How I plan to play pickleball to enhance my tennis game...

[Deleted member 775108]

I listened to a recent Pickleball Studio podcast interview of Zane Navatril and he says he changes grips from continental, SW, and eastern just like tennis players do. He doesn't recommend this for players below 4.5 and said half of pros change grips. If your only using continental, you are losing out on power and spin on your forehand. I think SW would be hard for tall players since the ball bounces so low.

I can play strong eastern, same as my tennis grip. Have to play with a LOT of knee flex to make it work. Some of the people I play against really struggle since I can hit a highish loopy ball as a return of serve with the tennis technique that lands close to the baseline on their backhand due to the PB rule of having to be wait for the ball to bounce before the third shot. Invariably they pop it up and get hammered.

Net work is all continental almost all the time.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

-not enough time to change grips!!
-not enough time to take a big backswing
-unless you play singles exclusively, there is no time to change grips or hit a classic tennis stroke!!
-the goal is to get to the net and volley points away
-if you stay at the baseline, you are bound to lose

 

[Shroud]

26g wiffle strength

I get bombarded with short pickleball vids on youtube. Its always something like "Epic Point". I ALWAYS comment: "ANOTHER pickleball vid where no one can put the ball away"

 

[ByeByePoly]

I get bombarded with short pickleball vids on youtube. Its always something like "Epic Point". I ALWAYS comment: "ANOTHER pickleball vid where no one can put the ball away"

Serves, returns and overheads were strategically neutered for when us tennis players would be coming.

Serves

You get one serve, you can only score on your serve … are you going to go for that t serve on ad side with opponent hiding their backhand with their butt past sideline. No you are not … and even if you did … a fast player likely to get to your max whiffle underarm pace.

Return of serve

Hit your best flat, topspin or backspin deep … or just moonball deep … all day long to get to kitchen. I hit backspin ros often because wiffle bounces like crap to begin with … and backspin really messes with pballers that didn’t come from tennis.

Overhead

Just a rally ball if opponent on baseline … clean winning overhead usually means sharp angle.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I listened to a recent Pickleball Studio podcast interview of Zane Navatril and he says he changes grips from continental, SW, and eastern just like tennis players do. He doesn't recommend this for players below 4.5 and said half of pros change grips. If your only using continental, you are losing out on power and spin on your forehand. I think SW would be hard for tall players since the ball bounces so low.

I watched that also … I think he said he used SW for flyswatter slaps at kitchen … not for forehand baseline groundstrokes. I might be wrong on that … but what I remember. Even in my short 3 months … my hand has already been finding a disgusting frying pan grip on it’s own. You start out wanting to use your tennis overhead technique on everything … then find out many balls are best frying pan slapped. Embarrassing game.

 

[Shroud]

Serves, returns and overheads were strategically neutered for when us tennis players would be coming.

Serves

You get one serve, you can only score on your serve … are you going to go for that t serve on ad side with opponent hiding their backhand with their butt past sideline. No you are not … and even if you did … a fast player likely to get to your max whiffle underarm pace.

Return of serve

Hit your best flat, topspin or backspin deep … or just moonball deep … all day long to get to kitchen. I hit backspin ros often because wiffle bounces like crap to begin with … and backspin really messes with pballers that didn’t come from tennis.

Overhead

Just a rally ball if opponent on baseline … clean winning overhead usually means sharp angle.

kitchen is dumb

 

[ByeByePoly]

kitchen is dumb

4 guys at the net with paddles would be epic … my guess is they would fade back to around the kitchen line … wait

Someone should do that experiment … both singles and doubles. You first.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I watched that also … I think he said he used SW for flyswatter slaps at kitchen … not for forehand baseline groundstrokes. I might be wrong on that … but what I remember. Even in my short 3 months … my hand has already been finding a disgusting frying pan grip on it’s own. You start out wanting to use your tennis overhead technique on everything … then find out many balls are best frying pan slapped. Embarrassing game.

@treo … I did in fact remember wrong. Zane talks about hitting SW forehands … and also switches to SW from cont at kitchen when he hits what he calls a “Tomahawk“.

