How is Prince brand doing?

eb_tennis_247

eb_tennis_247

Semi-Pro
I see lots of new prince frame releases. Synergy, ripstick, ... new Phantoms last year ...

Phantoms and Textreme Tours got very positive reviews. Yet, no pro endorsements.
I don’t see any juniors playing them either.

Does anyone have any idea how is Prince doing?

Are their sales keeping them afloat?
(I hope so)
 
Iga Swiatek winning the French with a 290 TT100 was some short lived publicity. The money only flows one way, apparently. However, that certainly got me to look into Prince more and while I didn’t care for the TT100 (305) I demoed, I’ve bought 3 Prince since (though 2 on sale, 1 used).

I reckon their problem is most kids coming into the sport aren’t gonna have parents willing to do much more than go to a big box store, or at best local tennis shop, to pick up junior racquets. Speaking for us, a burgeoning tennis family, we went local, got a 26” blue Babolat, then bought PD Lite when she got older. We could hold it in our hands and walk out the door. Until Prince are obtainable in anything other than mail order from TW, their brand isn’t going to grow.

Good racquets though! Phantom 100P is nice but out of my swingweight as is the TT100L out of the kiddo’s. P100X 290 is nice! I hope they stick around.
 
Prince is a brand and a licensing company. How are they doing? Well, it depends how strong their licensing agreement is. Ask how their licensee’s are doing selling their frames. TW is one... but I’m sure it would be a challenge to unwind the Prince sales in their financials.

If your margin only comes from licensing agreements, you aren’t going to be dumping tons of money into pro endorsements. And a licensee is not likely to either as they only have regional ownership.
 
The only prince racquet I bought recently was an old model o3 tour in good condition from secondhand. I'm guessing Prince could probably use more pros using or endorsing their racquets. Maybe they should approach some of the neglected mid tier pros to try out their racuqets, who don't have a racquet deal (like Su-Wei Hsieh). I like how some of their current rackets such as the phantoms have an old school, thinner throat beam section at close to 17mm.

edit: I just noticed, the prince racquet lineup is available on amazon also. So maybe that helps for them.
 
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I know of only one guy at my club who still plays with a Prince racquet and that is a model from 15-20 years ago.
 
I always thought Prince were stupid. Their logos, typeface, names, oversize heads. I thought they were the Reebok or Adidas compared to the Nike of the racquet/bag game (Wilson). Just lame, as a child/junior their aesthetics always left me cold.

Not to mention my favorite pros (Sampras and Federer) were always Wilson guys.

But, here I am with a Prince racquet all these years later and I love it. Just an incredible racquet, does everything well and would have fit my game at any point in my life past 12 or so.
 
I’ve been demoing a bunch of different rackets and I am now going with the Prince Phantom 100X. I haven’t thought much of Prince in the last few years but lately they have come up with some nice frames.
 
Gearheads do not care. However, because Prince frames are distributed by TW, not many places carry the frames. I think of Prince as a 3rd or 4th choice currently because they are frames designers, and not makers. Their strategy/tactics are not going to cut it and it is too bad because their 3rd party makers do make good frames. What I worry about is their future because I see no one young using their stuff. Seniors are moving towards Head and Wilson for OS.
 
I have a lot of interest in their Phantom G series racquets with the crossbars. But no L5, no sale. Other brands will take my money.
 
Lorenn said:
If that is not enough somtimes different racquets in different markets...
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Right so Prince is very popular in Japan. But prince is failing at nearly every level of the branding funnel: awareness, familiarity, consideration, purchase, repetition, loyalty.
 
I attend a ton of matches here in the Atlanta area to watch my kids in their ALTA, USTA and high school matches. I can probably count on one hand the number of kids playing a Prince frame. That doesn’t bode well for the long term success of the brand.
 
The Prince chang models seem to be the best racket for my serve get more speed and spin then other models according to my opponents . however its not the best at groundless not great but good with great feel.So to u guys which characteristic is most important to you when choosing a stick
 
satchmo_d said:
I attend a ton of matches here in the Atlanta area to watch my kids in their ALTA, USTA and high school matches. I can probably count on one hand the number of kids playing a Prince frame. That doesn’t bode well for the long term success of the brand.
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That's very ironical considering their HQ is supposedly in Atlanta (since 2014 after they moved out of bankruptcy). It's too bad that as a US-founded company it has such a small presence in the US at the moment. I don't know how their business model is, but it appears that in the US it's an exclusive license to TW. In Japan, where it seems the be the most popular/active, it almost appears to be handled by Prince directly - but I don't believe so, I think it has a licensee name attached in the Japan website.

