How good should you be to play in college?

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by Matthew Lee, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. Matthew Lee

    Matthew Lee Semi-Pro

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    I'm asking this question not because I'm stupid, but because I'm really stupid. In another thread, I ranted about sandbagging from five to seven very good players in a 3.4 or below tournament. The team completely destroyed our opponents, but I wasn't there to celebrate. I had already quit beforehand due to some problems.

    Now, there was this "friend" who had invited ALL of the people above 3.4, including myself. She rated herself as a junior 2.9, but in my opinion she plays, at best, a 2.5. On an average day she would be a 2.0, and on bad days she could go below even THAT.

    What pisses me off is that this person thinks she can so easily make varsity, and even make her way onto the college teams. She said to me that she thinks she can get into D3 colleges with the help of a little tournament play.

    I won't give her name just to respect her privacy, but I will say that she taps every single serve in, doesn't know how to slice, needs to work on EVERY single fore/backhand shot, volleys terribly, and has abysmal footwork. Plus, she played in one unranked tournament for her own individual self, and lost both. Note that this tournament was Level 7 in a nutshell.

    Can she make it to college? I'm pretty sure she can't, but please, if it has been done before, do enlighten me.
     
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  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    That would be at least 4.5+ to even try out for a good team. Good Juniors at 16 are already at this level. The range is actually pretty wide because some of the smaller D2/D3 could be as low as 4.0. If she is a 3.5, the probability exists that she could make a team, just not a very high probability.
     
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  3. tennisjunky

    tennisjunky New User

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    Ok, I'll take a stab at this.
    First this is very speculative and subjective.

    I would recommend visiting or viewing some D3 matches (maybe even online) or other collegiate competition and just compare the matches with this person.
    You just never know.... maybe this person is a great competitor that knows how to win with an unbelievable un-orthodoxed game. Looks bad to watch but she wins.

    The reason I say this is experience.
    Many years back I hit with a small D1 universities girls team.
    In USTA ranking terms (as this is many years back), I was probably a strong 4.5, a girl I hit with, I thought originally by watching her was a weak 4.0. But once we played..... I found myself in constant defense and barely eking out wins.
    She was the female version of Brad Gilbert!!!
    But that is just one old example.
     
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  4. Matthew Lee

    Matthew Lee Semi-Pro

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    I think I should elaborate a bit more on this. She also has no athleticism whatosever. I improved more than her in two weeks than she's done in two years. Also, her competitiveness is only bad calls and yelling "It's my call, I want to go home so don't argue with me!". Plus, she's nowhere near 4.0, not even close to 3.0. She thinks she can "improve" by getting a decent coach and playing tournaments, but in my opinion if she can't get better a single bit after two years, there's just no getting out of there.
     
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  5. wings56

    wings56 Hall of Fame

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    Are you talking about USTA ratings or LTA ratings or what?
     
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  6. MarTennis

    MarTennis Semi-Pro

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    She can play division 3 tennis as long as it is a mediocre or bad team. Sad but true.

    Sent from my Z955A using Tapatalk
     
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  7. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    I friend of mine played against some D3 colleges last year that were absolutely horrible, one in LA had a woman who had never played tennis before that season, luckily she was a volleyball player and very athletic and she ended up being of their better players.
     
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  8. tennis4me

    tennis4me Semi-Pro

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    I agree with @esgee48 that the range is pretty wide.

    From my personal experience, I have hit and played some matches with a D2 woman, she's rated USTA 5.0. A very decent player that plays slightly better than average 4.5 men, but not high 4.5 men.

    Then, in a clinic, I was once assigned to play tiebreak points with a visiting D1 woman player from East Coast, and IMO she's more like an average 4.5 men than the previous player above. She's definitely better than 4.5 USTA-rated women, though.

    While I could keep up and had won playing against the players above, there are the other D1 players I see playing in local Open tournaments that will probably consistently bagel or breadstick me (in singles, but I don't play much singles :p). These players are generally closer to 5.5 women.

    So, the level does vary a lot. If the school is top-ranked D1, probably their players will be closer to 5.5, if low-ranked, my guess will be probably closer to 5.0 at the most.

