How in the World can a K90 be 12pts headlight?

Pete.Sampras.

Semi-Pro
How in the World can a K90 be 12pts headlight?

I mean, I've played with the PS85, the N6.1 tour and the K6.1 tour. All the rackets are supposed to be 12pts headlight (unstrung). Yet the Ncode and Kfactor feel a lot more head heavy, so much that it tires me out while me PS85 doesn't.

Lately I posted the wrong weight but today I checked it again: My PS85 (368gr), my Ncode (364gr.) and the K90 demo (366gr.)...

I really love the K90 and I play well with it for about an hour or a bit longer but then I get tired.

Some info, any explanations? Is there a way to fix this problem without increasing the SW? If not I will most certainly switch to the Yonex RDS001 or the Dunlop Aerogel 200 (or maybe the asian K90 which should arrive soon...)
 

Pete.Sampras.

Semi-Pro
I think the Asian K90 is your answer.
Do you have one yet? I think the stability could be a problem here. I really like the fast serve I have with the heavy K90 and the volleys are sweet. It's just too tough for a long match on clay, where I have to play on most of the time. A balance which is a little more headlight would be just perfect.
But you didn't really answer my question :p
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
You may want to replace the leather grip with a lighter synthetic one. that will likely save you a few grams and some swingweight points unles the leather gip is cheesy. This will make your racquet maybe even feel less maneuverable because it will be less headlight, but it will be slightly more maneuverable in reality.
Additionally poly strings can add some swingweight points, and gut can be a little heavier. also try a thinner gauge if practical.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Try shaving off the bumper guard and/or replacing the leather grip with a lighter grip. Both should save you a couple of points of swingweight.

The nCode 90 and K90 swing heavier than the PS 6.0 85 due to the weight distribution and the larger heads of the nCode 90 and K90. Remember that weight distribution is not the same thing as balance.
 

Pete.Sampras.

Semi-Pro
The nCode 90 and K90 swing heavier than the PS 6.0 85 due to the weight distribution and the larger heads of the nCode 90 and K90. Remember that weight distribution is not the same thing as balance.
I never really thought about that. Willing to explain?

I won't do anything to my racket. Either I like the stock version or not. All I would do is add some lead ;)
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
The balance is just the median point at which half of the racquet's weight is above that point and half of its weight is below that point but it doesn't tell you where that weight is distributed above or below that point. For example, a racquet that has most of its weight 1 inch above the balance point and 1 inch below the balance point would have the same balance as a racquet that has most of its weight 10 inches above the balance point and 10 inches below the balance point, but boy, would these two racquets play and swing very, very differently.

Another example, if there are 20 students in a physics class and the median (balance point) on the final exam was 60, that just tells you that half of the students (10) scored above 60 and half (10) scored below 60, but it does not tell you if the upper half all scored 100 or if they all scored 70 nor does it tell you if the lower half all scored 50 or if they all scored only 10.
 

alan-n

Professional
Try shaving off the bumper guard and/or replacing the leather grip with a lighter grip.
Its amazing what 5 less grams from the bumberguard does for maneuverability. Before I wouldn't have bother playing doubles with the tour 90, after shaving off the bumper guard its as maneuverable as the PS95. Doing this has made the racquet 2 more points HL.
 

armand

Banned
How about hitting the gym once in your life?

Or not even. Just take the dictionary and lift it a few times.

Another suggestion: swing a racquet around your place with the racquet cover on. I do that and put a magazine or 2 in the cover too.
 

Michelangelo

Professional
Humm... I love the weight distribution of KSix-One Tour 90. It helps me serve so much! (Very interestingly, I serve much faster with my stock KSix-One Tour 90 than any other oversize rackets I've tried/owned.)
 
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NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
This frame has the kind of bumper that if you trim you will lose protection against scraping the court and people seem to think the paint job is fragile to begin with. also, this frame is already significantly headlight, and making it even more so would likely make for a really goofy playing frame.

Your answer is simple....switch to a frame which you can more comfortably handle
 

fearless1

Rookie
How in the World can a K90 be 12pts headlight?

