How long does it take to achieve a UTR 13, is it too late?

Borna, one of my degrees is in computer programming. I taught it for years. It requires the same logical sequential thinking as math, science, and even music. That's your carry over.

I'm still learning and working on tennis, also. I've gone to the modern big topspin game myself to take advantage of technology and try to stay ahead of the young guns, lol. I still spend at least an hour a week hitting against a wall or with a ball machine.

Most of football is size, strength, and speed (except at quarterback in a pro set offense). Most of basketball is height, speed, and then skill. Men with average basketball skills and speed have made tens of millions of dollars just because they were really tall. I've had some really great shooters through the years that were almost useless in a game because they were slow. Most of tennis is skill. I often see slow, overweight old guys destroy younger, fit players. That never happens in basketball, Uncle Drew notwithstanding.

No other high school sport uses the same skills required in tennis, so there is little carry over (although former pitchers do seem to have an advantage at serving). In fact, tennis is a lot like baseball. It requires a whole lot of specialized skills, knowledge, and experience, along with just enough athleticism to use them effectively. You can't take great athletes and easily make great baseball players out of them (see Michael Jordan and Deon Sanders). The same goes for tennis. Athleticism is no short cut.

Does speed help? Sure, but, it's just one of many factors. Otherwise, the faster player would always win, which just isn't the case at all at higher levels. Shot making wins over foot speed almost all the time.
 
Not everything just transfers from one thing to another ... perhaps I am biased but I think tennis is one of those things.

At a recent tournament that a friend was playing in, she was on the court waiting for her opponent to show up for the 4.0 semifinals. This was the one entrant who my friend had not been able to see play prior to the match ...

Up walked two ladies. One looked like about all the other adult 4.0 players average height but looked fit and healthy, the other lady with whom she was chatting was at least 300lbs if not more. Perhaps 5'4" and her fat rolls had fat rolls. Truly a very very large woman, probably late 40s

Turns out the 300 pounder was the player.

Also turns out she had exceptional tennis skills. Her serve was near unreturnable for my friend (who is a solid 4.0 with a great w/l record for 2018), her groundstrokes were at least 30% faster with 2X the TS of my buddy's ... she anticipated every shot with keen awareness and was somehow where she needed to be every single time. The 300 pounder won the match 6-2; 6-0. All with skills that she had clearly honed for decades. She never missed, she placed the ball with precision and my athletic friend had no answers.

I guess that really drilled into my head that no amount of athletic skill, ability or aptitude can compensate for hours and hours on the court.

@borna coric it makes total sense that math/physics would translate to computer programming and why all engineering/tech degrees require a lot of math and physics, and similar sequencing/matrixes ... it would be surprising if all good programmers had been Chinese philosophy majors or sociology majors.

An exceptional student in one subject does not translate necessarily to another. My father was a history professor with PhDs in both history and philosophy, published 8 books in his lifetime, and although born in the US ended up picking up and speaking fluently 8 languages. Could read and write in 6 of them (could speak Russian and Japanese but not read ior write them). Don't even ask him to look at basic algebra ... he could not do it as much as he tried. The man knew how to learn stuff. He knew how to study ... those subjects baffled him.

It makes sense that a really good soccer player could become a really good lacrosse player as the footwork, field, team nature, flow of the game, and point of the game are really quite the same... they just need to translate from kicking to netting. Neither soccer (which I played D1) nor Lacrosse have a huge skills barrier.

One thing that is peculiar about tennis is the sheer amount of learned skill in almost each and every shot.

A good volley has slice in it. Hand your racquet to the naturally gifted athlete and watch them volley. They won't add slice. Ever. It is learned and drilled with hours and hours of time on the court.

How many total different FHs are there? All the nuances: TS, Flat, chip, slice, drop, TS lob, chip lob, inside out, inside in, and then when to use them. That is hours and hours of drilling, no way that you hand your racquet to that gifted athlete and are capable of doing more than perhaps 2 and then when to use them.

Repeat for all the aspects of the game. And that is not even talking about becoming match hardened and all of the mental aspects of the sport which cannot be done in a classroom, can only be learned in a match.