The amount information, racquet choices (including Japan-only editions) in the Japan is mind-boggling. Almost couldn't believe it's the same company in the US. Maybe the profit margin/popularity is so much better in Japan that they produce so many of the Japan-only editions and other exclusives. Prices are around $340-$450. Ouch!

As much as I personally don't care about Pro endorsements, I think it matters to their brand's success/popularity. I wish they survive. I finally got my first Prince and liked the racquet, although the build quality is hmm, so-so (paint chips, peeling coating, squeaking handle).
 
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tennis4me said:
That's very ironical considering their HQ is supposedly in Atlanta (since 2014 after they moved out of bankruptcy). It's too bad that as a US-founded company it has such a small presence in the US at the moment. I don't know how their business model is, but it appears that in the US it's an exclusive license to TW. In Japan, where it seems the be the most popular/active, it almost appears to be a handled by Prince directly - but I don't believe so, I think it has a licensee name attached in the Japan website.

The amount information, racquet choices (including Japan-only editions) in the Japan is mind-boggling. Almost couldn't believe it's the same company in the US. Maybe the profit margin/popularity is so much better in Japan that they produce so many of the Japan-only editions and other exclusives. Prices are around $340-$450. Ouch!

As much as I personally don't care about Pro endorsements, I think it matters to their brand's success/popularity. I wish they survive. I finally got my first Prince and liked the racquet, although the build quality is hmm, so-so (paint chips, peeling coating, squeaking handle).
Click to expand...
Pro endorsements equal awareness. Broad distribution leads to familiarity and purchase. Quality of racquet, along with pro endorsements a d clear innovations leads to repetition and then ultimately loyalty.
 
Prince was so awesome! But now...
tumblr_mhtir2lMwf1rbv0tfo1_500.gifv
 
I grew up right near the original offices. We always had tons of their gear. I’ve never played with another brand after I got a Prince Pro as about a 10 year old. They’ve got some super frames that nobody knows about.
 
Here in Australia the market is dominated Babolat, Head and Wilson and on the rise is a Yonex. Beyond that it’s rest of the brands and that would be Tecnifibre, Volkl, Dunlop and Prince. Back in the 1980’s Prince was part of the big three brands.,
 
ZanderGoga said:
I have a lot of interest in their Phantom G series racquets with the crossbars. But no L5, no sale. Other brands will take my money.
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Given how easy it is to increase a grip size, this seems to be a silly reason to "vote with your wallet".

I think if you want Prince to succeed as a racket maker and like what they are doing with their frames you could give in a little.

PS: And the 107G is awesome. My favorite in the Phantom line.
 
tennis4me said:
That's very ironical considering their HQ is supposedly in Atlanta (since 2014 after they moved out of bankruptcy). It's too bad that as a US-founded company it has such a small presence in the US at the moment. I don't know how their business model is, but it appears that in the US it's an exclusive license to TW. In Japan, where it seems the be the most popular/active, it almost appears to be handled by Prince directly - but I don't believe so, I think it has a licensee name attached in the Japan website.

The amount information, racquet choices (including Japan-only editions) in the Japan is mind-boggling. Almost couldn't believe it's the same company in the US. Maybe the profit margin/popularity is so much better in Japan that they produce so many of the Japan-only editions and other exclusives. Prices are around $340-$450. Ouch!

As much as I personally don't care about Pro endorsements, I think it matters to their brand's success/popularity. I wish they survive. I finally got my first Prince and liked the racquet, although the build quality is hmm, so-so (paint chips, peeling coating, squeaking handle).
Click to expand...

the owner (investment group) does not care about anything now. they only care about how to sell this brand and asking too much money.
no one is interested in the brand because of a high price tag and they are more like licensing company.
they don't want to spend pro endorsement and limit product developments because it costs money.
Prince Japan is the most active branch and looks like they run independently. Probably, Prince is doing decent in Japan since they keep making decent products in Japan. In my opinion, US distribute right to TW created monopolized prince brand. that made many local tennis stores don't want to carry Prince items anymore. it will be good for TW but bad for the brand in my opinion. I don't know what is exact terms and conditions to carry prince items for local stores but something they don't like about it. I am curious about detail info too.

Regarding on the prices of rackets in Japan, Japanese racket prices are one of highest countries in the world. Typical MSRP is 32000 yen to 45000 yen.
this is not new. US prices caught the gap but still expensive in Japan.
Also, there are street prices so there is slight room to negotiate in Japan.

I think prince will be exactly same like now unless the owner sells the brand but I don't think it will happen anytime soon.
Looks like no one wants to buy at current price tag for the brand.
 