I mean, I've played with the PS85, the N6.1 tour and the K6.1 tour. All the rackets are supposed to be 12pts headlight (unstrung). Yet the Ncode and Kfactor feel a lot more head heavy, so much that it tires me out while me PS85 doesn't.

Lately I posted the wrong weight but today I checked it again: My PS85 (368gr), my Ncode (364gr.) and the K90 demo (366gr.)...

I really love the K90 and I play well with it for about an hour or a bit longer but then I get tired.

Some info, any explanations? Is there a way to fix this problem without increasing the SW? If not I will most certainly switch to the Yonex RDS001 or the Dunlop Aerogel 200 (or maybe the asian K90 which should arrive soon...)
With strings, over grip, and dampener, it's really about 9 pts HL. Adding a pack of Gamma lead tape (18 grams) to the grip area will get the racquet (either nCode 90 or K90) to about 13.5 oz and 12 pts HL without adding much to the swingwt. I don't like counterweighting, so I usally add the lead tape to the top of the grip area making for a noticably more powerful racquet on groundstrokes, overhead, and serve shots. Volleys are a bit more of a challenge though. I've taken the lead off all my 90 racquets except for one that I use as a heavier training racquet. Bringing up other points...

As evident in the thread, there are two predominant schools of thought when it comes to the two wt versions of the 90 racquets. The Lighter racquet school has the player selecting a racquet based on current abilities, generally the lighter racquet, which is a racquet to player adaptation process. On the other hand, the Heavy racquet school is typified by a player arbitrarily selecting a heavier racquet for its inherent advantages. Implicit in the heavy racquet selection is a player to racquet adapation process that the player must go through before he/she starts to truely enjoy the benefits of the heavier racquet.

As some in the thread are already aware, I'm a Heavy racquet school advocate. Once a player adapts to the heavier racquet both in terms of physical strength and stroke timing, the player's strokes actually will look and feel like he/she is swinging a lighter racquet.

Other benefits to going heavier:
In general, you become a physically stronger player.
Pretty much all other lighter racquets become easy to use (if you ever need to switch for some reason).
To me, the heavier racquet allows for potentially greater accuracy in shot placement (ie, tighter "shot grouping"). This last point is very important but is experienced only after one has fully adapted to the heavier racquet. All the heavier Wilson 90 racquets are low power but high "feel" racquets...the player provides the power while the racquet provides the accuracy potential.
Almost forgot...you save yourself the trouble of trying to get lighter Asian version 90 racquets.

One caveat is stroke style. There appears to be a consensus with the heavier 90 racquets that the more loopy the stroke style, the more difficult they are to use. My own strokes are traditional [non loopy] eastern fh and 2hb, flat with some natural topspin. So for me, the heavier 90s are easy to use.
 
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Keifers

Legend
Try shaving off the bumper guard and/or replacing the leather grip with a lighter grip. Both should save you a couple of points of swingweight.

The nCode 90 and K90 swing heavier than the PS 6.0 85 due to the weight distribution and the larger heads of the nCode 90 and K90. Remember that weight distribution is not the same thing as balance.
I wonder if switching to a very thin gauge string, say, 18 ga, would make a noticeable difference.

Have you done this, BP? Anyone else?
 

Pete.Sampras.

Semi-Pro
With strings, over grip, and dampener, it's really about 9 pts HL. Adding a pack of Gamma lead tape (18 grams) to the grip area will get the racquet (either nCode 90 or K90) to about 13.5 oz and 12 pts HL without adding much to the swingwt. I don't like counterweighting, so I usally add the lead tape to the top of the grip area making for a noticably more powerful racquet on groundstrokes, overhead, and serve shots. Volleys are a bit more of a challenge though. I've taken the lead off all my 90 racquets except for one that I use as a heavier training racquet. Bringing up other points...

As evident in the thread, there are two predominant schools of thought when it comes to the two wt versions of the 90 racquets. The Lighter racquet school has the player selecting a racquet based on current abilities, generally the lighter racquet, which is a racquet to player adaptation process. On the other hand, the Heavy racquet school is typified by a player arbitrarily selecting a heavier racquet for its inherent advantages. Implicit in the heavy racquet selection is a player to racquet adapation process that the player must go through before he/she starts to truely enjoy the benefits of the heavier racquet.

