How good or bad is Ruud?

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lurker2025

Professional
Ruud is a player that in my view is a rather fascinating case study of how people rate players. While the media have at times overrated him seeing him as a potential dark horse for slams due to his Grand slam final appearances, it seems that many if not most tennis fans do not rate him very highly. He is seen as the symbol of a weak era and a massive overachiever with a very limited game who would fail to make the top ten in any era aside from the 2020s. I have seen someone state the Ruud is the biggest overachiever in decades and a borderline top ten player at best. I have seen another person go further and claim that his stay in the top 10 was a rankings farce, that him reaching the top ten was a pandemic rankings fluke and that he is a top 20 player at best. This comment is very indicative of the level of hostility that Ruud inspires among some tennis fans. Ruud has three slam finals but only 6 second weeks at slams and it is often pointed out how his grand slam finals were helped by favourable draws as he struggles with top 5 players. At masters level he has a title, three finals and 9 semifinals. To me his masters semifinals are the strongest evidence that his ability is far beyond top 20 at best level, or at least far beyond top 20 at best level for this era. He has as many masters semifinals as Wawrinka and Rublev. At the Yec he has a final and two semifinals. He is also infamous for his embarassing losses against lower-ranked players. It is worth noting that at the French Open last year he could have had a chance at beating Zverev and reaching a fourth slam final had it not been for a stomach parasite as he started the match strongly, and that would have gone a long way towards silencing the criticism surrounding him. But then again you could say that he was lucky to not face a healthy Djokovic in the quarterfinals so it balances out. Since his parasite his level has declined massively with the exception of his Madrid title and his form after returning from a knee injury has been very poor. He has also struggled with burnout which is something he overcame during his Madrid title run but which he is still struggling with going by his body language during his matches. Imo while It is true that his ability is very limited for a former world number 2, I think people conflate limited ability with a lack of talent with him. I think It is not a coincidence that a few people correctly predicted that he was going to be a top 10 or even top 5 player when he was coming up even as most were seeing him as a top 50 or top 20/30 mainstay. I think he is very talented but that he has failed to develop his game since his breakthrough. Which player would you compare him with in terms of level? De Minaur? Berrettini? Kachanov? Tiafoe? I actually think De Minaur is better skill wise as he has the better floor and might end up with the better longevity but that he has not surpassed Ruud career wise yet as he broke through later. Do you think It is true that Ruud would not have reached the top ten aside from the 2020s?
 
So who would you compare his level with? Tiafoe? I think his 9 masters semifinals are a pretty significant achievement which proves he has some level of ability despite what his critics claim about him.
 
He has a great forehand, but the rest of his game and mentality are not elite level. He has achieved a lot given his limitations. He often has inexcusable losses against mugs, and frequently gets humiliated when facing a top player.
 
Musterrific said:
He has a great forehand, but the rest of his game and mentality are not elite level. He has achieved a lot given his limitations. He often has inexcusable losses against mugs, and frequently gets humiliated when facing a top player.
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Aside from his match against Sinner and his Roland Garros final against Nadal, he really does not get humiliated often against top players , routined would be the correct term. Who would you compare him with in terms of level? Tiafoe? Compared to Tiafoe he has the far more accomplished career.
 
Musterrific said:
He has a great forehand, but the rest of his game and mentality are not elite level. He has achieved a lot given his limitations. He often has inexcusable losses against mugs, and frequently gets humiliated when facing a top player.
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I agree that his mentality is rather questionable, I think he would be a much better player with a better mentality.
 
I think
Mainad said:
Seems to be curiously confined to clay and makes little effort on other surfaces. He's another example of a guy with Daddy issues and needs to hire a more professional coach who will help turn this around for him.
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I think he needs to act fast to steady the ship as he could end up outside of the top 20 by the end of the year if his form does not improve.
 
Cramerica said:
There's a reason they call him the gracious loser.

He doesn't have a winner's mentality. He'd gladly give you a point if you fell down just because he's being a nice guy.
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Right, I think his mentality and burnout are the main factors hindering him right now and not lack of the tools to succeed.
 
lurker2025 said:
Aside from his match against Sinner and his Roland Garros final against Nadal, he really does not get humiliated often against top players , routined would be the correct term. Who would you compare him with in terms of level? Tiafoe? Compared to Tiafoe he has the far more accomplished career.
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He's definitely a notch above Tiafoe. He's won way more titles and has had better slam runs. Not a good comparison.
 
Yes, his record at masters level is quite impressive as well with 1 title, 3 masters finals and 9 semifinals. So someone like Kachanov? Or Berrettini? Or De Minaur? I think De Minaur is likely the better player but that he does not necessarily have the better career yet.
 
Ruud has an impressive forehand, especially on clay, his issue though is that he has sucked in the biggest matches he played in.

