How Long does Natural Gut / (co)Poly Hybrid Last?

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
The issue is that full bed of gut doesn't last as long as a hybrid. The string-string friction of full bed gut leads to breakage in half the time of a gut/poly hybrid. And full gut is more expensive than gut/poly. Gut/poly hybrids offer the goldilocks combination of spin, longevity and playability at a reasonable cost over a premium multi.

The key is to use a soft resilient co-poly like Cream or YPTA. It lasts a good while before it loses that resilience and you can pretty much keep it in until it breaks with only modest loss of control over time. For a lower level player it will also offer a bit more free power allowing them to invest in a more low powered flexible frame.
I think string breakage is extremely level dependent. When I was a beginner and up to the 3.5 level, I played only with gut and wouldn’t break it for many months. Now, my wife has been playing for about 2 years and she never breaks her gut strings either. I felt that the tension and playability with gut would last more than 50 hours in those days and only then I would start noticing that the control started going down. Whenever I tried multis in those days, I didn’t break it either too soon, but the tension maintenance and playability wasn’t even as half as good as gut and so, for me gut offered good price/performance benefits. When I tried poly, I found it too under-powered in those days as my swing was not good enough.

Once my swing got better and I started hitting the ball harder with more spin, I started breaking gut too soon and switched to gut/poly hybrids which is what I play with now. I like also the extra spin and control I get with poly crosses which ends up with me swinging out more freely and hitting more powerfully. I break the gut/poly in about 15 hours now or cut it out by then as either the gut gets very frayed or the poly feels too harsh. I still miss the comfort of full-bed gut though. Since I have a somewhat sensitive elbow and I like racquets with mid-sixties RA, I‘ve tried fullbed poly only a few times and always find that I miss some pop on serves. So, the gut/poly hybrid is going to be my go-to for a while.
 

agradina

Rookie
I think string breakage is extremely level dependent. When I was a beginner and up to the 3.5 level, I played only with gut and wouldn’t break it for many months. Now, my wife has been playing for about 2 years and she never breaks her gut strings either. I felt that the tension and playability with gut would last more than 50 hours in those days and only then I would start noticing that the control started going down. Whenever I tried multis in those days, I didn’t break it either too soon, but the tension maintenance and playability wasn’t even as half as good as gut and so, for me gut offered good price/performance benefits. When I tried poly, I found it too under-powered in those days as my swing was not good enough.

Once my swing got better and I started hitting the ball harder with more spin, I started breaking gut too soon and switched to gut/poly hybrids which is what I play with now. I like also the extra spin and control I get with poly crosses which ends up with me swinging out more freely and hitting more powerfully. I break the gut/poly in about 15 hours now or cut it out by then as either the gut gets very frayed or the poly feels too harsh. I still miss the comfort of full-bed gut though. Since I have a somewhat sensitive elbow and I like racquets with mid-sixties RA, I‘ve tried fullbed poly only a few times and always find that I miss some pop on serves. So, the gut/poly hybrid is going to be my go-to for a while.
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15 hours will be too litle for me to keep gut hybrid because only means 1-2 weeks.To be viable it has to keep me at least 6 weeks.But depends also on everyone financial posibilities also so if u can afford that all right.
 

tonylg

Legend
15 hours will be too litle for me to keep gut hybrid because only means 1-2 weeks.To be viable it has to keep me at least 6 weeks.But depends also on everyone financial posibilities also so if u can afford that all right.

If you're getting over 40 hours out of anything but Kevlar, a gut/poly hybrid is going to last you a lot longer than 15. Just pick one of the polys mentioned above to ensure playability.
 
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Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I think string breakage is extremely level dependent.

I think its stroke and frame dependent. If you hit heavy topspin strokes you'll break strings far quicker than a flat hitter. If you use a stiff frame with open string bed, you'll break strings faster than with a tight string bed and flexible frame.

