How does this dude only have 3 US Opens

abmk

Bionic Poster
Watch the 2007 match. He gave up 5 set points in the first and was up a break in the second. A slightly mentally stronger Novak would have won it in four or five.
slightly mentally stronger Djoko would've taken 1st set. that's about it.
fed would've raised his level as needed and taken it in 4 sets or 5 sets anyways.
11 USO SF fed was clearly worse than USO 07 fed and 11 djoko clearly better than 07 djoko and fed had MPs in that one.

Unless djoko having SPs and not winning a set is more decisive than fed having MPs and being up 2 sets to love. :rolleyes:
 
D

Deleted member 762343

Guest
2014 USO is the real mystery, he had no business messing it up.
 

Fiero425

Legend
Muzz beat Novak fair and square in two major finals within the space of nearly a year. Novak has lost finals to lesser opponents. Don't be a small cat
You can't win them all! We've put so much pressure on the Big 3 to never drop a match to a lesser player! Unfortunately, Novak has been the most vulnerable in big moments to Murray, Wawrinka, & Del Po! The reason we weight more on his losses is because over the last 10+ years, he's been "pret' near" perfect, winning majors in bunches! He hasn't been able to pull off another YEC when it mattered like in 2016! The YE #1 was to be determined with that single final vs Murray! Del Po's hurt him the most deeply IMO because of those 2 defeats in the Olympics! Novak cried after that Rio 1s round defeat to his pigeon JMDP for the most part! You'd think Murray could sneak one of those AO's, but had his best results at '12 USO and '13 Wimbledon! Wawrinka's a headcase, but even though unbalanced losses to Novak, he got him at 3 majors; 2 in a final (FO & USO)! It's not like I"m a super fan of his or his game, but I like him being "just there" to keep Fedal & their fans in check concerning the BOAT race! Nole's really put a dent in their records surpassing them in every catagory earlier in his career than them! :rolleyes::giggle::cautious::unsure:
 

Fiero425

Legend
Do you think Djokovic is the greatest USO player?
He could have been but for deal with the Devil to sneek win those 2 USO SF matches from Federer in '10 & '11 respectively! He's had some brutal losses over the years! ;-)
 

Fiero425

Legend
Djokovic should have a minimum 7 USOs and at most 3 WBs, but he has 3 USOs and 7 WBs.

Men's tennis has been weird since the 2010s.
Between technology of new rackets and homogenization, it's the reason we shouldn't try to compare this era with any past one! ;-)
 
Lol eating cake means sex on the beach to me but I get what you were going for. I also don't get how that saying applies here. Also not sure if your aware here but I'm trolling as are you I assume.
Novack has everything - peak, clutch, average, balance, whatever - fraud is le santoro with a serve, it is known.
 

RS

Talk Tennis Guru
Who wins these matchups?

1. Federer USO 09 SF vs Djokovic USO 12 QF
2. Federer USO 07 F vs Djokovic USO 15 SF
3. Federer USO 09 SF vs Djokovic USO 15 F
4. Djokovic USO 12 QF vs Djokovic USO 11 F
5. Federer USO 11 SF vs Djokovic USO 12 QF
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
2021: laid a massive egg
I think this one is the "less worse" of all of them since 2011. Before that, I accept that he was just outplayed by players who were better than him at the time.

Yeah, he probably should have won anyway, but he went into the final having been on court for 5+ hours longer than Med, who is already 9 years younger than him to begin with. Without the legs, once he got in a hole the mental aspect was fried
 

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Did we watch the same match?
The first set was a massive choke from Novak and he should never have lost it. Fed was sloppy that whole time but still managed to win that because Novak basically handed it to him with neutral errors to surrender the break and then several more for the tiebreak.

I would give the credit to Federer for winning that second set, though. That wasn’t really a choke from Novak even if he held set points. People lump it in with the first set in a deceptive sort of "he blew SPs in both of the first two sets!!!!!" but the actual play suggests that it was really Fed raising his game to snag the second. Have a look:


To break back, here's what Federer does to seize the break back at 2-4 (timestamp 1:04:15):

0-0: First Serve - excellent return from Federer which moves Djokovic into an uncomfortable position, forcing the error
0-15: Second serve - point is replayed because Djokovic challenges a terrible call that incorrectly put one of his shots out; the real point is an excellent 22-shot baseline exchange filled with deep, consistently hard shots from both players, culminating in Federer moving Djokovic out of place with a well-placed DTL backhand to force an error.
0-30: Second serve - this is just a straight-up unforced error
0-40: Second serve - nice return from Fed to force the error

After playing fairly erratic for most of the match, here Fed steps up the aggression and makes some great returns as well as forcing several errors from Djokovic. Novak could have played better, particularly in the third point, and he was 1/4 for first serves, but this was not a bad game from him and it doesn't really fit the choke definition in my view.

