How long do you practice serve per lesson?

hieu1811

Rookie
I'm trying to learn topspin serve and still take 1 - 2 hours lesson for 4-5 times per week.

What I notice is that after hitting a bucket ~100 balls ~ 20-30 minutes, i start to get some fatique and my body gets stiffer. Even though the coach told me to relax my hip, my shoulder, i could not.

Just afraid that there will be diminishing return or even to the point of negative return if I keep serving with a stiff body, that may hamper the technique.

On a side question, anybody do topspin smash at baseline if the opponent lob deeper to the baseline? Should i try to do that?
 

dct693

Semi-Pro
I don't have a hopper of balls, so I take about 6 balls and serve them. Then go to the other side of the court, retrieve them, then serve again, and repeat. It's obviously less convenient, but it allows the arm and body to get some rest before serving again. Doing it this way, I can easily last an hour or more of serving.

If you serve while tired, you could consider it part of your training, but if you don't have the technique down, then you're not "burning" the proper form into your muscles and potentially doing more harm than good.

I never attempt a topspin smash from the baseline. I feel that you need a shot that will travel through the court very quickly and I just aim higher over the net since I don't have to worry about getting it in the box.
 

mbm0912

Hall of Fame
I don't have a hopper of balls, so I take about 6 balls and serve them. Then go to the other side of the court, retrieve them, then serve again, and repeat. It's obviously less convenient, but it allows the arm and body to get some rest before serving again. Doing it this way, I can easily last an hour or more of serving.

If you serve while tired, you could consider it part of your training, but if you don't have the technique down, then you're not "burning" the proper form into your muscles and potentially doing more harm than good.

I never attempt a topspin smash from the baseline. I feel that you need a shot that will travel through the court very quickly and I just aim higher over the net since I don't have to worry about getting it in the box.
I have a hopper and still prefer to serve this way. Rest for a second and regroup on your walk to the other side.
 

Lukhas

Legend
I start in the service box and work my way back. Around 2 buckets of balls, I start to feel a bit more tired, the quality of my serve degrades and I stop. So yeah, if you're working on technique, I'd say as soon as you see the quality of your shots dropping, even if you don't feel tired too much, I think you should stop.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
about an hour... 2-3x/week... probably 3 buckets (~225 balls)
 

Doc Hollidae

Hall of Fame
I'm trying to learn topspin serve and still take 1 - 2 hours lesson for 4-5 times per week.

What I notice is that after hitting a bucket ~100 balls ~ 20-30 minutes, i start to get some fatique and my body gets stiffer. Even though the coach told me to relax my hip, my shoulder, i could not.

Just afraid that there will be diminishing return or even to the point of negative return if I keep serving with a stiff body, that may hamper the technique.

On a side question, anybody do topspin smash at baseline if the opponent lob deeper to the baseline? Should i try to do that?

Like anything else, if you are fatigued, you won't get the same results. That said, it may be more of an issue of fitness than technique?

Baseline overheads are one of my favorite shots. It's not the highest percentage shot, but its fun to hit.
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
I'm trying to learn topspin serve and still take 1 - 2 hours lesson for 4-5 times per week.

What I notice is that after hitting a bucket ~100 balls ~ 20-30 minutes, i start to get some fatique and my body gets stiffer. Even though the coach told me to relax my hip, my shoulder, i could not.

Just afraid that there will be diminishing return or even to the point of negative return if I keep serving with a stiff body, that may hamper the technique.

On a side question, anybody do topspin smash at baseline if the opponent lob deeper to the baseline? Should i try to do that?
HIEU, Do you like your shoulder ??? Do you want to give yourself surgery.... down the road.
You cannot serve that much and not mess up your shoulder joint. The shoulder is the most unstable joint in the body and you are over doing it , big time.
I recommend you cut it back. Serve 3 times a week tops and serve under 1 hour.
You are going to cause long term shoulder damage.
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
NO that is not a shot for club players. Just hit the ball back with top spin and move inside the baseline after. If he continues to lob it back you can step up and try to take it out of the air but do not do a overhead smash from the baseline.
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
Remember on the kick serve to always toss the ball at or in front of the baseline!! Never toss behind the baseline because you get zero power.
 

hieu1811

Rookie
HIEU, Do you like your shoulder ??? Do you want to give yourself surgery.... down the road.
You cannot serve that much and not mess up your shoulder joint. The shoulder is the most unstable joint in the body and you are over doing it , big time.
I recommend you cut it back. Serve 3 times a week tops and serve under 1 hour.
You are going to cause long term shoulder damage.