I used to break strings in 15 hrs with gut/4G in my Pure Drive. Now with my Phantoms I almost never break gut/poly and take it out when its performing poorly rather than for breakage. I'm currently 20 hours into a gut/cream hybrid on my new Phantom 107G and it's playing fine for rec tennis. Not as precise as it did the first 10 hours, but fine for social tennis. It doesn't look like it's going to break for at least another 10 hours.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
I think its stroke and frame dependent. If you hit heavy topspin strokes you'll break strings far quicker than a flat hitter. If you use a stiff frame with open string bed, you'll break strings faster than with a tight string bed and flexible frame.

I used to break strings in 15 hrs with gut/4G in my Pure Drive. Now with my Phantoms I almost never break gut/poly and take it out when its performing poorly rather than for breakage. I'm currently 20 hours into a gut/cream hybrid on my new Phantom 107G and it's playing fine for rec tennis. Not as precise as it did the first 10 hours, but fine for social tennis. It doesn't look like it's going to break for at least another 10 hours.

Agreed, I never broke strings using flexy frames until I tested out the Wilson 95 CV I broke a string after a week of hitting. Very frame dependent. Now I have to cut out string for bad performance rather than actually breaking.
 

mctennis

Legend
I think its stroke and frame dependent. If you hit heavy topspin strokes you'll break strings far quicker than a flat hitter. If you use a stiff frame with open string bed, you'll break strings faster than with a tight string bed and flexible frame.

I used to break strings in 15 hrs with gut/4G in my Pure Drive. Now with my Phantoms I almost never break gut/poly and take it out when its performing poorly rather than for breakage. I'm currently 20 hours into a gut/cream hybrid on my new Phantom 107G and it's playing fine for rec tennis. Not as precise as it did the first 10 hours, but fine for social tennis. It doesn't look like it's going to break for at least another 10 hours.
I agree with exactly with what you are saying. I can get a lot more hours out of a gut/poly ( co-poly) and it plays fine fore social tennis. I can notice a difference in the poly sooner than the gut. However it does not get cut out until I really can notice a performance issue. Then I re-string. I also usually rotate 2-3 racquets when I do play so it makes it seem like they last longer. Maybe not but in my mind it does.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Agreed, I never broke strings using flexy frames until I tested out the Wilson 95 CV I broke a string after a week of hitting. Very frame dependent. Now I have to cut out string for bad performance rather than actually breaking.
I’ve also had the experience that when I played with dense pattern racquets, I broke strings less often than with a more open stringbed. This makes sense to me.

Any ideas on the physics behind why strings would break less often with a more flexible racquet?
 

agradina

Rookie
For me if i play with shaped poly in cross hybrid last maximum 20-30 hours if i played with round poly which i recomand its usualy over 40 hours.So the type of cross poly matter at least 25-30% at durability.Also i notice when i play on clay it damage more the gut than hard or sintetic court so this also affect the gut.
 

drc1911

New User
I have a hitting partner who had two racquets each with the same bed of strings in his racquet for almost two years. Both were poly mains and synthetic gut crosses. I recently restrung one of them for him at the same tension he had them strung at according to the sticker on the racquet. He had gotten so used to playing with the loss of tension that he wants me to string the send one looser to better replicate the fell that he had before.
 

PBODY99

Legend
I’ve also had the experience that when I played with dense pattern racquets, I broke strings less often than with a more open stringbed. This makes sense to me.

Any ideas on the physics behind why strings would break less often with a more flexible racquet?
A stiffer frame rebounds quicker which increases the peak load on the string bed.
 

SonRK

Semi-Pro
In your signature, it says you play 5.0? I'm a medium hitting 3.5 and I get about 10-14 hours with Tonic / Alu Power in the crosses. The mains snap before they start to fray a lot. I hit fairly flat, so I assume I'm just sawing my strings into each other.
 

JustTennis76

Hall of Fame
Holy Moly :eek: there's tons of players on this forum getting much more longevity and playability with NaturalGut/Poly hybrids than what's being stated in this thread.

Are you guys hybriding round/soft/smooth (co)Poly? Try Golden Set Power Cord, Discho Iontec, soft Signum Pro Poly Plasma!!

