How long does it take to achieve a UTR 13, is it too late?

#1
A colleague of mine at work asked me this question today and I didn't know how to answer it so I am going to throw it out here for discussion.

He has an adopted son, African American kid, who is 12 years old. Both his birth father and mother were five star college athletes in football and swimming but the mother got pregnant in her sophomore year so she gave him up for adoption. This kid was adopted by my coworker as a baby. He is currently about 6 feet tall and weighed about 165. Doctor says that he will max out around 6 feet 3'. He has tremendous quick hand and feet and eye hand coordination is exceptional. He has been playing football since he was 9 years old. I saw him run a 40 yards dash a month ago in under 5 seconds. He goes to the same physical training facility as my kids four times a week. Even at 12 years old, I can see something very special about him. His body is built like a football receiver.

Because of the high risk of injury in football and concussion, his dad wants him to play tennis instead. The dad asked me if it is possible for a 12 years old raw athlete to achieve UTR 13 by the time he turns 15 or 16. The main goal is to get him out of football. His dad can afford tennis lesson for him twice a week.

Is it possible to get a UTR 13 or higher for someone to start tennis @12? I guess anything is possible but is it realistic?
 
#4
He can achieve UTR 13 but not in 3-4 years.

More like 10.

J

Really? so his DNA athleticism does not matter, that both his birth father and mother were athletes? His body type is very similar to Boris Becker, in that he is generally taller than kids who are 15 and 16 years old.

How many private lessons does he need per week in order to achieve UTR 13 when he turns 16?
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
#5
Really? so his DNA athleticism does not matter, that both his birth father and mother were athletes? His body type is very similar to Boris Becker, in that he is generally taller than kids who are 15 and 16 years old.

How many private lessons does he need per week in order to achieve UTR 13 when he turns 16?
It's not a question of number of lessons, there just isn't enough time in 4 years to hit enough balls to be a 13. Most people playing their entire life don't make it to 13. 13 UTR is a good D1 player and borderline futures circuit player, to achieve that at 16 is rare if you started at 5.

J

J
 
#6
It's not a question of number of lessons, there just isn't enough time in 4 years to hit enough balls to be a 13. Most people playing their entire life don't make it to 13. 13 UTR is a good D1 player and borderline futures circuit player, to achieve that at 16 is rare if you started at 5.
I was hoping you would say, yes it is possible :). Yes, it is true that most people playing their entire life don't make it to 13 but most people do not have both birth father and mother as five star athletes either. I mean the kid is just a super freak in term of physical specimen and athletic ability. He has things that you can not teach. You are either born with it or not.

Good thing is that he was born in the month of November and he starts school early so there is a strong possibility that he will take off one year prior to starting high school. Where we work, his dad is applying for the company AA special education fund. If that gets approved, the company will provide a one time 28k for him to attend any school of his choice. His dad might put in another 15k to send him to Saddle Brook full time to train there for one year.

Will that get him to UTR 13 by the time he finishes at Saddle Brook?
 
#7
to add @J011yroger
(gleaned over the years) everyone i know/hit with, that was utr 13... have been playing since they were 5.
by age 12 they were already utr 9ish
then they hit their growth spurt, and became that much more physically dominant (boosting the their utr to 10+ just by how much faster than could more and hit)

that said, if i were in charge of his development, and he was gonna go for it anyway...
he'd hit 2x a day for 1.5-2h each... 4-5x a week
ideally lesson/drill in the AM, match/points in the pm (using applying whatever learned in AM)
tournaments on the weekends
clean diet, active recovery (yoga, ice baths, stretching, etc,...) - preventing (repetitive stress) injury is probably the biggest issue with this compressed timeline

i think there is precedent for pros (in the past) that started as late as early teens

my $0.02
 

Dags

Professional
#8
For a little context, the top women in the world are rated as UTR 13. Why the rush to get so good so quickly? If he were 'only' to become UTR 10 or 11 by the time he was 16, would this be considered a worthless venture?
 
#10
if you do the math for the proverbial 10k hours to mastery...
10,000 / 4h per day ~ 2500d
2500d / 365d per year ~ 6.8y

but let's say his "talent" buys him a 30% reduction in hours to mastery
7000/4 ~ 1750
1750/365 ~ 4.7y

:p
 
#13
Imagine doing something you absolutely suck at 4 hours per day every day?

