How dose a forehand shot relate to throwing a ball?

There is a lot of talk drawing a parallel between a tennis serve and throwing a ball overhand. Executing a tennis serve is a lot like throwing a football or pitching a baseball.

But what about forehand? How does hitting a forehand relate to throwing a ball? What type of ball throwing motion is closest to forehand?
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Nothing… The closest thing would be throwing a frisbee, but even that is completely different from the forehand in tennis.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
There are some similiarities to sidearm/underhand throws.. Because you are going for topspin though - instead of backspin/nospin its different.
 

Tight Lines

Professional
There is a lot of talk drawing a parallel between a tennis serve and throwing a ball overhand. Executing a tennis serve is a lot like throwing a football or pitching a baseball.

But what about forehand? How does hitting a forehand relate to throwing a ball? What type of ball throwing motion is closest to forehand?

IMO, the sidearm throw of a baseball is very similar to a forehand in terms of using ESR and ISR. They are both using shoulder rotation for speed.

Harry
 
IMO, the sidearm throw of a baseball is very similar to a forehand in terms of using ESR and ISR. They are both using shoulder rotation for speed.

Harry

not really. the sidearm throw still uses arm extension for acceleration while even with a SA forehand the arm gets straight before it goes forward.

the forehand is more like a softball pitch than a submarine or sidearm throw.
 

Tight Lines

Professional
not really. the sidearm throw still uses arm extension for acceleration while even with a SA forehand the arm gets straight before it goes forward.

the forehand is more like a softball pitch than a submarine or sidearm throw.

Disagree. IMO, most of the speed gain is from ISR just like a forehand, not arm extension.

Harry
 

corners

Legend
There is a lot of talk drawing a parallel between a tennis serve and throwing a ball overhand. Executing a tennis serve is a lot like throwing a football or pitching a baseball.

But what about forehand? How does hitting a forehand relate to throwing a ball? What type of ball throwing motion is closest to forehand?
Some ATP forehands, Roddick's for instance, are very, very similar to the sidearm throwing motion used by some baseball players.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
This thread had some discussion of baseball pitches. In particular, it had one of the best high speed videos of a baseball pitch that I have seen. The other outstanding video is the Red Bull Tim Lincecum video.

Click ">" to go to the thread.
I don't really know, seems to allow the arm to throw hard. This guy talks about how to improve pronation - says it's not totally natural, he's most likely right. Starts talking about it at 13:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vo0SRBxjd0

Here's an article - "The reason high pronation speeds will effect vertical ball movement is because it increases the spin rate of the baseball. This is no different than the effect of spin rate on the spiral of a football. - See more at: http://www.topvelocity.net/pronation-supports-pitching-velocity-while-preventing-injury/#sthash.MIx9TqdE.dpuf"

That is a great video on pitching. I wish there were similar ones available for tennis.

Elbow Bent. At 11:23 there are high speed videos of the arm. Look at the elbow rotation and separately the elbow bending. For the basic acceleration motion, the elbow appears to be extending while the upper arm is rotating. ISR accelerates the hand with a bent elbow. The pitch is very, very fast.

Timing.
For the tennis serve - using a straight arm - the racket goes from perpendicular to the forearm to impacting the ball in about 20-30 milliseconds as ISR angular acceleration occurs. The baseball pitch looks faster.

Main Racket or Hand Acceleration.
My approach for understanding the tennis serve or the pitch is first to concentrate on what mainly accelerates the racket leading to impact or the hand leading to release. This approach follows the tennis serve researchers, mainly B. Elliott's publications. The ISR view for the tennis serve was also established earlier by badminton researchers studying the badminton smash as early as the 1970s. For both the tennis serve and the badminton smash ISR has been established as dominant in providing the basic racket head acceleration.

Video on Curve Ball. For pitching, besides the basic acceleration of the hand, for each type pitch there are additional spins put on the ball by rapid hand motions at release. These hand motions are probably to the side and not so much in the pitch direction. The video is about the curve ball and emphasizes the release pronation to add spin. See 11:30 in the video and other ball releases especially from the mirror view. (The video can be slowed down to 1/4 speed with a Youtube control, selectable from YT.) The tricky last millisecond pronation at release is shown as well as the pronation in the follow through. I look at that motion as a separate subject from how the basic hand speed is developed and the dominant part played by ISR.

That is the best pitch video and explanation that I've seen so far, thanks for posting.

Throwing is highly recommended for tennis. For me it takes a lot of effort to understand some of the the main aspects of tennis strokes - with a lot of gaps in my understanding. Trying to add an analysis of how the baseball pitch differs is not on my priority list. I believe that throwing is a plus but worry that practice might ingrain some unwanted muscle memory also. ?? Their are a lot of posters with very positive personal experience applying throwing to tennis stroke training.

I believe that both serve and throw stretch muscles and then use them later to get high velocity. The feel of the stretch, wait and release of the main stretched muscles may be similar.

Hope that you find some good analyses.
 
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