If you want to save lotsa moola $$$ from the greater expense of Natural Gut, install string savers, or as a final resort just cut out and re-string the cross strings.
I agree totally here. I am rated 5.0 and play 2 or 3 times a week. I had 2 rackets strung with gut/poly(signature) and rotated them. I don’t even feel a difference even after 3 months of play. Last year, I played with one racket for 6 months and eventually had to cut it out. Very good value for the money.
 
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aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
I rarely break strings, but there is a big difference in spin between full gut and gut/poly. I'm not sure why people keep recommending full gut if you don't break strings, full gut is for serve & volley play
 

LOBALOT

Legend
I rarely break strings, but there is a big difference in spin between full gut and gut/poly. I'm not sure why people keep recommending full gut if you don't break strings, full gut is for serve & volley play

I agree 100%. I am on another thread here on this same topic and indicated the same thing. Gut/poly provides the benefit of added spin vs. a locked bed and one gets two racquets for the price of one.

Plus they get the features gut offers in comfort, power, etc.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I rarely break strings, but there is a big difference in spin between full gut and gut/poly. I'm not sure why people keep recommending full gut if you don't break strings, full gut is for serve & volley play

Or for 3.5-4.0 ladies doubles. My wife hits very flat, almost never breaks a string and full gut provides some oomph, touch and long lasting tension maintenance. Almost all her compatriots are very similar in generally hitting eastern FH's (and Eastern Frying pan serves that bounce around your knees). None of them need polyester. But full gut is a value for how long it lasts in her frame.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
Or for 3.5-4.0 ladies doubles. My wife hits very flat, almost never breaks a string and full gut provides some oomph, touch and long lasting tension maintenance. Almost all her compatriots are very similar in generally hitting eastern FH's (and Eastern Frying pan serves that bounce around your knees). None of them need polyester. But full gut is a value for how long it lasts in her frame.

This is actually a good point. There is are a set of players where a full bed of gut makes sense.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
If someone doesn’t break strings, they should definitely try fullbed gut. Nothing else comes close in retaining tension and playability for more than 40-50 hours. Most 3.5 and low 4.0 players I know never break strings and would play better if they tried gut.

A lot of players say gut is too expensive while they then talk about the $2,000 set of golf clubs they bought or the $100-200 they spent to play one round of golf at a nice course. For some reason in their head, it is ok to spend that money to enjoy 3 hours of golf once while spending another $20 on gut that they could play with for many weeks is not a bargain. Go figure!
 

2nd Serve Ace

Hall of Fame
This topic has been more relevant to me as I move into the gut/poly only part of my year (oct-mar)

Actually have been playing more singles lately and wow does that do a bigger number on gut mains than dubs! Also did a recent change from a 1.23 cross to a 1.18 and that thinner saw makes a difference in cutting more effectively!
Finally, I had this idea that a denser, higher tension string bed would improve longevity, but I have to conclude that what happens in fact is that these changes allow the player to swing out more on TS shots and actually accelerate wear.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
If someone doesn’t break strings, they should definitely try fullbed gut. Nothing else comes close in retaining tension and playability for more than 40-50 hours. Most 3.5 and low 4.0 players I know never break strings and would play better if they tried gut.

A lot of players say gut is too expensive while they then talk about the $2,000 set of golf clubs they bought or the $100-200 they spent to play one round of golf at a nice course. For some reason in their head, it is ok to spend that money to enjoy 3 hours of golf once while spending another $20 on gut that they could play with for many weeks is not a bargain. Go figure!

I'm a 5.0 player who plays with smaller headsize frames and flexible sticks, I rarely break strings before they drop in performance. Suggesting someone use full gut because they don't break strings is not helpful without knowing the game style of the player.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Breaking strings is racquet dependent as well. I used to break Solinco Tour Bite in less than 2 hours when I used a 2013 APD, but after moving on from that frame I break strings far less frequently.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I’ve also had the experience that when I played with dense pattern racquets, I broke strings less often than with a more open stringbed. This makes sense to me.