Now your co-worker's son may well be exceptionally gifted athletically, and he may pick up the sport faster than a regularly gifted athlete ... but it will never fully replace the hours on the court, may shave off a year or 2 so instead of 10-15 years may only be 8-13 years.

Tennis is not a sport of the "freakish" athlete (as is football for certain, gymnastics and perhaps a few others). It is a sport of extreme dedication, repitition and every single top 10 pro talks about the passion for the sport. Without it they wouldn't be there.
 

FiReFTW

Hall of Fame
How many total different FHs are there? All the nuances: TS, Flat, chip, slice, drop, TS lob, chip lob, inside out, inside in, and then when to use them.
You forgot a few like short angles, heavy spin that dips just over the net (when someone attacks net), etc... but ok..

Thats only scratching the surface tho, those are only the types of forehands you can hit, then theres backhand, slice backhand, return of serve fh, ros bh, fh volley, backhand volley, fh dropshot, bh dropshot, flat serve, slice serve, spin serve, kick serve, smash, bh smash etc.... and many sub types of all of those.

But even then, its only scratching the surface.

Now you need to learn to hit for example that topspin forehand in many different situations where its not the same and its different.

Against a low ball, against a medium ball, against a high ball, against a slow dead ball, against slice, against a heavy spin ball, against a fast ball, on the run, on the sprint, from different positions etc...

Now do the same for all other 15 types of shots and 80 other sub types of shots.

Then you need alot of mileage to learn to handle slight variations in shots, there can be 1000000 different variations of pace, spin, trajectory, bounce... Nadal once said that tennis is hard because not a single shot is exactly identical.

And after all of this which is pretty HUGE lets not kid ourselves, you still need to do a TON to learn proper footwork patterns for 100 different shots and situations.

To learn how to construct and win points, to learn tactics, to play 1000000 different types of players and opponents.

And how to play under pressure and handle playing under pressure and not crumble.

The amount of things ive listed is maybe 20-30% of all things, theres a ton more, and even these ud need a TON of time and TON of hours to just only go over each for 30 mins or so.

When you think about all this, its no wonder tennis is so very difficult and a slow long process to improve and better oneself and that you can never trully master it, always have things to work on and improve, even the pro players do, and this is exactly why, because theres SOOOOOO much depth and things to learn and improve that its insane.
 
How long to get to a UTR of 13? That is different for all people but regardless, it is usually more than 4 regardless of athletic ability. Actually, 99+% of people who take up the sport and take it seriously (and take up the sport young) do not get a UTR of 13.

I wish the kid luck but it isn’t likely.
 
Exceptional people play by a completely different set of rules than everyone else.
Disagree: they are subject to the same rules of gravity, bio-mechanics, respiration, problem-solving, etc. as everyone else. People with exceptional abilities can deal with these limitations far better than people of average abilities, true enough. The question is merely where the limits are, not whether any limits exist.
 
Not everything just transfers from one thing to another ... perhaps I am biased but I think tennis is one of those things.

At a recent tournament that a friend was playing in, she was on the court waiting for her opponent to show up for the 4.0 semifinals. This was the one entrant who my friend had not been able to see play prior to the match ...

Up walked two ladies. One looked like about all the other adult 4.0 players average height but looked fit and healthy, the other lady with whom she was chatting was at least 300lbs if not more. Perhaps 5'4" and her fat rolls had fat rolls. Truly a very very large woman, probably late 40s

Turns out the 300 pounder was the player.

Also turns out she had exceptional tennis skills. Her serve was near unreturnable for my friend (who is a solid 4.0 with a great w/l record for 2018), her groundstrokes were at least 30% faster with 2X the TS of my buddy's ... she anticipated every shot with keen awareness and was somehow where she needed to be every single time. The 300 pounder won the match 6-2; 6-0. All with skills that she had clearly honed for decades. She never missed, she placed the ball with precision and my athletic friend had no answers.

I guess that really drilled into my head that no amount of athletic skill, ability or aptitude can compensate for hours and hours on the court.

@borna coric it makes total sense that math/physics would translate to computer programming and why all engineering/tech degrees require a lot of math and physics, and similar sequencing/matrixes ... it would be surprising if all good programmers had been Chinese philosophy majors or sociology majors.

