How head heavy/light are pros' racquets

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
All "players" racquets, at least by popular definition, are balanced head light. Look at any of the "players" frames on TW and not a one is head heavy and most are considerably headlight.

But, pros, especially men, tend to customize a lot and add a lot of weight. So, I'm wondering what the balance actually is for the pros. Granted, they could add weight on the head and the throat/bottom to maintain the same balance.

Does anyone know?
 

jura

Professional
The balance is not the important thing. The swingweight is what "makes the racket". At first you need a racket with the swingweight that fits your feeling. And then you decide, how much weight you put into the grip that it fits your game - the balance is only the result of this "evolution".
 

grizzly4life

Professional
there was a thread on player's racquets before...... and i'm sorry, i don't know who to credit...

but i did my own excel work, and here's what i came up with for balance. and the weight is the preceding #....

so david nestor (i know it's daniel, but original source said david) plays with 375 gram racquet and 16 points head-light

NESTOR DAVID 375 16
Soderling, Robi 364 10
Blake, James (U 364 13
Gaudio, Gaston 363 11
Schalken, Sjeng 360 19
ULLYETT KEVIN 357 17
Luczak, Peter ( 355 14
Canas, Guillerm 355 14
BRIAN MIKE 354 17
BRIAN BOB 354 16
WOODBRIDGE TODD 353 13
Mirnyi, Max (BL 352 12
Sargsian, Sargi 352 12
Rusedski, Greg 350 11
Karlovic, Ivo ( 350 8
Nieminen, Jarkk 350 16
Ancic, Mario (C 350 13
Bjorkman, Jonas 349 14
Spadea, Vincent 349 13
BHUPATHI MAHESH 348 11
Stepanek, Radek 348 13
Wawrinka, Stani 348 9
Grosjean, Sebas 348 12
Tsonga, Jo-Wilf 347 15
Kuerten, Gustav 347 7
Burgsmuller, La 346 14
Gonzalez, Ferna 346 16
Monaco, Juan (A 346 10
Massu, Nicolas 345 12
Agassi, Andre ( 343 7
Tursunov, Dmitr 343 12
Kiefer, Nicolas 343 6
Volandri, Filip 343 11
Ginepri, Robby 342 11
Carlsen, Kennet 342 11
DEVILDER NICOLA 340 12
Saulnier, Cyril 340 12
Sanchez, David 340 9
Mahut, Nicolas 339 10
Wessels, Peter 339 12
Robredo, Tommy 339 9
Horna, Luis (PE 339 12
Behrend, Tomas 338 14
Benneteau, Juli 338 7
Haehnel, Jerome 338 9
ZIMONJIC NENAD 338 15
KNOWLE JULIAN 337 5
SQUILLARI FRANC 337 10
Serra, Florent 336 11
BLACK WAYNE 336 13
Srichaphan, Par 336 13
Beck, Karol (SV 336 11
Sluiter, Raemon 335 9
Vliegen, Kristo 335 11
Johansson, Thom 333 11
Mathieu, Paul-H 332 7
Garcia-Lopez Gu 332 9
Ferrer, David ( 332 10
Acasuso, Jose ( 332 10
Koubek, Stefan 330 6
DI PASQUALE ARN 329 12
Saretta, Flavio 329 10
Sanguinetti, Da 327 11
Llodra, Michael 326 0
Tipsarevic, Jan 326 10
Rochus, Olivier 325 12
Patience, Olivi 324 3
Djokovic, Novak 324 10
Andreev, Igor ( 323 8
ROGER-VASSELIN 322 9
Nadal, Rafael ( 321 7
Mantilla, Felix 318 4
Ventura, Santia 318 6
Davydenko, Niko 317 9
Martin, Alberto 316 10
Melzer, Jurgen 316 14
Malisse, Xavier 315 14
Clément, Arnaud 312 12
Arthurs, Wayne 308 9
Moya, Carlos (E 307 -8

as travelrajm (?name) has pointed out, the doubles specialists (bryans, nestor and others) and hard flatter hitters (gonzo, blake, tursunov) seem to play heavier, HL racquets....... moya is a huge outlier, such a light racquet with 7 points head-heavy (wonder if it's correct).... i thought wayne arthurs was a bit of an S/V guy, but his specs are down with the clay court guys (lighter, HH). i could be wrong about arthurs (maybe just assumed because he's australian)

i don't see roddick, federer or safin... anyone know that data??

if it's important to you, i can probably dig out the original thread with the raw data.