@10:00ish he talks about grips:

What Zane means by Tomahawk… basically just hit bh kitchen shot with same SW grip he uses on forehand groundstroke. I think this is @Shroud ‘s tennis grips.

 

[Shroud]

@treo … I did in fact remember wrong. Zane talks about hitting SW forehands … and also switches to SW from cont at kitchen when he hits what he calls a “Tomahawk“.

@10:00ish he talks about grips:

What Zane means by Tomahawk… basically just hit bh kitchen shot with same SW grip he uses on forehand groundstroke. I think this is @Shroud ‘s tennis grips.

Omg. Yes but he hits it sooo wimpy. I must call the attorney and sue. Anyhow now I don’t have to make a vid explaining it to @Curious

 

[ByeByePoly]

Omg. Yes but he hits it sooo wimpy. I must call the attorney and sue. Anyhow now I don’t have to make a vid explaining it to @Curious

here to help brother … you will need luck with brother Curious

 

[Shroud]

here to help brother … you will need luck with brother Curious

Met with my tennis partner tonight. Apparently Shroud plays a mean game of poker. Anyhow he was talking about playing pickleball. . Maybe I will have to take the plunge.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Met with my tennis partner tonight. Apparently Shroud plays a mean game of poker. Anyhow he was talking about playing pickleball. . Maybe I will have to take the plunge.

Do it … eventually we will have enough for a tennis players playing pickleball support group. Your knees will appreciate it … but the back not so much at first. I am now past the back soreness … but ironically after 40+ years of tennis with zero knee issues, now have mild “jumpers knee“ …. basically knee TE. I’m going to chalk that up to age and going from fairly inactive to pball three times a week.

 

[optic yellow]

Do it … eventually we will have enough for a tennis players playing pickleball support group. Your knees will appreciate it … but the back not so much at first. I am now past the back soreness … but ironically after 40+ years of tennis with zero knee issues, now have mild “jumpers knee“ …. basically knee TE. I’m going to chalk that up to age and going from fairly inactive to pball three times a week.

Are you done playing tennis?

 

[ByeByePoly]

Are you done playing tennis?

Looks like it … although I would still enjoy just hitting.

 

[Shroud]

Do it … eventually we will have enough for a tennis players playing pickleball support group. Your knees will appreciate it … but the back not so much at first. I am now past the back soreness … but ironically after 40+ years of tennis with zero knee issues, now have mild “jumpers knee“ …. basically knee TE. I’m going to chalk that up to age and going from fairly inactive to pball three times a week.

Jumpers knee? Had that the last 30 years. On the side of the kneecap there are tiny muscles. Rub around there and I bet you will feel a soreness. Its exactly like te. Tiny muscles get tight and mess everything up. Massage the crap out of the sore part and it will help. At least it did for me.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Jumpers knee? Had that the last 30 years. On the side of the kneecap there are tiny muscles. Rub around there and I bet you will feel a soreness. Its exactly like te. Tiny muscles get tight and mess everything up. Massage the crap out of the sore part and it will help. At least it did for me.

Yeah … as you would know about me … hit the Google/Youtube info gathering. That was after getting an xray and seeing structurally pretty good considering my miles on a hard tennis court. Much of the same stuff as TE … eccentric exercises, massage, reduce your activity/sport if making it worse but don’t go to doing nothing or risk coming back weaker.

One of the videos was interesting … pointed to a study that refuted the idea tendonitis comes first, then tendinopathy. They suggested the reverse … gradual degredation (tendinopathy) that eventually shows itself as tendonitis. Also discarded idea of treating damaged area (micro tears) … forget about it and strengthen the good (treat the donut not the hole).

Nobody really has a clue.

I seem to have a mild case … already better … what I have been doing:

- wall squats
- shallow (not 90) very slow single leg (a little help for now) eccentric squat on incline board (stand on board declined)
- massage patella tendon below knee (cross friction)
- keep playing pickleball 3 times a week … has never hurt during play
- bought a jumper’s knee strap … played in it once … didn’t notice any help so just keep it in bag in case
- 5 minutes slow treadmill before play
- added standing quad stretch (pull foot to butt) after treadmill

Also bought my first massage gun … but only briefly used it. I intend to use it lightly on quad (maybe calves) before I leave the house … maybe try that tomorrow.