Novak has two set points at 5-6, Federer's serve (1:16:00):

15-40: Ace
30-40: First serve - excellent serve from Fed but an even better return from Djokovic who resets the rally to neutral; a few shots later he blasts the forehand to Federer but it's an unforced error as it misses by a millimeter (Hawk-Eye shows it to be an extremely close one)
40-40: First serve - big serve + 1 from Fed wins him the point with a FH winner
AD-40: First serve - Djokovic nets the return; forced error

Fed hits excellent first serves every point, hits some great forehands. A very well played game from him. Djokovic had an opportunity in the second point as it's the only one he really had a chance in. He errs by missing but it's by a literal millimeter (plus it was right into Fed's strike zone so there's no guarantee he wins the point even if the shot lands in). I hardly think this qualifies as a choke.

Djokovic is never ahead in the following tiebreak and that's all down to Fed playing some vintage tennis, hitting two great winners, making all first serves, and forcing four errors out of his opponent.

Yeah, I would say this is mostly Fed raising his game. Djokovic plays a couple of sub-par points (mostly limited to the first game though) which is entirely normal given our sample size. No real comparison to the first set where he coughed up five unforced errors and a double fault while serving for the set, along with several more errors and another double fault in the proceeding tiebreak.

An improved Fed is comfortably ahead in most departments during the third set and Djokovic doesn't have much opportunity to choke. Worth noting that Djokovic also plays clearly worse here compared to the last set though.
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
2016 is inexcusable, what are people talking about with Staminal? Novak practically had half BYEs, one of the easiest roads to a Slam Final and to hell with his funk he still made WTF Title match. Wawrinka was not zoning Wawrinka, Novak should have beat him.

I'd say after that obviously 2012 but he also had his chances in 2010 and at least last year it shouldn't have been in straights and if he goes up 1-0 who knows how Daniil handles it.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
The first set was a massive choke from Novak and he should never have lost it. Fed was sloppy that whole time but still managed to win that because Novak basically handed it to him with neutral errors to surrender the break and then several more for the tiebreak.

I would give the credit to Federer for winning that second set, though. That wasn’t really a choke from Novak even if he held set points. People lump it in with the first set in a deceptive sort of "he blew SPs in both of the first two sets!!!!!" but the actual play suggests that it was really Fed raising his game to snag the second. Have a look:


To break back, here's what Federer does to seize the break back at 2-4 (timestamp 1:04:15):

0-0: First Serve - excellent return from Federer which moves Djokovic into an uncomfortable position, forcing the error
0-15: Second serve - point is replayed because Djokovic challenges a terrible call that incorrectly put one of his shots out; the real point is an excellent 22-shot baseline exchange filled with deep, consistently hard shots from both players, culminating in Federer moving Djokovic out of place with a well-placed DTL backhand to force an error.
0-30: Second serve - this is just a straight-up unforced error
0-40: Second serve - nice return from Fed to force the error

After playing fairly erratic for most of the match, here Fed steps up the aggression and makes some great returns as well as forcing several errors from Djokovic. Novak could have played better, particularly in the third point, and he was 1/4 for first serves, but this was not a bad game from him and it doesn't really fit the choke definition in my view.

Novak has two set points at 5-6, Federer's serve (1:16:00):

15-40: Ace
30-40: First serve - excellent serve from Fed but an even better return from Djokovic who resets the rally to neutral; a few shots later he blasts the forehand to Federer but it's an unforced error as it misses by a millimeter (Hawk-Eye shows it to be an extremely close one)
40-40: First serve - big serve + 1 from Fed wins him the point with a FH winner
AD-40: First serve - Djokovic nets the return; forced error

Fed hits excellent first serves every point, hits some great forehands. A very well played game from him. Djokovic had an opportunity in the second point as it's the only one he really had a chance in. He errs by missing but it's by a literal millimeter (plus it was right into Fed's strike zone so there's no guarantee he wins the point even if the shot lands in). I hardly think this qualifies as a choke.

Djokovic is never ahead in the following tiebreak and that's all down to Fed playing some vintage tennis, hitting two great winners, making all first serves, and forcing four errors out of his opponent.

Yeah, I would say this is mostly Fed raising his game. Djokovic plays a couple of sub-par points (mostly limited to the first game though) which is entirely normal given our sample size. No real comparison to the first set where he coughed up five unforced errors and a double fault while serving for the set, along with several more errors and another double fault in the proceeding tiebreak.