An exceptional student in one subject does not translate necessarily to another. My father was a history professor with PhDs in both history and philosophy, published 8 books in his lifetime, and although born in the US ended up picking up and speaking fluently 8 languages. Could read and write in 6 of them (could speak Russian and Japanese but not read ior write them). Don't even ask him to look at basic algebra ... he could not do it as much as he tried. The man knew how to learn stuff. He knew how to study ... those subjects baffled him.

It makes sense that a really good soccer player could become a really good lacrosse player as the footwork, field, team nature, flow of the game, and point of the game are really quite the same... they just need to translate from kicking to netting. Neither soccer (which I played D1) nor Lacrosse have a huge skills barrier.

One thing that is peculiar about tennis is the sheer amount of learned skill in almost each and every shot.

A good volley has slice in it. Hand your racquet to the naturally gifted athlete and watch them volley. They won't add slice. Ever. It is learned and drilled with hours and hours of time on the court.

How many total different FHs are there? All the nuances: TS, Flat, chip, slice, drop, TS lob, chip lob, inside out, inside in, and then when to use them. That is hours and hours of drilling, no way that you hand your racquet to that gifted athlete and are capable of doing more than perhaps 2 and then when to use them.

Repeat for all the aspects of the game. And that is not even talking about becoming match hardened and all of the mental aspects of the sport which cannot be done in a classroom, can only be learned in a match.

Now your co-worker's son may well be exceptionally gifted athletically, and he may pick up the sport faster than a regularly gifted athlete ... but it will never fully replace the hours on the court, may shave off a year or 2 so instead of 10-15 years may only be 8-13 years.

Tennis is not a sport of the "freakish" athlete (as is football for certain, gymnastics and perhaps a few others). It is a sport of extreme dedication, repitition and every single top 10 pro talks about the passion for the sport. Without it they wouldn't be there.
Any chance the woman's last name was money? If we're thinking of the same person you'll know what I mean.
 
I am guessing not .... because I am just not getting the reference, or I am too dense to get the reference ... she's from WA ... plays a lot of tournaments at 3.5 and 4.0 singles and mixed
 
I am guessing not .... because I am just not getting the reference, or I am too dense to get the reference ... she's from WA ... plays a lot of tournaments at 3.5 and 4.0 singles and mixed
No it's not her then. It's just that I know an obese woman from NJ who's also a very good player, computer rated 4.5.
 
@JD. I am ten years younger than you and I am still learning :)

Let assume everything you said is true. What I am trying to understand is how people who studied math and physics in college are able to transfer that knowledge over computer programming skills so quickly. Most of the programmers at my company are either math or physics majors. The transition is very seamless from what I can see.

Therefore, I would assume that if you're an elite athlete or elite student, the skills you acquire from one sport or subject can carry over to another rather easily. You might not be able to get to professional level but you will be like almost there.

Or maybe I am wrong in thinking that way. Maybe sports do not work like academic.
The programmers in your company are not elite programmers.
 
Certainly he can by the time he is 18.
He will need excellent strokes, so he will need very good professional lessons (or like me, a Dad who was a tennis coach or else someone knowledgeable to go out on the court and instruct him a good amount of time).
He needs to be willing to go out and practice on his own. This is crucial. Does he have the temperament to go out and hit serves for an hour or hit the backboard for a couple of hours to work out an issue with his forehand. If he enjoys this, he can be that good.
Both of these are much more important to get to that level than the athleticism. The athleticism can make the difference once he gets to that level.
 
unless they are targeting an ivy.... in which case the kid will need something special... utr14 would be "special" :p
my daughter's ivy bound friends didn't do anything "special" aside from 4.6+ GPAs, 1580+ SATs and stellar competitors in Science O and such .... oh, and one started a non-profit that now has 5 FT employees and about 1M in funds and another had a research paper published in physics.
 
my daughter's ivy bound friends didn't do anything "special" aside from 4.6+ GPAs, 1580+ SATs and stellar competitors in Science O and such .... oh, and one started a non-profit that now has 5 FT employees and about 1M in funds and another had a research paper published in physics.
We know a former admissions officer at an Ivy who said that they get so many qualified applicants that at some point they just start going In, Out, In, Out. You do need something to stand out to be accepted before they get to that point. My daughter (MIT, not an Ivy) had those kinds of grades/scores/SAT IIs, etc.; and she was captain of two sports and had an internship in high school that I can't talk about, but really made her stand out.
 
