How good can you get without split stepping?
- Thread starter J011yroger
- Start date
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Yes. I dont want to repeat but since beginning of May I have won 7 tournaments and in 2 lost in the final. Only once I lost in quarterfinal but I played then with serious injury of right wrist. I couldnt hold the racket when I was forced to play serve, smash, volley and partly backhand. During last 2.5 years I have won 19 tournaments in a row in central and western Poland. What I want to say is that each activity on the court has its consequences. Good and bad. There are different techniques that are working. Even when we watch professionals we cant find two players who play in the same way. In my play stability is most important so split step cant be good. I move really well on the court so I dont need to hit the ball hard at the beginning of the rally. The longer it lasts the better for me. I try to move my opponent on the court so that he didnt have too many choices. Usually I can foresee the direction of the ball and I slowly move in that direction but I am prepared to jump in the opposite direction ( in the moment he hits the ball the weight of my body usually is transfered on my leg on the side where I predict he wants to play). So if I guess right I already am moving there but if I dont guess my weight is on the opposite leg so I am prepared to jump in the other direction. The movement of my body is fluent so stability is preserved. There is no loss of concentration.
2good4U
Professional
When you are playing a big hitter, split-stepping is essential.
But it does require diligence and determination, and lots of endurance.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
And my simple argument, unprovable, is that you'd be even better if you split stepped.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Why change something that works so well ?
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Well it depends on what you mean by working so well. If your goal in life is to only get good enough to win 4.0 level tennis (which you do by hitting very consistently and accurately rather than hitting with any pace, form or footwork), then don't change a thing. If your goal is to become the best tennis player you could possibly be, then you should be constantly searching for improvements wherever you can find them.
But I'm with you on this one thing, if you are happy and winning then you've got every right to be satisfied with where you are.
I'm more of a cost-benefit analysis guy. What is the cost for any improvement and how much benefit will it give me. If I spend the rest of my tennis years working on footwork and form rather than playing tennis matches, is that cost going to reap enough benefit in the long run. I'm 53. My parents are in their mid 70's and in nursing homes suffering from either dementia or stroke. I'm at the stage of my life I'd rather just compete for the fun of it and take whatever improvements come naturally and organically than spend my recreational hours practicing.
If I was 20 and had a lifetime of tennis ahead of me, i'd think differently.
As far as the OP's question. 4.0. Above that the pace ramps up enough that you will be at a big disadvantage without proper footwork.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Main idea in split step is to be able to go in both directions(left or right). I described above my method of achieving the same goal but without losing stability and without tiring jumping. Even when I play with guys who can serve really fast they dont have a lot of points after the serve. My method is working on high level too if I can beat 2 times in a row #64 in ITF ranking in my age category.
Dragy
Legend
What's his UTR you say?
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Two weeks ago he was #64 in ITF ranking in my category(now he is #74). He was Champion of Poland 2 years ago. This year he lost in the final. I dont know what UTR is. In Europe nobody talks about UTR.
https://www.itftennis.com/seniors/rankings/singles-rankings.aspx
Last edited:
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
He is an 8, approximately an average 4.5. would probably play #2 singles in 40+ or backup singles in 18+.
J
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
my guess between 4.0 and 4.5 unless you have some monster serve or something.
Rubens
Hall of Fame
When I was younger, I split stepped most of the time. Nowadays, with my deteriorating cardio, I'm more likely to split my shorts.
Yet, I'm doing equally well in matches because I improved my serve and my return. I completely changed my game, from a retriever to a maximizing-the-1st-shot-and-hope-for-the-best approach.
Edit: I only split step on my return of serve now.
Yet, I'm doing equally well in matches because I improved my serve and my return. I completely changed my game, from a retriever to a maximizing-the-1st-shot-and-hope-for-the-best approach.
Edit: I only split step on my return of serve now.
Last edited:
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
The shuffle w/lean is underrated here. If you can't hit leaning ... you have deformed reach.
haqq777
Legend
Had never watched Benoit Paire seriously until recently. The guy does not split step, shuffle etc. Very nonchalantly French. I mean it is absolutely completely missing from his game - not that he has exemplary footwork anyway compared to his peers. The commentators repeated that ad nauseam. He is quick and has good reach though. I guess there is hope for some of us with bad footwork after all. Now about that hair..
I find it mind numbing that some here say a split step is NOT an essential part of tennis.
Here's the sane approach. A split step is essential to playing tennis at ALL levels and should be taught and employed from day one.