An improved Fed is comfortably ahead in most departments during the third set and Djokovic doesn't have much opportunity to choke. Worth noting that Djokovic also plays clearly worse here compared to the last set though.
Why have you put all this effort when you could've just quoted what commentator said at 1:04:35?
 
When my eyedoll's opponents get tight, it's because of how good he is. When his rivals' opponents get tight, it's because they are weak mugs. True story.
 

BrokenGears

Semi-Pro
it's because they are weak mugs
No, it's because Djokovic's game induces errors and tightness unless you mean to tell me that Fed's game centers around high percentage tennis. Are you on the StrongRule "all of Djokovic's opponents magically get worse and start missing for no reason when they play him" grind now as well?
 
No, it's because Djokovic's game induces errors and tightness unless you mean to tell me that Fed's game centers around high percentage tennis. Are you on the StrongRule "all of Djokovic's opponents magically get worse and start missing for no reason when they play him" grind now as well?
I was lampooning the common hypocrisy, if you didn't notice. Of course Federer used plenty of defence too and in particular drew a ton of errors with his expert slice.

Look man, the whole charade about the current era is that it simply takes less. Old hoarders keep winning while both them and they opponents play a rung below what used to be the top tennis, taking the overall package of power-consistency-placement-variety-eckcetera. It's easy to overlook/ignore if you aren't particularly interested in that sort of thing, so most people are clueless as usual. In the end, since a rigorous standard of proof cannot be upheld in subject matter, everyone will be left thinking what they like.
 

mahatma

Hall of Fame
Mostly by the time USO happens, Novak had a slam in AO making his season not so bad mentally. If USO would have been the first slam of the year he would have had a different result sheet here.
 

Nadal_King

Hall of Fame
I think he deserved more here and much less at Wimbledon so in the end it has been positive for him. 5 at Us open were perfect and 4 at Wimbledon so overall he has done 1 better
 

BrokenGears

Semi-Pro
Surprised you feel this way.
Huh? My position has always been

AO: 7-3
RG: 5-5
WI: 3-7
US: 5-5

TBH though, I can easily see 6-4 and 4-6 for both AO and WI respectively and might favor that position. Fed's 14 and 15 WI performances all throughout the tournament are of course majorly underrated.
 
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The Guru

Legend
Djokovic playing Fed 5 years in a row at the USO (this is actually an open era record) and never once getting a year without Fedal/Murray/Wawrinka until 2018 is a bit underdiscussed I think.

Constant heavyweight showdowns for the guy.
Attrition from tougher draws has arguably costed him in matches he's lost namely 10/13/14/21. Not saying he wins all or any of these with draws reversed but he might've.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Because he met the players at USO at their peak .

If you notice , other players who won 4-5 US Opens didn't meet most Rivals in finals at their very peak .

If you notice , Those who blame Djokovic for not facing players at their peak at Wimbledon are dead silent about Djokovic facing rivals at their peak at USO & their favourite players racking up USO's facing kids in slam finals . :D
This is so true. One of the things I don't hear people mention when talking about Djokovic's record in US Open finals is that he's never had the luxury of playing a first time GS finalist there, so he's always been up against a player with experience at that level and like you say, very tough competition in general. Obviously this doesn't always turn out to be the case and sometimes we see a first time finalist play a really great final such as Del Potro in 09 but moments like that are quite rare, at least in the men's game. Not saying this is the only reason for Novak's underperformance but I do think it's a big factor in why he "only" has three titles in NYC.
 
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2007: choked a bit but firmly outplayed for others
2008-2010: simply outplayed and had some issues with match fitness in 2008 and 2010
2012: bad luck
2013: choked and played terribly
2014: terrible performance
2016: a bit lucky to reach the final but once there he choked a bit and played poorly for most of the match
2019: injury but I think Stan was beating him anyway
2020: unlucky but he played with fire here by smacking the ball like that in the first place
2021: laid a massive egg

It's hard to think of any player who has underperformed on so many different occasions at a Slam as much as Djokovic has at the US Open.
Got away with having no super close losses that weren't windray, too, so much less is made of it.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Djokovic playing Fed 5 years in a row at the USO (this is actually an open era record) and never once getting a year without Fedal/Murray/Wawrinka until 2018 is a bit underdiscussed I think.

Constant heavyweight showdowns for the guy.
Actually 2012 was a break for Djokovic after 5 straight heavyweight fights on 2007-2011.

Only had to beat inexperienced Murray who'd never won a slam.
 
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