 

[Shroud]

Yeah … as you would know about me … hit the Google/Youtube info gathering. That was after getting an xray and seeing structurally pretty good considering my miles on a hard tennis court. Much of the same stuff as TE … eccentric exercises, massage, reduce your activity/sport if making it worse but don’t go to doing nothing or risk coming back weaker.

One of the videos was interesting … pointed to a study that refuted the idea tendonitis comes first, then tendinopathy. They suggested the reverse … gradual degredation (tendinopathy) that eventually shows itself as tendonitis. Also discarded idea of treating damaged area (micro tears) … forget about it and strengthen the good (treat the donut not the hole).

Nobody really has a clue.

I seem to have a mild case … already better … what I have been doing:

- wall squats
- shallow (not 90) very slow single leg (a little help for now) eccentric squat on incline board (stand on board declined)
- massage patella tendon below knee (cross friction)
- keep playing pickleball 3 times a week … has never hurt during play
- bought a jumper’s knee strap … played in it once … didn’t notice any help so just keep it in bag in case
- 5 minutes slow treadmill before play
- added standing quad stretch (pull foot to butt) after treadmill

Also bought my first massage gun … but only briefly used it. I intend to use it lightly on quad (maybe calves) before I leave the house … maybe try that tomorrow.

Wow thats amazing. Beating me. In theory I do lying bicycles for 3 sets of 3 minutes. Also treadmill sessions of at least 1 hour a day. And stretching. Lots of stretching.

in reality its not much. Mostly just ordering food from seamless… it seems like perfect for pickleball

 

[optic yellow]

Wow thats amazing. Beating me. In theory I do lying bicycles for 3 sets of 3 minutes. Also treadmill sessions of at least 1 hour a day. And stretching. Lots of stretching.

in reality its not much. Mostly just ordering food from seamless… it seems like perfect for pickleball

Lying bicycles are the **** for restoring hip mobility.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Wow thats amazing. Beating me. In theory I do lying bicycles for 3 sets of 3 minutes. Also treadmill sessions of at least 1 hour a day. And stretching. Lots of stretching.

in reality its not much. Mostly just ordering food from seamless… it seems like perfect for pickleball

I lost 9 months tennis to TE … and we (wife) are just now getting into Pickleball and loving it (was that out loud? ) No way I want to mess that up with knee TE … why I went and got an xray so quickly. Ironically we never played mixed doubles tennis … but having fun playing open play pball.

 

[Shroud]

Lying bicycles are the **** for restoring hip mobility.

Weird. Was talking about knee. Meniscus.

 

[Shroud]

I lost 9 months tennis to TE … and we (wife) are just now getting into Pickleball and loving it (was that out loud? ) No way I want to mess that up with knee TE … why I went and got an xray so quickly. Ironically we never played mixed doubles tennis … but having fun playing open play pball.

No poly for pickleball

 

[optic yellow]

Weird. Was talking about knee. Meniscus.

These are connected ime sry. I notice the hip loosenening seems to lower strain I feel on knees and ankles.

 

[Shroud]

These are connected ime sry. I notice the hip loosenening seems to lower strain I feel on knees and ankles.

Its a good point. I do need to do something for the hips as well. Except for the middle its a mess down there.

 

[ByeByePoly]

These are connected ime sry. I notice the hip loosenening seems to lower strain I feel on knees and ankles.

I’ve read that about hips (and glutes) … can pull knee toward outside (same with tight outside quad). I have also seen recommended exercises. But how do you know if hips are tight. For example … I clearly know when calves are tight.

btw … massage gun with cushioned head piece on calves this morning before leaving the house was awesome. Just a couple of minutes … good to go … way easier than foam roller. I also did quad … but any benefit wasn’t obvious. Quads are like hips to me … if they are tight I don’t feel it.

 

[optic yellow]

I’ve read that about hips (and glutes) … can pull knee toward outside (same with tight outside quad). I have also seen recommended exercises. But how do you know if hips are tight. For example … I clearly know when calves are tight.

