How Fed will consistantly beat Nadal, Djoke and Murray

[Mick3391]

I watched the full Fed/Djoke Cincinnati match last night. They had three British commentators. They were saying that during Feds "Dry Period", he was playing basically baseline versus baseline, so many matchups were evenly split, but they pointed out that recently (Wimbledon wins over Djoke and Murray), that when Fed gets confidence to come to the net and hit alot of drop shots, he wins.

This makes much sense to me. Imagine the insecurity of a baseliner standing 3 feet behind the baseline seeing Fed drop a shot two feet over the net. They never know if they are in the right position or not. If you watch that Match at Djoke in Cincinatti, you'll see it. They said "Djokes backhand was not working", was it that or was he insecure hitting it? You'll see how Fed won, he'd drive a ball deep into Djokes backhand, then AS Djoke hit the shot (So it's too late), Fed rushes the net, grabs the ball mid-air or right on the rise, and he drops it short, it's too late, Djoke didn't even get close to it. Also, by doing this it draws the Baseliners up, so Fed can either drop it or drive it deep. Notice the last two times Fed beat Djoke, he had him tied in knots, unsure, he was out of his game.

So IMO and those "Experts", if Fed "Mixes it up", I think he'll keep beating the top guys but more consistantly. I had said this before and everyone said I was nuts. Watch this video to see what I mean, it's basic instruction but it makes my point better than I can explain;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KefXBBSk7ec

 

[Polaris]

How Fed will consistantly beat Nadal, Djoke and Murray

He won't, unfortunately. He will eventually fall behind in the rivalries as he ages. It is natural. I'm just hoping that he wins the important ones.

But, you're right about the present. His proactive net strategy seems to be working. He approached the net more than 40 times against Murray in the Wimby final and more than a dozen times against Djoker in the Cincy final. When it comes to playing aggressively and coming forward, he is still the best in the business, and it makes for a fascinating contest when he dares superb baseliners like Djokovic and Murray to pass him.

 

[smoledman]

Fed will consistently beat them for the next 1-2 years before the final decline begins.

 

[Mustard]

Consistently beat Nadal? When has that happened before?

 

[veroniquem]

Simple. He won't.

 

[smoledman]

Oh look the resident Fed-haters have arrived@!

 

[NadalDramaQueen]

Simple. He won't.

It looks like he won't have to beat all of them consistently. :razz:

 

[Mick3391]

Consistently beat Nadal? When has that happened before?

I never said it happened.

What I'm trying to say is that Fed started as a serve and volleyer, then incorporated Baseliner play, but now is playing a hybrid Baseline S&V game.

Those experts and I think, I HOPE, that will be the difference so that he can beat them consistantly and be dominant again like in '05. Their theory is that he wasn't prepared for GREAT baseliners like Nadal and Djok, but now, finally he's adapting.

Agassi played well when he was 35, I mean no one knows but guys really do age slower these days, my hope is that he can reclaim his '05 form and be dominant again. I'm 38 and mentally I feel the same, but I'm not, when I'm done playing I'm wipped out, over the last 4 months I've pulled two plantaris muscles, my right arm right now is aching, weird getting older.

Perhaps just a pipe-dream of mine, but I love watching him play so much, so exciting for my son to watch. I have no interest watching the rest. I like Nadal, and I do think he's very good, but the "Other guys" are just boring to me.

 

[smoledman]

Scary thing that 17-time slam winner Federer is still getting better in the game and is motivated to win more. You can't convince me that anyone out there is MORE hungry then he is.

 

[Mick3391]

Scary thing that 17-time slam winner Federer is still getting better in the game and is motivated to win more. You can't convince me that anyone out there is MORE hungry then he is.

Yea, I think he'd play for free. Crying after losing, that's passion.

If those guys are right, and this is a new start for him, how many GS's will he end up with? US Open, Aussie, French, Wimbledon? He would FOREVER be cemeted as the best ever and give us some fun!

 

[smoledman]

Yea, I think he'd play for free. Crying after losing, that's passion.

If those guys are right, and this is a new start for him, how many GS's will he end up with? US Open, Aussie, French, Wimbledon? He would FOREVER be cemeted as the best ever and give us some fun!

