How Many Accomplished Tennis Players Would Agree With My Pickleball Rule Changes?

louis netman

Hall of Fame
1) Scrap the kitchen and make the court 3-4 feet wider, 6 feet longer (rationale: more ability to hit passing shots, lob becomes a bigger threat, gets rid of boring dink play).
Have you ever seen tennis players drop shotting each other over and over again?

2) Scrap the server "bounce" rule (rationale: allow for classic serve & volley play and make the game more exciting and athletic).

3) Scrap the rules against paddle surface being tacky and/or rough (rationale: allow for more skilled player control over the ball with spin, just like in tennis and ping pong).

4) Change the ball composition to 1) work with "grippier" paddles, and 2) to make for a less repulsive sound at impact (rationale: same as above)

IMHO, the game will become more exciting and spectator friendly with these simple rule changes. Perhaps baseline rallies may emerge, which leads to strategizing and more spectacular shotmaking!
New pickleball court housing developments will have less legal strife from noise issues.

I'd like to hear your comments!
 

treo

Semi-Pro
Except for #1 this already exists with Spec Tennis, which uses existing pickleball courts. Biggest problem with Spec Tennis is few know about it or play it and the vast majority of both tennis and pickleball players are not interested in it. Same problem with Pop Tennis and Paddle Tennis. If there was Spec, Pop, and Paddle tennis nearby and with plenty of players I would play it but now I just play pickleball and tennis because there are easily accessible places to play every day.

Pop Tennis uses the junior lines already there on most tennis courts and Paddle Tennis uses a longer court than pickleball. Both use the green dot ball and Spec uses the orange dot. These sports already exist that use your ideas but have no momentum of popularity. I've only seen people play paddle tennis in LA and it seems like a snobby country club sport here in Atlanta.
 

atatu

Legend
My suggestion to pickleball players is to change the ridiculous scoring system and adopt the table tennis scoring format. Look at what volleyball did in changing the side out rule, it worked.
 

treo

Semi-Pro
Rumor is next year it will change to rally scoring mainly for consistent game duration for commercial breaks.
 

treo

Semi-Pro
If you suggest to pickleball players to make it more like tennis they will reply it is fine the way it is and go play tennis instead. I agree with this video that tennis is superior to pickleball but he also touches on the point that pickleball is more fun than tennis.
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
Except for #1 this already exists with Spec Tennis, which uses existing pickleball courts. Biggest problem with Spec Tennis is few know about it or play it and the vast majority of both tennis and pickleball players are not interested in it. Same problem with Pop Tennis and Paddle Tennis. If there was Spec, Pop, and Paddle tennis nearby and with plenty of players I would play it but now I just play pickleball and tennis because there are easily accessible places to play every day.

Pop Tennis uses the junior lines already there on most tennis courts and Paddle Tennis uses a longer court than pickleball. Both use the green dot ball and Spec uses the orange dot. These sports already exist that use your ideas but have no momentum of popularity. I've only seen people play paddle tennis in LA and it seems like a snobby country club sport here in Atlanta.
I just checked out Spec Tennis on YouTube- I'm ready to trade it for pickleball! I'd be hard-pressed to find playing partners, however...
 

David I.

New User
I bought four spec tennis paddles and brought them to Pickleball night of a dozen players. The only one who would play was the high school kid and the others showed no interest.
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
I bought four spec tennis paddles and brought them to Pickleball night of a dozen players. The only one who would play was the high school kid and the others showed no interest.
Question: What was the tennis (not pickleball) level of the disinterested players?
From what I've gathered, spec tennis appears to be a good option for 1) accomplished tennis players and 2) beginning tennis hopefuls. The pickleball crowd will prefer their clanky plastic balls and dink play.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
1) Scrap the kitchen and make the court 3-4 feet wider, 6 feet longer (rationale: more ability to hit passing shots, lob becomes a bigger threat, gets rid of boring dink play).
Have you ever seen tennis players drop shotting each other over and over again?

2) Scrap the server "bounce" rule (rationale: allow for classic serve & volley play and make the game more exciting and athletic).

3) Scrap the rules against paddle surface being tacky and/or rough (rationale: allow for more skilled player control over the ball with spin, just like in tennis and ping pong).