Thanks, i notice i might have some early sign of rotator cuff ( some slight pain on the bad serve if i do not let my right shoulder loose). Right now i decide to exert only 30% force on each serve to 1) concentrate more on the swing and body awareness 2) reduce shoulder stress. With this i no longer feel mild pain on today session. Fatique... Yes, i play with the coach for 2 hours. I will provably try to keep it at 30% for the next 1-2 months to see how my technique progress.

I will also try to do throwers 10 exercises at least twice a week to strengthen my shoulder.

Oh i mean i do not serve continuously for 2 hours. More like forehand backhand 1 hour, volley 0.5 hour, serve 0.5 hour.

My current practice lesson is 2 hours on Mon, Wed, Fri and 1 hour on Tues and Thurs with another coach. Double game with friend on Sat.

Sunday i do stairs climbing at home ~ 60 floors ~ 1,000 steps. During weekday i will try to do some throwers 10.
 
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hieu1811

Rookie
Behind you means to the left of you!!!!
NOT behind the baseline

Thank you. I notice in my other serve thread that people comment that i serve behind my body on my right too much. I'm currently working on this and i believe i can make some progress in the next 2 months.
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
YES I always thought behind you meant behind the baseline but it means to the left of you and not behind the baseline!!
Very odd but you cannot serve tossing the ball behind the baseline.
Just toss it slightly to the left so its above your head hit with power and spin.
On your flat you want to toss more into the court but both serves land in front of court.

What age and level play are you.
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
YES I always thought behind you meant behind the baseline but it means to the left of you and not behind the baseline!!
Very odd but you cannot serve tossing the ball behind the baseline.
Just toss it slightly to the left so its above your head hit with power and spin.
On your flat you want to toss more into the court but both serves land in front of court.

What age and level play are you.

Your ball toss is wrong. Look at the pictures of pros. There's so many video and different angles, that words shouldn't matter.

Like dg44 said, i consider toss that lands on baseline to be heavy topspin serve, good for 2nd serve. Toss that lands 1 foot (or 12 inches for other peeps) to be good for 1st serve. Any more like 2 feet makes it impossible to hit any spin on the serve. It's individual preference, so you need to experiment with the toss and combo of spin/pace that you like.

It shouldn't take you a few months to fix the toss. You really shouldn't be practicing spin serves if your toss is bad. Because you can't hit good servs with bad toss. Spend a few mintues every day practicing your toss. If you don't understand where the toss should be, you need to know this first!!

You CANNOT hit spin serves with bad toss.
You CANNOT hit spin serves if you don't know where to toss.
 
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hieu1811

Rookie
I know that my ball toss is wrong. Previously I had difficulty hitting up when I toss the ball inside the court. After studying my serve frame to frame, i think what i did wrong is to follow this Feel Tennis Instruction clip of "how to hit fast tennis serve"
Serve.jpg


Basically I let the racquet drop swing too much to my right hand side, and therefore can only hit from right to left direction. With that, i found it very difficult to hit up balls in front of me, and somehow i choose the quick way out of tossing the ball to my right to hit it up. Now I think this Feel Tennis Instruction tip is only working for flat/ slice serve. Somehow in the comment section, he said that it works fine for kick serve as well. But judging from this picture, how on earth can you hit up a ball on your left shoulder while your racquet is 180 degree the other way ???

So now, I need to alter my swing path to prevent swinging to my right hand shoulder too much and hit from left to right, and I'm trying to swing slowly to adapt to this new swing path. The new coach also said that i have other problems such as 1) not relax my right shoulder and let it move forward 2) not relax my hip 3) my feet, especially positioning and direction of right feet is wrong, so it leads to a funny right leg kick back and raise up when I jump.

So previously, i tried to exert 70-80% force on serve. Now there are too much to change, and i just slowly hit with 30% force to learn the new technique and get better feel of the contact point.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
I know that my ball toss is wrong. Previously I had difficulty hitting up when I toss the ball inside the court. After studying my serve frame to frame, i think what i did wrong is to follow this Feel Tennis Instruction clip of "how to hit fast tennis serve"
Serve.jpg


Basically I let the racquet drop swing too much to my right hand side, and therefore can only hit from right to left direction. With that, i found it very difficult to hit up balls in front of me, and somehow i choose the quick way out of tossing the ball to my right to hit it up. Now I think this Feel Tennis Instruction tip is only working for flat/ slice serve. Somehow in the comment section, he said that it works fine for kick serve as well. But judging from this picture, how on earth can you hit up a ball on your left shoulder while your racquet is 180 degree the other way ???

