be further back and more towards the center. A few times I've tried that I've been passed down the alley and my partner got upset I wasn't covering it even though I did feel like I could get more balls overall.

Well... I think the problem may not be your starting position. You are supposed to constantly moving "without the ball".

Meaning, you could start at the middle of your service box, but based on where the serve is bouncing, and the quality of the serve, you could take a step towards the alley or towards the center. You could even take a step back after the serve bounce, if you anticipate a lob on the works. Or step in to hug the net (after serve bounce), if you expect a weak return through middle.

Of course, when you dance around at the net, initially you will make some mistakes and look like a fool. But it won't take too long for you to get a grasp of it, since there are not too many situations.

 

[LuckyR]

I know the basics, but there are some shot situations like when your partner his a first serve out wide I've heard conflicting information. Same with where to stand in the box when your partner is serving. When I'm playing I stand in more towards the alley, but other people have said you should be further back and more towards the center. A few times I've tried that I've been passed down the alley and my partner got upset I wasn't covering it even though I did feel like I could get more balls overall.

Standardly you want to be in the center of possible returns (for your "side" of the court). So when you line up across from the receiver, depth-wise you want to be at second volley position, maybe a step back if you're playing known lobbers or if you have mobility issues. As far as how close to the alley, you want to be able to cover most of the alley within a step and a half which for many is about a step towards the alley from the center of the service box. Naturally the center of possible returns moves laterally when the receiver moves for wide serves, BUT (depending on your competition) some won't try to pass up the line. Or you can move to the alley then as the ball is struck (by someone you know isn't going to go up the alley) move to the center to pick off a shot through the center of the court.