How fast do recreational players serve?

LeeD said:
1st player is only hitting top/slice, so it can't be 100 unless it's hit by Groth.
2nd player hit's fast, with an short motion.
3rd player might be an Open level player.
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I think you're correct. I think the 3rd guy (discussed on another video) was said to have ATP points.

I still prefer using radar than watching video, even using that online frame count calculator. Unless the camera is high enough, it is hard to see the bounce and you need to see the bounce to get a very accurate distance estimate.
 
I always THOUGHT that camera speeds vary with battery level, kind of battery, air temps, and a few other variables. Frame speeds are NOT stable.
 
RJ-L said:
Are we watching the same video? because i count 3 first serves in.

@TCF i think your radar gun is probably off.
a month ago my serves were clocked at 115 mph at the ABN atp tournament in Rotterdam.

These serves wont hit the 115 but the certainly hit the 100 mph mark.
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Whoever says your fastest serves in your vid are around the 80mph are probably blind, jealous or have never seen a tennis serve before, because your serves are clearly faster then 70-80 mph, they definitely look to be around the 100 mph or a bit faster, it's just impossible to get the correct estimation in these boards, I mean you could have a clear serve at 200 kph but no one on these boards will say its that fast, I mean to the guy that said your faster serves looked to be in the low 80 mph range, that's about 150 kph, that's not fast, most pro players can second serve that fast, go watch any match on youtube and look for a serve around 80-90 mph and you'll see its hardly that fast, not as fast as your best serves in your video that's for sure

The way I can tell if a serve is fast is by counting to 1 then 2, 1 when the racket makes contact with the ball and 2 when the ball hits the court, and if it's a very quick count then it'll be a fast serve and yours was fast
 
LeeD said:
I always THOUGHT that camera speeds vary with battery level, kind of battery, air temps, and a few other variables. Frame speeds are NOT stable.
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My understanding is that this isn't an issue with the modern solid state video cameras. But I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if this is true.

However, when things are transferred to the tube, sometimes the frame rate is altered and I'm not sure how this remains consistent.

I can take video from my Casio shot at over 200-something (need to look it up) fps, and then frame count in Quicktime and plug it into the online calculator. Assuming that the online calculator physics model is fairly close, it should work. I still just prefer someone to use the radar gun. I trust that more. It has only gone haywire one time, and the error was very obvious.
 
I'm not technology pro, I'm actually CON.
Fast serve? Easy. Go to courts, hit serves. Observe 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5 level players serve.
What's YOUR serve like?
Mine is around 100, faster than all except maybe 3 out of 20 4.5 player's, and all 3 are taller than 6'3" and easily 30 years younger.
 
Well, I gotta admit, moment I saw it, I was thinking.. Sad, slow, weak....
But if sad, slow, weak get's me the pure Alpha serve in 3.5, 4.0, and one of the 5 fastest out of 30 4.5's at SanPabloPark, then everyone really has weak serves.
 
LeeD said:
I'm not technology pro, I'm actually CON.
Fast serve? Easy. Go to courts, hit serves. Observe 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5 level players serve.
What's YOUR serve like?
Mine is around 100, faster than all except maybe 3 out of 20 4.5 player's, and all 3 are taller than 6'3" and easily 30 years younger.
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If you are able to serve 100 somewhat consistently, you should be able to beat 4.0 with ease. They would make error ROS over 50% time, the other 50% time is easy put away for you. No?
 
On a good day, I think I should be able to get my serve into the high seventies to low eighties - I hope! I can't blow away opponents with just pace. I usually spin the heck out of it, the theory being that if I myself don't know how the ball is going to move after bouncing, how the heck can my opponent anticipate it! And, the ball does exhibit frustrating variability sometimes - low bounce, high bounce, break to the left, break to the right, no movement at all - and is a lot more effective than a flat serve.
 
The top LeeD level players in my section have very twisty and rarely flat serves. Most of them had training as juniors and wear proper Nike gear.
 
I was watching some college tennis in person today, and I noticed that the hardest servers had a distinct sound to their serves. So I think one rule of thumb for a hard serve is that it would create a loud percussion sound.

So if your serve isn't loud, it's probably not very fast.
 
120+. rec. (def: non-professional or ex-prof, preferably non-D1 as I'm guessing there are like a handful that could hit 120.) HS is certainly fair game -- just pointing out that JMike appears to have some HS tennis foundation and was borderline prof/D1 baseball player.
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You are pointing out because you are dead wrong. You are allowed to play other sports - and still be a recreational tennis player.

Yes if we limit the word 'rec player' to that of 'terrible athletes' then we will not find many people who can serve big. But a recreational player is someone who plays tennis for fun - not for money.

My speculation is that you want to feel better about your non-huge serve so you made up this theory that no one serves big. But it's not true..

Big tall guys athletic guys serve big almost without fail..Find me a guy who say pitched at HS varsity level in a decent school and you will find a guy who serves big.

The major issue for tennis is its not getting the best athletes. Those guys are all out playing hoops or football - guys like J.Mike..