LASTLY, i assume my calculations were correct (1/8 inch = 1 point HL/HH). does some guys really play more than 15 points HL??
 
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tennissavy

Hall of Fame
The balance is not the important thing. The swingweight is what "makes the racket". At first you need a racket with the swingweight that fits your feeling. And then you decide, how much weight you put into the grip that it fits your game - the balance is only the result of this "evolution".

Well, I spoke to Mashona Washington about her o3 white and it's customization. She told me that the most important thing was the balance and she should know.
 

grizzly4life

Professional
aren't swingweight, weight and balance close to being a 3-way equation? i.e. if you know two, you can come close on the 3rd (i guess the racquet length is the other obvious variable..

seems like lighter racquets tend to be HH, heavy racquets tend to be HL. if you make your heavy racquet HH, then it will hard to get racquet speed and the ball will go long alot if you can get racquet speed.
 
P

PrestigeClassic

Guest
Well, I spoke to Mashona Washington about her o3 white and it's customization. She told me that the most important thing was the balance and she should know.

Yes, various players regard balance as the most important spec, or swingweight, or another spec.
 

grizzly4life

Professional
are those specs for strung or unstrung frames?

i think it's strung (basically measured at a tournament i believe)..

anyhow, the thread (or a similar one) that i got it from is live on the first page. and it has more stuff like grip size and stinging info, so you can check for yourself on the strung/unstrung
 

ShcMad

Hall of Fame
there was a thread on player's racquets before...... and i'm sorry, i don't know who to credit...

but i did my own excel work, and here's what i came up with for balance. and the weight is the preceding #....

so david nestor (i know it's daniel, but original source said david) plays with 375 gram racquet and 16 points head-light

NESTOR DAVID 375 16
Soderling, Robi 364 10
Blake, James (U 364 13
Gaudio, Gaston 363 11
Schalken, Sjeng 360 19
ULLYETT KEVIN 357 17
Luczak, Peter ( 355 14
Canas, Guillerm 355 14
BRIAN MIKE 354 17
BRIAN BOB 354 16
WOODBRIDGE TODD 353 13
Mirnyi, Max (BL 352 12
Sargsian, Sargi 352 12
Rusedski, Greg 350 11
Karlovic, Ivo ( 350 8
Nieminen, Jarkk 350 16
Ancic, Mario (C 350 13
Bjorkman, Jonas 349 14
Spadea, Vincent 349 13
BHUPATHI MAHESH 348 11
Stepanek, Radek 348 13
Wawrinka, Stani 348 9
Grosjean, Sebas 348 12
Tsonga, Jo-Wilf 347 15
Kuerten, Gustav 347 7
Burgsmuller, La 346 14
Gonzalez, Ferna 346 16
Monaco, Juan (A 346 10
Massu, Nicolas 345 12
Agassi, Andre ( 343 7
Tursunov, Dmitr 343 12
Kiefer, Nicolas 343 6
Volandri, Filip 343 11
Ginepri, Robby 342 11
Carlsen, Kennet 342 11
DEVILDER NICOLA 340 12
Saulnier, Cyril 340 12
Sanchez, David 340 9
Mahut, Nicolas 339 10
Wessels, Peter 339 12
Robredo, Tommy 339 9
Horna, Luis (PE 339 12
Behrend, Tomas 338 14
Benneteau, Juli 338 7
Haehnel, Jerome 338 9
ZIMONJIC NENAD 338 15
KNOWLE JULIAN 337 5
SQUILLARI FRANC 337 10
Serra, Florent 336 11
BLACK WAYNE 336 13
Srichaphan, Par 336 13
Beck, Karol (SV 336 11
Sluiter, Raemon 335 9
Vliegen, Kristo 335 11
Johansson, Thom 333 11
Mathieu, Paul-H 332 7
Garcia-Lopez Gu 332 9
Ferrer, David ( 332 10
Acasuso, Jose ( 332 10
Koubek, Stefan 330 6
DI PASQUALE ARN 329 12
Saretta, Flavio 329 10
Sanguinetti, Da 327 11
Llodra, Michael 326 0
Tipsarevic, Jan 326 10
Rochus, Olivier 325 12
Patience, Olivi 324 3
Djokovic, Novak 324 10
Andreev, Igor ( 323 8
ROGER-VASSELIN 322 9
Nadal, Rafael ( 321 7
Mantilla, Felix 318 4
Ventura, Santia 318 6
Davydenko, Niko 317 9
Martin, Alberto 316 10
Melzer, Jurgen 316 14
Malisse, Xavier 315 14
Clément, Arnaud 312 12
Arthurs, Wayne 308 9
Moya, Carlos (E 307 -8

