You lost all credibility when u compared Carlitos to Johansson.
How long until(if?) Alcaraz gets the career slam?
- Thread starter FlatShot_V
- Start date
insideoutforehanders
Rookie
So he is a natural surfaces specialist permanently you think?
FlatShot_V
Rookie
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Tallawah Tennis
Professional
Hi there, man. I'm a Carlitos fan - enjoy his game, admire his achievements. For me, he's hardly started and talk of being a specialist is premature. Talk of being anything permanently also seems premature, given that he is still young. I'd say that he's shown excellent ability on all surfaces, and is currently capable of continuing that trend. What do you think?
So after getting lucky at the USO, but having shown prowess to win 3 others, you suggest that Carlitos should not even try to win a calendar slam? Please illuminate us further - should he leave the tour because he is a hopeless case unless he gets lucky?
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ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
No. While struggling on the faster conditions last year to end the season, he’s shown some improvement at Beijing beating sinner and winning Rotterdam.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see him get AO next year. He’s still working on parts of his game that include playing more efficient tennis.
His overly aggressive style is definitely suited for slower surfaces but he’s shown signs of the ability to check into a plan b. Tommy Paul QF match is good example where he seemed to just counter TP’s aggressive strategy and baited him into more errors.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
You clearly didn’t see him being bullied around by someone who is almost 40 years old in the AO QF this year. He isn’t remotely close of winning the title.
Sinner played a B- level mode, given he had a lot on his mind with the WADA reappeal, he dropped the most sets in a hardcourt tournament that year, cause of it.
Rotterdam was a very depleted field, and almost lost to Hurkacz.
I don’t see him winning AO until he changes his game plan. AO suits flat hitters like Sinner. He won’t be winning AO until he gets rid of JC Ferrero.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
You speak very low of djokovic as if he’s some 37 year old scrub…I’m unsure what you watch. Father Time wins out eventually. But djokos level is still there. His high pace and depth still cripples opponents and can neutralize attacking players like alcaraz.
A 37 year old man with a bum knee made a Wimbledon final and won the Olympics 6-8 weeks removed from surgery.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I didn't mean he shouldn't vie for it, just that as of now him being one away from the career slam doesn't accurately reflect his current all-surface ability. His USO run was pretty lucky in the grand scheme of things and has created the illusion that he has mastered all surfaces.
I'm saying that as of now he is lucky to even be going for the career slam, not that he won't eventually get it. It's like Nadal getting the career slam already before 2009.
insideoutforehanders
Rookie
Alcarez still shouldn't be losing to Djokovic anywhere at this stage. Especially in a best of 5. That Djokovic probably had a real injury for once (not one of his million fake injuries) makes it worse still.
Racquet_smash
Professional
It was a clear fluke even back then.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Carlos isn't your ordinary 21 year old either so he shouldn't be losing to Djokovic at this stage.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
The hate for Djoko is unreal.
Every time he’s injured it’s “fake”.
alcaraz shouldn’t be losing to him but this is why the level of the BIg both mentally and physically is going to be hard to repeat. Federer was great in his mid 30’s. Rafa got two slams in there. Djoko still going deep into events but as you can see the recovery timeline is not as quick as it used to be.
Djoko mentally and physically is the goat. Hands down.
Tallawah Tennis
Professional
Enjoy your take on much that is said on this board, man. This obssession with Novak's age blinds some to the reality, that Novak can still- when on- play better than most on tour. What amuses me is the double standard that is bandied about- if Carlitos loses to Novak, he is a failure. If he beats Novak, it doesn't count because Novak is past his sell by date. Hilarious stuff.
That said, Carlitos's inconsistencies can often result in wtf losses and those requiring certainty or adherence to their percieved trajectory will, I acknowledge, feel justified in questioning his potential. Interesting times these, when the last of the old guard is in the twilight of his career, and the younger generation is developing their respective careers. Gaps are meant to be filled - let's see how this pans out.
dking68
G.O.A.T.
And you see his results improving from last year given that he’s 38 next month?
Tallawah Tennis
Professional
Yah man - get it - thanks for clarifying. We probably have a different perspective on the potential of players showing excellent abilities. Even if Carlitos hadn't won USO 2022 ( at 19!!!) my take would be that he is talented enough to win the career slam if he continues to play well, and can potentially do so. He is an all surface player, and still developing his game. There is ample talk on this board of how he will never achieve x or y - my answer is, let's wait and see. Neither I or those making such comments know what will come to pass. Cheers.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Actually yeah. SF where a hamstring tear prevented him from a final.
He’s still a fantastic player on the clay despite not liking it and winning the gold at RG.
I won’t discount djoker out of the GS title convo until he’s rolled out earlier in the tournament from AO-RG-Wim.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Overly aggressive style is definitely suited for slower surfaces.....Is overly aggressive how we used to refer to clay courters?
dking68
G.O.A.T.
You know why he won the Olympic gold without dropping a set last year? Because it was played in the blazing hot summer heat where the conditions at Chatrier are faster than they normally are, as it was played in July. Now, he’s playing in Spring when the conditions are slower than those conditions at the Olympics, which is why I put him as a fourth round at best at RG this year. He should’ve lost to Cerundolo last year, who choked, and also Musetti should’ve beat him last year. Now he’s coming in at 38, and I don’t see him being very competitive.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
He would definitely win many titles on fast surfaces. Including possibly a few atp finals.
