How does Murray stack up against the following players on clay?

[InjuredNo?]

Since people think it's such an absurd notion to think Nadal dominated a weak clay era, where Federer was the next best clay court player until Djokovic emerged as a serious threat to him in 2011, let's look at a guy with arguably the 4th best clay court results during Nadal's era.

None other than the Scot.

Who is better on clay?

Murray vs. Muster

Murray vs. Courier

Murray vs. Bruguera

Murray vs. Agassi

Murray vs. Kuerten

Murray vs. Costa

Murray vs. Kafelnikov

Murray vs. Medvedev

Murray vs. Chang

Murray vs. Moya

Murray vs. Corretja

Murray vs. Ferrero

Murray vs. Berastegui

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Ferrero and Moya > Murray on clay..

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Chang, Agassi, Kuerten and Courier are/were better too.

 

[90's Clay]

He doesn't stack up well at ALL vs. ANY of them

Well maybe Berastegui

 

[jm1980]

Ferrero and Moya > Murray on clay..

Two very overrated clay courters right here. Just because they could only play on clay, it doesn't they were actually good at it

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Two very overrated clay courters right here. Just because they could only play on clay, it doesn't they were actually good at it

Moya won a Masters 1000 on hardcourt and made an Australian Open final. Give me a break, he could play serious game everywhere apart from maybe grass.

Ferrero has had equally good results. He's even beaten Federer on hardcourt if I remember correctly.

Still, both are far greater than Murray on clay. Moya was still sweeping up Masters series titles on clay in 2004 and he's beaten Nadal on clay also. No excuses.

I'm sure Murray would win most of their matches on clay.

 

[jm1980]

Still, both are far greater than Murray on clay. Moya was still sweeping up Masters series titles on clay in 2004 and he's beaten Nadal on clay also. No excuses.

I'm sure prime for prime Murray would win most of their matches on clay (vs Ferrero and Moya)

 

[90's Clay]

Ughh... One little win over a slumping Nadal losing to mugs on clay this year and all of a sudden Murray is some great clay court player.

Lets get real for a change. Murray probably won't go beyond the 4th round at the French this year. Hes decent on clay but this nonsense that hes gonna win the French or make some waves this is pretty ridiculous

 

[Epic]

I'm sure prime for prime Murray would win most of their matches on clay (vs Ferrero and Moya)

Stats and facts say Ferrero and Moya are greater claycourters than Murray. What you're saying is completely baseless. But it's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

 

[Mainad]

All those names on the list were either French Open winners or French Open finalists and I think most of them had at least 1 clay Masters title as well.

So until Murray makes at least 1 French Open final, they are all still ahead of him on clay.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

I'm sure prime for prime Murray would win most of their matches on clay (vs Ferrero and Moya)

Your certainties are never a definite, especially when it comes to evaluating players..

Moya and Ferrero won multiple Masters 1000 titles on clay and also won Roland Garros at least once. But Murray's still better than them? Is this you trying to pull the weak, excuse ridden "weak era" crap again?

Nothing but excuses.

 

[jm1980]

Lets get real for a change. Murray probably won't go beyond the 4th round at the French this year. Hes decent on clay but this nonsense that hes gonna win the French or make some waves this is pretty ridiculous

The last time he lost before the second week was in 2010. He has two QFs and two SF appearances, but all of a sudden he won't make it past the 4th round!? :lol:

 

[Epic]

Ughh... One little win over a slumping Nadal losing to mugs on clay this year and all of a sudden Murray is some great clay court player.

It's still a far more impressive win than Sampras's over Boris Becker in the Rome final, don't you think?

Lets get real for a change. Murray probably won't go beyond the 4th round at the French.

Well, Sampras lost in the 2nd round at the same age, so...

 

[Epic]

All those names on the list were either French Open winners or French Open finalists and I think most of them had at least 1 clay Masters title as well.

So until Murray makes at least 1 French Open final, they are all still ahead of him on clay.

Very fair and reasonable post from someone who is a Murray fan

 

[Mainad]

Very fair and reasonable post from someone who is a Murray fan

As a Murray fan I am always fair and reasonable!

 

[Deleted member 307496]

The last time he lost before the second week was in 2010. He has two QFs and two SF appearances, but all of a sudden he won't make it past the 4th round!? :lol:

He got routined by Ferrer at the French, who nearly lost out to Hewitt on clay with a metal busted hip.

See, two can play this game.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Ughh... One little win over a slumping Nadal losing to mugs on clay this year and all of a sudden Murray is some great clay court player.

Lets get real for a change. Murray probably won't go beyond the 4th round at the French this year. Hes decent on clay but this nonsense that hes gonna win the French or make some waves this is pretty ridiculous

What makes you think Murray won't go beyond the 4th round at RG?

