That guy has a full western forehand grip and became the only one to surpass Rafa in the amount of speed he can generate with his FH. Yet it appears he's hitting the ball much flatter and quicker... How can one generate more topspin than Rafa and at the same time, hit it flatter and with more power? That' so hard to do with a full western FH grip.
How does Sock hit his forehand?
- Thread starter Standaa
- Start date
vex
Legend
It's not so much that he hits flatter. It's more he whips his forearm/wrist as hard as he possibly can on every shot. Even Rafa doesn't snap his wrist like Sock does. That's why, despite hitting more RPM, Sock also has a ton more UFEs off the FH. He (usually) also lowers his net clearance much lower than Rafa - the "flat" appearing part of his shot. In reality his shot is the opposite of flat. It's more loopy than anyone - it's just that his loop stays low and he tries to add more plow thru. He hits with way less margin than Rafa despite the higher RPMs
TLDR: don't hit like Sock, there's a reason only he does it and it has arguably held him back. Taented guy with obviously a great eye for the ball to execute this shot but had he put that talent into a more traditional technique he'd probably be better
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Sock just broke into the top 10. Fh is a freaking weapon. Sorry old folks. Things change.
NuBas
Legend
Not really. The full western is kind of like holding a fist towards the ball or doing an uppercut, not really but you get idea. So there is a lot of 'punching' power right there and lots of spin comes from the extremely closed racquet face and pronation of arm. Plus with the bent elbow your arm is closer to your body meaning you can get more body into the shot.
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
Modern tennis is dominated by straight arm forehands and eastern and SW grips.
Sock isn't the future just because people want him to be, or because tennis parent recognize extreme grippery from junior tournaments where such crutches hold up far better than they will against men.
He's the fringe, and more a relic of 10-15 years ago than a look forward.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
His fh is not like it was 15 years ago. And his fh has a lot of similarities to kyrgios as well. SW grips much more than eastern all over the tour . Who other than Federer is eastern?
If you cannot see the difference in how Sock generates his pace and spin you are refusing to see the different way he is doing it. Also most juniors hit with a semi western grip. But a lot of them are hitting with similar flow as Sock and Kyrgios.
I'm just lol at you thinking eastern grips dominate men's atp tennis. I would imagine sw is the norm.
Djokovic has a western grip. Holds up pretty well. Nishikori is probably western as well.
There is a change in stroke production happening and as much as you like to think not the game always changes. The younger kids coming up do not hit like the previous years. They are not taught to do it. It evolves based on need. It happens because they adapt based on the competitive environment. the old guys playing doubles at snails pace cannot see it because they don't need to.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
"That guy has a full western forehand grip and became the only one to surpass Rafa in the amount of speed he can generate with his FH."
I think Gonzalez, Soderling, Blake, Del Potro, Tsonga and Kyrgios, among others, might dispute that premise. Also, have you noticed that Sock doesn't handle pace from opponents very well with his forehand.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Delete duplicate.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
You don't know the history of stroke production. Have you ever heard of Marc Rosset?
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
It's not the same. May look similar but sock does something different. So does Kyrgios. Superficial similarities does not make it the same. Sock has the same basis as all the current pros. But there is a nuance there you guys miss. Because you don't want to see it.
Topspin Shot
Legend
What's the nuance? I'm curious because I have a western grip and the Sock takeback feels natural to me. But my forehand doesn't penetrate well which is what you'd expect for someone with that grip and swing. But Sock's penetrates. Why?
Topspin Shot
Legend
Delete double post.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
He has the high elbow, racket tip Pointing forward, that's been done already. But he borders on pointing forward and down. But he has a bent elbow and he uses the flip much more aggressively than say Federer. His flip and contact all happen really close together to my eyes relative to his hand. The racket tip travels but everything else is faster. Probably also why he misses more than Djokovic. It's not as smooth.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
At 2017 Indian Wells I was able to watch almost all the top pros play.
Jack Sock's FH was the most devastating single stroke I saw. It completely destroyed Dimitrov 1hbh and was noticeably heavier than Fed's and Nadal's FH.