Really? so his DNA athleticism does not matter, that both his birth father and mother were athletes? His body type is very similar to Boris Becker, in that he is generally taller than kids who are 15 and 16 years old.

How many private lessons does he need per week in order to achieve UTR 13 when he turns 16?
He needs to pick another sport that athleticism is all that matters not skill. Sounds like he'd be an easy/ natural track athlete. Maybe wrestling, soccer, or even basketball. Tennis has a very technical foundation on top of athleticism and court and situational awareness.
 
We know a former admissions officer at an Ivy who said that they get so many qualified applicants that at some point they just start going In, Out, In, Out. You do need something to stand out to be accepted before they get to that point. My daughter (MIT, not an Ivy) had those kinds of grades/scores/SAT IIs, etc.; and she was captain of two sports and had an internship in high school that I can't talk about, but really made her stand out.
My daughter is currently sporting only a 4.42 as a junior and was miserable for days because she got "only" a 1540 on the SAT, debate team captain as a junior, started an organization to raise funds for low income kids to go on college visitations as well as peer mentoring for the application process and has raised 30K in corporate sponsorhips .... she is setting her sights on Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore right now as she was told no shot at the Ivy league schools .... the angst in my house is palpable.
 
My daughter is currently sporting only a 4.42 as a junior and was miserable for days because she got "only" a 1540 on the SAT, debate team captain as a junior, started an organization to raise funds for low income kids to go on college visitations as well as peer mentoring for the application process and has raised 30K in corporate sponsorhips .... she is setting her sights on Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore right now as she was told no shot at the Ivy league schools .... the angst in my house is palpable.
Unless something changed since I graduated high school five years ago, the people telling you she has no shot at the Ivy League are trolling you (or more cynically hoping she doesn't apply so their kids have a better chance). Sure, her odds aren't good at any individual Ivy, but if she applies to all of them, she should get into a couple.
 
My daughter is currently sporting only a 4.42 as a junior and was miserable for days because she got "only" a 1540 on the SAT, debate team captain as a junior, started an organization to raise funds for low income kids to go on college visitations as well as peer mentoring for the application process and has raised 30K in corporate sponsorhips .... she is setting her sights on Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore right now as she was told no shot at the Ivy league schools .... the angst in my house is palpable.
Why does she love the Northeast?

J
 
my 2 cents and I am not a coach.

1. Even for an exceptional athlete to play at the top of 4.5 level or above will take 3 or 4 years minimum and 5 years is more realistic.
2. John McEnroe started playing tennis seriously around 11 or 12 years old and was in the quarterfinals of Wimbledon in his late teens. So, it can be done but as we know John had a gift from the gods as his touch and feel were extraordinary.
3. My formula would be:
3.1 One or 2 private lessons per week
3.2 Get the kid in an afterschool academy where they take group lessons 2 or 3 more times per week
3.3 Round out with personal practice with hitting partners with the goal of getting the kid on court 5 or 6 times per week
3.4 Play leagues and tournaments - practice is a lot different than competing and the kid will need to excel at competing
3.5 Get a coach to give the kid a good fitness program for a tennis player - light weights, cardio, stretching, ... try to get at least 2 fitness sessions in per week

With all of the above, there's a good chance he could get a scholarship but a pro career is extremely unlikely unless the kid is touched by tennis gods.
 
I wish I knew ... I am encouraging looking at some schools out west ... Pepperdine, Stanford ... but she wants to be on the NE especially the Boston area. We have no family or anything out there but have visited the area several times and she feels really at home there.
I mean the schools are lovely, but people from places without winter don't generally like to go places with winter. Stanford is just as hard to get into as an ivy so she should certainly apply to a few.

J
 
Thanks guys, and we have almost a year until she needs to have her apps in for early decision .... her dream school is Brown and that is likely the only one getting the early decision app ... But she could go to UNLV or to UNR for free ... I am really encouraging that ... Reno has winter ....

In terms of winter, I think she is in for a surprise ... I grew up in the mydwest and spent 10+ years in Minnesota so I know cold. Coming from OH, my first few winters in MN just about killed me.
 
