BrokenGears
Semi-Pro
Did we watch the same match?
How does this dude only have 3 US Opens
- Thread starter The Guru
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BrokenGears
Semi-Pro
I regularly watch that match as a reminder that the only slam that Peak Federer would decisively beat Peak Djokovic would be Wimby.He had SPs in the 2nd too
abmk
Bionic Poster
slightly mentally stronger Djoko would've taken 1st set. that's about it.
fed would've raised his level as needed and taken it in 4 sets or 5 sets anyways.
11 USO SF fed was clearly worse than USO 07 fed and 11 djoko clearly better than 07 djoko and fed had MPs in that one.
Unless djoko having SPs and not winning a set is more decisive than fed having MPs and being up 2 sets to love.
RS
Bionic Poster
Do you think Djokovic is the greatest USO player?
D
Deleted member 762343
Guest
2014 USO is the real mystery, he had no business messing it up.
Fiero425
Legend
You can't win them all! We've put so much pressure on the Big 3 to never drop a match to a lesser player! Unfortunately, Novak has been the most vulnerable in big moments to Murray, Wawrinka, & Del Po! The reason we weight more on his losses is because over the last 10+ years, he's been "pret' near" perfect, winning majors in bunches! He hasn't been able to pull off another YEC when it mattered like in 2016! The YE #1 was to be determined with that single final vs Murray! Del Po's hurt him the most deeply IMO because of those 2 defeats in the Olympics! Novak cried after that Rio 1s round defeat to his pigeon JMDP for the most part! You'd think Murray could sneak one of those AO's, but had his best results at '12 USO and '13 Wimbledon! Wawrinka's a headcase, but even though unbalanced losses to Novak, he got him at 3 majors; 2 in a final (FO & USO)! It's not like I"m a super fan of his or his game, but I like him being "just there" to keep Fedal & their fans in check concerning the BOAT race! Nole's really put a dent in their records surpassing them in every catagory earlier in his career than them!
Fiero425
Legend
Between technology of new rackets and homogenization, it's the reason we shouldn't try to compare this era with any past one! ;-)
tennisjedi
Hall of Fame
The US Open for Djokovic is like what the Madrid Open is for Nadal.
Both have underachieved in those tournaments.
Both have underachieved in those tournaments.
AnOctorokForDinner
G.O.A.T.
Novack has everything - peak, clutch, average, balance, whatever - fraud is le santoro with a serve, it is known.
The Guru
Legend
That's not what the phrase means. It implies a fundamental contradiction.
AnOctorokForDinner
G.O.A.T.
Of course you don't see said 'fundamental contradiction' in thinking novok has da bestest peak, prime, post-prime, longevity, clutch, etc. To you, he is everything.
AnOctorokForDinner
G.O.A.T.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I think this one is the "less worse" of all of them since 2011. Before that, I accept that he was just outplayed by players who were better than him at the time.
Yeah, he probably should have won anyway, but he went into the final having been on court for 5+ hours longer than Med, who is already 9 years younger than him to begin with. Without the legs, once he got in a hole the mental aspect was fried
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
The first set was a massive choke from Novak and he should never have lost it. Fed was sloppy that whole time but still managed to win that because Novak basically handed it to him with neutral errors to surrender the break and then several more for the tiebreak.
I would give the credit to Federer for winning that second set, though. That wasn’t really a choke from Novak even if he held set points. People lump it in with the first set in a deceptive sort of "he blew SPs in both of the first two sets!!!!!" but the actual play suggests that it was really Fed raising his game to snag the second. Have a look:
To break back, here's what Federer does to seize the break back at 2-4 (timestamp 1:04:15):
0-0: First Serve - excellent return from Federer which moves Djokovic into an uncomfortable position, forcing the error
0-15: Second serve - point is replayed because Djokovic challenges a terrible call that incorrectly put one of his shots out; the real point is an excellent 22-shot baseline exchange filled with deep, consistently hard shots from both players, culminating in Federer moving Djokovic out of place with a well-placed DTL backhand to force an error.
0-30: Second serve - this is just a straight-up unforced error
0-40: Second serve - nice return from Fed to force the error
After playing fairly erratic for most of the match, here Fed steps up the aggression and makes some great returns as well as forcing several errors from Djokovic. Novak could have played better, particularly in the third point, and he was 1/4 for first serves, but this was not a bad game from him and it doesn't really fit the choke definition in my view.
Novak has two set points at 5-6, Federer's serve (1:16:00):
15-40: Ace
30-40: First serve - excellent serve from Fed but an even better return from Djokovic who resets the rally to neutral; a few shots later he blasts the forehand to Federer but it's an unforced error as it misses by a millimeter (Hawk-Eye shows it to be an extremely close one)
40-40: First serve - big serve + 1 from Fed wins him the point with a FH winner
AD-40: First serve - Djokovic nets the return; forced error
Fed hits excellent first serves every point, hits some great forehands. A very well played game from him. Djokovic had an opportunity in the second point as it's the only one he really had a chance in. He errs by missing but it's by a literal millimeter (plus it was right into Fed's strike zone so there's no guarantee he wins the point even if the shot lands in). I hardly think this qualifies as a choke.