The best example I can give you is watch rec players who don't split step come to net. If they keep their movement going forward as the opponent makes contact, they cannot move L or R quickly and they are also frequently late if the ball is hit directly at them. If they split step to the point where they at least get balanced and weight on the balls of their feet so they can move in any direction, they hit better volleys. The same is true for baseline play but it is easier to see the damage it causes when they don't split step at the net. I see players just butcher volleys because they run through the opponents contact and are late and off balance at contact.
I think at a minimum you must strive to get your weight balanced and in an alert position with weight forward so you can react L, R, forward or backward for every shot by your opponent. OK, if you are completely out of position and need to guess and take off running without a split step, then do it but that's an exception for what is a hopefully a rare and desperate situation. You aren't going to win a lot of matches if you are having to guess and run to one side or the other before your opponent makes contact.
But, meat and potatoes play is you must at least get balanced and ready to react when your opponent makes contact.
Here's the sane approach. A split step is essential to playing tennis at ALL levels and should be taught and employed from day one.
The best example I can give you is watch rec players who don't split step come to net. If they keep their movement going forward as the opponent makes contact, they cannot move L or R quickly and they are also frequently late if the ball is hit directly at them. If they split step to the point where they at least get balanced and weight on the balls of their feet so they can move in any direction, they hit better volleys. The same is true for baseline play but it is easier to see the damage it causes when they don't split step at the net. I see players just butcher volleys because they run through the opponents contact and are late and off balance at contact.
I think at a minimum you must strive to get your weight balanced and in an alert position with weight forward so you can react L, R, forward or backward for every shot by your opponent. OK, if you are completely out of position and need to guess and take off running without a split step, then do it but that's an exception for what is a hopefully a rare and desperate situation. You aren't going to win a lot of matches if you are having to guess and run to one side or the other before your opponent makes contact.
But, meat and potatoes play is you must at least get balanced and ready to react when your opponent makes contact.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
You are right. I dont split step and that is why since the beginning of May I have won only 8 tournaments on national level and in 2 lost in the final. Once I lost in quarterfinal but I played with injured wrist. It is the best proof that without split step there is no chance to win any important tournament. I tried to win 9 tournaments but I failed because I didnt use split step. It was not a good year. I am laughing at people who say that split step is usually a stupid waste of energy. Thanks for wise comment.
Last edited:
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
How good can an engine run without motor oil?
You're welcome everyone. Addressing dumb questions with more dumb questions since interwebsssbsbsbsbsbss was invented.
You're welcome everyone. Addressing dumb questions with more dumb questions since interwebsssbsbsbsbsbss was invented.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
How good can an airplane take flight without wings?
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
its funny. I play fetch with my dog. In anticipation of the throw she's dancing on her feet staying light, then as i rear back to release, lo and behold, she split steps! Then races after the ball. Even animals know to split step in anticipation of having to take off in one direction or another.
Now I believe many humans that say "I don't split step" actually do split step to a degree. More like a squat shuffle aberration but it serves a similar purpose. Get on the toes, get the knees bent and preload the legs. I know I don't intentionally split step but I can tell by the squeaks my shoes make on the court in anticipation of a shot that I'm preparing my legs for something. I'm just more focused on something else to really pay attention to whether I've gone through some hoppy, bouncy action. But I know I've gotten onto my toes and widened my base.
Now I believe many humans that say "I don't split step" actually do split step to a degree. More like a squat shuffle aberration but it serves a similar purpose. Get on the toes, get the knees bent and preload the legs. I know I don't intentionally split step but I can tell by the squeaks my shoes make on the court in anticipation of a shot that I'm preparing my legs for something. I'm just more focused on something else to really pay attention to whether I've gone through some hoppy, bouncy action. But I know I've gotten onto my toes and widened my base.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
You want to land *after* opponent contact. If you land before or at opponent contact, you still don't know where the ball is going. ie you have nothing to react TO. if you wait until after opponent contact, now you know where the ball is going. The faster your reaction, the sooner after opponent contact you should be landing.
Watch the video of Mike Bryan volleying: note that he lands *after* Bob contacts his GS.
Here's a good video from Ean Meyer:
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Animals know to split step because they're not burdened by information on "how to play catch better" websites. They rely on instinct.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
You won those 8 tournaments in spite of your lack of split-step, not because of it, IMO.
No one said without a split step there is no chance of winning any important tournament.
Besides, I thought it was your 2HFH that won those 8 tournaments, not the lack of a split step.