Thanks guys, and we have almost a year until she needs to have her apps in for early decision .... her dream school is Brown and that is likely the only one getting the early decision app ... But she could go to UNLV or to UNR for free ... I am really encouraging that ... Reno has winter ....

In terms of winter, I think she is in for a surprise ... I grew up in the mydwest and spent 10+ years in Minnesota so I know cold. Coming from OH, my first few winters in MN just about killed me.
I went to Brown a couple weeks ago. Beautiful school, cool little town.

All the Ivys are nice, Cornell is HUGE so that's her best bet depending on her major.

J
 
I went to Brown a couple weeks ago. Beautiful school, cool little town.

All the Ivys are nice, Cornell is HUGE so that's her best bet depending on her major.

J
She liked Cornell and Ithaca (my father and grandfather's alma mater) but she wants to go PoliSci which isn't their strong point and they don't have a nationally ranked debate team which are her two hot buttons.
 
My daughter is currently sporting only a 4.42 as a junior and was miserable for days because she got "only" a 1540 on the SAT, debate team captain as a junior, started an organization to raise funds for low income kids to go on college visitations as well as peer mentoring for the application process and has raised 30K in corporate sponsorhips .... she is setting her sights on Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore right now as she was told no shot at the Ivy league schools .... the angst in my house is palpable.
I think she has a chance for ivy, depending on her application and writing skills/ability to express herself.

She should also consider Wellesley. Visited there a few years ago for an event on anti-human trafficking.
 
This discussion needs to be held in light of a few facts. First there is no good data on how fast an elite junior can advance. Why? There are no elite male junior athletes in Anerica who choose tennis. None. If there were, American tennis would dominate. The American guys playing on the ATP tour would not even sniff the professional ranks of any other sport. You think Sam Querry is going to be an elite soccer player? Jack Sock playing safety in the NFL? Stevie Johnson in the NBA? Get real. If an actual elite male athlete picked up tennis seriously in America at age 14, they would be the top ranked American male player by age 21. Period. Steph Curry, LeBron, almost any NFL QB or CB, etc. Basically anyone with a sub 4.0 shuttle run or a 40 inch vertical, those guys are making true big $$ playing big time sports in America. Not wasting their time making 500k by losing in the semis at a major.
 
This discussion needs to be held in light of a few facts. First there is no good data on how fast an elite junior can advance. Why? There are no elite male junior athletes in Anerica who choose tennis. None. If there were, American tennis would dominate. The American guys playing on the ATP tour would not even sniff the professional ranks of any other sport. You think Sam Querry is going to be an elite soccer player? Jack Sock playing safety in the NFL? Stevie Johnson in the NBA? Get real. If an actual elite male athlete picked up tennis seriously in America at age 14, they would be the top ranked American male player by age 21. Period. Steph Curry, LeBron, almost any NFL QB or CB, etc. Basically anyone with a sub 4.0 shuttle run or a 40 inch vertical, those guys are making true big $$ playing big time sports in America. Not wasting their time making 500k by losing in the semis at a major.
Then how do you explain the success of Sampras and Agassi?

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Really debated if I should comment...... but here goes.
I'll keep this at a very high level because others have mentioned some good points, and no need for me to say the same thing others have said.
I and many others have been in your shoes asking the same questions...... so I would HIGHLY recommend seeking out PARENTS that have gone through this process, they will be the only ones that will be HONEST with you. So here are only a few of my comments.

