How has the slam (and "goat") race affected your enjoyment of tennis? And...

How has all of the (often tribalistic) GOAT talk affected your enjoyment of tennis?

  • a. Increased enjoyment

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • b. Diminished enjoyment

    Votes: 20 32.3%

  • c. No real effect - stayed the same

    Votes: 19 30.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
Seems like I posted something similar 5.5 years ago when I was new-ish here. But opinions evolve, and posters come and go as well.

My main question: Has all the GOAT talk increased or diminished your enjoyment of tennis?

I don't have an easy answer to my own question, but will say that I have been a tennis fan for a long time, among several sports that I follow.

Clearly, as a tennis fan, I was not drawn to it because I wanted to say that I was a fan of the "greatest". I love playing and following tennis, and have enjoyed a boatload of players over the years (including Raul Ramirez -- "wiki" him.) For whatever reasons we become fans, I have gravitated more to some players than others; whether this is based on playing style, personality or other factors, it's hard to always know why.

In this particular era, the GOAT talk is so prevalent and at times so heated, that it seems to detract from simply enjoying the actual tennis...which seems to be the whole point of being a fan. It also contributes to a weird all-or-nothing mentality, where we don't appreciate the careers of "non-GOAT" contenders or presumed ATGs.

So without declaring your own rankings, what do you think? Has all of the GOAT talk diminished or increased your ability to simply enjoy tennis? Or had no effect?

And secondarily, has The Big 3's collective greatness in any way spoiled tennis for you? Of course, they are all very tough acts to follow, let alone improve upon.
 
I am fan of Djokovic. He just gave so much certainty in reaching last rounds of tournaments for 12 years. I don't think it would matter if he won the goat race or not. I like consistency.

Tbh the goat race was very exaggerated with tempers high and fan bases talking nonsense for almost 15 years. Now it's better than the past. But the discourse will move to new guys vs old if not already.

I think the enjoyment stayed the same. Just give me Djokovic Nadal Roland garros matches. That is all.
 
The GOAT Race and Fan Wars have sucked all the unpredictability and fun, respectively, out of tennis.

There are currently three players who can win Slams. And it's been this way for 20 years.

While it was nice watching those guys pile up the awards, trophies, and the bases of comparison, it's also been stultifying to see generations of exciting players go without the biggest prizes, and the stuff that ppl say about the non-top-3 players is just really maddening.
 
The schlem race, GOAT race, outer space hasn’t affected my enjoyment of tennis in the slightest.

Now what has affected my enjoyment of tennis is the massively decreased level that’s been played after the Big 3 left their primes. The generations that have come after them have been arse cheeks. And the moment it looked like we finally had 2 potential ATG players after waiting for more than a decade after the last ATG cemented himself as one it turns out that 1 of those 2 players was doping.
 
I personally have very much been enjoying the last couple months without an obvious #1 (sinner). Makes the tournaments more unpredictable and fun to watch. Haven't had this much fun watching IW/Miami in years. I'm excited and hopeful to go back to a time like this before the goat race. Hopefully more players like Mensik & Draper will step up.
 
At the time it was exciting. Problem is it caused us a major hangover for everyone watching the game and there is basically nowhere to go from there except down which it has drastically since the big 3 race was over

I mean where do you from the Big 3 GOAT race? You’ll never see anything like that again and there is no recovering from it
 
Tennis has killed itself and for the fans by projecting and marketing tennis about Slam race in the past 20 years or so. Now will fans be satisfied with the players who are not winning 20 + slams ? before 2004 tennis wasn’t about slam race and even players like Agassi , Boris , Edberg , Goran had big fan base. Now what will move the tennis when there’s no slam race narrative??
 
AndrewUtz said:
I personally have very much been enjoying the last couple months without an obvious #1 (sinner). Makes the tournaments more unpredictable and fun to watch. Haven't had this much fun watching IW/Miami in years. I'm excited and hopeful to go back to a time like this before the goat race. Hopefully more players like Mensik & Draper will step up.
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IW and Miami has like 10 different winners in last 7 years. Only guy who has done both is alcaraz. Absence of sinner this year doesn't add more unpredictability tbh than it was there already. Norrie , Hurkacz , Fritz, so so many new masters winners.
 