J
being a fairly talentless guy... i've spent many hours doing things i suck at, hoping to get better,... no need to imagine :p
funny, my kid asked me yesterday, "what is our family gifted for?" (ie. strength, speed, intelligence, height, etc...)
my response, "nothing. that's why we have to work harder than everyone else to be successful."
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
#14
being a fairly talentless guy... i've spent many hours doing things i suck at, hoping to get better,... no need to imagine :p
funny, my kid asked me yesterday, "what is our family gifted for?" (ie. strength, speed, intelligence, height, etc...)
my response, "nothing. that's why we have to work harder than everyone else to be successful."
That's funny, I always thought I had no talent, but it turned out that I had the best one. Too bad I didn't realize it until I was 35.

J
 
#16
Getting that kid to UTR 13 will require a lot more than 2 lessons per week considering the top of the nationally ranked Boys 16 are between 12.6 and 12.9, so the bottom half of UTR 13. I doubt the kids in the top 10 are not every bit as talented and athletic as this kid. Why is UTR 13 by 16 the magic number?
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
#17
Getting that kid to UTR 13 will require a lot more than 2 lessons per week considering the top of the nationally ranked Boys 16 are between 12.6 and 12.9, so the bottom half of UTR 13. I doubt the kids in the top 10 are not every bit as talented and athletic as this kid. Why is UTR 13 by 16 the magic number?
Because he wants to be as good as the best while doing less than half the work.

J
 
#18
forgot to add,... playing tennis to get the kid out of football, in and itself is probably a worthy endeavor (avoid all that nasty heady injury stuff)....
but given the specific level & timeline in which they want to go, i suspect OP's colleague was thinking, "let me replace football scholarship with tennis scholarship (or admission to <good school>)".
well, that's an interesting investment strategy, which falls under the philosophy of buy-more-lottery-tickets-plan-of-retirement.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
#19
forgot to add,... playing tennis to get the kid out of football, in and itself is probably a worthy endeavor (avoid all that nasty heady injury stuff)....
but given the specific level & timeline in which they want to go, i suspect OP's colleague was thinking, "let me replace football scholarship with tennis scholarship".
well, that's an interesting investment strategy, which falls under the philosophy of buy-more-lottery-tickets-plan-of-retirement.
Especially since most DI schools have 3.5 tennis scholarships to give out and you have to compete against foreign players.

J
 
#20
Really? so his DNA athleticism does not matter, that both his birth father and mother were athletes?
Tennis is more of a fine motor skill sport than football. The athleticism will help, but it won't be nearly the same advantage it is for football. And as someone already mentioned, you've selected a level where everyone will be very talented.

Frankly, it's sort of a silly question. You're asking for the odds of a really far-fetched scenario, and basically just trying to convince people to agree with you :)

Especially since most DI schools have 3.5 tennis scholarships to give out and you have to compete against foreign players.
I think it's 4.5 now, but I could be wrong. The point is spot on though. If you are just going scholarship fishing this isn't the best plan. Track/CC offer more scholarships, and he's at much less of a disadvantage than tennis with his late start. Training for them is a much less expensive venture too. Heck, he might be better off trying for scholarship outside of D1 in basketball if he's going to be 6'3. I imagine he's already got some experience there, but you'll have to get plugged into some AAU events ASAP. Basketball coaches like to have their guys picked out early, but if he's going lower there can be options.

It's probably worth mentioning that you aren't going to get a full ride for anything outside of a head count sport, and even then it's a tall task.
 
#21
forgot to add,... playing tennis to get the kid out of football, in and itself is probably a worthy endeavor (avoid all that nasty heady injury stuff)....
but given the specific level & timeline in which they want to go, i suspect OP's colleague was thinking, "let me replace football scholarship with tennis scholarship (or admission to <good school>)".
well, that's an interesting investment strategy, which falls under the philosophy of buy-more-lottery-tickets-plan-of-retirement.
It is not about replacing football scholarship with tennis scholarship. His dad already set aside about 250k for him for college expenses. It is about going to a good university.

Tennis is more of a fine motor skill sport than football. The athleticism will help, but it won't be nearly the same advantage it is for football. And as someone already mentioned, you've selected a level where everyone will be very talented.

Frankly, it's sort of a silly question. You're asking for the odds of a really far-fetched scenario, and basically just trying to convince people to agree with you :)
I am not trying to convince you to agree with me :). I did some research and found out that Sloane Stephens didn't start playing tennis until she was 9 years old. Her father was a NFL player and mother was a D1 swimmer. I know one UTR 13 player from JTCC in college park Maryland who is almost 17 years old but that kid is not as freakish as this 12 years old.