Well I go with the assume so unless proven otherwise approach

Yeah generally I'm not looking directly but rather for indicators like walking poorly (either noticing the stiffness of the stride, bad movement patterns I know I've developed or pain lower down in the leg), pain/a feeling of weakness while sitting, and bending over from the back rather than hinging correctly from the hips. Not thinking clearly or feeling like I lack mental functionality while trying to do work is another obvious sign, though this can also overlap with tight chest/upper back/shoulder muscles.

 

[bobleenov1963]

There is a girl who is one of the top 30th PB players in the world in my area. She used to be a tennis player and my daughter bageled her twice in UTR tournaments. My daughter stopped playing competitive tennis after 18 to focus on academics. You don't have to be physical fit in PB like you are in tennis in order to compete. PB might make your tennis worse.

 

[ByeByePoly]

There is a girl who is one of the top 30th PB players in the world in my area. She used to be a tennis player and my daughter bageled her twice in UTR tournaments. My daughter stopped playing competitive tennis after 18 to focus on academics. You don't have to be physical fit in PB like you are in tennis in order to compete. PB might make your tennis worse.

For a different opinion … watch starting @01:47:30 for a couple of minutes:

 

[bobleenov1963]

For a different opinion … watch starting @01:47:30 for a couple of minutes:

So you're saying that Ana Leigh Waters is much more fit than Cocoa Gauff or Iga Swiatek?

 

[ByeByePoly]

So you're saying that Ana Leigh Waters is much more fit than Cocoa Gauff or Iga Swiatek?

Nope … I am saying both are very fit … and don’t care who is more fit.

 

[atatu]

So you're saying that Ana Leigh Waters is much more fit than Cocoa Gauff or Iga Swiatek?

I've had this discussion with Pickleball players too, after the Sinner-Alcaraz match last year a friend of mine was trying to convince me that Tyson Mcguffie (?) was just a fit as those guys, it was amusing. I mean I know the best E-sports guys are very talented and hard working and they spend hours practicing, but they aren't as athletic as the top NBA or ATP players.

 

[optic yellow]

I've had this discussion with Pickleball players too, after the Sinner-Alcaraz match last year a friend of mine was trying to convince me that Tyson Mcguffie (?) was just a fit as those guys, it was amusing. I mean I know the best E-sports guys are very talented and hard working and they spend hours practicing, but they aren't as athletic as the top NBA or ATP players.

What does esports have to do with pickleball?

 

[atatu]

What does esports have to do with pickleball?

They are both sports that require skill and practice, but less physical fitness than sports like tennis or basketball.

 

[optic yellow]

They are both sports that require skill and practice, but less physical fitness than sports like tennis or basketball.

You don't play esports on your feet.

 

[atatu]

You don't play esports on your feet.

F1 Drivers aren't on their feet either, so what ? Competitive esports takes a lot of concentrations and great reflexes, do you think pickleball is tougher physically ?

 

[bobleenov1963]

Nope … I am saying both are very fit … and don’t care who is more fit.

Ana Leigh Waters couldn't hack it with tennis so she went over to PB. The same with Catherine Parenteau. They both would be demolished by WTA players.

My son and daughter played tennis but stopped a few years ago and they both said they can be out there play PB for hours and not getting tired. Not so with tennis.

 

[optic yellow]

F1 Drivers aren't on their feet either, so what ? Competitive esports takes a lot of concentrations and great reflexes, do you think pickleball is tougher physically ?

I mean I don't feel as physically exercised after playing video games for two hours as I do doing anything on my feet even when I'm tryharding in a MOBA like a professional player. It's more than nothing sure but I was thinking if like tennis is tier a then pickleball would be tier b and esports tier c.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Ana Leigh Waters couldn't hack it with tennis so she went over to PB. The same with Catherine Parenteau. They both would be demolished by WTA players.

My son and daughter played tennis but stopped a few years ago and they both said they can be out there play PB for hours and not getting tired. Not so with tennis.

whatever … you are mixing lots of things here … levels, skills, matchups, movements required for the particular game, average hits per point, etc. If your daughter played Ana Leigh for hours of pball singles and wasn’t tired probably because didn’t score any points.