Authentic Brands Group which owns Prince Global Sports (but licenses its to Waitt group) isn't actually hurting since they own a ton of brands from Brooks Brothers to Volcom to Forever 21. They own image rights to Marilyn Munroe, Elvis Presley and Muhammid Ali. They could spend a few bucks on a sports star or two.
 
I am a Prince dealer and I recently heard from TW that sales are strong. It's nice that you all think that pro endorsements drive sales, but it is more the marketing push that does it. You all want Prince to become Babolat (#1 in sales for many years now)? Play a Babolat and a Prince side by side and I guarantee you buy Prince.
 
lefty10spro said:
I am a Prince dealer and I recently heard from TW that sales are strong. It's nice that you all think that pro endorsements drive sales, but it is more the marketing push that does it. You all want Prince to become Babolat (#1 in sales for many years now)? Play a Babolat and a Prince side by side and I guarantee you buy Prince.
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Where is your shop? Is there anything that you can talk about getting prince items since you are a prince dealer?
I don’t want to make false accusations to TW. I just want to hear facts but when TW became US distribution, I heard from local stores that they will not carry prince items because of terms and conditions.
Still many people rely on their local tennis stores but if they don’t carry prince items, Those people have no idea why they don’t see any prince items. There are many people who does not even know what the tennis warehouse is.
 
ZanderGoga said:
I have a lot of interest in their Phantom G series racquets with the crossbars. But no L5, no sale. Other brands will take my money.
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These grips are running large. My L3 Phantom 107G basically feels the same as other L4s. I suspect the L4 will feel close to an L5.
 
gooberwho said:
These grips are running large. My L3 Phantom 107G basically feels the same as other L4s. I suspect the L4 will feel close to an L5.
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Agree that Prince grips seem to run a little large now days. I've always got L4 Prince racquets (I've got 9 Prince sticks all up ) and my Phantom Pro 100 is my first L3 (no L4 in stock) and it is slightly larger than any of the L4 ones.

I must say that I also love the Prince grip shape, they've always been comfortable in my hand. I now put on overgrips the Pro way giving the 4 grip thick half inch ridge on the butt flare which makes the feel even better.
 
Rosstour said:
I always thought Prince were stupid. Their logos, typeface, names, oversize heads. I thought they were the Reebok or Adidas compared to the Nike of the racquet/bag game (Wilson). Just lame, as a child/junior their aesthetics always left me cold.

Not to mention my favorite pros (Sampras and Federer) were always Wilson guys.

But, here I am with a Prince racquet all these years later and I love it. Just an incredible racquet, does everything well and would have fit my game at any point in my life past 12 or so.
Click to expand...
What’d you get?
 
My collection of racquets includes 9 Prince, 1 Volkl, 1 Pro Kennex and 1 Wilson. You can see where my preferences lie!! Never owned a Babolat and have no intentions of ever getting one. Although I have a Babolat cap and towel LOL.
 
I currently play the older version of the Prince Phantom 100 with O3 ports. I absolutely love this racket as it has provided my with a ton of comfort, and I love the thin beam on the frame. The Textreme technology is underrated and extremely comfortable. I've demoed a few of their rackets and I did enjoy hitting with all of them, but my priority was comfort.
 
lefty10spro said:
I am a Prince dealer and I recently heard from TW that sales are strong. It's nice that you all think that pro endorsements drive sales, but it is more the marketing push that does it. You all want Prince to become Babolat (#1 in sales for many years now)? Play a Babolat and a Prince side by side and I guarantee you buy Prince.
Click to expand...
Curious to hear your thoughts on Prince's marketing / distribution strategy. I was in the corporate showroom store of TW's biggest U.S. competitor a couple of days ago. There was a gentleman in there who is getting back into the game after being away for a few years. While he was scanning the multitude of rackets on the two walls in the store I overheard him ask a staff member, "Where are the Prince rackets? That's what I used to play with." The staff member said he gets that question all the time and explained that Prince went into bankruptcy and was acquired by TW and TW makes it prohibitive for them to carry the Prince line. A quick online scan of other TW U.S. competitors and you see the same thing - no Prince rackets. It appears that in the U.S. you can only buy a Prince from TW or a get lower end model from one of the big box sporting good stores. I can see how that strategy would help differentiate TW, but I don't see how it would grow the Prince product line.
 