My colleague and I will be going to a business conference next week in CA and we're going to bring him to a tennis academy there for a few days so that they can assess his potential.

Btw, his birth father killed himself last year. Everyone suspected that he had CTE from playing football.
 
#22
It is not about replacing football scholarship with tennis scholarship. His dad already set aside about 250k for him for college expenses. It is about going to a good university.



I am not trying to convince you to agree with me :). I did some research and found out that Sloane Stephens didn't start playing tennis until she was 9 years old. Her father was a NFL player and mother was a D1 swimmer. I know one UTR 13 player from JTCC in college park Maryland who is almost 17 years old but that kid is not as freakish as this 12 years old.

My colleague and I will be going to a business conference next week in CA and we're going to bring him to a tennis academy there for a few days so that they can assess his potential.

Btw, his birth father killed himself last year. Everyone suspected that he had CTE from playing football.
What are they going to assess if he doesn't already play?
 
#23
What are they going to assess if he doesn't already play?
Don't these places have some kind of assessment test for potential students? Things like footwork, agility, power, strength, endurance, mental toughness, and Wonderlic test. Like NFL combine.

I am going to call a few tennis academies in CA to find out if it is doable.
 
#24
You should read about the Ajax academy. Their scouts speak to the issue of kids being freakish (your term, not one I would choose). Parents get really excited about an amazing athlete, but the scouts recognize the kid is simply bigger than the other kids. The professional scouts, they look for a kid that understands the game.

Edit: Also American football is probably the only sport obsessed with physical stats.
 
#25
Don't these places have some kind of assessment test for potential students? Things like footwork, agility, power, strength, endurance, mental toughness, and Wonderlic test. Like NFL combine.

I am going to call a few tennis academies in CA to find out if it is doable.
Maybe get him some privates with one of their coaches and see how he takes to the game. Does the kid really want to play tennis?
 
#26
I did some research and found out that Sloane Stephens didn't start playing tennis until she was 9 years old. Her father was a NFL player and mother was a D1 swimmer. I know one UTR 13 player from JTCC in college park Maryland who is almost 17 years old but that kid is not as freakish as this 12 years old.
FYI athleticism alone won't make him a great tennis player. That 17 year old has spent probably a decade mastering his skills. If UTR 13 by the age of 16 is the goal, there simply isn't enough time for someone to hone their craft that fast unless they are specifically a tennis prodigy. Sloane starting at the age of 9 is worlds different than starting at the age of 12. If getting a scholarship to a good school is what you're aiming for, I'd look into other team sports with more scholarships. Basketball might be the best bet. You'd get a full ride and many top schools, such as the Ivy Leagues*, are pretty lenient on grades when recruiting players.

*The Ivy Leagues don't have scholarships but they give "financial aid" that basically equates to an athletic scholarship
 
#27
I think a talented athletic player can get to UTR 13 maybe by age 17 or 18 if starting at 13. Kids with normal talent, I would say at least 7 years, but with this kid's genetics could take 5 years. To reach a UTR 13, player must have natural talent, best coaches, good mindset, fire-really want it-not parents want it, hours of practice plus hours of matchplay. He cant get to UTR 13 unless he is playing a lot of 12+s. As an earlier poster commented, the top boys 16s are around 13 and most are those are homeschooled and/or spending a lot of $ to attend academies. The parent must be willing to invest $20K minimum a year since he is getting a late start. Some boarding academies charge $2000/wk. Even some top local academies may charge $2000/mo for training not including travel and am not sure if that includes home school/virtual academy fee. The top junior players start playing ITFs from age 13 on. Some families even move to Florida so kids can train. However, the cheaper way to go about it is for player to train 13 hours a week (1hr per year of age) with best local coaches with a mix of privates, drills, conditioning and matchplay with about 80 competitive matches a year on weekends or during week long summer tournaments. Once he gets to UTR 11, start paying other kids, college players, post grad players to hit with him.