Point to me someone on the ATP who is more hungry for titles then he is. Look at how Roger loaded up on his schedule earlier this season(Rotterdam, Dubai) to give himself a real shot at #1.

 

[Mick3391]

Point to me someone on the ATP who is more hungry for titles then he is. Look at how Roger loaded up on his schedule earlier this season(Rotterdam, Dubai) to give himself a real shot at #1.

I hope so, when I saw him last night, he was fast, sharp, to say "Oh he's 31 so he doesn't have it anymore", well we don't know, but it sure doesn't show.

Someone told me Nadal beat Fed often in Fed's "Prime", so his "Dry Period" might not have been age, but rather the style change those guys talked about.

 

[vamospunch]

Federer was on a huge winning streak when he played RNadal this year at the Australian Open, and Federer played aggressive and "all-court", but it only works for so long vs RNadal. RNadal gets on top after a while, because most drop-shots, RNadal runs down. And most volleys, RNadal runs down. He will get to enough to beat Federer in the end. And the more times RNadal retrieves the ball, the more pressure it puts on Federer and the finer he has to cut his shots.

 

[DeShaun]

Federer was on a huge winning streak when he played RNadal this year at the Australian Open, and Federer played aggressive and "all-court", but it only works for so long vs RNadal. RNadal gets on top after a while, because most drop-shots, RNadal runs down. And most volleys, RNadal runs down. He will get to enough to beat Federer in the end. And the more times RNadal retrieves the ball, the more pressure it puts on Federer and the finer he has to cut his shots.

This is true and Rafa normally is the better player whenever they play, except where the surface does not take spin resulting in much bounce. But I am not convinced that Rafa hasn't run out of steam--I think he is done winning majors off of clay but he may win once more at RG. . .and I also think he is serving a silent ban for having made so much noise while head of the players council, something Roger would never have been dumb enough to do.

 

[vamospunch]

This is true and Rafa normally is the better player whenever they play, except where the surface does not take spin resulting in much bounce. But I am not convinced that Rafa hasn't run out of steam--I think he is done winning majors off of clay but he may win once more at RG. . .and I also think he is serving a silent ban for having made so much noise while head of the players council, something Roger would never have been dumb enough to do.

Hoffa's syndrome is easily fixed, just by rest. From what I've read RNadal is already over it, and is training and just needs to get back in shape. Not sure how you figure that Hoffa's syndrome will stop a player from winning slams, after that player just won Roland Garros with only one lost set. So good luck with that dream. With Hoffa's syndrome out of the way, the Australian Open is a huge opportunity for RNadal. Not only that, but he hasn't had tendinitis problems this year, which I believe is the first year since 2009 that he hasn't had tendinitis issues. Hoffa's syndrome, while a problem, is far less serious than tendinitis. Worst case scenario, if Hoffa syndrome recurs, doctors say you merely need to have part of the fat removed form behind your knee to eliminate the problem for good.

 

[Mick3391]

Federer was on a huge winning streak when he played RNadal this year at the Australian Open, and Federer played aggressive and "all-court", but it only works for so long vs RNadal. RNadal gets on top after a while, because most drop-shots, RNadal runs down. And most volleys, RNadal runs down. He will get to enough to beat Federer in the end. And the more times RNadal retrieves the ball, the more pressure it puts on Federer and the finer he has to cut his shots.

I didn't know that. Those "Experts" evidently didn't either, the implication was that Fed hadn't been aggressive and going to the net in the near past (Aussie Open).

I presume you know what you are talking about, I was hoping Fed was changing his game and that would make a difference against them all.

 

[kevin_95]

To beat Nadal constantly, he'll have to play his best, and we all know nadal's game inhibits fed from playing at his very best. Djokovic and murray are possible, but improbable because fed's aging.

 

[NadalDramaQueen]

I didn't know that. Those "Experts" evidently didn't either, the implication was that Fed hadn't been aggressive and going to the net in the near past (Aussie Open).

I presume you know what you are talking about, I was hoping Fed was changing his game and that would make a difference against them all.

NSK tends to be overly dramatic, so I wouldn't take anything too seriously.

I'm not going to speculate about what is going on in Federer's head when he plays Nadal, but his tactics are usually questionable at best. He will often start off with a sound strategy and then gradually revert to "I'm Fed and I can hit the ball wherever I want and still win" mode, and the match slips away.