I remember hearing about how one trainer called James Blake "average" compared to the other athletes he trained.
 
I have a radar. 115 is the hardest i've clocked. i think most of mine r between 85 n 105 though. Placement and spin is most important! Aah and consistancy.
 
user92626 said:
If you are able to serve 100 somewhat consistently, you should be able to beat 4.0 with ease. They would make error ROS over 50% time, the other 50% time is easy put away for you. No?
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I think this is true. If I'm placing my serve well and mixing it up the same is true for 4.5 and 5.0 players. But yeah against 4.0s. just pace is enough to hold fairly easy.
 
If you can only hit your big flat serve up the t - its not much of a weapon no matter how fast it is. That being said most people that can hit a big flat serve can hit a nice kicker. So its usually not an issue.
 
I think those who can play properly and has had lessons and an OK technique can get up to 100mph or more, but i think the average would be 80-90mph?
 
GuyClinch said:
My speculation is that you want to feel better about your non-huge serve so you made up this theory that no one serves big. But it's not true..
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Have you seen my serve? I like to live in reality; real numbers, real ball speeds. This enables me to recognize the greatness, talent and training it take to go 120+. Sure rec servers can serve big but....

I point out I'm *still* awaiting video of a rec^ guy serving a 120+ in serve....


^non-pro; no college scholarship. simple.
 
Hint: If it can be found it'll likely be a young (16/17 yo) player with a live arm. Any 18+ kid with a 120+ will be playing for a quality college program or dipping his toes into pro events.
 
tennis_ocd said:
Hint: If it can be found it'll likely be a young (16/17 yo) player with a live arm. Any 18+ kid with a 120+ will be playing for a quality college program or dipping his toes into pro events.
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I think you're probably wrong on this point. While most of the guys hitting over 120 in their 20s are going to be either ex-college, ex-touring, or teaching pros, a lot of guys reach their peak strength in their 20s. Most of the good high school players I saw weren't hitting very hard.

When I first started hitting close to 120, I was in my 30s. If I had been playing much tennis in my 20s, I believe I could have hit harder than I do today.

The difficulty of finding evidence is that very few rec players video their hitting and put it up on the internet.
 
If Sandler had time to train and had proper gear he could climb the ladder of the 4.5 league in my section pretty quickly.
 
Have you seen my serve? I like to live in reality; real numbers, real ball speeds. This enables me to recognize the greatness, talent and training it take to go 120+. Sure rec servers can serve big but....

I point out I'm *still* awaiting video of a rec^ guy serving a 120+ in serve....


^non-pro; no college scholarship. simple.
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Obviously have a reading comprehension problem in your reality because I posted an example of just such a player. <g> In fact the guy DOESN'T EVEN PLAY TENNIS!
 
LeeD said:
Friend of mine, a gymnastic instructor for USF, can hit a 6 iron close to 260 yards on a fly!
His driver only really goes around 290, if he needs to keep it straight.
And his 9 only goes 130 yards.
His 7 almost matches with my 7, max in target golf around 180.
But for some reason, his 6 iron trumps my driver's distance.
But he plays with his driver at least half the holes in a regulation course, so his scores pile up into the mid 90's, just like mine.
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This makes no sense. 9 going 130 when his driver goes 290? I get 240 on avg and my 9 goes 130. My friend who hits driver 250 can PW it 150.

Your friend must really suck at hitting a 9 iron.
 
We play target golf at the range, so accuracy and distance is most important.
6 iron, he's just nailing it.
Going for 130 with a wedge is just stupid, as it goes higher than it goes far.
 
I was playing at the university this afternoon and the Cal players were practicing in the courts next to us (Cal plays Utah tomorrow). I was serving pretty similar speed to those guys. But man, those guys are really f'in good at tennis.
 
JoelDali said:
LeeD can hit a Ping 7 iron over that mountain.
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uncle+rico+throwing+football.jpeg
 
Never said all or nearly all of them. I did the frame count thing a while back so my memory may escape me, but I believe one of them registered, again, optimistically at 92 or 94.
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Yeah one of them clocks in pretty good - I tested this a while back too. Its not IMPOSSIBLE for LeeD to be able to hit a 100mph serve once in a while. But you really need a high frame rate recording to make the frame rate test accurate. And we don't know exactly what the upload conversion does to some of these movies.

But I think alot of rec players serve bigger - judging from that clip. And they should - because the are much younger and much bigger human beings.

All things being equal the bigger stronger guys are going to be able hit much harder serves.
 
Absolutely true, bigger, younger, stronger guys always should serve harder.
And yes, a few guys at the courts do serve harder, but they are 25+ years younger, usually 6'2" but more likely 6'4" and taller.
5'10" ?, I did see a lefty who got a scholarship to U of Oregon, easy Open level, serve some pretty fast serves.
 
GuyClinch said:
Obviously have a reading comprehension problem in your reality because I posted an example of just such a player. In fact the guy DOESN'T EVEN PLAY TENNIS!
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That may explain why he doesn't know an *IN* serve.