TennisGrandpA said:
Tennis has killed itself and for the fans by projecting and marketing tennis about Slam race in the past 20 years or so. Now will fans be satisfied with the players who are not winning 20 + slams ? before 2004 tennis wasn’t about slam race and even players like Agassi , Boris , Edberg , Goran had big fan base. Now what will move the tennis when there’s no slam race narrative??
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Fully agree. I've been loving it however! Hopefully others can start to enjoy players who are just good players and not GOAT's too.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
IW and Miami has like 10 different winners in last 7 years. Only guy who has done both is alcaraz. Absence of sinner this year doesn't add more unpredictability tbh than it was there already. Norrie , Hurkacz , Fritz, so so many new masters winners.
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Of course. But it's no secret Alcaraz is less consistent than sinner. This is the kind of winners I want at GS (not specifically these guys, but the feeling that it could be anyone).
 
The only way for it to recover is for better players to come along who surpasses the big 3. 1- 2 percent chance of that happening. Who’s gonna have the skills of Federer? Who’s gonna have the determination and consistency of Djoker? Who’s gonna have the peak of Nadal? No one
 
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I think new fans will come along. It could be the fact we are still on big 3 mode.

Alcaraz and Sinner have helped a lot but now with Sinner he is obviously losing respect on here.
 
AndrewUtz said:
Of course. But it's no secret Alcaraz is less consistent than sinner. This is the kind of winners I want at GS (not specifically these guys, but the feeling that it could be anyone).
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Yes to each their own. I actually like consistency.

Djokovic went 765-108 win loss during the time he was best player in the world. I liked the certainity of him being there. When our favorites are out early on, it does feel less enjoyable.
 
The Blond Blur said:
The schlem race, GOAT race, outer space hasn’t affected my enjoyment of tennis in the slightest.

Now what has affected my enjoyment of tennis is the massively decreased level that’s been played after the Big 3 left their primes. The generations that have come after them have been arse cheeks. And the moment it looked like we finally had 2 potential ATG players after waiting for more than a decade after the last ATG cemented himself as one it turns out that 1 of those 2 players was doping.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The passing of the torch has fizzled and Djokovic has reemerged as the most important player on tour as a result.
 
Yeah it honestly kind of ruined tennis. Every single person you talk to is now fully acquainted with the tribalistic arguing and talking points and everything is building up to some larger point about how your guy is the real GOAT. It’s exhausting. But most of all I just miss the quality tennis.

My feeling now? It’s like the feeling I had when I finished the Sopranos for the first time. It was a truly amazing show but I felt empty, like “what’s next”… Still haven’t recaptured that feeling with any show.
 
Rosstour said:
He was making a general point which you unintentionally proved. He wasn't discussing any particular player but you had to make it into a Nole v Federer thing.
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Yes, let's try to keep this non-partisan.
To answer my own question, it's kind of "weird", if this makes sense.
The slam race heightened my interest a little more, but in some ways, it made it less enjoyable. I truly like all three players, and just didn't enjoy all the negativity and one-upsmanship.

As for enjoying players after them, I naturally gravitate toward Carlos's game and personality, and also appreciate how good Sinner is. I'm excited about the potential of Fonseca, and simply enjoy the game...but my interest has dropped just a little. For now.
 
RaulRamirez said:
Yes, let's try to keep this non-partisan.
To answer my own question, it's kind of "weird", if this makes sense.
The slam race heightened my interest a little more, but in some ways, it made it less enjoyable. I truly like all three players, and just didn't enjoy all the negativity and one-upsmanship.

As for enjoying players after them, I naturally gravitate toward Carlos's game and personality, and also appreciate how good Sinner is. I'm excited about the potential of Fonseca, and simply enjoy the game...but my interest has dropped just a little. For now.
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Same. Courier is still out there talking about Rafa every chance he gets. The game has not moved on.
 
I liked the GOAT race between the Big 3. It was like a long-running epic with every chapter full of drama and surprises. The amazing consistency of the Big 3 to make the semifinals of not just Slams, but other tournaments made it almost guaranteed that you would see a tussle between at least two of them in every tournament for a long time and those were always must-see entertainment.
 
socallefty said:
I liked the GOAT race between the Big 3. It was like a long-running epic with every chapter full of drama and surprises. The amazing consistency of the Big 3 to make the semifinals of not just Slams, but other tournaments made it almost guaranteed that you would see a tussle between at least two of them in every tournament for a long time and those were always must-see entertainment.
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Right. It started to get stale when it became the Big 2, and now it's just The Big One and it's even more stale.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Yes to each their own. I actually like consistency.