 

[90's Clay]

The last time he lost before the second week was in 2010. He has two QFs and two SF appearances, but all of a sudden he won't make it past the 4th round!? :lol:

People are in here have him pegged to possibly win the French after beating a slumping Nadal. ROFLMAO.

Murray is also historically a HEADCASE at the slam level.. People are putting way too much stock into one win at Madrid

 

[jm1980]

Your certainties are never a definite, especially when it comes to evaluating players..

Moya and Ferrero won multiple Masters 1000 titles on clay and also won Roland Garros at least once. But Murray's still better than them? Is this you trying to pull the weak, excuse ridden "weak era" crap again?

Nothing but excuses.

I love how you say "won Roland Garros at least once" (when they won it exactly once) to inflate their achievements :lol:

Pit them against peak Nadal and let's see how many of these Masters and RG titles they win :twisted:

 

[90's Clay]

What makes you think Murray won't go beyond the 4th round at RG?

Its Murray and its a slam. If something isn't going his way (especially on clay) we all know how quickly he can self destruct

 

[Deleted member 307496]

As a Murray fan I am always fair and reasonable!

When it comes to Murray I am more than reasonable..

I get that he can play well on clay (thus disproving the old age myth that he "sucked" on clay) but he isn't better than other clay specialists.

He'd beat Moya and Ferrero black and blue prime for prime across hardcourt and grass, but he won't do that on clay.

 

[Epic]

Pit them against peak Nadal and let's see how many of these Masters and RG titles they win :twisted:

Can people stop with these excuses? Moya and Ferrero were good enough to beat the best players in the world and win the French Open. Murray, so far, hasn't been good enough to even reach a final. They're greater. It's really that simple.

 

[jm1980]

He got routined by Ferrer at the French, who nearly lost out to Hewitt on clay with a metal busted hip.

See, two can play this game.

LOLwut? Hewitt didn't have his first hip operation until August 2008, after their FO match.

And sometimes you have to survive scares against lesser opponents. The important thing is Ferrer won.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Its Murray and its a slam. If something isn't going his way (especially on clay) we all know how quickly he can self destruct

Which means he'll probably get beyond the 4th round given how consistent he's been at the majors in recent years. In fact I can't even recall the last time he lost in the first week of a slam.

 

[Mainad]

People are in here have him pegged to possibly win the French after beating a slumping Nadal. ROFLMAO.

Murray is also historically a HEADCASE at the slam level.. People are putting way too much stock into one win at Madrid

Maybe they are, but that's still no excuse to go to the other extreme though, is it? Murray has been making at least the quarter-finals of ALL the Slams for the last 5 years including RG and, whilst winning Madrid is certainly not everything it is at least something and so doesn't exactly warrant your dismissive tone towards him does it?

 

[Deleted member 307496]

I love how you say "won Roland Garros at least once" (when they won it exactly once) to inflate their achievements :lol:

Pit them against peak Nadal and let's see how many of these Masters and RG titles they win :twisted:

Murray doesn't just lose out to Nadal.

Let's look at how many people have beaten Murray at Roland Garros since 2010 and if they've won it even "once".


2010: Lost against clay king Berdych in the R16.
2011: OK, he lost to Nadal but he was pretty much crushed.
2012: Lost to Ferrer (who is worse than Moya and Ferrero by the way).
2013: Skipped.
2014: Lost once again to Nadal in a one sided affair (Ferrer put up more of a fight than Murray).

Saying Murray is greater on clay than Moya and Ferrero is like saying Sampras is greater at the French Open than Chang.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

LOLwut? Hewitt didn't have his first hip operation until August 2008, after their FO match.

And sometimes you have to survive scares against lesser opponents. The important thing is Ferrer won.

His hip was still busted, metal or not.

A scare against Hewitt, who is, as you put it "inept" on clay means he just isn't that great, doesn't it? And this guy routined Murray.

 

[jm1980]

Murray doesn't just lose out to Nadal.

Let's look at how many people have beaten Murray at Roland Garros since 2010 and if they've won it even "once".


2010: Lost against clay king Berdych in the R16.
2011: OK, he lost to Nadal but he was pretty much crushed.
2012: Lost to Ferrer (who is worse than Moya and Ferrero by the way).
2013: Skipped.
2014: Lost once again to Nadal in a one sided affair (Ferrer put up more of a fight than Murray).

Saying Murray is greater on clay than Moya and Ferrero is like saying Sampras is greater at the French Open than Chang.

I'm not asking you about Murray.

How many clay titles do you think Moya and Ferrero would have won if they were in Murray's place?

And aren't you the one who loves to argue how Roddick and Hewitt would have hauled in tons of slams if it weren't for Fed?