He finally won a big title in Madrid, but Sinner and Alcaraz were both missing, and Djokovic couldn't care less about masters now. It was still a good run by him and a long overdue big title, but before that, he was like 0-7 in big finals, that is really bad.

Nice guy, sometimes a little too nice. Unfortunately he's been passed by now the elite players, and it will only get tougher. I think players like Musetti will pass him on clay by next year.
 
Yes but he only managed to string more than two wins together this season at the Dallas Open, the Madrid Open and the Rome Open and he could fall out of the top 20 by the end of the year if his form does not improve. I really do feel he could be in for a dramatic decline if he does not properly address burnout and change things with his team, which would be a shame considering that he has so many detractors among tennis fans who would feel validated by that.
 
StefanosRespecter said:
Great tennis player, not elite and will mostly likely decline from here on out.
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When you say that he is a great tennis player but not elite, do you mean that you agree with the often-repeated assertion that he would fail to make the top ten in any era aside from the 2020s and that he would cap in the top 20 or top 30 in other eras even though he has been ranked as high as number two in the world?
 
Worst ever 3+time slam finalist by some margin, lowest peak of all 2+time slam finalists by some margin as well (except Denton, who lost two finals of slam-in-name-only AO to Kriek), lowest peak of any player who made it to #2 ranking by some margin as well. Better than some one-time slam finalists though.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Worst ever 3+time slam finalist by some margin, lowest peak of all 2+time slam finalists by some margin as well (except Denton, who lost two finals of slam-in-name-only AO to Kriek), lowest peak of any player who made it to #2 ranking by some margin as well. Better than some one-time slam finalists though.
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Who is the second worst 3+ slam finalist?
Kandy has a higher peak than Ruud? :unsure:
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Worst ever 3+time slam finalist by some margin, lowest peak of all 2+time slam finalists by some margin as well (except Denton, who lost two finals of slam-in-name-only AO to Kriek), lowest peak of any player who made it to #2 ranking by some margin as well. Better than some one-time slam finalists though.
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Ruud might have made a fourth slam final though if it had not been for a stomach parasite. With that his resume and peak level would have looked a lot better. But of course you do not go anywhere with ifs and buts and that is engaging in baseless speculation like the Ruud hater who claims that Ruud would have never made the top ten if just competition in the Post-Wimbledon summer clay swing in 2021 had been better.
 
lurker2025 said:
Ruud might have made a fourth slam final though if it had not been for a stomach parasite. With that his resume and peak level would have looked a lot better. But of course you do not go anywhere with ifs and buts and that is engaging in baseless speculation like the Ruud hater who claims that Ruud would have never made the top ten if just competition in the Post-Wimbledon summer clay swing had been better.
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Ruud might have never sniffed a slam final in a properly competitive era, no? There's a long jump from that to not making top 10 though, too big a leap. He'd probably peak around #5-6 in a stronger timeframe.
 
lurker2025 said:
Ruud is a player that in my view is a rather fascinating case study of how people rate players. While the media have at times overrated him seeing him as a potential dark horse for slams due to his Grand slam final appearances, it seems that many if not most tennis fans do not rate him very highly. He is seen as the symbol of a weak era and a massive overachiever with a very limited game who would fail to make the top ten in any era aside from the 2020s. I have seen someone state the Ruud is the biggest overachiever in decades and a borderline top ten player at best. I have seen another person go further and claim that his stay in the top 10 was a rankings farce, that him reaching the top ten was a pandemic rankings fluke and that he is a top 20 player at best. This comment is very indicative of the level of hostility that Ruud inspires among some tennis fans. Ruud has three slam finals but only 6 second weeks at slams and it is often pointed out how his grand slam finals were helped by favourable draws as he struggles with top 5 players. At masters level he has a title, three finals and 9 semifinals. To me his masters semifinals are the strongest evidence that his ability is far beyond top 20 at best level, or at least far beyond top 20 at best level for this era. He has as many masters semifinals as Wawrinka and Rublev. At the Yec he has a final and two semifinals. He is also infamous for his embarassing losses against lower-ranked players. It is worth noting that at the French Open last year he could have had a chance at beating Zverev and reaching a fourth slam final had it not been for a stomach parasite as he started the match strongly, and that would have gone a long way towards silencing the criticism surrounding him. But then again you could say that he was lucky to not face a healthy Djokovic in the quarterfinals so it balances out. Since his parasite his level has declined massively with the exception of his Madrid title and his form after returning from a knee injury has been very poor. He has also struggled with burnout which is something he overcame during his Madrid title run but which he is still struggling with going by his body language during his matches. Imo while It is true that his ability is very limited for a former world number 2, I think people conflate limited ability with a lack of talent with him. I think It is not a coincidence that a few people correctly predicted that he was going to be a top 10 or even top 5 player when he was coming up even as most were seeing him as a top 50 or top 20/30 mainstay. I think he is very talented but that he has failed to develop his game since his breakthrough. Which player would you compare him with in terms of level? De Minaur? Berrettini? Kachanov? Tiafoe? I actually think De Minaur is better skill wise as he has the better floor and might end up with the better longevity but that he has not surpassed Ruud career wise yet as he broke through later. Do you think It is true that Ruud would not have reached the top ten aside from the 2020s?
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I think somewhere between De Minaur and Khachanov is about right. Taz has overachieved a bit (although not at the major level), while Khach has underachieved arguably.
 