Djokovic went 765-108 win loss during the time he was best player in the world. I liked the certainity of him being there. When our favorites are out early on, it does feel less enjoyable.
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I agree somewhat. (I’m a big novak fan). I would like the top 10 to be far more consistent than they currently are. I’d like it if it felt like anyone in the top 10 could win a slam. One can dream! Dinner will be back and likely win Hard. We’ll have to see about RG and Wimby, they could be more fun and interesting.
 
Kralingen said:
Yeah it honestly kind of ruined tennis. Every single person you talk to is now fully acquainted with the tribalistic arguing and talking points and everything is building up to some larger point about how your guy is the real GOAT. It’s exhausting. But most of all I just miss the quality tennis.

My feeling now? It’s like the feeling I had when I finished the Sopranos for the first time. It was a truly amazing show but I felt empty, like “what’s next”… Still haven’t recaptured that feeling with any show.
Click to expand...

Currently watching The Wire. I think I'll try the Sopranos next.
 
Rosstour said:
Yeah. The passing of the torch has fizzled and Djokovic has reemerged as the most important player on tour as a result.
Click to expand...
I’d say he’s the most popular player on tour (which blows the whole he’s persecuted because he’s Serbian narrative out of the water) but he’s not the most important. That role has been filled by Sincaraz given that’s the marquee matchup everyone wants to see. Joker just isn’t capable of (or at least hasn’t produced it in a long time) playing tennis at a high enough level to win the biggest tournaments anymore. The problem is the new best rivalry is marred by Carl’s inconsistency and The Sinner’s doping ban.
 
The Blond Blur said:
I’d say he’s the most popular player on tour (which blows the whole he’s persecuted because he’s Serbian narrative out of the water) but he’s not the most important. That role has been filled by Sincaraz given that’s the marquee matchup everyone wants to see. Joker just isn’t capable of (or at least hasn’t produced it in a long time) playing tennis at a high enough level to win the biggest tournaments anymore. The problem is the new best rivalry is marred by Carl’s inconsistency and The Sinner’s doping ban.
Click to expand...

Right, and Carlos' inconsistency is a direct product of his struggles against Djokovic. That exposed the cracks and he just isn't the same player he was a year or two ago. Djoko took his soul at the Olympics

Djoko maybe can't beat everyone now but he can spoil their quests. And that's what he's done to both Carlos and Sinner

And so by default, he's getting all the shine again.
 
The Blond Blur said:
I’d say he’s the most popular player on tour (which blows the whole he’s persecuted because he’s Serbian narrative out of the water) but he’s not the most important. That role has been filled by Sincaraz given that’s the marquee matchup everyone wants to see. Joker just isn’t capable of (or at least hasn’t produced it in a long time) playing tennis at a high enough level to win the biggest tournaments anymore. The problem is the new best rivalry is marred by Carl’s inconsistency and The Sinner’s doping ban.
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The men's tour is in a slight valley now, but even if Sinner were out there, and Carlos was not slumping, would it still be difficult to get as excited about the post-Big 3 landscape?

I tend to think that any Sinner controversy will blow over soon. He's just not a controversial person whatsoever (otherwise), and if Alcaraz raises his level again and they're both at the very top, joined by either Novak's final flurry or one other player to hit close to their level, the tour will be okay. I just don't want people to diminish them if they can't win 15 or 20 slams apiece. It's just not as easy as TheBig3 made it look.
 
The worst thing that could have happened to tennis is Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.

They ruined it. And it will take generations for the damage to be undone.

It was all a perfect storm, social media and tennis forums coming into existence at the exact time that these three decided to make a mockery of the sport, resulting in non stop arguing, bickering, fights, a lot of butt hurt, and immense bitterness which was certainly going to continue well past the slam GOAT race ending back in 2023, because two of the three were not going to be walking away with that title....that has now lead to even more resentment, nowadays no one is really any good, everyone wants the old days back, because that slam race was a way of life for so many.