Any ideas on the physics behind why strings would break less often with a more flexible racquet?

The string bed collides with the ball and that force has to be dissipated. After the strings have absorbed what they can, it can only go into the frame, up your arm or back into the ball. If you have a stiff racket, it won't absorb energy like a flexible frame will. So more goes into the ball (Power!!!) and into the Arm (Uggh my elbow!!!). But more also has to be absorbed by the string bed and that puts more strain each hit on your strings.

That's why wood is better than glass in an earthquake.


If someone doesn’t break strings, they should definitely try fullbed gut. Nothing else comes close in retaining tension and playability for more than 40-50 hours. Most 3.5 and low 4.0 players I know never break strings and would play better if they tried gut.

I think any non-string breaking flat hitter should use gut. The problem is too many use Poly because a) Pros!!!! and b) strings don't move around. No idea that they are getting nothing out of them for their game other than a good case of TE.

I don't hit flat and I'll break strings if I use full gut. So i like gut/poly. Got 40hrs out of Gut/Cream recently. I'd get half that from full bed gut.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
The string bed collides with the ball and that force has to be dissipated. After the strings have absorbed what they can, it can only go into the frame, up your arm or back into the ball. If you have a stiff racket, it won't absorb energy like a flexible frame will. So more goes into the ball (Power!!!) and into the Arm (Uggh my elbow!!!). But more also has to be absorbed by the string bed and that puts more strain each hit on your strings.

That's why wood is better than glass in an earthquake.




I think any non-string breaking flat hitter should use gut. The problem is too many use Poly because a) Pros!!!! and b) strings don't move around. No idea that they are getting nothing out of them for their game other than a good case of TE.

I don't hit flat and I'll break strings if I use full gut. So i like gut/poly. Got 40hrs out of Gut/Cream recently. I'd get half that from full bed gut.

I agree. I play with gut/cream and I have a racquet that RacquetTune says I strung on 9/3 and played at least 4 times a week through October (minimum 80 hours). I then played probably twice a week through November so another 20 hours.

I am out playing in 37 degree weather where I need a softer setup and I am playing more for exercise and social aspects than the performance I am getting and I am still using the goofy thing even though the gut has given up the fight and the poly cross is long ago dead.

I am playing indoors tomorrow so will use another racquet with fresh string but will keep the well used one for the remainder of the "outdoor winter season".

As an added benefit, the gut has a festive Santa's beard going.
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
Depending on who I play, 17g/1.25mm gut (I'll list the various brands later) mains, and 1.2mm Pro Red Code Wax or Poly Tour Fire. crosses, will last from 6 hrs to about 12 hrs. The bigger the hitter I play, the faster the string breaks as I try to hit harder back. Funnily, topspin rally shots aren't as taxing on gut hybrids with a slick cross, especially those with coatings.
 

The Big Kahuna

Hall of Fame
In your signature, it says you play 5.0? I'm a medium hitting 3.5 and I get about 10-14 hours with Tonic / Alu Power in the crosses. The mains snap before they start to fray a lot. I hit fairly flat, so I assume I'm just sawing my strings into each other.
The issue here may be the VS tonic. If you do some reading on the subject you’ll find lots of complaints on numerous threads about tonic not lasting half as long as the regular VS touch does. There’s a reason it’s cheaper.
 

Crashbaby

Semi-Pro
I use vs touch on the mains and got just over 30 hrs of play on my last string job on a blade pro 16 x 19. I’m pretty happy with that. That was a month of play for me.
 

FIRETennis

Professional
The issue here may be the VS tonic. If you do some reading on the subject you’ll find lots of complaints on numerous threads about tonic not lasting half as long as the regular VS touch does. There’s a reason it’s cheaper.