It will be harder to get to utR 13 in the future. You cant reach UtR 13 unless you are having competitive matches with players in the 12.5-13.5 range or totally dominating in the low 12s or lower (e.g. allowing 4 or less games). The ITF pro circuit has cut draws and tournaments-that used to be a way to ensure you'd get a few matches vs 13.5-14+s. Now to play a 13, a junior will have to be in final rounds of National 1s or high level jr ITFs-both mean a lot of travel and expense. Aim to hit UTR 13 by winter/spring of junior year, and if he is smart and wants to leverage tennis to get in an Ivy, a 13 by then should do it. However, has he considered lacrosse, crew, basketball ,etc? There are a lot of sports played in the Ivys and/or at other top academic schools.

I am a parent of a player who is occasionally UTR 13-you can get to a 13 but it is hard to stay there even if winning the majority of matches because players have to play a lot of lower matches to get to the rounds with the 13+ matches, and few players bring their A game every time. My son went to regular high school, started playing state/sectional level tournaments at age 11, and hit UTR 13 winter of his senior year. However, height and size is a big advantage, and when my son grew 6 inches in 2 years late in his HS career, he started defeating some guys who used to beat him easily. This young man with his height and athletic advantage, if he follows all the required steps, could be a top junior player in 5 years-hard to see it happening in 2-3 years. He may be as big as the 15-16 years olds but he probably wont have the mental advantage. EVen with good hand eye, footwork, etc, he has to learn specific skills, then strategies and patterns. Most kids who are UTR 13s have played 500+ tournament matches and won 70%+ of them.
 
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#29
Because of the high risk of injury in football and concussion, his dad wants him to play tennis instead. The dad asked me if it is possible for a 12 years old raw athlete to achieve UTR 13 by the time he turns 15 or 16. The main goal is to get him out of football. His dad can afford tennis lesson for him twice a week.

Is it possible to get a UTR 13 or higher for someone to start tennis @12? I guess anything is possible but is it realistic?
Any idea if he REALLY wants to play tennis? If he doesn't, the rest of it probably won't matter much.

Then it will be interesting to see if he REALLY wants to get to UTR 13.
 
#31
FYI athleticism alone won't make him a great tennis player. That 17 year old has spent probably a decade mastering his skills. If UTR 13 by the age of 16 is the goal, there simply isn't enough time for someone to hone their craft that fast unless they are specifically a tennis prodigy. Sloane starting at the age of 9 is worlds different than starting at the age of 12. If getting a scholarship to a good school is what you're aiming for, I'd look into other team sports with more scholarships. Basketball might be the best bet. You'd get a full ride and many top schools, such as the Ivy Leagues*, are pretty lenient on grades when recruiting players.
Why do people always associate basketball, low grade with AA people? What a racist comment. His mom and dad already set aside more than enough for his future tuition.

It takes years to develop a good serve
That's true unless you're a freakish by nature.


any idea if he REALLY wants to play tennis?
I have no idea. I saw him at one of the "take your kid to work day" and the kid said that he will do whatever his mom and dad ask of him because he knows they are looking out for his best interest
 
#34
I am a parent of a player who is occasionally UTR 13-you can get to a 13 but it is hard to stay there even if winning the majority of matches because players have to play a lot of lower matches to get to the rounds with the 13+ matches, and few players bring their A game every time. My son went to regular high school, started playing state/sectional level tournaments at age 11, and hit UTR 13 winter of his senior year. However, height and size is a big advantage, and when my son grew 6 inches in 2 years late in his HS career, he started defeating some guys who used to beat him easily. This young man with his height and athletic advantage, if he follows all the required steps, could be a top junior player in 5 years-hard to see it happening in 2-3 years. He may be as big as the 15-16 years olds but he probably wont have the mental advantage. EVen with good hand eye, footwork, etc, he has to learn specific skills, then strategies and patterns. Most kids who are UTR 13s have played 500+ tournament matches and won 70%+ of them.
What about the fact that the dad knows what UTR is but is otherwise clueless about tennis?

J
I have no idea. I saw him at one of the "take your kid to work day" and the kid said that he will do whatever his mom and dad ask of him because he knows they are looking out for his best interest
In that case, find a parent like @jcgatennismom and ask them what it takes.
I think a talented athletic player can get to UTR 13 maybe by age 17 or 18 if starting at 13. Kids with normal talent, I would say at least 7 years, but with this kid's genetics could take 5 years. To reach a UTR 13, player must have natural talent, best coaches, good mindset, fire-really want it-not parents want it,
I see JCG already made my point before I posted.

This is the poster you want to talk to OP. Try to PM (her) and see if (she'll) answer your questions. (She's) lived it.
 