Many cannot move on, because they simply cannot let go of their favorite, just way too much unhealthy emotional investment.

We are now in the wastelands of Mad Max, civilization as we know it is over.
 
Rosstour said:
Right, and Carlos' inconsistency is a direct product of his struggles against Djokovic. That exposed the cracks and he just isn't the same player he was a year or two ago. Djoko took his soul at the Olympics

Djoko maybe can't beat everyone now but he can spoil their quests. And that's what he's done to both Carlos and Sinner

And so by default, he's getting all the shine again.
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Eh, Carl was struggling well before the Olympics loss. Post Wimby 23 he had several disappointing losses the rest of the year. Zedrot destroyed him at the AO 24. He had another great IW, but had no business losing to Grigor in Miami. After that he dealt with a forearm/elbow injury most of the CC season. He did win the Channel schlem, but honestly his level of play was very up and down. It’s just the field was even worse. And he did beat Joker in straight sets in Wimby 24. His biggest issue is that he’s always been inconsistent and is very dependent on the conditions he plays in. There’s a reason IW and Madrid are his 2 best tournaments. He also hasn’t improved upon any of his weaknesses and his game has stagnated (or in the case of his FH regressed) as a result.

The last time Joker beat The Sinner was the YEC 23 F.

Definitely wouldn’t say Joker’s getting all the shine. He made the Miami F on the back of a cream puff draw and still couldn’t get the job done. I wouldn’t say he’s played much of a spoiler role. At least recently.
 
Hitman said:
The worst thing that could have happened to tennis is Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.

They ruined it. And it will take generations for the damage to be undone.

It was all a perfect storm, social media and tennis forums coming into existence at the exact time that these three decided to make a mockery of the sport, resulting in non stop arguing, bickering, fights, a lot of butt hurt, and immense bitterness which was certainly going to continue well past the slam GOAT race ending back in 2023, because two of the three were not going to be walking away with that title....that has now lead to even more resentment, nowadays no one is really any good, everyone wants the old days back, because that slam race was a way of life for so many.

Many cannot move on, because they simply cannot let go of their favorite, just way too much unhealthy emotional investment.

We are now in the wastelands of Mad Max, civilization as we know it is over.
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This is pretty nihilistic and unnecessary view lol.

New generation fans doesn't give 2 damns about the old guard. They are all safe. It's just the big 3 fans who will suffer the most so from pov of long term fan like you , it should make zero difference.

Let some miscreants cry foul.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
This is pretty nihilistic and unnecessary view lol.

New generation fans doesn't give 2 damns about the old guard. They are all safe. It's just the big 3 fans who will suffer the most so from pov of long term fan like you , it should make zero difference.

Let some miscreants cry foul.
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Have you seen how often basketball fans/podcasters/journalists talk about Jordan? It's all the freaking time. Especially in the context of LeBron
 
Rosstour said:
Have you seen how often basketball fans/podcasters/journalists talk about Jordan? It's all the freaking time. Especially in the context of LeBron
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Not really seen it but I only follow NBA casually. None of the pros today didn't play during Jordan's time. It's only Jordan vs LeBron debate where we are mentioning Jordan I think. No one even looks for next Jordan or something. The game is very different today.
 
RaulRamirez said:
The men's tour is in a slight valley now, but even if Sinner were out there, and Carlos was not slumping, would it still be difficult to get as excited about the post-Big 3 landscape?

I tend to think that any Sinner controversy will blow over soon. He's just not a controversial person whatsoever (otherwise), and if Alcaraz raises his level again and they're both at the very top, joined by either Novak's final flurry or one other player to hit close to their level, the tour will be okay. I just don't want people to diminish them if they can't win 15 or 20 slams apiece. It's just not as easy as TheBig3 made it look.
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It definitely wouldn’t have the same highs. The Big 3 were just far more consistent. So, they ended up playing each other far more frequently, and they were all capable of playing at a much higher level than anyone who’s come after them. While tennis is less exciting without the Big 3 I think it would have recovered much quicker if ancient versions of the Big 3 never continued to dominate just as much (or in Joker’s case even more) compared to when they were in their primes. That’s where the terrible gens that came after them really hurt the game. Instead of a new Gen of ATG players reaching their prime to push them out, we got arguably the 2 worst generations of players back to back that allowed much weaker versions of the Big 3 to keep winning. It’s just that the level of tennis the old Big 3 produced was obviously worse compared to their heyday.