As some in the thread are already aware, I'm a Heavy racquet school advocate. Once a player adapts to the heavier racquet both in terms of physical strength and stroke timing, the player's strokes actually will look and feel like he/she is swinging a lighter racquet.

Other benefits to going heavier:
In general, you become a physically stronger player.
Pretty much all other lighter racquets become easy to use (if you ever need to switch for some reason).
To me, the heavier racquet allows for potentially greater accuracy in shot placement (ie, tighter "shot grouping"). This last point is very important but is experienced only after one has fully adapted to the heavier racquet. All the heavier Wilson 90 racquets are low power but high "feel" racquets...the player provides the power while the racquet provides the accuracy potential.
Almost forgot...you save yourself the trouble of trying to get lighter Asian version 90 racquets.

One caveat is stroke style. There appears to be a consensus with the heavier 90 racquets that the more loopy the stroke style, the more difficult they are to use. My own strokes are traditional [non loopy] eastern fh and 2hb, flat with some natural topspin. So for me, the heavier 90s are easy to use.
Thanks for that.

Don't forget that I already use the heaviest (stock version) racket out there with great success. As I said before, I play very well with the K90, but since I don't have time to go to the gym or play five days a week anymore, the heavy SW makes my stamina drop quickly...

I also mentioned that this happens on clay only. I have no problems on other surfaces. Come on guys, some of you are talking like I'm a bad player. Hell no, I'm pretty good actually and my physical conditions aren't the worst. It's just that you have to play five days a week and go to the gym regularly to be able to play your best tennis with the K90 for more than just an hour (and a half maybe) on clay. I love this racket, I love the ProStaff series - usingit for more than ten years now - and I would like to keep on playing with it. It seems that my only problem is the changed weight distribution compared to the PS85...

That's not hard to understand, is it? I'm sure some of you felt the same...
 
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fearless1

Rookie
Thanks for that.

Don't forget that I already use the heaviest (stock version) racket out there with great success. As I said before, I play very well with the K90, but since I don't have time to go to the gym or play five days a week anymore, the heavy SW makes my stamina drop quickly...

I also mentioned that this happens on clay only. I have no problems on other surfaces. Come on guys, some of you are talking like I'm a bad player. Hell no, I'm pretty good actually and my physical conditions aren't the worst. It's just that you have to play five days a week and go to the gym regularly to be able to play your best tennis with the K90 for more than just an hour (and a half maybe) on clay. I love this racket, I love the ProStaff series - usingit for more than ten years now - and I would like to keep on playing with it. It seems that my only problem is the changed weight distribution compared to the PS85...

That's not hard to understand, is it? I'm sure some of you felt the same...
I should have been more explicit about including stamina/endurance issues in the adaption process. For me, stamina was an issue was when I first started using nCode 90. When I started to strain with the racquet on a particular workout, I'd make some adjustments and just keep on playing. I knew from my experiences with bodybuilding that endurance would eventually come and it did. For me, the transition to K90 was seamless, although I carry both n90 and K90 in my bag and use them interchangably.
 
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Pete.Sampras.

Semi-Pro
I should have been more explicit about including stamina/endurance issues in the adaption process. For me, stamina was an issue was when I first started using nCode 90. When I started to strain with the racquet on a particular workout, I'd make some adjustments and just keep on playing. I knew from my experiences with bodybuilding that endurance would eventually come and it did. For me, the transition to K90 was seamless, although I carry both n90 and K90 in my bag and use them interchangably.
So you're basically saying that the most important thing is to keep on playing with this racket and then it will become as easy as it is with my PS85... or did I get you wrong here?
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I wonder if switching to a very thin gauge string, say, 18 ga, would make a noticeable difference.

Have you done this, BP? Anyone else?
It probably would make a difference, but I have never done this nor have I ever used an 18g string. I stick with 16g strings because they last longer and I hate stringing racquets.
 

armand

Banned
Seriously, once a week swing a racquet with a cover on and some magazines inside. Swing as fast you can for like 10 minutes. You'll thank me on your wedding night.
 