Other impressive things I saw: Krygios' easy power generation, Fed's pinpoint accuracy and fluidity, Nishikori 2hbh.
Jack Sock's FH was the most devastating single stroke I saw. It completely destroyed Dimitrov 1hbh and was noticeably heavier than Fed's and Nadal's FH.
Other impressive things I saw: Krygios' easy power generation, Fed's pinpoint accuracy and fluidity, Nishikori 2hbh.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
All a bunch of freaks!!!!
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Sock's forehand is a slightly more extreme version of Rosset's enabled by a bigger racquet head and slower, higher bouncing surfaces. Otherwise, it's the same technique. In any event, Federer and Nadal have better forehands, in my view.
PS: Federer has the biggest forehand "flip," I've ever seen.
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D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
I'm a fed fan. Yeah. Love the Federer fh. It's art. Nadal fh is ugly compared to fed. And sock fh is ugly compared to Nadal. Ha ha.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Eastern grips I don't think to many pro players are using eastern grips any longer.
There is a lot to like in Sock's FH. To me, the distinguishing feature is the position he gets his elbow in, see pic above. That forces max external shoulder rotation, setting up an explosive SSC.
Where he differs from older gen players is he generates big topspin with an extremely compact motion.
Now the quibble I have with some of you is I don't think his FH penetrates that well. Actually it sits up. Delpo's Fh penetrates. Sock is able to get away with that because he hits with such insane pace and spin, that it is still difficult to tee off on it. He also can generate sick angles.
Where he differs from older gen players is he generates big topspin with an extremely compact motion.
Now the quibble I have with some of you is I don't think his FH penetrates that well. Actually it sits up. Delpo's Fh penetrates. Sock is able to get away with that because he hits with such insane pace and spin, that it is still difficult to tee off on it. He also can generate sick angles.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
He learnt the POMO (post-modern) forehand off a poster here. Forget his name.
Migelowsky
Semi-Pro
There is nothing new under the sun. You can find players in the 1920's hitting open stance with western grips.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Fortunately theres a bit more under the shade now mens shorts have gotten longer
There is nothing new under the sun. You can find players in the 1920's hitting open stance with western grips.
MotoboXer
Professional
Just lOOk at that elbow jabbed in his rib-cage to hit a REAL FH, thats THE MAN.
There is nothing new under the sun. You can find players in the 1920's hitting open stance with western grips.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Jim was a big hitter and used more topspin and power than most players in his day.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
This last year there I got to meet him in passing when he was going to practice and then be right behind him on court. It is something to behold. I have a short clip I had posted on Instagram of it.
See if this works.
https://scontent-lax3-2.cdninstagra...40_1757203984609459_6035665361511120896_n.mp4
I have a good hour of footage somewhere.
That said, he can be a very streaky player with the FH. Literally hit or miss, and I think as others mention it is because there is a lot going on to make it happen. It takes him a lot to time it, so when it is off it takes a bit to get back on. But when it is on...it is sooo on.
Also, I saw something above about it sitting up with the spin, but from what I saw he rarely hit with a lot of margin on the net and it wasn't coming up often.
WildVolley
Legend
Sock's elbow usually isn't against his side as he hits. A single photo doesn't tell the whole story because you don't know if a player was jammed.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Sock’s forehand can’t compare to that of a big hitting 3.5. Those guys hit bigger than anyone I’ve ever seen! Well, I personally haven’t seen these big hitting 3.5s but @TimeToPlaySets says he has and I believe him!
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
It's funny how dumb you are.Sock’s forehand can’t compare to that of a big hitting 3.5. Those guys hit bigger than anyone I’ve ever seen! Well, I personally haven’t seen these big hitting 3.5s but @TimeToPlaySets says he has and I believe him!
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I'm glad Sock is making waves with his forehand.
Now people will look at Rafa's forehand and go 'wow, that's a pretty bog-standard, conservative SW forehand', rather than the usual 'omg, don't copy him, his technique is 100% wrong, and if you copy him, your wrist will explode unless you have huge biceps and take PEDs'.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Gave fed a run for his money here.