 

[Mainad]

Which means he'll probably get beyond the 4th round given how consistent he's been at the majors in recent years. In fact I can't even recall the last time he lost in the first week of a slam.

That was 2008 Australian Open. He lost in the 1st round to eventual finalist Tsonga in a tough 4 setter (during which he actually bagelled Tsonga in the 3rd set).

 

[Deleted member 307496]

I'm not asking you about Murray.

How many clay titles do you think Moya and Ferrero would have won if they were in Murray's place?

And aren't you the one who loves to argue how Roddick and Hewitt would have hauled in tons of slams if it weren't for Fed?

As many if not more than Ferrer..

They wouldn't have hauled in slams.. I don't go to the same extremes you do, but they'd have won a couple more.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Moya and Ferrero may be greater players on clay than Murray in terms of achievements but if we're discussing peak for peak levels of play, you wouldn't exactly bet your house on them beating him every time would you? Murray would give as good as he'd get imo.

 

[Epic]

How many clay titles do you think Moya and Ferrero would have won if they were in Murray's place?
[/IMG]

It doesn't matter. They were good enough to beat the best players of their era to win the French Open. Murray hasn't been good enough to even reach a French Open final. This is an undeniable fact.

 

[Epic]

Moya and Ferrero may be greater players on clay than Murray in terms of achievements but if we're discussing peak for peak levels of play, you wouldn't exactly bet your house on them beating him every time would you? Murray would give as good as he'd get imo.

That's like saying Roddick would give Djokovic as good as he'd get, peak for peak. Actually, worse, because Roddick in fact did give more than he took to Djokovic. While Murray never even played Moya and Ferrero on clay.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Moya and Ferrero may be greater players on clay than Murray in terms of achievements but if we're discussing peak for peak levels of play, you wouldn't exactly bet your house on them beating him every time would you? Murray would give as good as he'd get imo.

You're talking clay right?

I'd pick Moya and Ferrero 8 out of 10 times.

 

[Djokovic2011]

That's like saying Roddick would give Djokovic as good as he'd get, peak for peak. Actually, worse, because Roddick in fact did give more than he took to Djokovic. While Murray never even played Moya and Ferrero on clay.

Not a big AM fan I take it?

 

[Mainad]

Saying Murray is greater on clay than Moya and Ferrero is like saying Sampras is greater at the French Open than Chang.

Murray is certainly not greater on clay than Moya or Ferrero. How can he be when they are both RG champions? But that doesn't mean Murray is a complete mug at RG or any of the other big clay events either as you seem to be implying. He is twice a semi-finalist at RG, twice a semi-finalist at MC and has made the semis of Rome and Madrid including winning the title at the latter.
In recent years, he has usually only been stopped by Nadal or Djokovic. Outside of the Big 3, he now probably has a better clay record than any other player on tour with the possible exception of Ferrer.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Murray is certainly not greater on clay than Moya or Ferrero. How can he be when they are both RG champions? But that doesn't mean Murray is a complete mug at RG or any of the other big clay events either as you seem to be implying. He is twice a semi-finalist at RG, twice a semi-finalist at MC and has made the semis of Rome and Madrid including winning the title at the latter.
In recent years, he has usually only been stopped by Nadal or Djokovic. Outside of the Big 3, he now probably has a better clay record than any other player on tour with the possible exception of Ferrer.

Did I say Murray was bad on clay, or did I even say in an earlier post Murray is good across all surfaces?

He is not a mug anywhere.

Moya and Ferrero could play well on hardcourt also and it's feasible to say they'd have beaten him at least once or twice.

 

[Epic]

Not a big AM fan I take it?

Murray is actually my favorite player. I'm just objective.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Murray is actually my favorite player. I'm just objective.

Same here, but he's more well renowned for his prowess on hardcourt and grass. Clay is not second nature to Murray, but he's still had a lot of success on the surface anyway.

 

[Mainad]

Did I say Murray was bad on clay, or did I even say in an earlier post Murray is good across all surfaces?

You seemed to be making fun of Murray's record at RG just to make a point to another poster. Your tone seemed patronising and dismissive. There is never any need to do that just to make a point about his clay credentials versus Moya or Ferrero.

He is not a mug anywhere.

Moya and Ferrero could play well on hardcourt also and it's feasible to say they'd have beaten him at least once or twice.

Agreed.

 

[jm1980]

You seemed to be making fun of Murray's record at RG just to make a point to another poster. Your tone seemed patronising and dismissive.

Sabratha in a nutshell

 

[killerboi2]

So Murray wins a masters event on clay and is suddenly being compared to a bunch of french open champions and average players that were clay court specialists? Lmao.

Anyhow on a good day, I think would be good enough to score some wins against some of the players mentioned. Sampras wasn't a great clay player, yet he still beat some big names on the surface.