I suppose I can address the above questions. As a Prince dealer you do indeed buy from TW. Great service, terms and wholesale pricing with no minimums. I have convinced two other shops to reopen their Prince accounts. And since someone asked, my shop is in Haines City, FL. TW makes it prohibitive to carry the Prince line? You must be joking!!
 
lefty10spro said:
I am a Prince dealer and I recently heard from TW that sales are strong. It's nice that you all think that pro endorsements drive sales, but it is more the marketing push that does it. You all want Prince to become Babolat (#1 in sales for many years now)? Play a Babolat and a Prince side by side and I guarantee you buy Prince.
Click to expand...

thanks for the info! now all i have to do is wait for the ripstick demos to show up!
 
lefty10spro said:
I suppose I can address the above questions. As a Prince dealer you do indeed buy from TW. Great service, terms and wholesale pricing with no minimums. I have convinced two other shops to reopen their Prince accounts. And since someone asked, my shop is in Haines City, FL. TW makes it prohibitive to carry the Prince line? You must be joking!!
Click to expand...

i suspect TW is only interested in cornering the online market in the US and is happy to have brick and mortar shops carrying the brand. It’s a way of getting the brand in the eyes of consumers.

That being said I don’t think I’ve seen Prince in any mom and pop shops in Palm Desert in a long while. But I don’t see PK or VolkL much either.
 
I wish TW would offer free demos of prince sticks in the same manner that they did for the new radicals for example. Prince rackets are very inaccessible and if you try to demo with other rackets you are waiting over a month.
 
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Open Stance said:
Curious to hear your thoughts on Prince's marketing / distribution strategy. I was in the corporate showroom store of TW's biggest U.S. competitor a couple of days ago. There was a gentleman in there who is getting back into the game after being away for a few years. While he was scanning the multitude of rackets on the two walls in the store I overheard him ask a staff member, "Where are the Prince rackets? That's what I used to play with." The staff member said he gets that question all the time and explained that Prince went into bankruptcy and was acquired by TW and TW makes it prohibitive for them to carry the Prince line. A quick online scan of other TW U.S. competitors and you see the same thing - no Prince rackets. It appears that in the U.S. you can only buy a Prince from TW or a get lower end model from one of the big box sporting good stores. I can see how that strategy would help differentiate TW, but I don't see how it would grow the Prince product line.
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Prince wasn’t acquired by TW. Prince is held by a company that licenses out by region through a licensing agreement. TW is a licensee of Prince and has rights for the NA market ( I don’t know the terms or if there is any exclusivity granted by region).

This makes TW a licensee. Not a ‘distributer’. TW is responsible for sourcing, purchasing, logistics, marketing, sales, shipments ... the full supply chain. Including any dealer network development. Again, i don’t know the terms of the licensing agreement.... maybe they get some corporate branding marketing development dollars (like sponsorships) or promotional. I’m guessing again that the Licensor / Prince has responsibility for product design and potential supplier qualification, but does not own the terms between licensee and supplier.

This is why you see different **** going on in each licensee territory. I.e. Japan.

Edit: for those not on the racketaholic thread.... when some of us listened to the podcast the Nerd had with the lead Prince designer, this is what I meant when I said “licensing companies have some limitations... I’m worried a bit about the brand”. But all things have pro’s and cons. Not all licensees end up being good brand ambassadors.... it seems TW is one however.... I’m just guessing a lot because i know how stuff works but have no idea how buttoned up that licensing agreement is. Tons of things that can be ‘crap creating issues’ when you’re not an operating company.
 
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aussie said:
Agree that Prince grips seem to run a little large now days. I've always got L4 Prince racquets (I've got 9 Prince sticks all up ) and my Phantom Pro 100 is my first L3 (no L4 in stock) and it is slightly larger than any of the L4 ones.
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Dartagnan64 said:
Agree that my 107G is the largest L3 in my bag. Very similar in size to my older L4 Phantom 93P.
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Glad to see that I wasn't imagining things when I felt the Prince L1 was slightly larger than the HEAD L1 (Also feels a shade more rectangular than the TK82s). I'd say current Prince grips are a half size larger than HEAD.
 
tennis4me said:
The amount information, racquet choices (including Japan-only editions) in the Japan is mind-boggling. Almost couldn't believe it's the same company in the US. Maybe the profit margin/popularity is so much better in Japan that they produce so many of the Japan-only editions and other exclusives. Prices are around $340-$450. Ouch!
Click to expand...

Is there something special about these $400 Prince racquets? Why are Japanese buying them?
 
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Crocodile said:
There are some changes happening with Prince in Australia with regards to distribution/ licensee.
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@Crocodile any chance you can expand on this? I generally get my Prince gear from TO but I got my Pro 100 from a dealer in northern NSW. The owner of that store did tell me that he was expecting to get a lot more Prince gear in this year so maybe that?
 
aussie said:
@Crocodile any chance you can expand on this? I generally get my Prince gear from TO but I got my Pro 100 from a dealer in northern NSW. The owner of that store did tell me that he was expecting to get a lot more Prince gear in this year so maybe that?
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I know who you are referring to but it’s not that, it’s a major general sports chain in Australia that will get involved.
 
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