I think a good argument could be made that Ruud would have found it hard to be a consistence presence in the top ten in the big three era but Lucas Pouille was in the top ten in the big three era so I do not think that him making the top ten would have been impossible. This Ruud hater I was talking about basically claims that Ruud would have never been able to make the top 10 in this era if competition in the Post-Wimbledon clay summer swing in 2021 had not been weakened due the pandemic and the Olympics. This ignores that Ruud made the top ten in early 2024 starting from the top 15 without any disruptions from the pandemic and the Olympics.
 
lurker2025 said:
When you say that he is a great tennis player but not elite, do you mean that you agree with the often-repeated assertion that he would fail to make the top ten in any era aside from the 2020s and that he would cap in the top 20 or top 30 in other eras even though he has been ranked as high as number two in the world?
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Solid top 20 player, was never a real threat to win a major (yes I know he was in the final of 3 of them), has had a recent backslide that elite players would not experience at his age.
 
StefanosRespecter said:
Solid top 20 player, was never a real threat to win a major (yes I know he was in the final of 3 of them), has had a recent backslide that elite players would not experience at his age.
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His 4 setter against Alcaraz was fairly competitive and the match could have gone his way had he capitalized on his set point. Also some of the greats like Borg retired early and Tsitsipas who is definitely an elite player has experienced a backslide at around the same age of Ruud. It is fine to argue that Ruud might not have been able to reach the top ten in more competitive eras but what gets me is the hate some people have for him. One of his haters claims that he would have never reached the top ten in this era had the Post-Wimbledon summer clay swing in 2021 been more competitive and portrays his Atp 250s on clay in the summer of 2021 as basically challenger level titles when those tournaments featured at least one top 20 player aside from Ruud and in a case multiple top 20 players and those players just happened to lose before meeting Ruud. Denying that someone with 9 masters semifinals has the ability to be in the top ten in the era he was a top ten player sounds just spiteful to me.
 
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Dane_is_Finnish_OJ said:
I don't see him getting back in the top 10, no.
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Could he stave off a dramatic decline if he addresses burnout and change things with this team? Because with his current form him falling off a cliff looks possible, let alone not returning to the top ten. I can see him falling out of the top 50 or even out of the top 100 if his latest trend continues.
 
Ruud is like the best " bad" player to me. Of course his ability is not the best but to have 3 slam finals even with favourable draws, a masters title, 3 masters finals, 9 masters semifinals, a Yec final and two Yec semifinals on top of several Atp 250 titles and an Atp 500 title says only positive things about his career.
 
Hitman said:
Ruud has an impressive forehand, especially on clay, his issue though is that he has sucked in the biggest matches he played in.

He finally won a big title in Madrid, but Sinner and Alcaraz were both missing, and Djokovic couldn't care less about masters now. It was still a good run by him and a long overdue big title, but before that, he was like 0-7 in big finals, that is really bad.

Nice guy, sometimes a little too nice. Unfortunately he's been passed by now the elite players, and it will only get tougher. I think players like Musetti will pass him on clay by next year.
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You think he could have done better if he did changes in his staff (coach etc), or you think he has pretty much maxed his potential?

In Norway the view of him is pretty split. Typical norwegian culture is a bit like "its more important to be a nice guy than to win" and every time he loses people say "hang in there, youre a great guy, you will get them next time! Youve had a great career". Djokovic is as anti-norwegian as it gets, with racket smashing, shirt tearing etc (i think its a bit cool :cool:) Then you have a growing number of "atypical" norwegians who are fed up with the typical norwegian culture. They make comments like "yet another loss as expected, maybe make some changes?" etc.
 
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Jonas78 said:
You think he could have done better if he did changes in his staff (coach etc), or you think he has pretty much maxed his potential?
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I mean, he still has chances to turn it around if he shakes things up but he needs to act fast as It could become a long term dramatic decline otherwise. Like I said I think he is very talented. He played a great match against Draper in the Madrid final and some people predicted that he was going to be a top ten player when he was coming up even as most thought he had a much lower ceiling.
 
lurker2025 said:
I mean, he still has chances to turn it around if he shakes things up but he needs to act fast as It could become a long term dramatic decline otherwise. Like I said I think he is very talented. He played a great match against Draper in the Madrid final and some people predicted that he was going to be a top ten player when he was coming up even as most thought he had a much lower ceiling.
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Yeah I edited my last post and made it longer. Sometimes i wonder if it would be good for him to get angry and smash a racket and make some noise inside the team. But maybe this is as good as he can get? I dont know really. Is 0-7 in big finals a sign of bad mental skills or that you shouldnt be in the final in the first place? Some of the final losses were pretty rough beatdowns.
 
