How do you rate the ATP 500 events

Bukmeikara

Bukmeikara

Legend
Personaly I believe that Dubai, Basel, Beijing and to some degree Barcelona are very close to a Master 1000 quality(from this year probably Quenns too). For example Dubai since 2003 has been won just by a former/current/future number one players Federer(6), Djokovic(4), Nadal and Roddick. Almost always you have at least 5 top 10 guys in the draw with a very little number of suprises(only Feliciano Lopez in the recent years If I remember correct). Basel and Beijing are almost the same but you can see that the players are tired in the end of the season.

My point is that Federer and Djokovic with 10+ titles in those kind of events should have a bit more weight in the all time great list than people usually give them.
 
Bukmeikara said:
My point is that Federer and Djokovic with 10+ titles in those kind of events should have a bit more weight in the all time great list than people usually give them.
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Couldn't agree more with this part and I've said the same thing before. Ultimately not all 500 tournaments are equal and unless you're a Nadal fan, there's no way you're gonna say that the competition at a HC event is weaker or on the same level as a clay court one.
Dubai alone >>> Rio and Barcelona any day of the week.
 
Similarly some of the ATP 250's are more than ATP 500.

Brisbane, Queens and Halle are worth more any ATP 500 other than Dubai.
 
tennisaddict said:
Dubai is on par with Monte Carlo and Shanghai.
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Eh, MC in the second oldest Masters series event (the oldest being Canada) and I believe also the second oldest clay court tournament. With RG being the most prestigious, only Rome comes close to MC as far as clay events go.

Overall MC is probably top 3 in the most prestigious Masters Series tournaments.
 
No Way

vanioMan said:
Eh, MC in the second oldest Masters series event (the oldest being Canada) and I believe also the second oldest clay court tournament. With RG being the most prestigious, only Rome comes close to MC as far as clay events go.

Overall MC is probably top 3 in the most prestigious MS events.
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MC is not a mandatory tournament anymore, unlike other 8 MS. Since 2009, MC is considered an option for the player...they can either play this event or choose any of the ATP500 to complete the fully year schedule(base by the ATP ranking system). MC is more like an ATP500, because players have chose to skip this clay event to play at an ATP500 that offer hard court.
 
vanioMan said:
Eh, MC in the second oldest Masters series event (the oldest being Canada) and I believe also the second oldest clay court tournament. With RG being the most prestigious, only Rome comes close to MC as far as clay events go.

Overall MC is probably top 3 in the most prestigious Masters Series tournaments.
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Oldest does not mean prestigious. It is very difficult for me to put this tournament even on par with Dubai.
 
I rate all titles pretty highly depending on the draw. Beating quality players is good no matter the venue IMO. Places like Dubai generally have much better fields than other events of that size - but still not masters quality.
 
Big variance in 500 tourneys. But an example of a good one is this years Rotterdam, to me it seems a great balance of players. Not quite as tough as a masters (no djo fed or nadal) but still a very tough field ( murray berd stan raonic). I believe it has 11 of the top 20 in the field.
 
There are too many clay tournaments.
There are three clay MS tournaments, it feels like one too many really.

Who even cares about Madrid?
It has no history, no crowds, and no atmosphere.

Rio is a 500?
That tourney is a 250 any day of the week IMO.

Overall, Halle, Basel are the best 500s.
In recent years, they have been mostly won by the best and most talented tennis players available.

A true GOAT should have 5+ titles at each of Wimbledon, USO, Cincy, Halle, Basel, and the WTF.
 
Also have Halle and Queens actually done anything to make themselves a 500? Facilities better? More money? Or did they decide just to bump them up?
 
Halle and Basel? hehe
Please include Barcelona and Rio then.

Hmmm Murray, Nadal, Ferrer, Nishikori usually don't play Dubai, do they?
 
TMF said:
MC is not a mandatory tournament anymore, unlike other 8 MS.
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Big deal. Nothing was compulsory before 2000.

And besides, if you do skip Monte Carlo, you have to play an extra ATP 500 event than if you had decided to play Monte Carlo. So, in a way, Monte Carlo is still compulsory in the sense that you either play it, or play an extra mandatory ATP 500 event.
 
Backspin1183 said:
Halle and Basel? hehe
Please include Barcelona and Rio then.

Hmmm Murray, Nadal, Ferrer, Nishikori usually don't play Dubai, do they?
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Nadal and Murray played Dubai 4 teams each(Murray is in the list for the 2015 too), Ferrer skips it for obvious reasons and Nishikori was missing really in the last 2-3 seasons before that he didnt had the ranking. Dubai is really top class tournament but now with Accapulco around a decent amount of top20 players preffer to avoid Novak and Roger. Its kind of stupid to have two similar tournaments from this rank at the same time.
 
Firstservingman said:
There are too many clay tournaments.
There are three clay MS tournaments, it feels like one too many really.
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There are far too many hardcourt tournaments, actually. It dominates from late July to early April the following year, for goodness sake. And hardcourt is not one of the original surfaces of tennis, like clay and grass, but more recent in origin.

There should be more clay, and certainly more grass and more carpet.
 