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#35
I would say it's not impossible, just a very very long process and training everyday for at least 4 hrs. Is he home schooled? A lot of players that have succeeded in the tennis world had families that were already involved in tennis and could use those resources to advance their kids to the next level. He would have to work on footwork drills, develop strokes, and then develop some serious weapons to compete. Basically it's a huge sacrifice and then you have to hope he doesn't get burned out with tournaments, training, and travel. And then there are the financials of funding all this. If he works with a coach your paying 60 plus an hour and then you have to practice after that hour on your own. You could possibly do clinics or junior academies which if he is not a good player he will get put on the bottom level and well then it's not productive for your goal of utr13. Could go to an academy but the same thing with talent will happen there, if your not a top prospect you are not hitting with other good level players. So best guess is if he is serious the parents better research and see if the long term goal can be funded and if his son is willing to make that kind of a sacrifice.
 
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#36
Well that makes more sense, so what did his dad actually ask you?J
Background to the story: His birth father killed himself not too long ago (haven't told the kid yet) and they suspected that he had brain damage while playing football in college. My coworker got scared and convinced the 12 years old to stop playing football and he agreed. Since a lot of people in the company played college tennis and he sees pictures of my kids playing tennis on the wall so he asks me how long it would take for his 12 years old to be good and use it as an vehicle to get into a good college. I told the dad that his kid is so athletically gifted, he will become a UTR 13 D1 college player when he turns either 16 or 17.

my coworker and his wife are empty nesters. His wife put the 12 years old on a Tom Brady 12 diet since last year. He is only 12 years old but already has a 34 inches in verical leap. He also has very long arms.

They plan to home school him at the beginning of the year 2019. Because he starts school early, they plan on taking about a year of prior to starting high school and send him to Saddlebrook academy to train there for a year, assume that the company approves the 28k grant because he is AA.

He is already training 2.5 hours M-F on footwork, agility, strength, endurance. He spends 4 hours on Saturday and 4 hours on Sunday with a personal trainer and pilates trainer to avoid injury. I wish my kids work as hard as this kid.
 
#37
It is not about replacing football scholarship with tennis scholarship. His dad already set aside about 250k for him for college expenses. It is about going to a good university.
Thanks for the clarification because it seemed odd with the arbitrary UTR target. Athletics can help them relax the requirements for acceptance, but it's tough competition.

Edit: Also American football is probably the only sport obsessed with physical stats.
Agreed. As I mentioned these physical attributes are not good indicators of success in tennis. Truthfully, they're questionable indicators in football, and that's when they're testing high school seniors.

Sloane starting at the age of 9 is worlds different than starting at the age of 12. If getting a scholarship to a good school is what you're aiming for, I'd look into other team sports with more scholarships. Basketball might be the best bet. You'd get a full ride and many top schools, such as the Ivy Leagues*, are pretty lenient on grades when recruiting players.
Agreed on all counts.

Why do people always associate basketball, low grade with AA people? What a racist comment.
You're making a leap between his factual statements and some sort of racial bias. I read nothing inappropriate or inaccurate in VR's response.

Anyhow, again as I mentioned, tennis is a tough route due to the low number of scholarships. Going with sports that offer more scholarships (basketball is one of the higher) will allow him to have a better chance of fully utilizing his physical gifts and to benefit from the relaxed entry requirements that some exclusive schools have.

That's true unless you're a freakish by nature.
It's still going to take years. You're vastly underestimating how much being athletic will make tennis easy.

To reach a UTR 13, player must have natural talent, best coaches, good mindset, fire-really want it-not parents want it,
This is really, really important. The kid may want to do it for his parents, but for a teenager to maintain the appropriate level of effort he'll have to want it too. For himself. Especially because the downside is that he doesn't have some icing on the academics cake.

I just find this whole thought exercise to be bizarre. They're going to dedicate a large amount of money/time on something the kid might not even enjoy for what? A slightly better chance to get into a school that the funding is already saved up for. Am I missing something here?

Edit: You posted while I was typing, so let me update.
Since a lot of people in the company played college tennis and he sees pictures of my kids playing tennis on the wall so he asks me how long it would take for his 12 years old to be good and use it as an vehicle to get into a good college. I told the dad that his kid is so athletically gifted, he will become a UTR 13 D1 college player when he turns either 16 or 17.
Athletics is a great tool for getting an education, but I find the seemingly myopic focus on tennis to be the odd part. If he's really a physical specimen there are other sports that would inherently benefit from that more, and they often have added bonuses like more scholarships with lower training costs.