Tonic Ball Feel is a great inexpensive way to experiment with gut and with the feel.
Problem I have with Tonic is that the Ball Feel edition is too thin (8-10h) and the Longevity is too thick. I even have trouble running it through some grommets sometimes.
Tonic is also made from a different part of the the gut so it's the the same fibers as VS. VS has many thin fibers whereas Tonic has thicker coarser fibers. Once Tonic starts to fizzle, it's game over.
The feel gauge for gauge is virtually the same with VS so if one likes Tonic, then VS would add a lot more durability and consistency across the gauge, at a premium.
 

SlvrDragon50

Semi-Pro
I would get pretty consistently 35-40+ hours of good play from my Klip Legend/Grapplesnake Irukandji hybrid with a playable but noticeably worse 10 additional hours before string breakage.
 

Diablo XP

Rookie
Not sure if I am an outlier, or if it helps, but I get only about 8-10 hours out of my setup before gut mains break, and if that doesn't happen can feel the poly crosses losing playability? I think the gut breakage is partially weather dependent as it is sometimes very foggy when I play. Could also be my preferred low tension. It just works for me, and I would never play anything else. Wilson Natural Gut mains/ALU Power crosses @ 48/44 open bed at 16-18.
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
Hey
Not sure if I am an outlier, or if it helps, but I get only about 8-10 hours out of my setup before gut mains break, and if that doesn't happen can feel the poly crosses losing playability? I think the gut breakage is partially weather dependent as it is sometimes very foggy when I play. Could also be my preferred low tension. It just works for me, and I would never play anything else. Wilson Natural Gut mains/ALU Power crosses @ 48/44 open bed at 16-18.

Using Gut/poly I get about twice as long as a full bed of poly. 5-6hrs with full poly and 10-12hrs with Gut/poly. Loss of tension with Gut/poly is normally when it goes for me. Rarely break the strings.
 
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JustTennis76

Hall of Fame
I use it for about 40 hours before I cut it out and restring because it has lost enough tension at that point. I want to keep playing till it breaks this year. Very economical and lasts a while too maintaining playability.
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
I use it for about 40 hours before I cut it out and restring because it has lost enough tension at that point. I want to keep playing till it breaks this year. Very economical and lasts a while too maintaining playability.

Gut/poly is much more economical than many set ups out there. Especially if one is using high Multis full bed or in a hybrid. Lasts much longer than any full poly set up out there in terms of playability for my game.
 

mctennis

Legend
Gut/poly is much more economical than many set ups out there. Especially if one is using high Multis full bed or in a hybrid. Lasts much longer than any full poly set up out there in terms of playability for my game.
Ditto, +1. I can usually tell when the poly gets time to restring. The gut plays great throughout the time.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
I agree. I think gut/poly is should not be overlooked for how long it lasts and it is a great setup for an older player who no longer can benefit from a full poly setup. I tell my buddies to ask for a 3 sets of gut at the holidays. If they buy another set at $40 on their own they can keep 2 racquets in string for a year restringing every 2 months.
 

The Big Kahuna

Hall of Fame
@ aaron_h27 - 1) are you speaking purely from an economic/finance perspective, and 2) do you not appreciate nor like the unique Feel & Playability of a Natural Gut HYBRID setup? i.e. you get the plush comfort, feel, & playability of NG (which poly doesn't offer), and (co)Poly adds firmness to the stringbed (which NG doesn't offer), resulting in your shots feeling way more controlled, solid, & powerful. IMO the latter points is the strongest justification & reasoning for hybrid because it's a drastic & dramatic difference.
If you string with Volkl V-Fuse you can get gut/poly performance at poly prices. An incredible value at $20. a set on sale! Like it better than my VS Touch / Lux ALU Power hybrid at half the price.
 
Coming to this thread cause im breaking the gut in 4 hours playtime, high level comeptitive tennis tho. Guess il have to go back to full poly.
 

Hawks9451

Professional
So rec league folks use Nat Gut mains and poly crosses for a couple of weeks or more? Wouldn't any Nat Gut x poly hybrid be limited to the life of the poly, say <12hrs? Just wondering, not trying to be snarky.
Only if you’re sensitive to poly “going dead.” I play until the strings break with a gut cross. With gut mains, the mains will break before work hardening of the poly becomes noticeable. If you’re not a string breaker, use full gut or multi and enjoy long term ligament health.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
Coming to this thread cause im breaking the gut in 4 hours playtime, high level comeptitive tennis tho. Guess il have to go back to full poly.