Mustard said:
There are far too many hardcourt tournaments, actually. It dominates from late July to early April the following year, for goodness sake. And hardcourt is not one of the original surfaces of tennis, like clay and grass, but more recent in origin.

There should be more clay, and certainly more grass and more carpet.
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How did I know you were gonna say this Mustard? :lol:


:wink:
 
vanioMan said:
It's very difficult for me to point out a more prestigious Masters than MC besides Rome, Canada and maybe IW/Cinci.
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Yeah, MC is definitely one of the most prestigious Masters. I'd say Cincy(!), Rome, Canada, IW, Shanghai and Miami are even more prestigious though. And probably Madrid and Paris too. But after those, MC is definitely right there at the top.
 
irishnadalfan1983 said:
Also have Halle and Queens actually done anything to make themselves a 500? Facilities better? More money? Or did they decide just to bump them up?
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I don't know about prize money or facilities, but it's warranted purely on quality of the draw. They'd be my 2 favourite 500 tourneys.
 
Mustard said:
There are far too many hardcourt tournaments, actually. It dominates from late July to early April the following year, for goodness sake. And hardcourt is not one of the original surfaces of tennis, like clay and grass, but more recent in origin.

There should be more clay, and certainly more grass and more carpet.
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No, it should be less HC and more indoor and grass. Clay stays the same. Clay is about third of the season, which is enough.

The best would be 25% grass, 25% clay, 25% HC, 25% indoor.

It would also be cool to have indoor grass and clay. We should have indoor slam.
 
jg153040 said:
No, it should be less HC and more indoor and grass. Clay stays the same. Clay is about third of the season, which is enough.

The best would be 25% grass, 25% clay, 25% HC, 25% indoor.

It would also be cool to have indoor grass and clay. We should have indoor slam.
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We have enough clay! Not sure about indoor but definitely should have more grass - should be at least 1 1,000 on grass pre Wimby. There is no real run up to Wimby.
 
stringertom said:
Hamburg should never have been downgraded...thank you mr tiriac!
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Quite sad that one of the oldest tournaments got downgraded just like that. It's really all about the money these days.

Basically the majority of the strong 250's and 500's that attract MS1000-like draws have tons of money to pay for appearance fees of the top players.
 
Basel has the best surface (although I liked the look of the red courts better, the speed is awesome now).

None are even close to the prestige masters tournaments have.
 
Bukmeikara said:
My point is that Federer and Djokovic with 10+ titles in those kind of events should have a bit more weight in the all time great list than people usually give them.
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Other than counting Grand Slams and Masters, it's better to compare players by head-to-head results. I mean, if Federer beats Wawrinka, it's almost the same thing if it's at Roland Garros quarters, Barcelona semis or Acapulco final.
 
NaBUru38 said:
Meanwhile, I believe that there are too many players and fans who dislike clay.
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Not at all. If anything people here would like more grass and less hard courts. Very few dislike clay that much, that they would like to see CC masters being degraded.
 
jg153040 said:
No, it should be less HC and more indoor and grass. Clay stays the same. Clay is about third of the season, which is enough.

The best would be 25% grass, 25% clay, 25% HC, 25% indoor.

It would also be cool to have indoor grass and clay. We should have indoor slam.
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Definitely think there should be more grass, and less hard-courts. I've always wanted this sort of schedule:

Beginning of year opens up with hard-court, main tournaments are the Australian Open, and the 2 Masters, Indian Wells and Miami. The main 500 tournaments would be Dubai and the Mexican Open, which would precede the 2 Masters.

Next, the clay season kicks off. You have two 500 tournaments, Rio and Barcelona, and than the 3 clay tournaments, with Roland Garros ending it.

For Grass season, upgrade either Halle or Queens to a Masters. Personally, I would upgrade Halle, because London already has Wimbledon and at the moment, the Year-End Championships. I know Queens has the history, but it can be known as the most prestigious 500. I'd also change the German Open to a grass tournament, while adding another week of rest between the French and Wimbledon. This way you can make the grass Masters actually have some value, not just a tournament that many guys will be fatigued for anyway. So, after Roland Garros, a week off, than the next week would have two 500 tournaments: Queens and German Open, and than Halle as a 1000 the following week. This would give Germany a nice couple of weeks of action, the German swing.

The North American swing would largely stay the same, with the Rogers Cup, than Washington as the 500, followed by Cincinnati, and than the US Open.

The last part of the season, I would make it mostly indoor. It's kind of hard to organize this part of the schedule fairly. I'd get rid of the Paris Masters (not as much history as the others, and it already hosts the French). Personally, I'd start off the Asian swing, right away, with China and Japan as outdoor hard 500's, but make the Shanghai Masters an indoor. Than, end the season with Basel, Valencia, and Rotterdam 500 level tournaments, all indoors, and than of course the WTF's, the most prestigious of the indoors. Always hard to make tennis seasons more "fair", as some surfaces will always lose more while others will gain more.
 
jelle v said:
Rotterdam should be ATP 1000... :mrgreen:

No bias here... :twisted:
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:) Rotterdam does have a pretty good draw for a 500 though. I actually think Acapulco has set themselves up nicely as an important 500 now that they have went hard court right before Indian Wells and Miami. Very smart move.
 
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