To beat Nadal constantly, he'll have to play his best, and we all know nadal's game inhibits fed from playing at his very best. Djokovic and murray are possible, but improbable because fed's aging.

Federer will obviously have to play well, but I think it is more important that he sticks to the tactics that have shown some success. The other component is that he must stay mentally sound and avoid the letdowns that lets Nadal back in matches.

Federer will miss one shot on an important point, and that will be it for the match. Federer will slump and Nadal will pounce based off of one missed opportunity, and it is starting to get old.

 

[vamospunch]

I can understand why others have wiped the 2012 AO semi-final from their memory. Federer up a set and still losing in 4....but Federer played with flawless tactics, and RNadal hit some of the most incredible passing shots in the history of tennis.

 

[hedera]

Nole has lost his edge, he shouldn't be a problem for Fed for a while. In the last four encounters only in Rome did Nole show decent form.

The days when Rafa could bully and scare Roger into defeat are gone for good! It's one thing when Roger feels comfortable on a surface and blasts Rafa off the court à la WTF but it's a whole different thing when he's at peace with himself and knows no one can touch him, see IW, Madrid. This has made the difference this year.

Andy is probably the only threat long term.

 

[vamospunch]

Federer's best form is the 26 matches in a row he won before the 2012 Australian Open semis. And it made no difference to RNadal.

The fact Murray threatened Federer plenty in the Wimbledon final this year, and then of course Murray thrashed Federer at Wimbledon in the Olympics. That is not the form that can beat RNadal.

 

[6-1 6-3 6-0]

Federer will never consistently beat Nadal, Djokovic or Murray.

Murray leads their H2H so Murray will beat Federer as often as Federer beats Murray.
Nadal leads their H2H so Nadal will consistently beat Federer.
Djokovic has a close H2H with Federer, but Djokovic has won 6 of the past 9 meetings, so Djokovic will beat Federer more often than Federer beating Djokovic.

 

[UKTennis]

Nole has lost his edge, he shouldn't be a problem for Fed for a while. In the last four encounters only in Rome did Nole show decent form.

The days when Rafa could bully and scare Roger into defeat are gone for good! It's one thing when Roger feels comfortable on a surface and blasts Rafa off the court à la WTF but it's a whole different thing when he's at peace with himself and knows no one can touch him, see IW, Madrid. This has made the difference this year.

Andy is probably the only threat long term.

Agree with the first part of this. Had Djokovic shown his form of last year, he would have won their encounters with out a doubt. It was such a phenomenal year however, that it's hard to see him replicate it, and puts into perspective Federer's consistent brilliance.

On your second part, I'm of the opinion that Nadal would still beat Federer in Grand Slam semi-finals/finals, thankfully for him though Nadal's body seems to be falling apart.

 

[vamospunch]

Agree with the first part of this. Had Djokovic shown his form of last year, he would have won their encounters with out a doubt. It was such a phenomenal year however, that it's hard to see him replicate it, and puts into perspective Federer's consistent brilliance.

On your second part, I'm of the opinion that Nadal would still beat Federer in Grand Slam semi-finals/finals, thankfully for him though Nadal's body seems to be falling apart.

Hoffa's syndrome isn't a body "falling apart" :lol: it doesn't even require treatment.

Federer would be far better off if RNadal was still getting tendinitis pain, because it would give Federer hope. Hoffa syndrome, is nothing. Federer has nowhere to run, unless someone else takes out RNadal, as always (or since his last win over RNadal at a slam - 2007 Wimbledon).

 

[RF-17-GOAT]

He won't, unfortunately. He will eventually fall behind in the rivalries as he ages. It is natural. I'm just hoping that he wins the important ones.

But, you're right about the present. His proactive net strategy seems to be working. He approached the net more than 40 times against Murray in the Wimby final and more than a dozen times against Djoker in the Cincy final. When it comes to playing aggressively and coming forward, he is still the best in the business, and it makes for a fascinating contest when he dares superb baseliners like Djokovic and Murray to pass him.

Sums it up.

 

[UKTennis]

Hoffa's syndrome isn't a body "falling apart" :lol: it doesn't even require treatment.