Incognito
Legend
It’s the one person Sinner admitted he doesn’t like playing.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Yup. Very interesting to see how it develops. Does Alcaraz rule natural surfaces and Sinner hard? Do they ever beat each other on "home Slams"? Will there be a lot of epic battles between them, or will they mostly build their resumes in parallel? Does one of them separate from the other etc etc.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
In fact it's great
Raz beat sinner in five at rg
Sinner beat raz in Wimbledon way back in 2022
Raz beat Sinner in usopen same year.
This shows they can beat each other on every surface. That's what we love. They can beat each other on every surface.
Some members need to be ignored.
Incognito
Legend
Shouldn’t aggressive style suit faster surfaces? See Sampras or Federer?
Anyway, there are no fast surfaces on tour. There’s slow (all HCs and Wim) and slower (Monte Carlo-Munich).
The only thing fast is Halle and Queens.
FlatShot_V
Rookie
Why would faster conditions hamper alcaraz against djokovic, when alcaraz just beat him in a faster surface not long before?
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Grass being faster is a bit of an overstatement vs what it was years ago.
Hard to gauge alcaraz mentality and how he plays on faster indoor courts bc the results tend to lean better on slower surfaces. But results on faster surfaces aren’t bad, just seems bearable vs slow
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
So Sinner has a win each on clay and grass and Alcaraz has multiple wins on hard.
Concern for Sinner is that Alcaraz has beat him on hard courts, even fast ones like Paris and Beijing. Concern for Alcaraz is that Sinner won their only grass match, and Wimbledon will be central to Alcaraz' hardware quest.
On the high end we could be watching something like what Fed-Djoko could have been like if Nadal played soccer instead. Fed would have piled up the channel Slams until 14/15 and Djoko would have owned Hard starting in 2010/11. Exciting potential
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Carlos style times the ball better on slower surfaces vs faster conditions. It’s not that he won’t win a title on faster surfaces, but it’s also match up dependent. Someone like Djoko can beat him with depth and pace and neutralize his style of play and can get pressed into errors if not patient enough to play those extended rallies.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
I am not putting limitations on Alcaraz. I just thought it was funny that they paired his aggressive style with slower surfaces?
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Exactly.
I don't know why we give some very loud mouth members so much space. Both sinner and raz can beat each other on every surface I think.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Carlos style times the ball better on slower surfaces vs faster conditions. It’s not that he won’t win a title on faster surfaces, but it’s also match up dependent. Someone like Djoko can beat him with depth and pace and neutralize his style of play and can get pressed into errors if not patient enough to play those extended rallies.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Grass is funny now. We grew to view it as opposite to clay primarily because of Fedal but now we are seeing two players emerging who are arguably better on clay AND grass than they are on hard courts (Alcaraz and Musetti).
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Lol not going to answer this bc the conditions are still slower.
And shoulda woulda coulda pal. Tennis is a game of inches where winning most matches equals 52-53% of points won gets you a win.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Mussetti is probably a better example. His success on hard courts is not very good.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Exactly.
We are actually in that old 70s to 2000s thinking not just fedal.
Very old thinking.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
If I'm thinking as an Alcaraz fan (I kinda am, at least relative to Sinner), I'm very worried about what that Wimbledon match could mean.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Sinner is probably better grass player than clay. I don't know if he would beat raz in rg 25 today.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
I was gonna say that but didn't want to sound like too much of a fanboy...but yeah he has kinda emerged as a natural surface specialist
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
I don’t think you come across as a “fan boy” compared to some here lol
dking68
G.O.A.T.
When you see him don’t make the second week this year, don’t be surprised. I can’t see a 38 year old player being competitive at RG. If King Nadal couldn’t do it, I can’t see it for him.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Thanks, I try to keep it balanced lol
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
I agree completely
Sinner power could overcome Charles touch on grass. Alcaraz advantage could be that the surface will be much slower and drier by the time they meet there at this stage of their careers
dking68
G.O.A.T.
You realize that he would’ve gotten a historic beat down if he made the final? Although I’d expect he would’ve put up a bigger fight than Zverev did
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
You’re making a prediction that will eventually be right bc Father Time wins out. When ? We don’t know until it happens.
I choose to respect the GOAT who just played an AO SF and Miami final as of recent. Lol
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Depends. When they met, it was R4.
The courts slow down as the tournament progresses.
Last year Carlos got stronger in the second week from a near upset to Foe to beating TP, Medvedev and Djoko pretty smoothly.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Right, that's the point I'm trying to make. They will likely be meeting in SF or F only for the next 5-7 years. So could favor Raz more
dking68
G.O.A.T.
Point is, do you see his results improving, worsening or staying the same as last year?
Alcaraz is about to hit his “prime”. Sinner looked like a wrecking machine at AO.
Both of them are already HOF players, and shouldn’t be losing to a guy 38 years old. It’s time for him to be packing.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Carlos' best asset is his craftiness. Clay rewards this. Rafa, Guga, Henin, etc., all took advantage of this.
Carlos benefits from this in a similar way, but like a Roger, Stan, Soderling or Tsitsipas, also can power through the court.
Nole beat him on clay last year for a reason.
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