The comparisons with the Big 3 were going to be there regardless just given that they’re the first 2 players that have any chance of becoming ATGs. And tbf fans of Sincaraz brought it on themselves by actually making the comparisons first. Now I won’t hold it against them if and most likely when they fall short. I actually blame #LostGen and #NextGen far more for the state of tennis that led to CIE stats.
 
All this bitterness and intense fan wars seem to be on online forums like this. In the real world or at least in my real life, everyone really appreciated the tennis level of the Big 3 and looked forward to their clashes. I don’t think the GOAT race was uppermost in the minds of people I know at my club, but more the prospect of watching great tennis in three contrasting styles for two decades. The time spent by a few dedicated posters on here to defend the player they like every day in multiple threads rehashing the same arguments over and over has always puzzled me and in particular the level of vitriol.

The people I know likely skew older than the Big 3 ‘fanatics’ on TTW as blind idol worship of sports stars is more common amongst young people and kids. We all got to appreciate the Big 3 in our 30s/40s or older and there were many generations of players we appreciated before that also - we know that stars come and go. Also everyone I know at my club that I discuss tennis with plays a lot of tennis and so their appreciation of the level of play might be more than for those who don’t play the sport and treat it only as TV entertainment. We all continue to watch a lot of tennis and my club even organizes packed group tours on buses every year to go to IW which is one of the highlight socials of the year - no one is complaining about the caliber of today’s players and if we complain, it is that the tournament is too popular and too crowded increasingly even on weekdays in the last couple of years.

Indian Wells doesn’t seem like an anomaly either in terms of being a popular tournament as more tournaments/exhibitions/ideas for alternate tours (UTS, Saudi-backed) are popping up, record attendance seems reported every year by tournaments in countries with a tennis history, prize money keeps going up indicating TV contracts are healthy etc.
 
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It doesn't bother me. Debates are a part of many areas of life from sports to politics to TV shows, better cities, best restaurants etc. It's a natural human condition to debate, compare etc. so The Big 3 debate doesn't bother me but what bothers me more in a tennis context is those who throw out MUG for anybody who doesn't live up to Big 3 status like those calling Alcaraz a big disappointment or on a lesser scale calling second tier players from the Big 3 era bums, mental midgets, pigeons because they couldn't break through against the best players of all time.

Also, not everybody chokes away matches when they lose, sometimes it's ok to say that the winner earns it. Sometimes there are true chokes like Federer at the 2011 US Open against Djokovic for instance but sometimes it's ok to credit an opponent, not everything is a choke, a massive fail etc.
That's my pet peave here, not The Big 3 debate especially since there are sound arguments to be made for all sides with players that dominant.
 
NYTennisfan said:
Also, not everybody chokes away matches when they lose, sometimes it's ok to say that the winner earns it. Sometimes there are true chokes like Federer at the 2011 US Open against Djokovic for instance but sometimes it's ok to credit an opponent, not everything is a choke, a massive fail etc.
Click to expand...

Agree. I can't stand this attitude that everyone is a mug outside of Djoko and Sinner.
 
GoatNo1 said:
nole fan so i had enjoyed it!
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Nole has complete hero's arch. Fed fans can call me one dimensional or anything but I remember everything. How he was not considered equal of the fedal like they were some gods. In the end you only respect power, so he had to have numbers to be considered their equal. Certainly.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Nole has complete hero's arch. Fed fans can call me one dimensional or anything but I remember everything. How he was not considered equal of the fedal like they were some gods. In the end you only respect power, so he had to have numbers to be considered their equal. Certainly.
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Been a fan of him since I first got into tennis in 2018 before his comeback. I remember everyone saying his slam winning days were likely behind him!
 
socallefty said:
All this bitterness and intense fan wars seem to be on online forums like this. In the real world or at least in my real life, everyone really appreciated the tennis level of the Big 3 and looked forward to their clashes. I don’t think the GOAT race was uppermost in the minds of people I know at my club, but more the prospect of watching great tennis in three contrasting styles for two decades. The time spent by a few dedicated posters on here to defend the player they like every day in multiple threads hashing over the same arguments over and over has always puzzled me and in particular the vitriol.