4) Change the ball composition to 1) work with "grippier" paddles, and 2) to make for a less repulsive sound at impact (rationale: same as above)

IMHO, the game will become more exciting and spectator friendly with these simple rule changes. Perhaps baseline rallies may emerge, which leads to strategizing and more spectacular shotmaking!
New pickleball court housing developments will have less legal strife from noise issues.

I'd like to hear your comments!
I’m all in. Even if court stays same size, adopting those other rules are essential to get me!
 

David I.

New User
Question: What was the tennis (not pickleball) level of the disinterested players?
From what I've gathered, spec tennis appears to be a good option for 1) accomplished tennis players and 2) beginning tennis hopefuls. The pickleball crowd will prefer their clanky plastic balls and dink play.
All the good tennis players that I have tried to get to play pickleball or Spec say they don't want to because it will hurt their tennis game. This is true in the short term but if you play multiple sports regularly it won't.

If you follow the Spec FB page, the inventor seems to have turned his focus on using Spec as an easier way to learn tennis. I don't see it becoming popular. What is popular is what I play so I bring along both a racquet and pickleball paddle.

Playing Spec singles is not that different from pickleball singles. Dinking doesn't happen much and you can allow serve and volley if you want to. Go out and try it with serving 4 feet behind the baseline. Spec found out that serve and volley at the baseline was too easy for put aways so they moved it 4 feet back at the corner.
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
All the good tennis players that I have tried to get to play pickleball or Spec say they don't want to because it will hurt their tennis game. This is true in the short term but if you play multiple sports regularly it won't.

If you follow the Spec FB page, the inventor seems to have turned his focus on using Spec as an easier way to learn tennis. I don't see it becoming popular. What is popular is what I play so I bring along both a racquet and pickleball paddle.

Playing Spec singles is not that different from pickleball singles. Dinking doesn't happen much and you can allow serve and volley if you want to. Go out and try it with serving 4 feet behind the baseline. Spec found out that serve and volley at the baseline was too easy for put aways so they moved it 4 feet back at the corner.
I'll have to admit that if I wasn't approaching my 60s with multiple injuries from a car wreck, I, like your comrades, wouldn't even consider pickleball. Further, my father would be turning in his grave after all the $$, time and dedication that went into developing my tennis game as youngster.

And, you're right about singles P-ball being more tennis-like (less dink play)--

However, four feet back on our newly built P-ball courts means your ridiculously priced paddle will be colliding with the back fence on the takeback!
 

djNEiGht

Legend
1) Scrap the kitchen and make the court 3-4 feet wider, 6 feet longer (rationale: more ability to hit passing shots, lob becomes a bigger threat, gets rid of boring dink play).
Have you ever seen tennis players drop shotting each other over and over again?

2) Scrap the server "bounce" rule (rationale: allow for classic serve & volley play and make the game more exciting and athletic).

3) Scrap the rules against paddle surface being tacky and/or rough (rationale: allow for more skilled player control over the ball with spin, just like in tennis and ping pong).

4) Change the ball composition to 1) work with "grippier" paddles, and 2) to make for a less repulsive sound at impact (rationale: same as above)

IMHO, the game will become more exciting and spectator friendly with these simple rule changes. Perhaps baseline rallies may emerge, which leads to strategizing and more spectacular shotmaking!
New pickleball court housing developments will have less legal strife from noise issues.

I'd like to hear your comments!
My suggestion to pickleball players is to change the ridiculous scoring system and adopt the table tennis scoring format. Look at what volleyball did in changing the side out rule, it worked.
1 - For me...it's hard to remove the kitchen as I've been focusing on getting better at it. I'd keep the kitchen and if there was a dimension change, maybe something like tennis...singles/doubles dimension.
2 - this could be interesting. currently the serving team has to have a great 3rd shot.
3 - not sure if I get this...make paddle regulations stricter or allow for varied texture?
4 - sound...yes sound...

volleyball scoring - yes!!!
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
1 - For me...it's hard to remove the kitchen as I've been focusing on getting better at it. I'd keep the kitchen and if there was a dimension change, maybe something like tennis...singles/doubles dimension.
2 - this could be interesting. currently the serving team has to have a great 3rd shot.
3 - not sure if I get this...make paddle regulations stricter or allow for varied texture?
4 - sound...yes sound...

volleyball scoring - yes!!!
As it stands, the slippery paddle / whiffle ball combo (and the rules prohibiting spin enhancing paddle surfaces) "dumb" down the game.