Shouldn't you be laughing at people who say the split step is fundamental? If you laugh at those who say it's a stupid waste of energy, you're laughing at your own supporters.
sredna42
Hall of Fame
Dunnoif it has been mentioned but that taiwanese female santoro, hsieh tsuwei, doesn't seem to split step much. Maybe just a little shrug step sometimes.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
So you think that two handed forehand gives me great advantage when I fight against players who use one handed forehand that even lack of split step and shortened reach is not a problem ?
Well, you most be some type of special gift to tennis who can defy the rules of physics and tennis fundamentals. But, mere mortals like the rest of us should split step and you angels from above can do whatever the heck you want.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I graduated in theoretical physics so it would be really strange if I didnt use physics in my tennis.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Slicerman
Professional
Your physics will not work in tennis because it is only theoretical, not APPLIED physics.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Theoretical physics is just physics on the high level so it is all about tennis. Most people here talk about split step as if there was not any cost of such activity. They dont seem to notice that this continuous jumping is a waste of energy and causes loss of stability. It may help if the ball is really fast and far from us but most balls are within our reach and then split step is useless.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
If you are happy with your current play level, then don't.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
If you are 300 lbs or 75 years old, do split steps really matter?
It probably matters more.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Never! We are like sharks, have to continue to move/make progress, otherwise we sink!
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Are you actually playing matches, or just rallying? Or agile as a monkey? Fabulous anticipation to boot?
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Since the beginning of May I have won 37 matches in tournaments and lost only 3. It all without split step.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Your game is better than theirs so the lack of split step isn't a factor.
There are pros and cons of a 2H stroke vs a 1H. Your FH is apparently better than your opponents'. That doesn't prove it's because it's a 2HFH. If your wrist wasn't injured, you could just as well have developed a superior FH with the traditional 1H.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
He's not defying any rules. He just happens to be better than his competition such that lack of split step isn't enough of a penalty to allow his opponents to win. If he keeps playing more advanced players, he will eventually run into a group he can't beat. Then his lack of split step will be shown as a liability.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
String theory? Entanglement? Super-luminal communication? Grand Unified Theory?
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Clay court
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
There are many elements to winning tennis. Footwork is only one. I beat lots of guys with better footwork than me because my strokes, concentration, and strategy are superior to theirs. Tennis is a total package and you can beat lots of guys while still not playing immaculate tennis. I've seen overweight slobs that would break something split stepping. They destroy people with devastating serves and forehands. Points last 3 strokes maximum.
The videos of Diamond show he has very consistent and accurate groundstrokes and a solid serve and he is reasonably fast for his age. Give him some mental toughness and he'll beat a ton of guys as his record shows. It has absolutely nothing to do with his technical prowess but purely the fact that he has natural coordination to hone his irreverent strokes into consistent accurate shots.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Tennis without split step.
It was my last practise before my last tournament. Of course I won that tournament because I like to win. It is obvious that if I win so many matches there must be something in my play what gives me great advantage. Lack of split step, shortened reach, injured wrist and other problems with my body shouldnt help but we see that this "something" is more important than those factors. I just try do control the balls as long as it is possible. I dont throw the racket at the ball. It is more fast pushing. Even in unstable positions I rarely make errors. My opponents are forced to go for winners if they want to win a rally. Even when I can hit a winner I prefer to force my opponent to run. When he cant catch a breath after fast running he gives me easy points. What is more important he is more and more tired. This strategy on clay is very effective. You can see that I almost never play with open or semi open stance. I know disadvanteges of this but neurtal position gives me greater control. Split step, open stance, laid back wrist, ...are only tools. You dont have to use all tools if one or two are enough to win. If you want to win you should have something what nobody has and you should be able to force your opponent to play what you like. I hear all the time my opponents saying after they lost match that it was their one of the worst matches. I am not surprised because I dont try to play a good match. I try to force my opponent to change his game. He should be uncomfortable all the time. It really works.
Last edited:
BallBag
Professional
Avoiding a split step to conserve energy is a solid strategy. Minimal footwork in general conserves energy and also your shoes don't get worn down as fast. Also, not hitting the ball with any topspin saves on stringing fees and if you play at night, all the non lit courts are totally empty.
tennis4me
Hall of Fame
Obviously there are examples of high level players at the Pro level who don't split step. But, the majority of players can benefit from the traditional advice of using split step as it promotes better footwork in general as well as it makes it easier to move/change direction than from stationary position.
BallBag
Professional
What player on the ATP or WTA does not split step?
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Why so many edits??
tennis4me
Hall of Fame
Maybe I'm giving too much credit to the "no split-step movement". I was going to write Hsieh Su-Wei, but after watching her video again, she did split-step although rather mildly. And she does look like she's walking flat-footed most of the time.