Even more reality, the so called non-player, states he was mvp of his school team. If you can get him hitting a good serve you meet the challenge!
 
mightyrick said:
uncle+rico+throwing+football.jpeg
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If you're ever in the ghetto I will buy you a drink, friend.

It is always my hope that when referencing Uncle Rico in a heavily LeeD based thread that one of you guys will pick up on my collaborative troll outreach and follow up with an epic ND pic.

Thank you sir. You make my life worth living.

I love you LeeD. Your GOAT Gonad tadpoles should be saved and distributed to all women of the earth in tiny vials painted with butterflies and sunflowers. So that all of us can become a piece of you and stop being afraid of making oneself vulnerable and spraying GOAT juice on the Queens bound 7 train on the way to Forest Hills onward to 4.5 USTA Immortality.
 
Watching the Elvis YouTube videos from this period is sad. The guy is completely fuchen wasted and disinterested. Drugs really thrashed him.
 
And the answer is....

I have a radar gun and clocked a lot of people. The average 3.5 and 4.0 player is tagging their serve at about 68-78 mph. The guys that most of us think are banging their serve are hitting flat serves between 85 and 92 mph and the real 4.5 guys are hitting between 92 and 105. Everybody it seems is 10 mph slower on their 2nd serve.
 
Actually, anyone with a fast first serve serves his second around 30 mph slower!
My twists can go as slow as 60, for sure.
 
LeeD said:
Actually, anyone with a fast first serve serves his second around 30 mph slower!
My twists can go as slow as 60, for sure.
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Same with me. I'm considerably more than 10mph slower between my first and second serve most of the time.

This last weekend my first serve wasn't very fast either. Doubt I hit many above 90mph.
 
Same with most pros not named Sampras.
Most can hit 135 for their fastest flat serves.
Most hit second serves around 85 mph.
Nobody serves both serves within 10 mph.
 
LeeD said:
Nobody serves both serves within 10 mph.
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This isn't quite right. Lower level players often have basically the same serve for first and second. I can easily imagine that there might only be a 10mph difference as a margin of safety. Especially when they basically just bump both first and second serves toward the box.

However, you're correct when you talk about higher level players who are hitting hard flats or slices mostly on first serves and topspin variants for seconds.
 
LeeD said:
Yes, beginners can often hit faster second serves than firsts.
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LOL. I think I played someone like that yesterday. The first serve goes short, so the second is hit harder to make it over the net.

These are usually players who are part of the half of all recreational players who can't hit over 80mph.
 
My two most recent posts refer to "fast first serves" and the speed of the second serves from guys who actually try to hit "fast first serves".
My difference is around 30 mph, mostly.
I also swing faster on my second serves.
 
I was watching the top 3.5 in the eastern region training tonight and he would seriously damage any 4.5 here. Trolls. All of you.
 
JoelDali said:
I was watching the top 3.5 in the eastern region training tonight and he would seriously damage any 4.5 here. Trolls. All of you.
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That's probably because the 'top 3.5' is a 4.5, if a player is dominating at any level short of the tour then they are just playing at the wrong level. I've never understood why anyone aspires to those 'big fish in a small pond' situations, at the correct level you will be winning roughly as often as you lose; if they are so concerned with winning all the time why not play against a 5 year old, then they'll win every match!

The only situation where you should be winning significantly more than half the time is when there aren't enough players in the world who can beat you to fill out the draw of a tournament, and that is only true for the top 100.
 
It's not his fault, the captain tricked him - dude is from Argentina and doesn't comprehend NTRP or bagels.

3.5 GOAT
 
JoelDali said:
I was watching the top 3.5 in the eastern region training tonight and he would seriously damage any 4.5 here. Trolls. All of you.
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I was at those courts at the same exact time and I can attest to the great-ness that was beheld by this man and all other tennis enthusiasts at the designated location. The 3.5 stands for poetry in motion every 3.5 points on average.
 
GoudX said:
if they are so concerned with winning all the time why not play against a 5 year old, then they'll win every match!
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Watched the Long Island club 5 yo rising talent hitting last night. His well-timed fist pumps, 8 immaculately stenciled aeropros neatly packed in aeroline 12 pack bag and nike hero print bandana enable him to hang with the best craiglist 4.5’s in Queens. Not a trace of varicose veins on his gold-digger, 3.5 self-rate mom.

/end Dali mode
 
Was at Roosevelt island tonight and witnessed 4.0 destruction and the greatest 4.5 self rates of my generation absolutely crush middle aged spider veined 4.0 mixed doubles potluck tennis dinner death grip agony. These chicks serve in the low 50s.
 
:):)
One of the better doubles player's at our weekend 4.0 doubles group is a lefty girl who serves barely 45 mph, but volley's light's out, and has a great ROS.
We can only take advantage of her if we hit our best shots, then she can't do anything at all. If we hit to her game, she can beat us most of the time. "Her" game has us standing around and looking at the other courts, while the point is in play.
 
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