Second Edit:
For what little it's worth, I should mention that my personal history was not completely dissimilar. I was a talented athlete, albeit no physical specimen, who picked up tennis my freshman year of high school. I did well, and my parents spent a considerable amount of money to get me quality training. Comparatively, I also picked up track as a sophomore and there was very little spend beyond a couple summer camps and shoes. In the end, I received some token offers for small non-NCAA schools for tennis, and a partial scholarship to a D1 track program. It's largely a numbers game. Just don't go the long distance route, there's not a lot of room there.
 
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#38
It is not about replacing football scholarship with tennis scholarship. His dad already set aside about 250k for him for college expenses. It is about going to a good university.



I am not trying to convince you to agree with me :). I did some research and found out that Sloane Stephens didn't start playing tennis until she was 9 years old. Her father was a NFL player and mother was a D1 swimmer. I know one UTR 13 player from JTCC in college park Maryland who is almost 17 years old but that kid is not as freakish as this 12 years old.

My colleague and I will be going to a business conference next week in CA and we're going to bring him to a tennis academy there for a few days so that they can assess his potential.

Btw, his birth father killed himself last year. Everyone suspected that he had CTE from playing football.
ah, in that case, i wonder if there are opportunities to delay going to college (gap year?), work on your game, pre college classes, etc... generally bulk up your college resume.
people redshirt their kids (usually at kindergarten) OFTEN... some parents will make their kid repeat a grade, and xfer schools at the same time to avoid the social stigma.
i'd be interested to see how this turns up...
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
#39
people redshirt their kids (usually at kindergarten) OFTEN... some parents will make their kid repeat a grade, and xfer schools at the same time to avoid the social stigma.
Wow! Really? I always assumed that the kids just got left back or something. Didn't realize it was on purpose.

J
 
#40
They plan to home school him at the beginning of the year 2019. Because he starts school early, they plan on taking about a year of prior to starting high school and send him to Saddlebrook academy to train there for a year
That's probably the best time to take the year off. I would agree it's not common, but I knew someone who did it and went on to play high level NCAA basketball. I even had a coach suggest it for me as I was very young for my class. I'm pretty sure things worked out for me best as is.

If they stay with a good tennis academy, I expect the school will make sure he graduates with full eligibility. I would never recommend trying to go to a top school (athletic or academic) out of a home school environment. Not because you can't get a good education, but the NCAA (and their member schools) are going to cast a very dubious eye on you.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
#42
lol, 3.5 tennis scholarships....
well, with title IX, i think that might actually be true (just not for the men).
No I didn't mean giving scholarships to 3.5 players I mean the teams might only have 3.5 or 4.5 scholarships to give out compared to basketball, baseball, football with 30+.

J
 
#43
Wow! Really? I always assumed that the kids just got left back or something. Didn't realize it was on purpose.
J
i help organize a youth soccer league... so i see the registrations, and there are alot of parents that redshirt their kids... looking back i wonder if i should have.
with boys especially, since how well they do in sports, or just in their ability to not get bullied,... physicallity is like half of their social equation (if not more).
i see in alot of the "travel" kids, they have a chip on their shoulder about being better... and this confidence (false or not) gets carried with them, at least in part, throughout their life.
so being 1 year older than the rest of the kids in their class, gives them a huge advantage.

that said, i see a trend (based on the articles i've read) where lots of schools are trying to cut back on it... and extracurriculur sports programs (ie. "travel"), tend to be age based (vs. grade based).
 
#44
lol, 3.5 tennis scholarships....
well, with title IX, i think that might actually be true (just not for the men).
If we were talking about a woman, I might be pushing tennis a little more aggressively. The NCAA likes to use women's tennis to offset the larger number of male scholarships going out for things like football. That means D1 gets 8 scholarships compared to 4.5 for men. I believe they're not allowed to be split though (head count). D2 gives like 1.5 more, but NAIA is the same for both sexes.
 
#45
No I didn't mean giving scholarships to 3.5 players I mean the teams might only have 3.5 or 4.5 scholarships to give out compared to basketball, baseball, football with 30+.