Federer would be far better off if RNadal was still getting tendinitis pain, because it would give Federer hope. Hoffa syndrome, is nothing. Federer has nowhere to run, unless someone else takes out RNadal, as always (or since his last win over RNadal at a slam - 2007 Wimbledon).

Nadal will continue to win the French Open (although Djokovic showed potential for an upset this year). But there's just no way Nadal's body will be able to last as long as Federer's has. Sure he'll be able to still play, but not at the same level of intensity and commitment.

 

[Towser83]

Federer will never consistently beat Nadal, Djokovic or Murray.

Murray leads their H2H so Murray will beat Federer as often as Federer beats Murray.
Nadal leads their H2H so Nadal will consistently beat Federer.
Djokovic has a close H2H with Federer, but Djokovic has won 6 of the past 9 meetings, so Djokovic will beat Federer more often than Federer beating Djokovic.

Federer has won 6 out of the last 9 vs Murray. And murray's lead over federer is much less than federer's over Djokovic. so that's a total logic fail based on the reasons you used.

I agree he will never dominate Nadal though, despite being the first player in world history to bagel him on grass, clay and hardcourt in a single career.

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

Hoffa's syndrome isn't a body "falling apart" :lol: it doesn't even require treatment.

Federer would be far better off if RNadal was still getting tendinitis pain, because it would give Federer hope. Hoffa syndrome, is nothing. Federer has nowhere to run, unless someone else takes out RNadal, as always (or since his last win over RNadal at a slam - 2007 Wimbledon).

Well his body fell apart according to Rafa/Uncle Toni/his doctors causing him to have those heartbreaking losses this year. They 'fed' this excuse to his sheep-like fans who accepted it without question (as usual). The fans were told his injury actually happened when he withdrew against Murray in Miami this year. Said injury didn't affect his clay court dominance which began scarcely a month later!

Now we hear it's just another 14 day recuperation-type injury (as has been in the past) & he'll be back to his normal dominating form.

Oh the drama!

 

[vamospunch]

Nadal will continue to win the French Open (although Djokovic showed potential for an upset this year). But there's just no way Nadal's body will be able to last as long as Federer's has. Sure he'll be able to still play, but not at the same level of intensity and commitment.

So they keep saying. But RNadal has won slams for 8 years in a row. That ties the record. He can extend the record to 9 years in a row, next year. If anything, RNadal is having less problems with tendinitis over the last 3 years than he did in 2009. And he doesn't have back problems, ever (unlike Federer and Murray).

 

[UKTennis]

So they keep saying. But RNadal has won slams for 8 years in a row. That ties the record. He can extend the record to 9 years in a row, next year. If anything, RNadal is having less problems with tendinitis over the last 3 years than he did in 2009. And he doesn't have back problems, ever (unlike Federer and Murray).

He's still only 26. Don't think he'll start feeling the full effects until he is around 28/29 and I do not think he will be winning or challenging for Grand Slams at 31 like Federer is today.

 

[vamospunch]

He's still only 26. Don't think he'll start feeling the full effects until he is around 28/29 and I do not think he will be winning or challenging for Grand Slams at 31 like Federer is today.

What kind of effects will he feel? His tendinitis is becoming less of a factor each year. Back problems have hurt Federer's longevity, and he's had back problems since 2004. No back problems yet for RNadal.

 

[NadalDramaQueen]

What kind of effects will he feel? His tendinitis is becoming less of a factor each year. Back problems have hurt Federer's longevity, and he's had back problems since 2004. No back problems yet for RNadal.

Back problems aren't causing RFederer to pull out of majors. RFederer is getting closer to the all time record in consecutive majors played. RNadal has just had his counter reset to zero. RNadal's counter has also been set to zero on streaks such as consecutive quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals of slams, even if we only count majors that he played, thanks to LRosol.

RNadal would kill for a back that acts up every now and then but doesn't cause him to miss majors.

Perhaps we should make a thread on how RNadal plans on consistently beating LRosol.

 

[vamospunch]

Back problems aren't causing RFederer to pull out of majors. RFederer is getting closer to the all time record in consecutive majors played. RNadal has just had his counter reset to zero. RNadal's counter has also been set to zero on streaks such as consecutive quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals of slams, even if we only count majors that he played, thanks to LRosol.

RNadal would kill for a back that acts up every now and then but doesn't cause him to miss majors.

