How do you handle short low angles in doubles?

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
Think I asked this before, but couldn't find it in the search.

In my last match I served pretty well, but off my second serve especially my opponents would hit these low angle returns or other shots during the rally and I'd hit the ball up with topspin and the opposing net player would slam my shot down. On the deuce side with my forehand it just felt awkward moving forward at 45 degrees and having that net player there and trying to decide about the alley or rolling it cross court to get destroyed.

With my backhand it was even worse since the net player would move in close to the net and I'd normally slice a low backhand like that, but when I did I had no chance to get it past him.

I'm used to hitting from the baseline and moving along the baseline or up a few steps and then retreating or running straight forward for a short ball I follow into the net. These mid court, low balls moving away from me with a guy at the net kind of threw me off. How can I work on this?
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Well, you know you can't float or hit a high ball back towards the middle. How good is your lob over the net person? Or if DTL is there, can you go DTL? If you have the control, dink the ball back into the server's doubles alley. The server or net person is anticipating a middle reply. If you have an unreliable replies, just hit it hard at the net person. Your response to return to the base line is not correct. You should stay up.
 
For this shot I like to use the continental grip and drive it dtl. It keeps the net person honest and can jam them up allowing you to attack forward. The continental grip approach has good power with precision and can still generate enough spin to keep it from sailing long. I try to go at the net person as much as possible. Going cross court allows them to intercept, whereas going dtl forces them to prove their skill and keeps them planted to open up the cc shots later in the match in bigger moments.
 
These shots are tough and it is hard to get around the net opponent. Ask your partner to move laterally with you and stand right in front of the net player, so that he can defend.
 

Addxyz

Hall of Fame
Lob would be the easy way. If you want to mess with the net guy's head, you can wind up like you're going to hit a slice, then open the face up to slice down the line. There have been times where I'm playing ad side and I get lazy and backhand slice cross court. The opponent net guy will eventually try to poach off that. Once he starts to move, I just open up the face a bit to go down the line. We play mind games with each other.
 

LuckyR

Legend
In the deuce side with my forehand it just felt awkward moving forward at 45 degrees and having that net player there and trying to decide about the alley or rolling it cross court to get destroyed.
Sounds like your opposition is making the error of not having the netman slide over to cover his alley on short, wide shots. That's why your CC attempts are being picked off so easily. Such routine CC rally balls from the baseline are right into the FH poaching zone of a netman in routine (second volley) position. If so, the netman's alley is uncovered, more uncovered the more angular the shot you're moving to hit. A couple of passes and he'll slide over (as he should have initially). At that point the (otherwise) correct shot CC will be available to you.
 

nyta2

Legend
Think I asked this before, but couldn't find it in the search.

In my last match I served pretty well, but off my second serve especially my opponents would hit these low angle returns or other shots during the rally and I'd hit the ball up with topspin and the opposing net player would slam my shot down. On the deuce side with my forehand it just felt awkward moving forward at 45 degrees and having that net player there and trying to decide about the alley or rolling it cross court to get destroyed.

With my backhand it was even worse since the net player would move in close to the net and I'd normally slice a low backhand like that, but when I did I had no chance to get it past him.

I'm used to hitting from the baseline and moving along the baseline or up a few steps and then retreating or running straight forward for a short ball I follow into the net. These mid court, low balls moving away from me with a guy at the net kind of threw me off. How can I work on this?
this kind of shot often happens to me in doubles, when someone is good and chip&charging my kicker that lands in the middle of the box...
accept that it's a good offensive shot that is putting me in an awkward position
take note of where they are splitting in relationship to the net ... if they are properly positioned, you always have some room to hit back a slice dinker to their feet, or ideally to the side of them cc/dtl... then come to net... often is a 50/50 touch game if you get it to bounce before their feet
if they are too close to net, they are susceptible to a lob... (expect them to get it, but congrats you've effectively neutralized them).
if you have time to get under the ball topspin fh/bh, again to their feet (a bit harder to recieve a dipper, and more easy to conceal face/direction)... goal is not to pass... it's to get into the dink game
if i receive ball slightly higher, can even lob...
only if i'm in great balance, and early to the ball, and ideally the ball is net height or higher, do i try to go for an outright pass

in despearation i will just try to drill the net person, and aim for their right hip (righty), and hope you get a pop up
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
If you get to the wide ball early before it has dropped too low, you can be aggressive with it either CC or DTL and make the opponents struggle especially if you have the ability to hit topspin dippers. If you don’t recognize the shot early or are slow to get to the ball where it has dropped low, your options are very limited in terms of power shots and you have to use more finesse - lob, very short crosscourt angle that is almost a drop etc. if you are late to these balls a lot, then you have to serve in a way where they are less likely to hit that return. Some players can do that short, wide return better with their inside-out return while there are others who do it better with their outside cross court shot - so choose your serve accordingly.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Sounds like your opposition is making the error of not having the netman slide over to cover his alley on short, wide shots. That's why your CC attempts are being picked off so easily. Such routine CC rally balls from the baseline are right into the FH poaching zone of a netman in routine (second volley) position. If so, the netman's alley is uncovered, more uncovered the more angular the shot you're moving to hit. A couple of passes and he'll slide over (as he should have initially). At that point the (otherwise) correct shot CC will be available to you.
I don’t understand this post. OP says the net guy is picking off a lot of his CC returns off wide, low shots. You are saying the opponent is making an error by not covering the DTL shot off wide balls.:unsure:

There are no rules in tennis like that - you move in the direction that is going to favor you winning a lot of points. If the opponent never tries DTL or has a weak DTL shot, you can be aggressive poaching to the middle off any ball. If your opponent has a high quality DTL shot, then you cover more wide of course especially off wide shots from your partner. It also depends on the quality of your partner’s serves/shots. If I have a partner whose serve/shot quality is overwhelming a weaker opponent wide, then I can shade more to the middle to poach. If my partner‘s wide shots/serves are low quality and being clobbered DTL very easily, then I have to cover the DTL more aggresively. The situation can even change with the condition of the balls where your partner’s quality goes down on wide shots and your opponent‘s DTL shot goes up in quality when the balls get old. So you could have been more aggressive poaching or shading to the middle with new balls while you have to be less aggressive with old balls. I’ll often play I-formation or stand close to the middle line with new balls when my partner is serving, but have to take a more conservative stance at the net when the balls get old especially in slow conditions like winter or marine layer mist.

Tennis has certain guidelines on how to move at the net based on what is the high-% position to be at, but it depends not only on the direction of shots, but the quality of shots of both your partner and opponent. There are many opponents who can’t hit a good DTL BH to save their life if your partner hits a half-decent ball wide and in those cases, you don’t have to worry about covering the DTL, but you want to shrink the court by covering the middle. You stand and move in the direction which is winning you a lot of points - if you are losing a lot of points doing something, you make an adjustment.
 

ey039524

Hall of Fame
Answering from the net opponent's perspective, if you are hitting a short, low ball, your only option is to hit up on it, which means I'm ready to pinch the middle and take the volley. If you know how aggressive the net player is, then you can decide to go to their alley (behind them) or cross court. It becomes a guessing game. Or just lob, and turn your shot into offense by coming in after.
 

LuckyR

Legend
I don’t understand this post. OP says the net guy is picking off a lot of his CC returns off wide, low shots. You are saying the opponent is making an error by not covering the DTL shot off wide balls.:unsure:
You're over-amping on my use of the word "error". Obviously I'm not implying that the opponents should stop doing what they're doing, since the OP is making the "error" of not hitting into the uncovered alley, instead using his routine CC rally angle (which works from the baseline) from a shorter, wider position.

However my broader point on the netman is correct. Among my competition, who can hit shots to and from any position on the court (of greater or lesser quality), it is an "error" to not play in the center of possible returns for your portion of the court. Obviously if one's experience is that their competition lacks the ability to hit, say DTL, as in your example, then by all means play in the "center" of your opponent's particular possible returns, that is feel free to leave portions of the court uncovered that they can't/won't hit into.
 
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Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Couple of questions:

  1. Are you covering those returns with your starting position when serving and also S&V/coming to the net ASAP?
  2. Have you tried using your first serve twice, instead of a weaker second one? Or use placement, kick, slice, to take that return away.
  3. Practice even in singles to move diagonally at 45 dg(the famous Spanish "X"). Btw, I also need to do that....
  4. Rip some balls at the net guy.
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
Couple of questions:

  1. Are you covering those returns with your starting position when serving and also S&V/coming to the net ASAP?
  2. Have you tried using your first serve twice, instead of a weaker second one? Or use placement, kick, slice, to take that return away.
  3. Practice even in singles to move diagonally at 45 dg(the famous Spanish "X"). Btw, I also need to do that....
  4. Rip some balls at the net guy.
1. I've been practicing my serve, but not serve + 1, which may be the issue. Lately I've been playing mainly singles and was serving from closer to where I'd serve for singles so they had more room to move me. I'm also used to handling deep returns or moving more forward, but not the 45 degrees required for these short balls. Running up and having to deal with the net player really messed with my head for some reason.

Of course I thought about S&V since so many returns were coming short and I wasn't moving up for them, but I never practice it and felt a bit funny trying it in a match. That's something I want to work on practicing more.

2. After double faulting a ton years ago I still have this intense fear of double faulting games away so have been trying to get more serves in play vs. going for a 1st serve on my 2nd. I did mix in a slice down the T on the ad side for a 2nd since the returner was way over on the BH side. I'm trying to hit my kick better and place it better, but it's easier said than done in a match.

3. That's a good idea. In practice I pretty much never do that. I move along the baseline and if I get a short ball forward I just move in and hit it up higher so I have time to get back to the BL when I'm rallying. Moving forward to a ball like that and dealing with 2 opponents is much different.

4. I feel a bit funny doing that. It's ok in a USTA league match?
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
low angle returns
1. You could place the serve more to the T to make it harder to find nasty angles.
2. You could place your partner at the same side as you (australian formation), and force your opponent to hit deep down the line if that is more confortable for you as a team (works better on adside serves, since you get a forehand).
3. You could do serve and charge (not necessarily volley) to encourage deeper returns.
4. On deuce side short angles, usually you could find high backhand of the net player (hard to do high backhand overheads).
 
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