J
lol, true... talk about fighting for a tiny slice of the pie...
personally if i were to dedicate myself to getting my kid a scholarship through athletics, it'd definitely be in golf... relatively speaking, what kid plays golf (ie. much less competition) :p
 
#46
A compliant 12 y/o may agree to do whatever a parents thinks is best. However, 3 years down the road, a teenager is not going to stick with a sport that requires a lot of sacrifice unless he is passionate about it. Team sports promote bonding; competitive tennis isolates players-they may have to leave regular school, spend less time with local non tennis playing friends due to the hours of training, etc. Now once a player is in college, they are part of a team, but he will have to dedicate 5 years of his life to the sport before then-big tourneys over holidays, not having much free time between sports and keeping up academics, etc. I think it is OK for this parent to explore tennis with his son but he shouldnt be making multiyear plans yet. This dad is choosing tennis for his son just because he knows one coworker and sees tennis pictures on the wall? Crazy.

Player should try multiple sports and see which fits his personality. Some players love individual sports because they like the control-it is all on them-win or lose. Other thrive with team sports. I personally think tennis is one of the most demanding sports physically and mentally. A player can lose badly in 30 min or in 90 min; a player could get to deuce every game but then lose the big points and have a very lopsided score even though he may have won 45% of the points. Tennis is a game of small margins best for players who are mentally and physically fit and who can roll with the punches. When you play tennis, you have no guarantee of the length of the match, the scoring, the surface, or the start time. You may have signed up for a clay tourney scheduled to play at noon full 3rd, but if it rains, you may be playing indoors on hard play shorts sets and tiebreak at 10pm at night. You could have less than a 90 min break between 3 set matches. Also as juniors, players have to deal with their opponents making the line calls-every other sport has adults making calls. If a player survives junior tennis staying sane, he/she will be self-disciplined and probably mature beyond other athletes due to the unique stresses of tennis. The kids who cant handle it, either quit or get coded; one of the nicest kids I ever met somehow earned 10 conduct points and was suspended for 3 months. I tried to talk my son out of tennis in middle school because it seemed a lot harder and more expensive path than most sports but he stuck with it and now plays in college.
 
#47
Athletics is a great tool for getting an education, but I find the seemingly myopic focus on tennis to be the odd part. If he's really a physical specimen there are other sports that would inherently benefit from that more, and they often have added bonuses like more scholarships with lower training costs.
All of us see the world through the microcosm of our own lenses.

My company CEO and COO are both tennis lovers, around UTR 9 and 10. The executive assistant has the list of ex-D1 tennis players that works for the company, currently about 7. She asks these folks if they would like to hit with the CEO or COO on weeknights and weekends. Ex-tennis players are treated like rock stars within the company. I get paid well so I am not complaining but one one the tennis players recently left the company to join another company at the recommendation of our current COO and he salary went up by 75%. One of the ex-players told me that he came over to the CEO's house on the weekend to hit with one of his kids on his private tennis court. After the tennis match, they ate brunch and talked about things. To me, that's how connections are made and how you get noticed by upper management. It is a no brainer, right?
 
#49
personally if i were to dedicate myself to getting my kid a scholarship through athletics, it'd definitely be in golf... relatively speaking, what kid plays golf (ie. much less competition) :p
I assume you're joking, right?

I played with a kid this summer who just finished college on a golf scholarship to what he called "a small school in Washington". His handicap was -5 (meaning 5 shots better than par). He knew that he wasn't good enough to compete in the professional ranks (and didn't try).

The web.com tour stop in Utah had Monday qualifying. There were 12 spots. 62 (1), 63 (1), 64 (3) got directly into the event. 65's (12) had to play a sudden death playoff. And mind you, that's to qualify to play a minor league tournament (and none of these qualifiers made the cut to play the weekend, so they didn't make any money).

Golf competition is INSANE.
 
#50
I assume you're joking, right?

I played with a kid this summer who just finished college on a golf scholarship to what he called "a small school in Washington". His handicap was -5 (meaning 5 shots better than par). He knew that he wasn't good enough to compete in the professional ranks (and didn't try).

The web.com tour stop in Utah had Monday qualifying. There were 12 spots. 62 (1), 63 (1), 64 (3) got directly into the event. 65's (12) had to play a sudden death playoff. And mind you, that's to qualify to play a minor league tournament (and none of these qualifiers made the cut to play the weekend, so they didn't make any money).

Golf competition is INSANE.
obviously i was being a bit sarcastic... but relatively speaking, there are not alot of outlets for "pickup games of golf", like there is for soccer, football, basketball, baseball, etc....
participation in golf i'm presuming is tiny, compared to other sports... not saying it's not competitive within the folks that are playing...
 
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