1. Your in the wrong forum for this type of question.... go to the College Tennis Talk to get better info.
2. I don't like saying this, but there are lots of people on here that really don't know what they are talking about. Try and seek out parents that have gone through this process for realistic information. If you just want to know if its possibly...... than the answer is yes, its always possible. Asking a coach or academy these questions, remember, they are in the business of getting paid. Free advice doesn't pay their bills.
3. Vertical height, foot speed, 50 yard dash speed, while helpful.... just don't translate into tennis skill, sorry.
4. Development: Tennis can be considered a game of "time"..... it takes years and years of practice to acquire skills. No matter how talented you are it still takes time to acquire a high level of: technical, tactical and emotional skills to compete at a high level. And that is what we are talking about....... HIGH LEVEL. And when he gets injured (which he will), that's time you don't get back. Or say he is taught a stroke incorrectly, time is needed to change it. And practicing more often to get back time only leads to injury. Which means.... well.... more time gone. Two biggest enemies: time and video games.
5. And finally...... you have to ask yourself, do you want this for the kid or does he want it. This is probably the single biggest point. Tennis training is LONG and LONELY, and unfortunally my experience has been tennis while a great adult game, just doesn't hold most kids interest for long, sad. Most Kids will go far on their parents hope and desires..... but sooner or later their own personality will kick in. They will still go to practice, but if their heart isn't in it....... development slows and the "Time" thing starts to kick in again. This is where my kid hit the wall and stopped playing. She is still a good player, but development slowed dramatically due to her maturing and finding other interest.

Good Luck
 
Official song:

Far above Cayuga's waters
With its waves of blue
Stands our noble alma mater
Glorious to view


Unofficial song by the Glee Club:

Far above Cayuga's waters
There's an awful smell
Some say it's Cayuga's waters
Some say it's Cornell
Unofficial song ...
Don’t send my boy to Harvard the dying mother said

Don’t send him to Princeton I’d rather see him dead

But send him to Dartmouth or better yet Cornell

But send him to Pennsylvania
I’d sooner see him in he!!

To he!! To he!! To Pennsylvania....
 
Really debated if I should comment...... but here goes.
I'll keep this at a very high level because others have mentioned some good points, and no need for me to say the same thing others have said.
I and many others have been in your shoes asking the same questions...... so I would HIGHLY recommend seeking out PARENTS that have gone through this process, they will be the only ones that will be HONEST with you. So here are only a few of my comments.

1. Your in the wrong forum for this type of question.... go to the College Tennis Talk to get better info.
2. I don't like saying this, but there are lots of people on here that really don't know what they are talking about. Try and seek out parents that have gone through this process for realistic information. If you just want to know if its possibly...... than the answer is yes, its always possible. Asking a coach or academy these questions, remember, they are in the business of getting paid. Free advice doesn't pay their bills.
3. Vertical height, foot speed, 50 yard dash speed, while helpful.... just don't translate into tennis skill, sorry.
4. Development: Tennis can be considered a game of "time"..... it takes years and years of practice to acquire skills. No matter how talented you are it still takes time to acquire a high level of: technical, tactical and emotional skills to compete at a high level. And that is what we are talking about....... HIGH LEVEL. And when he gets injured (which he will), that's time you don't get back. Or say he is taught a stroke incorrectly, time is needed to change it. And practicing more often to get back time only leads to injury. Which means.... well.... more time gone. Two biggest enemies: time and video games.
5. And finally...... you have to ask yourself, do you want this for the kid or does he want it. This is probably the single biggest point. Tennis training is LONG and LONELY, and unfortunally my experience has been tennis while a great adult game, just doesn't hold most kids interest for long, sad. Most Kids will go far on their parents hope and desires..... but sooner or later their own personality will kick in. They will still go to practice, but if their heart isn't in it...
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Vertical jump and shuttle run predicts almost everything for an athlete
4. Very true
5. Somewhat true, although plenty of high level players don’t want it and never did, but still made it (Agassi, Kyrios)
 
Then how do you explain the success of Sampras and Agassi?

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1. Pete’s vertical jump was quite good. He could jump out of the gym from a flat stance. This predicts serve power better than anything.
2. Andre’s shuttle run was quite good.

In terms of athleticism, Sampras is the best pure athlete in American tennis history, and that was born out by his success. Andre was not in his league in terms of explosiveness, power generation, quickness, fast twitch, etc.

The reason no one measures these qualities at tennis academies is because there would be hard data showing that young American tennis players don’t have the skill sets of those in other sports. It would also force academy coaches to tell parents “sorry, your kid doesn’t have D1 college level ability” when the kid is only 13-14 and the parents are ready to write checks for lessons. Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, etc know which kids to target for elite D1 football ability by the time they are freshmen in high school if not before, sometimes 8th grade. The kids are constantly going to camps, mini combines, 7 on 7 summer sessions, etc and get tracked through all sorts of predictive testing. None of this happens in tennis.
 