So now, I need to alter my swing path to prevent swinging to my right hand shoulder too much and hit from left to right, and I'm trying to swing slowly to adapt to this new swing path. The new coach also said that i have other problems such as 1) not relax my right shoulder and let it move forward 2) not relax my hip 3) my feet, especially positioning and direction of right feet is wrong, so it leads to a funny right leg kick back and raise up when I jump.

So previously, i tried to exert 70-80% force on serve. Now there are too much to change, and i just slowly hit with 30% force to learn the new technique and get better feel of the contact point.
I don't see anything wrong with the Feel Tennis Instruction clip... he specifically says you need to time the drop/swing with the shoulder rotation. Flat serve you rotate fully (eg. chest to target), slice serve you rotate less, top/kick serve you rotate even less.

The hint about not relaxing & starting position might be a clue as why you find varying your shoulder rotation challenging.

As everyone else said, you can't serve well without a good consistent toss (in the right location). Even now when I practice, I pay the most attention to my toss. If I'm tossing well, I have all the time I need to build my power sources (knee bend, shoulder tilt, shoulder turn, etc...). When my toss is off, even by a little, I'm compromising at least one of my power sources. For me, getting my serve all perfectly aligned is like hitting the perfect golf shot, or hitting someone with a clean cross... it's effortless perfection :p

Video would help.... I promise not to steal it and republish it to make millions :)
 
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dct693

Semi-Pro
One more thing to mention: I find that topspin/kick serves are VERY tiring because of the racquet head speed required. I find it much less fatiguing to hit flat/slice serves. So in your practice, hit for less time if you're just doing topspin serves.
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
I know that my ball toss is wrong. Previously I had difficulty hitting up when I toss the ball inside the court. After studying my serve frame to frame, i think what i did wrong is to follow this Feel Tennis Instruction clip of "how to hit fast tennis serve"

Multiple things wrong with what you said in that little paragraph. Don't blame Feel Tennis because what he said is fine and not the cause of your problems. Your issues:

1. "How to hit FAST tennis serve" when you don't even know how to serve properly.

2. Self-diagnosis.

3. Deflecting your poor ball toss and blaming something else.

4. Self-coaching.

5. Watching Youtube vids.

Like I said (and dct693 too), there's nothing wrong with what he said. It's beginners that watch youtube vids and self-coach, and that's why I don't recommend beginners to do so. Better players can watch that vid and understand what he is trying to say. Beginners watch it, and you get ..., well, non-sense. Who told you to change the toss location? Surely not him. Left shoulder? I've never heard him mention this in the video. Or anyone else in relation to the toss for a topspin serve. It's folly if you think you can change what you want and still have a topspin serve.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
When someone lobs deep to your baseline, let it bounce once, then hit a slice overhead. A slice overhead is easier to hit than a topspin overhead, because you need only get to one side of the ball, not under and behind like you need for a true topspin overhead. A safe overhead is NOT a second serve, it's a slice overhead with reduced speed but lots of sidespin.
Never practice until your arm or body get's tired. On serves, it's important to practice fresh and all out, since that's how you serve. If you insist on practicing serve past the initial "tired" point, your match serves will all be tired and slow, lacking explosiveness.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
"Throw it behind you" is ONLY for twist serves, where you swing is up and outwards, to the side, so the ball goes in, and jumps the opposite direction.
For flat, topspin, tops/slice, and pure slice, you don't toss behind you.
 

LakeSnake

Professional
When someone lobs deep to your baseline, let it bounce once, then hit a slice overhead. A slice overhead is easier to hit than a topspin overhead, because you need only get to one side of the ball, not under and behind like you need for a true topspin overhead. A safe overhead is NOT a second serve, it's a slice overhead with reduced speed but lots of sidespin.
Never practice until your arm or body get's tired. On serves, it's important to practice fresh and all out, since that's how you serve. If you insist on practicing serve past the initial "tired" point, your match serves will all be tired and slow, lacking explosiveness.
I've never heard of a slice overhead. What is the advantage of this?
 

Laver777

Rookie
Im trying to practice more. But no more than 30mins at a time usually. I try to just get a good rythm going to where I feel confident and have good timing. Anything much beyond half an hour a day I feel is ridiculous.
 
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