 

[bobleenov1963]

whatever … you are mixing lots of things here … levels, skills, matchups, movements required for the particular game, average hits per point, etc. If your daughter played Ana Leigh for hours of pball singles and wasn’t tired probably because didn’t score any points.

That's true.

However, if Ana Leigh plays tennis against Iga Swiatek, she wouldn't score a single point of Swiatek. ALW is a good athlete but she couldn't hack the tennis circuit so she plays PB. Catherine Parenteau couldn't hack the WTA circuit, you're aware of that, right?

 

[Deleted member 775108]

That's true.

However, if Ana Leigh plays tennis against Iga Swiatek, she wouldn't score a single point of Swiatek. ALW is a good athlete but she couldn't hack the tennis circuit so she plays PB. Catherine Parenteau couldn't hack the WTA circuit, you're aware of that, right?

What purpose is this discussion really serving?

Tennis is a superior sport & attracts superior athletes. Happy?

But most of us social rec players suck pretty bad at both (compared to the pro end of the sports) no matter how much we pretend.

 

[ByeByePoly]

That's true.

However, if Ana Leigh plays tennis against Iga Swiatek, she wouldn't score a single point of Swiatek. ALW is a good athlete but she couldn't hack the tennis circuit so she plays PB. Catherine Parenteau couldn't hack the WTA circuit, you're aware of that, right?

I had the same uniformed opinion that pickleball is very little exercise, or doesn’t require excellent fitness to play at higher levels 3 months ago.

As to who is more fit … or can’t hack it … who cares … they all are fit? Pro tennis is a big pond … pickleball a small pond. 99.99% of us wouldn’t hack it on the pro tennis tour … a small percentage of those might do ok in the smaller pond.

I also think measuring fitness across sports is not black and white. I won outdoor 4.5 singles tournaments in high heat and humidity… but my guess is 2/3 of the draw could have beat me in a 2 mile run. Who was more fit … the runner or my quick recoveries on changeovers? I had a tennis friend that played 5.0 tennis that was married to a triathlete. His comment was we couldn’t do what she does … but she couldn’t change directions on a tennis court for two hours. At a minimum you need to specify/define the “fitness” you are measuring. I was “tennis fit” … but wouldn’t have lasted 30 (ok … 10 minutes) minutes on a soccer field. Speaking of soccer … the 16 year old Anna Leigh that you proclaimed couldn’t “hack it” in tennis played soccer I think. Do you want to claim tennis players are more fit than soccer payers? That is probably true … soccer players about the same fitness level as video game pros.

This is a boring debate … I should go buy another pickleball paddle. Wait … I already did.

Oh … forgot to mention … tennis doubles is very little exercise compared to tennis singles. The only ones who don’t know this are tennis players who have never played singles. I played indoor winter 4.5 doubles twice a week for years and never felt like major exercise. After 2 hours of open play pickleball doubles we have worked up a sweat. Lost 10lbs in this no-exercise pickleball … don’t remember indoor tennis doubles ever doing that.

 

[ByeByePoly]

What purpose is this discussion really serving?

Tennis is a superior sport & attracts superior athletes. Happy?

But most of us social rec players suck pretty bad at both (compared to the pro end of the sports) no matter how much we pretend.

nothing … but twice as much as GPPD

 

[atatu]

I had the same uniformed opinion that pickleball is very little exercise, or doesn’t require excellent fitness to play at higher levels 3 months ago.

As to who is more fit … or can’t hack it … who cares … they all are fit? Pro tennis is a big pond … pickleball a small pond. 99.99% of us wouldn’t hack it on the pro tennis tour … a small percentage of those might do ok in the smaller pond.