Perhaps we should make a thread on how RNadal plans on consistently beating LRosol.

Not sure what you are asking for, RNadal made the final of 5 straight slams (before the Hoffa syndrome (which is a temporary problem, and easily fixed). Would much rather have Hoffa syndrome than a bad back which caused Federer to go on a TWO AND A HALF YEAR slam drought.

 

[NadalDramaQueen]

Not sure what you are asking for, RNadal made the final of 5 straight slams (before the Hoffa syndrome (which is a temporary problem, and easily fixed). Would much rather have Hoffa syndrome than a bad back which caused Federer to go on a TWO AND A HALF YEAR slam drought.

RNadal will find out what caused RFederer to go on a two and a half year drought when he gets a bit older.

Why so much hate for the RFed? RFederer kept RNadal's streak of winning at least one slam per year alive by preventing NDjokovic from stomping RNadal for the third consecutive clay court final in 2011. At least give him a shout out.

 

[vamospunch]

RNadal will find out what caused RFederer to go on a two and a half year drought when he gets a bit older.

Why so much hate for the RFed? RFederer kept RNadal's streak of winning at least one slam per year alive by preventing NDjokovic from stomping RNadal for the third consecutive clay court final in 2011. At least give him a shout out.

RNadal would have won that the 2011 final no matter who the opponent, out of sheer determination. RNadal's 2009 loss has given him steel resolve.

I wish RNadal got to play Djokovic in that 2011 Roland Garros final, so he could get back the psychological edge before Wimbledon 2011.

The truest favor of all at Roland Garros was RNadal leaving the door wide open for Federer to claim the Career Grand Slam which he never would have accomplished otherwise.

 

[NadalDramaQueen]

RNadal would have won that the 2011 final no matter who the opponent, out of sheer determination. RNadal's 2009 loss has given him steel resolve.

I wish RNadal got to play Djokovic in that 2011 Roland Garros final, so he could get back the psychological edge before Wimbledon 2011.

The truest favor of all at Roland Garros was RNadal leaving the door wide open for Federer to claim the Career Grand Slam which he never would have accomplished otherwise.

He may have, but we will never know, luckily for you and RNadal. :lol:

Ah yes, the regaining of the mental edge, so important for RNadal. He would have clearly won Wimbledon 2011 then, unless LRosol was in his draw.

RFederer was paying RNadal back for that favor.

 

[Jackuar]

The truest favor of all at Roland Garros was RNadal leaving the door wide open for Federer to claim the Career Grand Slam which he never would have accomplished otherwise.

Though I'm a Federer fan, I'd be lying to my conscious if I disagree here...

 

[DeShaun]

Hoffa's syndrome is easily fixed, just by rest. From what I've read RNadal is already over it, and is training and just needs to get back in shape. Not sure how you figure that Hoffa's syndrome will stop a player from winning slams, after that player just won Roland Garros with only one lost set. So good luck with that dream. With Hoffa's syndrome out of the way, the Australian Open is a huge opportunity for RNadal. Not only that, but he hasn't had tendinitis problems this year, which I believe is the first year since 2009 that he hasn't had tendinitis issues. Hoffa's syndrome, while a problem, is far less serious than tendinitis. Worst case scenario, if Hoffa syndrome recurs, doctors say you merely need to have part of the fat removed form behind your knee to eliminate the problem for good.

You must have mentioned "Hoffa" over a half-dozen times in this same thread already. If I had to take a guess, I would say that the term appears to represent some idea of great importance to your value system cohering.

To me, however, the term is just the newest in a long line of tricks used by the Nadal camp in their tireless campaign to drum up and sustain any sort of interest in Rafa even if this means just spreading disinformation about his lingering ailments. It's such old hat on them by now, that as soon as the Nadal camp says something like "Hoffa," I'm hearing "Look at me! Look at me! I want your attention! No, over here! I'm over here, not over there! Look over here at me."

They are attention seeking drama queens who, for reasons of monetary gain or brand-building/maintaining, know better than to quit feeding the narrative in which Rafa is the heavily bandaged warrior who plays through more pain than anybody else; when this claim as implied cannot even be tested scientifically, yet it appeals to his fanbase.

 

[coloskier]

Simple. He won't.

He won't have to beat Nadal. Nadals' knees will beat Nadal.