    Since the D2 player above from a non-top-ranked school is a 5.0, my guess would be there are many 4.5+ players that can make it to D3. Not sure if a 4.0 can get to D3, though.
     
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  9. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    I would say D1 Stanford or UC Berkeley females are definitely 5.5. The females from University of San Francisco (private school) are more 4.5. There a HS female player that hits at one of our local courts and she goes toe-to-toe with 16-18 year guys that are 12 inches taller. These kids make that Bwock sound when they hit the ball; probably already 4.5-low 5.0. [They are very polite.] 3.5 rated players have few opportunities to making any team unless the entire team is composed of bad players, which is indeed possible. [Title 8]
     
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  10. Fabresque

    Fabresque Rookie

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    Most high level 16-17 year olds playing HS tennis are ranked 4.2 and above. Medium to high level are ranked 3.5 to 4.0 ish, while a medium level is ranked 3.0 to 3.5. Anything below will not cut the grade for college tennis of any level. With a 3.0 to 4.0 it's hard enough to make it in D2/3. For D1 you need to be at least a 5.0, legit no self rate crap, and you need to be real good.

    If she rates herself 2.9 years there's still hardly a shot she has of making D3 level, and if her real level is 2.5, there's no chance at all, even some Junior College teams will most likely not take her.
     
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  11. tennis4me

    tennis4me Semi-Pro

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    From a recent video of USF Dons Women's Tennis, they look more like 5.0+ -- probably not 5.5 like Florida (ranked #1) or Stanford (#2), but certainly not 4.5.

    I have not seen any 4.5 women in USTA NorCal that hits anywhere close to the USF Dons Women in the video. From just how their strokes look during match play, these USF Dons Women are definitely not a 4.5.

    In case locals in SF area don't already know, each year USF hosts a "Battle in the Bay Classic" hosted in the California Tennis Club in San Francisco. This year match is scheduled on 9/21. They started doing combined Mens & Womens recently. Colleges include: U. of Arizona, UOP, USF, UC Davis, Santa Clara, Cal Poly, Pepperdine, Boise St, USC, UCSB, Cal Berkeley, etc. More colleges participate in the Men's division than the Women's. The last time I attended, it looked like some of the higher ranked college didn't send their best players, though. Free admission.
     
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  12. MathGeek

    MathGeek Hall of Fame

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    Juniors can improve a lot in a short time with quality coaching and practice. As long as there are no scholarship aspirations, a weak female junior has a shot at walking on lots of D3 teams, and even a few D1 teams. The service academies would be her best bet for a D1 team. Lots of recruited athletes wash out because they don't meet the academic or military requirements or leave for greener pastures. The weakest female on the service academy D1 tennis teams are nowhere near what they are in the ACC or SEC.
     
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  13. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    if she is an LTA legit rated player in the 2.0's she could play at most mid D1's, seen lots of 2.4-2.5 at D1's playing middle of line-up. Take a look at some current Brits playing D1 at smaller schools or just finished. I know there is a Brit at Lipscomb, one just finished at D2, Northeastern St.
     
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  14. Matthew Lee

    Matthew Lee Semi-Pro

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    She has an Instagram video of her playing some shots. Rallies, but it shows her footwork, fore/backhand shots, and a little bit of slice. Not match play. Would this help to determine the result?
     
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  15. the green god

    the green god Professional

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    Dream crusher. Let her believe what she wants, it will get sorted out. She might even have fun trying.
     
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  16. LGQ7

    LGQ7 Rookie

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    The number of colleges รท the number of high schools = that's how good you have to be.
     
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  17. Matthew Lee

    Matthew Lee Semi-Pro

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  18. EdMcMush

    EdMcMush Semi-Pro

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    In the American Mid Atlantic region. You have some D3 schools that most of the roster never played tennis.
     
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  19. PhxRacket

    PhxRacket Professional

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    Such as?
     