I also think measuring fitness across sports is not black and white. I won outdoor 4.5 singles tournaments in high heat and humidity… but my guess is 2/3 of the draw could have beat me in a 2 mile run. Who was more fit … the runner or my quick recoveries on changeovers? I had a tennis friend that played 5.0 tennis that was married to a triathlete. His comment was we couldn’t do what she does … but she couldn’t change directions on a tennis court for two hours. At a minimum you need to specify/define the “fitness” you are measuring. I was “tennis fit” … but wouldn’t have lasted 30 (ok … 10 minutes) minutes on a soccer field. Speaking of soccer … the 16 year old Anna Leigh that you proclaimed couldn’t “hack it” in tennis played soccer I think. Do you want to claim tennis players are more fit than soccer payers? That is probably true … soccer players about the same fitness level as video game pros.

This is a boring debate … I should go buy another pickleball paddle. Wait … I already did.

Oh … forgot to mention … tennis doubles is very little exercise compared to tennis singles. The only ones who don’t know this are tennis players who have never played singles. I played indoor winter 4.5 doubles twice a week for years and never felt like major exercise. After 2 hours of open play pickleball doubles we have worked up a sweat. Lost 10lbs in this no-exercise pickleball … don’t remember indoor tennis doubles ever doing that.

Ok, I hesitate to respond because you took offense the last time I did, but actually she was a tennis player, but she said she didn't enjoy it very much. I'm not saying she couldn't hack it or wasn't a good tennis player, but she actually did play junior tournaments.

 

[bobleenov1963]

the 16 year old Anna Leigh that you proclaimed couldn’t “hack it” in tennis played soccer I think. Do you want to claim tennis players are more fit than soccer payers? That is probably true … soccer players about the same fitness level as video game pros.

What was ANL tennis ranking prior to switching to PB? What was Catherine Parenteau WTA/ITF ranking prior to switching over to PB? If I am not mistaken CP was ranked somewhere around 1800's on the WTA tour.

Yes, both ANL and CP are good athletes but they wouldn't make it on the ITF or WTA tour.

 

[ByeByePoly]

What was ANL tennis ranking prior to switching to PB? What was Catherine Parenteau WTA/ITF ranking prior to switching over to PB? If I am not mistaken CP was ranked somewhere around 1800's on the WTA tour.

Yes, both ANL and CP are good athletes but they wouldn't make it on the ITF or WTA tour.

neither would you …

Anna became professional PB player at age 12 … why the questions about her tennis?

”In 2019, at age 12, Waters became the youngest professional pickleball player in history.”

Anna Leigh Waters - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bobleenov1963]

neither would you …

Anna became professional PB player at age 12 … why the questions about her tennis?

”In 2019, at age 12, Waters became the youngest professional pickleball player in history.”

Anna Leigh Waters - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Take it easy boomer. I never said I would.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Take it easy boomer. I never said I would.

ok

 

[Deleted member 775108]

ok

Yeah - Lets just enjoy Pickleball and/or Tennis in no particular order.

Some positivity below for no good reason other than there is too much negativity everywhere nowadays.

 

[optic yellow]

neither would you …

Anna became professional PB player at age 12 … why the questions about her tennis?

”In 2019, at age 12, Waters became the youngest professional pickleball player in history.”

Anna Leigh Waters - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I went to look her up and her most recent tweet is calling for the need to test "deflection" on paddles what is that?

 

[Deleted member 775108]

I went to look her up and her most recent tweet is calling for the need to test "deflection" on paddles what is that?

Trampolining over a certain spec is illegal, PB paddles have rigid cores but can be replaced illegally with other things for better spin, pace, touch etc..

Surface texture over a certain spec is illegal. Apparently many retail paddles are over spec too since spin tests sell paddles.

Many pros suggest that cheating is rampant in these and other aspects since paddles are black boxes literally.... A normal looking paddles plays differently, sounds different than what an opponent is used to - suspicious.

The system to challenge an opponents paddle is broken.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I went to look her up and her most recent tweet is calling for the need to test "deflection" on paddles what is that?

what Gold said

@22-29 Zane talks about spin/grit and deflection concerns on pro tour

fyi … also found it interesting how he pointed out why spin is so important in men’s pro singles. It’s not the same like heavy baseline tennis and jumping ball up out of strike zone. They can’t bang the 26g wiffle past fast opponents… but very important to make opponent hit up.