Tennis and Ping Pong became Olympic (real) sports due to the fact that skilled players are able to control every facet of their shots.
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
How about if you wanna play Pickleball like tennis, just play tennis.
Agreed. But easier said than done when you have severe TE, among other things. Pickleball is simply less taxing on the body. That's why it's become so popular with the senior crowd...

I also coach pickleball and I have an 83 year old lady student who has become a fanatic. In fact, she said that it's the reason she wakes up in the morning. She told me that in her entire lifetime, she has never engaged in any sporting activity.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Agreed. But easier said than done when you have severe TE, among other things. Pickleball is simply less taxing on the body. That's why it's become so popular with the senior crowd...

I also coach pickleball and I have an 83 year old lady student who has become a fanatic. In fact, she said that it's the reason she wakes up in the morning. She told me that in her entire lifetime, she has never engaged in any sporting activity.
Agree, but my point was people wanting to change pickle to be like tennis.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
If pickleball was more like tennis (with no more dinking back & forth), it would lose most of its appeal for the "recreational" senior crowd.
That’s very true and to my point. Pickle is fun and keeps seniors moving, I play it. It’s a great way to socialize. But I don’t enjoy watching it it’s boring even at high level and especially on TV, Of course I never share my thoughts with dedicated pickler friends.
 

StringGuruMRT

Semi-Pro
I agree that pickleball should stay different than tennis. Thats not to say that there aren't rules that should be revised, or changed, but I think a lot of that will happen as it becomes more popular on a professional level, and there is more motivation to evolve the game.

Somethin I saw quite a bit of this weekend while playing pickleball at the USTA National Campus, was Padel. That seems like a nice mix of the speed of tennis, with the smaller court like Pickleball. Or maybe a better comparison would be platform tennis that can be played when the temperature is above 50 degrees. IT's too fast and physical for seniors, but if you're looking for something like Pickleball with a little more tennis feel to it, it could fit the bill!
 

Tennisplyr

Rookie
I don’t see why pb should be like tennis, it’s unique and fun. Just because there are similarities to tennis and it has attracted lots of tennis players doesn’t mean tennis should be a model. Scoring in pb in unnecessarily confusin.
 

StringGuruMRT

Semi-Pro
Scoring is more complicated than it needs to be for a game invented in the last 60 years, that hasn't had time to build up much tradition. They can update it to rally scoring pretty easily now. Pickleball is definitely at a point where they are trying to "sure up" the rules and "professionalize" it for future growth
 

treo

Semi-Pro
Pickleball tournaments in my state don't make sense to me. I've seen several results where the undefeated player doesn't get gold. Here is an example.

It is round robin only. They should at least have a medal round that is best of 3. Instead they have it where everyone plays the same amount of games.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Scoring is more complicated than it needs to be for a game invented in the last 60 years, that hasn't had time to build up much tradition. They can update it to rally scoring pretty easily now. Pickleball is definitely at a point where they are trying to "sure up" the rules and "professionalize" it for future growth
Nothing is fair in competition.
I once played a NorCal University and College Foil fencing tourney.
250 male "novice" fencers, me 1st semester, some dudes 3rd semester. I lost TWO matches out of 16, both to the winner of the comp. He was 3rd semester from Standord U, where the tourney was held. He was undefeated.
Nobody else got more than 3 points against me. Not 2nd place, not 3rd, not 4th, not 5th, not 6th.
I was awarded 7th Overall, 1968 NorCal Novice in foil.
I got a B- in that class.
Nobody else in that class won a match. I won 14 matches.
Maestro Markee, 1955 Gold Metal winner Olympics.
 

StringGuruMRT

Semi-Pro
LOL. In my first Pickleball tournament I played in the mixed doubles, and men's singles. Because there weren't a lot of men signed up for singles they combined a few divisions into one draw (19+). I finished a distant third that day, but because I was the top finisher in my age group, they still gave me a gold medal for that to go with the bronze for the actual division. It was a hollow victory to say the least! :-D
 

TripleB

Hall of Fame
I say leave all pickleball rules exactly as they are now. The unfathomable growth of pickleball over the past two years has taken place without many rules changes over that time period so why change something that easily and quickly become the fastest growing sport in the US the way it is?