A well struck sock forehand to fed's backhand is almost a guaranteed point. Socks forehand seems to be almost a mishmash of the delpo forehand and nadal forehand. Lots of power, with lots of spin. Its a thing of beauty. probably one of the key reasons he's done so well.
The thing is, fed blocks his ROS so well and also serves so well with so many patterns of play ingrained. If serve / serve return is so important (which it is) he's able to nullify (enough, anyway) sock getting into those rallies that destroy him (socks FH to feds BH).
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
@SinjinCooper did not say that Eastern grips dominate; he said "Eastern and SW".
Hey, who are you calling old?
I don't think I've lost to anyone simply because they had a SW or W FH vs my Eastern. If I lost, it was because they were better overall. The young ex-collegiates? Of course they kick my butt. And they would do so regardless of what grip they used on their FH.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
@SinjinCooper did not actually write that Eastern grips dominate; he wrote "Eastern and SW".
Hey, who are you calling old?
I don't think I've lost to anyone simply because they had a SW or W FH vs my Eastern. If I lost, it was because they were better overall. The young ex-collegiates? Of course they kick my butt. And they would do so regardless of what grip they used on their FH.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
He is still wrong. Semi western and western fh grips dominate the ATP.@SinjinCooper did not say that Eastern grips dominate; he said "Eastern and SW".
Hey, who are you calling old?
I don't think I've lost to anyone simply because they had a SW or W FH vs my Eastern. If I lost, it was because they were better overall. The young ex-collegiates? Of course they kick my butt. And they would do so regardless of what grip they used on their FH.
How many eastern players. ? And the eastern players dominate the Atp?
Federer and Sock forehand are the same if you view from the racquet perspective.
So which one will not hurt you?
Sock is on bevel 4 not 5. That means it's a semi western grip
watungga
Professional
Sock is on bevel 4 not 5. That means it's a semi western grip
Both images highlight racquet orientation before its impending forward whiplash. So how would you like to hold the racquet like the racquet in the picture?
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Probably someone like Gasquet or Fish (until recently), but they are hardly players that most people are going to want to emulate for various reasons.
Technically an eastern grip IS dominating tennis--it's just that it's just one person doing the dominating with that specific grip, and that person is Federer (together with Rafa of course, who uses a standard SW). But yes, in this context, SW is the most common grip. To think otherwise is delusional.
Besides, Federer uses an extreme eastern grip anyway and not a flat eastern grip, so you could argue that he's at least 1/2 SW, which leaves nobody in the top ranks with a vanilla eastern grip.
I think both use extreme SW grips, not full W grips, but I guess that's besides the point.
Yep, and it's tiring to see older people both on and off these boards insist that new or improving younger players stick to conservative grips just because they themselves don't use one or feel the need to use one.
BUT there is some truth in that sort of advice, because the pro game and the amateur game are very very different. Unless you're competing at the 5.0+ levels, traditional swings and grips will not be a liability at all because the game is so much slower.
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watungga
Professional
Sock is on bevel 4 not 5. That means it's a semi western grip
I just realized your point. LOL
dimkin
Hall of Fame
See where Fed's shoulder is - straight line from neck to wrist ... once he releases there are no hinge points that are stressed, whereas in Sock's case
we'd ALL have golfer's elbow galore ...
we'd ALL have golfer's elbow galore ...
-Federer and Sock forehand are the same if you view from the racquet perspective.
So which one will not hurt you?
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
neither if you're on time... both if you're lateFederer and Sock forehand are the same if you view from the racquet perspective.
So which one will not hurt you?
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
c'mon that's a little funny
watungga
Professional
IMO, both will hurt me big time.
Fed's racquet pulls his wrist way way back too much and putting pressure on "Flexor Carpi Radialis" (the top muscle of forearm) as it is setup by his FH grip.
On Sock's case, it hurts on the "Deltoids".
FYI, I can hit both styles coz these days I stopped being conscious about grips. For me, the grip only follows on the racquet's orientation to where its going to the ball. It saves me some moments to worry unnecessarily about anything on the grip part.
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