Seriously, once a week swing a racquet with a cover on and some magazines inside. Swing as fast you can for like 10 minutes. You'll thank me on your wedding night.
I agree with you armand. I too swing my racquet inside my house on almost all the days that I don't actually play. Swinging with a cover on and with some magazines inside is actually new to me. I think I'll try it. I usually just swing a heavier racquet than the one I play with (either my PS Tour 90 or a wooden racquet.) After a good half and hour of swinging, I switch back to my Redondo mid and it feels much lighter than it did half an hour ago.
 

nickarnold2000

Hall of Fame
No time for the gym? Dumbells are the answer! I have the interchangeble variety and use them in many different exercises while watching TV. You'll start noticing the difference very quickly. I play on clay with my rds 90 001s at 365g and don't tire even after a couple of hours.
 

fearless1

Rookie
So you're basically saying that the most important thing is to keep on playing with this racket and then it will become as easy as it is with my PS85... or did I get you wrong here?
Sure, maybe even "easier" than your 85s considering some of the racquet's positive attributes; and after adapting to 90s, the 85s have the potential of being even easier to use too.

Speaking of 85s, earlier tonight, I hit with one of mine for the first time in months. I met someone out on the courts, I didn't have my usual tennis gear with me, and I had a spare 85 in the trunk of the car. Was 85 "easier" to use than 90s? Yes and no. Different racquet usually means some things are better and some things are worse.

Ponder this for a while: I PLAY better with the US 90s although they may be "harder" to use than the 85s.
 
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Pushmaster

Hall of Fame
The balance on the K90 I demoed is dead even. No question the K90 is an upgrade over the Tour and nCode 90 in feel (almost anything would be), but it's still on the sluggish side. Wilson got close with the K90, but still no cigar.
 

fearless1

Rookie
The balance on the K90 I demoed is dead even. No question the K90 is an upgrade over the Tour and nCode 90 in feel (almost anything would be), but it's still on the sluggish side. Wilson got close with the K90, but still no cigar.
Hmmm....might be a quality control issues with Wilson. The K90 demo at my friend's pro shop, a replacement for the ones I bought from him when the racquets where first released, swings MUCH heavier than the ones still on the rack and the ones I brought from him too. Get another demo and try again (make sure about 12.5 oz stock at about 9 pts HL when strung).
 

Pete.Sampras.

Semi-Pro
Okay... thanks for all the replies ;)

I don't even have the time to watch tv often so now I think you can imagine why I don't go to the gym anymore. But thanks for your help. Next time I watch Lost, I will give it a try as well.

Indeed I play better with the 90 but as I said, it tires me out after a while. I wouldn't want to switch if there were no advantages of course ;)

About the balance: To me, this racket feels even balanced too. That's my only problem because that's what seems to tire me out - my PS85 is heavier and it doesn't tire me out at all.

One more thing: I got my asian K90 this morning. I can't wait to find out how this one is. I'll tell you soon :)
 
I love the US K90 and have enjoyed using it from time to time. I infact kinda like it stock.. But as I am like you, and dont play as regularly as I should, I found that it does get a little much to swing around for 2 hours.. So that is why I decided to get 2 Asian versions..

The reason I got them, was because I liked the idea of the lighter weight, and it allowed me to to put the weight where I wanted it, plus kept the same feel as the US version and the PS 85.. I just havnt had a chance to get out and find a set up that suits, but as soon as the warmer weather sets in, thats exactly what I will be doing..
 

Pete.Sampras.

Semi-Pro
Yes, it seems that we both had the same experiences and thoughts with the US K90. I also planned to add some weight on the asian one to make it suit better. Well it arrived today and I've just given it away for stringing. First I have to see how I like the stock version...

I will use both, the 320gr and 340gr K90 when I play next time. This should be my ultimate test. I also have the new Head Microgel and the Dunlop Aerogel 200/300 now. I've also tested the Yonex RDS001 and the Head Prestige. My favourites are the K90 and the RDS001 so far, the K90 being the great weapon that demands my best game all the time and rewards me but tires me out after a while, the RDS001 being the easier stick with almost the same... well... greatness ;)
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Pete.Sampras.,
Please provide a comparative review of the US K90 and Asian K90 after you have played with both side-by-side.
Thanks
 
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