My daughter is currently sporting only a 4.42 as a junior and was miserable for days because she got "only" a 1540 on the SAT, debate team captain as a junior, started an organization to raise funds for low income kids to go on college visitations as well as peer mentoring for the application process and has raised 30K in corporate sponsorhips .... she is setting her sights on Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore right now as she was told no shot at the Ivy league schools .... the angst in my house is palpable.
She has no shot if she doesn't apply. Whoever told her no shot is definitely being disingenuous. Best of luck to your daughter in reaching her dream school.
 
She has no shot if she doesn't apply. Whoever told her no shot is definitely being disingenuous. Best of luck to your daughter in reaching her dream school.
Maybe she's putting her effort towards the highest probability choices as opposed to also targeting every Ivy [which takes a lot of time and $] and the good chance of a lot of rejection notices. Maybe whoever told her is basing that conclusion on what previous successful applicants' stats were. I think it comes down to how you want to allocate your effort. If I wanted to get into an Ivy, I'd at least apply to one or two.
 
1. Pete’s vertical jump was quite good. He could jump out of the gym from a flat stance. This predicts serve power better than anything.
2. Andre’s shuttle run was quite good.

In terms of athleticism, Sampras is the best pure athlete in American tennis history, and that was born out by his success. Andre was not in his league in terms of explosiveness, power generation, quickness, fast twitch, etc.

The reason no one measures these qualities at tennis academies is because there would be hard data showing that young American tennis players don’t have the skill sets of those in other sports. It would also force academy coaches to tell parents “sorry, your kid doesn’t have D1 college level ability” when the kid is only 13-14 and the parents are ready to write checks for lessons. Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, etc know which kids to target for elite D1 football ability by the time they are freshmen in high school if not before, sometimes 8th grade. The kids are constantly going to camps, mini combines, 7 on 7 summer sessions, etc and get tracked through all sorts of predictive testing. None of this happens in tennis.
There is a former NFL player who is now a 4.0 player and a coach in Georgia. There is a guy called Landon or something like that who is the most winning US soccer player who has now taken up tennis, with no indication of success. If a former NFL player taking up tennis as an adult reaches only the same level as fat Bob in the club, I don't think other sports are predictive of tennis. From my experience, only the baseball pitch, cricket bowling, the badminton reflexes, and the table tennis topspin translate to tennis.

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Tennis requires an exquisite balance between power and control, spin and pace. It requires the ability to play for 3 hours without useless timeouts and half times and foul stops. It requires great mental strength to face one on one humiliation with no team member to blame. Tennis requires racket skills and touch, and the ability to run in any direction in short spurts. It requires the ability in the early stages to overcome bad technique pushers. Soccer, football, basketball, cricket, hockey - none need the skills needed for tennis

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Maybe she's putting her effort towards the highest probability choices as opposed to also targeting every Ivy [which takes a lot of time and $] and the good chance of a lot of rejection notices. Maybe whoever told her is basing that conclusion on what previous successful applicants' stats were. I think it comes down to how you want to allocate your effort. If I wanted to get into an Ivy, I'd at least apply to one or two.
I don't care what they're basing their conclusion on. In my mind they're limiting her. I'm a bit biased against that line of thinking. I have a family member that grew up in a poverty stricken inner city area who ended up at an Ivy after being told by the high school counselor to only apply to the local city colleges because there's no shot at anything bigger. The time, money, and chance at rejection are all worth the risk if you're ambitious enough.
 
I don't care what they're basing their conclusion on. In my mind they're limiting her. I'm a bit biased against that line of thinking. I have a family member that grew up in a poverty stricken inner city area who ended up at an Ivy after being told by the high school counselor to only apply to the local city colleges because there's no shot at anything bigger. The time, money, and chance at rejection are all worth the risk if you're ambitious enough.
I don't disagree ... however .... she has exceptional grades yet in an exceptional magnet school so others are better ... and she is not inner city, not the 1st college student in the family, not from an under-represtented group and we are no where near wealthy so can't buy her way in with by donating a building.

I do agree that you will fail at 100% of the things you don't attempt .... so next year, unless a lot of things change, she will be applying to Brown if no other Ivies.
 
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