Jonas78 said:
You think he could have done better if he did changes in his staff (coach etc), or you think he has pretty much maxed his potential?

In Norway the view of him is pretty split. Typical norwegian culture is a bit like "its more important to be a nice guy than to win" and every time he loses people say "hang in there, youre a great guy, you will get them next time! Youve had a great career". Djokovic is as anti-norwegian as it gets, with racket smashing, shirt tearing etc (i think its a bit cool :cool:) Then you have a growing number of "atypical" norwegians who are fed up with the typical norwegian culture. They make comments like "yet another loss as expected, maybe make some changes?" etc.
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You have to have a bit of a killer edge.
 
He played really well in last years' RG, but got a stomach virus and finished the match with a pale, sweat dripping face. After that, is had been a very rough ride with lots of injuries and troubles. Making your way up the rankings is hard - and staying there is even harder. Ruud needs to find back to his more offensive style or he is dead in the water now that the 00 guys are outplaying the 90s guys. His physicality, movement and mentality is good enough - but he needs confidence to reach his top level again on a more consistent basis. Needs to get more connected with his feelings, perhaps? Overall, he has always looked more like a 10-20 guy than a top 5 guy.
 
Af
Jonas78 said:
Yeah I edited my last post and made it longer. Sometimes i wonder if it would be good for him to get angry and smash a racket and make some noise inside the team. But maybe this is as good as he can get? I dont know really. Is 0-7 in big finals a sign of bad mental skills or that you shouldnt be in the final in the first place? Some of the final losses were pretty rough beatdowns.
[/QUOTE/
Against Nadal in the 2022 Roland Garros final he was humiliated and against Tsitsipas in the Monte Carlos final in 2024 he was soundly defeated but aside from that his losses in finals have not been too embarassing. His losses against lower-ranked players have been more damaging to his reputation imo.
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Hitman said:
Yes, its about having that killer edge on court. And Sinner is the perfect example.
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Lately Ruud's body language in matches where he struggles looks very bad. He looks like he is still dealing with burnout. He found his fire again in Madrid but that seems to have been more of a temporary thing.
 
lurker2025 said:
Lately Ruud's body language in matches where he struggles looks very bad. He looks like he is still dealing with burnout. He found his fire again in Madrid but that seems to have been more of a temporary thing.
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Didn't get injured at RG, then skipped Wimbledon?

I think he is in a bit of a funk right now, grinding the tyres just not going anywhere.

The Madrid win was one of his best ever performances, so the game is there, but I think mentally he probably needs a break.
 
Hitman said:
Didn't get injured at RG, then skipped Wimbledon?

I think he is in a bit of a funk right now, grinding the tyres just not going anywhere.

The Madrid win was one of his best ever performances, so the game is there, but I think mentally he probably needs a break.
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Yes, he had a lingering knee injury during the clay season that caught up with him at Roland Garros and he skipped Wimbledon. Madrid seems more an exception to the rule for him as he has struggled since having a stomach parasite last year. So do you think he should take a mental health break? Mental coaching helped him in Madrid but not aside from that and his injury break did not seem to help him
 
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looks a clay specialist to me. if he can keep playing semi at fo, i will rate him even higher than z and all others in shxt era. at least he shows competitveness in one slam, rather than those only getting into semi coz every one else is just worse.
 
lurker2025 said:
Yes, he had a lingering knee injury during the clay season that caught up with him at Roland Garros and he skipped Wimbledon. Madrid seems more an exception to the rule for him as he has struggled since having a stomach parasite last year. So do you think he should take a mental health break? Mental coaching helped him in Madrid but not aside from that and his injury break did not seem to help him
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He first of all needs to gain his mental clarity again. The guy is still very much in his physical prime, and he hasn't forgotten how to hit those massive forehands. Its about the mindset with him.

I don't think he will ever reach the heights of 2022-2023, those days are gone, but he can keep himself in the mix and make deep runs, and maybe win the occasional big title. His 1-7 finals record certainly didn't help him.
 
Mainad said:
Seems to be curiously confined to clay and makes little effort on other surfaces. He's another example of a guy with Daddy issues and needs to hire a more professional coach who will help turn this around for him.
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Daddy issues, yes. Another coach, yes - but it needs more than a change in the coaching team to really make a step forward. In need of professional help to address this, probably. Just look what Tsits is going through...
 
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