Djokovic is never ahead in the following tiebreak and that's all down to Fed playing some vintage tennis, hitting two great winners, making all first serves, and forcing four errors out of his opponent.
Yeah, I would say this is mostly Fed raising his game. Djokovic plays a couple of sub-par points (mostly limited to the first game though) which is entirely normal given our sample size. No real comparison to the first set where he coughed up five unforced errors and a double fault while serving for the set, along with several more errors and another double fault in the proceeding tiebreak.
An improved Fed is comfortably ahead in most departments during the third set and Djokovic doesn't have much opportunity to choke. Worth noting that Djokovic also plays clearly worse here compared to the last set though.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
2016 is inexcusable, what are people talking about with Staminal? Novak practically had half BYEs, one of the easiest roads to a Slam Final and to hell with his funk he still made WTF Title match. Wawrinka was not zoning Wawrinka, Novak should have beat him.
I'd say after that obviously 2012 but he also had his chances in 2010 and at least last year it shouldn't have been in straights and if he goes up 1-0 who knows how Daniil handles it.
I'd say after that obviously 2012 but he also had his chances in 2010 and at least last year it shouldn't have been in straights and if he goes up 1-0 who knows how Daniil handles it.
RS
Bionic Poster
BrokenGears
Semi-Pro
I'll amend my statement. Medium mental Djokovic would have won that match in four or five.
BrokenGears
Semi-Pro
I should have been clearer with my post I guess, but I don't even really disagree with most of your analysis. First set and until 4-1, Djokovic was outplaying Federer.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
Why have you put all this effort when you could've just quoted what commentator said at 1:04:35?
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
because they’re commentators
RS
Bionic Poster
All pretty close huh?mythical fedr 4eva
actually it's impossible to tell and you know it, the master baiter you are
Biotic
Hall of Fame
They were right this time
AnOctorokForDinner
G.O.A.T.
When my eyedoll's opponents get tight, it's because of how good he is. When his rivals' opponents get tight, it's because they are weak mugs. True story.
BrokenGears
Semi-Pro
No, it's because Djokovic's game induces errors and tightness unless you mean to tell me that Fed's game centers around high percentage tennis. Are you on the StrongRule "all of Djokovic's opponents magically get worse and start missing for no reason when they play him" grind now as well?
AnOctorokForDinner
G.O.A.T.
I was lampooning the common hypocrisy, if you didn't notice. Of course Federer used plenty of defence too and in particular drew a ton of errors with his expert slice.
Look man, the whole charade about the current era is that it simply takes less. Old hoarders keep winning while both them and they opponents play a rung below what used to be the top tennis, taking the overall package of power-consistency-placement-variety-eckcetera. It's easy to overlook/ignore if you aren't particularly interested in that sort of thing, so most people are clueless as usual. In the end, since a rigorous standard of proof cannot be upheld in subject matter, everyone will be left thinking what they like.
Nadal_King
Hall of Fame
I think he deserved more here and much less at Wimbledon so in the end it has been positive for him. 5 at Us open were perfect and 4 at Wimbledon so overall he has done 1 better
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Surprised you feel this way.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol indeed that the favourite and better player of the match won.
Tennfan123
Legend
Sometimes we just have to slay.EXACTLY lol
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
And Andy Murray is the king of AO.
BrokenGears
Semi-Pro
Huh? My position has always been
AO: 7-3
RG: 5-5
WI: 3-7
US: 5-5
TBH though, I can easily see 6-4 and 4-6 for both AO and WI respectively and might favor that position. Fed's 14 and 15 WI performances all throughout the tournament are of course majorly underrated.
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I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Because he isn't a HC specialist
I Am Finnish
Bionic Poster
Nadal is the king of Miami
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic has 9 AO finals. Murray has 5.
The Guru
Legend
Attrition from tougher draws has arguably costed him in matches he's lost namely 10/13/14/21. Not saying he wins all or any of these with draws reversed but he might've.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
This is so true. One of the things I don't hear people mention when talking about Djokovic's record in US Open finals is that he's never had the luxury of playing a first time GS finalist there, so he's always been up against a player with experience at that level and like you say, very tough competition in general. Obviously this doesn't always turn out to be the case and sometimes we see a first time finalist play a really great final such as Del Potro in 09 but moments like that are quite rare, at least in the men's game. Not saying this is the only reason for Novak's underperformance but I do think it's a big factor in why he "only" has three titles in NYC.Because he met the players at USO at their peak .
If you notice , other players who won 4-5 US Opens didn't meet most Rivals in finals at their very peak .
If you notice , Those who blame Djokovic for not facing players at their peak at Wimbledon are dead silent about Djokovic facing rivals at their peak at USO & their favourite players racking up USO's facing kids in slam finals .
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Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
How many AO plates did Djokovic win? Zero!! Murray has 5 and Djokovic has 6 from USO.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Got away with having no super close losses that weren't windray, too, so much less is made of it.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Actually 2012 was a break for Djokovic after 5 straight heavyweight fights on 2007-2011.
Only had to beat inexperienced Murray who'd never won a slam.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic has 7 losses at USO in his career excluding finals.
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