That is the issue. If you are at that high level where you hit with a lot of spin you an snap the gut. You can go thicker on the cross at the expense of spin but I don't think it is going to help in your case.
 
That is the issue. If you are at that high level where you hit with a lot of spin you an snap the gut. You can go thicker on the cross at the expense of spin but I don't think it is going to help in your case.
I will try the gut on the crosses, but yeah i dont think its gonna work, sad because the first 2 hours were a dream, then it started to fray.
Btw used VsGut 16/ with rpm blast crosses 17.
52/52lbs on a 18x20 blade
 

Federerkblade

Hall of Fame
I have found 10 -12 hours in about 10 days the gut doesn’t have that same feel and connection of softness when new .

I’m using vs touch 1.30
 

Federerkblade

Hall of Fame
Something has gone dead but I thought , the racquet strings is determined 80 % by mains do even if Alu power soft dies so what ..
 

Curtennis

Hall of Fame
If I wasn’t breaking it, I would leave it in for a year. All this talk about the poly crosses going dead is stupid. The mains are moving way more than the crosses are. The crosses not “snapping back” is the least of my concerns.

when’s the last time you looked at your racquet and saw crosses sticking out of place? I see the mains out of place all the time. Never crosses.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
If I wasn’t breaking it, I would leave it in for a year. All this talk about the poly crosses going dead is stupid. The mains are moving way more than the crosses are. The crosses not “snapping back” is the least of my concerns.

when’s the last time you looked at your racquet and saw crosses sticking out of place? I see the mains out of place all the time. Never crosses.
I don’t play with dead poly because my arm/wrist starts hurting and at least a few hours before it, my control gets erratic when I aim for my usual small targets near the lines. It doesn’t have anything to do with lost spin generation or strings being out of place.

If your targets are larger and your body doesn’t hurt, you don’t need to cut out dead poly. But most players will experience one or the other issue.
 

Curtennis

Hall of Fame
I don’t play with dead poly because my arm/wrist starts hurting and at least a few hours before it, my control gets erratic when I aim for my usual small targets near the lines. It doesn’t have anything to do with lost spin generation or strings being out of place.

If your targets are larger and your body doesn’t hurt, you don’t need to cut out dead poly. But most players will experience one or the other issue.
With gut in the mains I’m not sure I’d feel the crosses if they were made out of steel. To each their own tho.
 
I
Only if you’re sensitive to poly “going dead.” I play until the strings break with a gut cross. With gut mains, the mains will break before work hardening of the poly becomes noticeable. If you’re not a string breaker, use full gut or multi and enjoy long term ligament health.
If you're not chopping through the gut, why not use gut/multi instead of gut/poly and mitigate tension loss in the crosses?
 

LOBALOT

Legend
I will try the gut on the crosses, but yeah i dont think its gonna work, sad because the first 2 hours were a dream, then it started to fray.
Btw used VsGut 16/ with rpm blast crosses 17.
52/52lbs on a 18x20 blade

I wouldn't really spend for gut in the crosses. It isn't worth it.
 

LOBALOT

Legend
@LOBALOT Really interesting perspective for Gut as a cross from Karue here: Is Natural Gut The Secret To EFFORTLESS POWER? (Link)

A couple of things on this.

1. He indicates he never used it on tour.
2. He has it on the crosses and you can see it is frayed already. Most pros play with a racquet for 7 games and swap out before the bed locks up. Most rec players can't afford that. .
3. He indicates he finds gut mains/poly cross too powerful so perhaps it is. To each their own. He indicates he played on tour. How many of us have played on tour or have that power of a game to find it too powerful?
4. One can achieve that power with a soft cross if they don't care about it locking up due to fraying with a cheaper multi and get the "effortless power" as he indicates.
 
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