as travelrajm (?name) has pointed out, the doubles specialists (bryans, nestor and others) and hard flatter hitters (gonzo, blake, tursunov) seem to play heavier, HL racquets....... moya is a huge outlier, such a light racquet with 7 points head-heavy (wonder if it's correct).... i thought wayne arthurs was a bit of an S/V guy, but his specs are down with the clay court guys (lighter, HH). i could be wrong about arthurs (maybe just assumed because he's australian)

i don't see roddick, federer or safin... anyone know that data??

if it's important to you, i can probably dig out the original thread with the raw data.

LASTLY, i assume my calculations were correct (1/8 inch = 1 point HL/HH). does some guys really play more than 15 points HL??

I think jura was the one that measured those specs at the French Open.

Since those are unstrung specs, imagining them strung, the strings would add about 15-20g depending on the string. And, therefore, they can make the average unstrung racquet about 3-4 pts. less headlight.

As for Marat Safin's racquet, I have some specs that I got from Fena and travlr.

Safin's old Dunlop PJed racquet's specs (unstrung):
Grip Size: 4
Weight: 330g
Swingweight: 296
Balance: 30.7cm
Stiffness: 66


Safin's most current setup (unstrung):
Weight: 336g
Swingweight: 335
Balance: 31.2cm

Hope this helps.
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
aren't swingweight, weight and balance close to being a 3-way equation? i.e. if you know two, you can come close on the 3rd (i guess the racquet length is the other obvious variable..

seems like lighter racquets tend to be HH, heavy racquets tend to be HL. if you make your heavy racquet HH, then it will hard to get racquet speed and the ball will go long alot if you can get racquet speed.

Yes, you can estimate swingweight fairly accurately in most cases by assuming that the swingweight about the butt = 1.5MR^2, and then translating to the 10cm axis using the parallel axis theorem. I came up with a swingweight estimate for all the guys on Jura's list based on this formula, plus a few tweaks so that the numbers are interpolated between the known swingweight numbers I had for a few players:

Here is the thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=110239
 

jura

Professional
The specs are unstrung.
Regarding the weight/balance/swingweight discussion: If you give Mashona her racket with the same balance but 30 gramms heavier (and for this a much higher swingweight) she would feel horrible. If you make her racket 30 gramms heavier but stay with the same swingweight, she wouldn't feel that bad, I'm not sure if she even would recognize it during the first strokes.
And now you can decide what is more important.
 

tennissavy

Hall of Fame
The specs are unstrung.
Regarding the weight/balance/swingweight discussion: If you give Mashona her racket with the same balance but 30 gramms heavier (and for this a much higher swingweight) she would feel horrible. If you make her racket 30 gramms heavier but stay with the same swingweight, she wouldn't feel that bad, I'm not sure if she even would recognize it during the first strokes.
And now you can decide what is more important.