The people I know likely skew older than the Big 3 ‘fanatics’ on TTW as blind idol worship of sports stars is more common amongst young people and kids. We all got to appreciate the Big 3 in our 30s/40s or older and there were many generations of players we appreciated before that also - we know that stars come and go. Also everyone I know at my club that I discuss tennis with plays a lot of tennis and so their appreciation of the level of play might be more than for those who don’t play the sport and treat it only as TV entertainment. We all continue to watch a lot of tennis and my club even organizes packed group tours on buses every year to go to IW which is one of the highlight socials of the year - no one is complaining about the caliber of today’s players and if we complain, it is that the tournament is too popular and too crowded increasingly even on weekdays in the last couple of years.
Click to expand...
In real life, it seems that all the tennis fans I know pretty much all gravitate toward Federer. Not necessarily a bad thing at all; it's easy to love Roger. A few of them are tennis fans who understand the tour and many of the others are general sports fans who dabble in tennis but don't get too geeked up on it like most of us do.
 
RaulRamirez said:
In real life, it seems that all the tennis fans I know pretty much all gravitate toward Federer. Not necessarily a bad thing at all; it's easy to love Roger. A few of them are tennis fans who understand the tour and many of the others are general sports fans who dabble in tennis but don't get too geeked up on it like most of us do.
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What is the age of the fans you know
 
The biggest problem for the GOAT race is that it's established unrealistic expectations for the rest of the tour. How many times have you seen people moan over there not being consistently great people and they don't realize that's how the tour generally is. Not that I mean obviously having great players is great but people who worry about such things need to pump the brakes and realize the Big 3 is an anomaly and should not be the expectation of your favorite player lol
 
nolefam_2024 said:
What is the age of the fans you know
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Well, it does skew older, reflecting my own age. More in the 50-65 range....hey, I'm older than most here.
But my Sunday softball team has a large age range: say, 20-65, but the younger ones, to generalize, follow many sports but don't follow tennis very closely.
 
DjokoFan1987 said:
The biggest problem for the GOAT race is that it's established unrealistic expectations for the rest of the tour. How many times have you seen people moan over there not being consistently great people and they don't realize that's how the tour generally is. Not that I mean obviously having great players is great but people who worry about such things need to pump the brakes and realize the Big 3 is an anomaly and should not be the expectation of your favorite player lol
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Right. And it's no longer enough to just like the way someone plays. I get mocked so much for liking Musetti and Shapo because they've "never done anything"

But those same detractors don't even respect what Alcaraz has done. It's all about Novak and Sinner for those types
 
DjokoFan1987 said:
The biggest problem for the GOAT race is that it's established unrealistic expectations for the rest of the tour. How many times have you seen people moan over there not being consistently great people and they don't realize that's how the tour generally is. Not that I mean obviously having great players is great but people who worry about such things need to pump the brakes and realize the Big 3 is an anomaly and should not be the expectation of your favorite player lol
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AND

Even if they are NOT anomaly, at least give 10 years before you can compare their entire career to current greats.. even if sinner is twice the player big 3 were, there are just 4 slams a year. Which means he would need at least a decade to cross them isn't it.

Stupid fans compare players whose career just started with big 3 who are almost all out and then say they are nothing. No, the fans who say such things are nothing.
 
RaulRamirez said:
In real life, it seems that all the tennis fans I know pretty much all gravitate toward Federer. Not necessarily a bad thing at all; it's easy to love Roger. A few of them are tennis fans who understand the tour and many of the others are general sports fans who dabble in tennis but don't get too geeked up on it like most of us do.
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In my experience, older and more conservative people gravitated to Federer, those who are more flamboyant or outgoing in their style plus a higher % of women seemed to like Nadal and younger generations who started playing tennis in the last 15 years were likely to like Djokovic best as he was #1 mostly in those years. Djokovic also seemed to attract more rebellious people with less mainstream views in other aspects of their life. But a large number of people I know are like me and are not just fans of one player, but admire the tennis of all of them and had mild likes/dislikes of their behavior/personalities - it is nothing like the love/hate fanaticism on here.

I think those who spent a lot of years on here are so entrenched in their fandom of one of the players and the daily wars here that they’ve forgotten what the outside world is like in terms of appreciation of the sport.
 
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