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  20. EdMcMush

    EdMcMush Semi-Pro

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    well "most" is exaggerated but Rutgers Camden, the D3 junior colleges other than gloucester county and brookdale community have teams of players who dont know how to play. Rockland community college had a girl on their team. Suffolk community college number 6 had a prosthetic leg. Enough said. Neumann university doesnt have a full team, etc etc. Most of the d3 schools other than some of the top such as ursinus has a pretty poor team
     
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  21. PhxRacket

    PhxRacket Professional

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    Wow, that is surprising. I would have thought there was enough quality to go around. I guess there is little interest in d3 and juco tennis along the Atlantic?
     
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  22. EdMcMush

    EdMcMush Semi-Pro

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    well the rich private universities have good teams. But i think that one, the Northeast is very very populated and there are a lot of universities. Also alot of schools dont have large budgets for tennis. Dont get me wrong the singles 1 kids on these teams were all very very good. But the whole team itself when you get down to 3-6 , the talent was very sparse. my closest match I had at singles 5 was 6-2 6-2 and thats cause I had a toothache
     
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  23. Matthew Lee

    Matthew Lee Semi-Pro

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    How about schools specifically in California? She wants to stay local.
     
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  24. Mrs.Weasley

    Mrs.Weasley New User

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    If she has a UTR, you could use the Search feature on Universal Tennis to get a list of schools in the desired geographic area where her UTR would indicate that she would be a good fit.
     
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  25. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Because of Title IX, there are schools where females can get a tennis scholarship even if they don't play tennis. The schools have to give out enough scholarships to females to match the number of male football, basketball, baseball, etc. scholarships. There have been cases where they gave women's tennis team scholarships to men who served as practice partners for the women's team. (I don't remember if the schools got in trouble for this or it was acceptable.) Then again, I know of an excellent junior girl tennis player who wanted to go to a certain school, but they were pretty much full up on tennis scholarships, so they managed to find other scholarships to give her to get her to go to that college. My ex-wife was the top student in her graduate school, so the university gave her a scholarship for bi-lingual students even though she really didn't speak Spanish (her last name looked Spanish).
    Colleges have ways to finagle things if they want.
     
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  26. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    We tend to forget that unrealistic dreams, give value in our lives as we try to achieve them. Often those that never even came close to reality, served us very well in an entirely strange and off the wall way we never anticipated. She may learn a lot about herself and her real strengths, striving toward this delusion, or she may meet the love of her life at the next tournament when she loses in the first match.
     
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  27. tennisjon

    tennisjon Semi-Pro

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    My friend took over a D1 program that for a little bit had one person on the roster like this. She was #6 for a little bit, but he got some recruits in and won the conference. D3 in the NE though is really tough in general. I had a team 3 seasons ago that had 3 guys who played futures events. Two of them never lost a D3 match in college (except for one match when one retired with a torn ankle tendon early in first set). We weren't even regionally ranked.
     
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  28. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I played Rutgers Camden. Double bageled the #2 in 30 minutes. :p How do you know about these schools?
     
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  29. EdMcMush

    EdMcMush Semi-Pro

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    I played for gloucester county college and i was recruited to play number 1 for Rutgers Camden, but didnt get accepted into the school. If I did play number 1, I would lose 6-0 6-0 every match. I am a good number 4 for a good team. not a 1
     
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  30. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Sorry about that. You were talking about for this year? Their #1 last year wasn't too bad; he got a few games off our #1 but he was a senior.
     
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  31. EdMcMush

    EdMcMush Semi-Pro

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    yes for this year. Last year when i played at a community college, i beat their 5 6-0 6-4. but their 1,2,3,4 are all gone yeah. but yeah some d3 schools can be not very good to be nice or almost d1 material
     
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  32. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    As someone who actually plays d3 tennis, you can play on a d3 team at any level. End of story. If you want to be on a good roster then yeah you need to be 4.0-5.0, but anybody can play. Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know what the **** they're talking about.
     
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  33. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Not many D3 school in California with weak teams to be honest. There are a ton of JC's though (COS, Fresno City, etc.) and she could go for a couple of years and see how much she improves.
     
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  34. brianxhopkins

    brianxhopkins New User

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    Wow, crazy seeing my local community college mentioned... Gotta say though, the RCC tennis program is struggling as of late.
     
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  35. Matthew Lee

    Matthew Lee Semi-Pro

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    Depressing...
     
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