Whatever. That's mere conjecture on your part. I am just telling everyone what she told me.
 

grizzly4life

Professional
i personally think ballance does matter more than weight, amongst the range of racquet weights players seem to play. WTA seems to cluster much lower than ATP on the racquet weight.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Well, I spoke to Mashona Washington about her o3 white and it's customization. She told me that the most important thing was the balance and she should know.

She is right from her point of view - maybe for her balance and SW are the same in effect, or she doesn't really know the intricasies of SW. Remember, pros are not racquet geeks like the ones around here. I would go with jura about technical matters - that doesn't mean Mashona is wrong, just that jura will have more detailed knowledge (even if he is not a pro like her).
 

thejackal

Hall of Fame
She is right from her point of view - maybe for her balance and SW are the same in effect, or she doesn't really know the intricasies of SW. Remember, pros are not racquet geeks like the ones around here. I would go with jura about technical matters - that doesn't mean Mashona is wrong, just that jura will have more detailed knowledge (even if he is not a pro like her).

i agree on that one. when i worked at TMS Canada i overheard the stringers talking about Thomas Johansson coming in and asking for a pre-stretch on his racquets and that they weren't going to do it. keep in mind those same guys also string at the FO, so im sure they know what they were doing.
 

Hughy86

New User
Where are the pro's placing all this lead? Do the disperse it equally between 12oclock, 1/11, 2/10, and 3/9oclock? Or do they just add huge chunks to certain locations? (I know alot goes into grip as counter) but If I'm reading this right they some are adding 15-20grams or so to the head right?
 
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dirk_diggler

New User
the specs given on the pros' rackets are no way realistic. dude, check the normal balance on the aero pro racket for example. it#s 5 points headlight, so how the hell can nadal's real racket be at 7 points headlight, when he puts about 15g of lead at the 12o clock position?
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
the specs given on the pros' rackets are no way realistic. dude, check the normal balance on the aero pro racket for example. it#s 5 points headlight, so how the hell can nadal's real racket be at 7 points headlight, when he puts about 15g of lead at the 12o clock position?

Because Nadal's racquet is 7 pts HL unstrung and 3.5 pts HL strung.
 

realplayer

Semi-Pro
Safin's old Dunlop PJed racquet's specs (unstrung):
Grip Size: 4
Weight: 330g
Swingweight: 296
Balance: 30.7cm
Stiffness: 66


So safin played with a racket strung of around 350 grams and a sw of only 326!!!!



Safin's most current setup (unstrung):
Weight: 336g
Swingweight: 335
Balance: 31.2cm

What a difference!!!! I always thought they changed only minor details. Can anyone explain this!!

I've read some threads over how pros set up their rackets but the most important information is not there. The actual swingweights. Is this a big secret or something!!! There are some pros stringers on this message who should know. Lots of people on this board would like to know i'm sure.
 

PurePrestige

Semi-Pro
Safin's old Dunlop PJed racquet's specs (unstrung):
Grip Size: 4
Weight: 330g
Swingweight: 296
Balance: 30.7cm
Stiffness: 66


So safin played with a racket strung of around 350 grams and a sw of only 326!!!!



Safin's most current setup (unstrung):
Weight: 336g
Swingweight: 335
Balance: 31.2cm

What a difference!!!! I always thought they changed only minor details. Can anyone explain this!!

I've read some threads over how pros set up their rackets but the most important information is not there. The actual swingweights. Is this a big secret or something!!! There are some pros stringers on this message who should know. Lots of people on this board would like to know i'm sure.


To explain, the Dunlop specs which were released to the public were the factory target specs for Safin. In other words, during this time, Marat's customizing wasn't being done by Dunlop. He had visible lead tape at this time and probably hidden lead as well. The specs are rather different because the Dunlop specs reveal a swingweight similar to a light spec prestige mid, while the more recent specs indicate his unstrung swingweight after customized.
 
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