TripleB
 

louis netman

Hall of Fame
Agreed, in terms of growing the sport. Indeed it's unfathomable in the rate at which its grown.

Where I live, they turned rarely used tennis court into four dedicated P-ball courts and it's literally a zoo in the mornings and evenings EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK!
16 players on the courts, with players on the sidelines waiting to play.

Let me clarify that this thread had no intention to disparage the USAPA or the P-ball community.

It was intended to address accomplished tennis players who have picked up the game, who may be experiencing the same plight I'm facing.
 

nvr2old

Hall of Fame
Agreed, in terms of growing the sport. Indeed it's unfathomable in the rate at which its grown.

Where I live, they turned rarely used tennis court into four dedicated P-ball courts and it's literally a zoo in the mornings and evenings EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK!
16 players on the courts, with players on the sidelines waiting to play.

Let me clarify that this thread had no intention to disparage the USAPA or the P-ball community.

It was intended to address accomplished tennis players who have picked up the game, who may be experiencing the same plight I'm facing.
No tennis court closures here but yes MANY players in community gym next door and at another park playing on makeshift courts. New PB courts scheduled to be built soon. No disparagement taken. If TW guys play both why not! Honestly it’s different but fun in its own right.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Except for #1 this already exists with Spec Tennis, which uses existing pickleball courts. Biggest problem with Spec Tennis is few know about it or play it and the vast majority of both tennis and pickleball players are not interested in it. Same problem with Pop Tennis and Paddle Tennis. If there was Spec, Pop, and Paddle tennis nearby and with plenty of players I would play it but now I just play pickleball and tennis because there are easily accessible places to play every day.

Pop Tennis uses the junior lines already there on most tennis courts and Paddle Tennis uses a longer court than pickleball. Both use the green dot ball and Spec uses the orange dot. These sports already exist that use your ideas but have no momentum of popularity. I've only seen people play paddle tennis in LA and it seems like a snobby country club sport here in Atlanta.
I saw something played on Venice Beach in California on a full sized tennis court, but with shorter racquets and underhanded serves. The ball was slower than in traditional tennis. The whole court was used and it looked really fun. Do you know what that would be. Spec tennis sounds great.
 

nvr2old

Hall of Fame
So as a follow up question/comment. Do most tennis players enjoy playing singles or doubles? How about spectating singles or doubles? I've played tennis for 56 or 57 years give or take off and on. I truly love playing singles tennis, doubles not as much. However I enjoy watching both singles and doubles tennis especially doubles when both teams are at the net. PB can be similar to tennis in singles but doubles PB is predicated on touch at the net AND the opportunity to have fast paced volleys/passes/slams with both teams at the net is very fun. Also the terminology "dink" could/should be changed to touch shot, feel, drop, etc IMO as dink has a rather disparaging connotation and frankly sounds kind of lame IMO. BTW its not only the seniors playing. Yesterday at our clubs open play there were 48 players, at least a third not seniors (and one very accomplished 10 year old!).
 

djNEiGht

Legend
I most often play tennis doubles but don't mind singles pending my knees feel okay. lol Watching tour level doubles I think I prefer over singles.

PB playing...have just played doubles as of late. Watching...hhhhmmm...not sure but leaning towards doubles.
 

treo

Semi-Pro
So as a follow up question/comment. Do most tennis players enjoy playing singles or doubles? How about spectating singles or doubles? I've played tennis for 56 or 57 years give or take off and on. I truly love playing singles tennis, doubles not as much. However I enjoy watching both singles and doubles tennis especially doubles when both teams are at the net. PB can be similar to tennis in singles but doubles PB is predicated on touch at the net AND the opportunity to have fast paced volleys/passes/slams with both teams at the net is very fun. Also the terminology "dink" could/should be changed to touch shot, feel, drop, etc IMO as dink has a rather disparaging connotation and frankly sounds kind of lame IMO. BTW its not only the seniors playing. Yesterday at our clubs open play there were 48 players, at least a third not seniors (and one very accomplished 10 year old!).
Regarding spectating pickleball, it can get rather dull unless they are players you also play against. I've been to 3 pro pickleball tournaments and the first two were exciting to watch because of the newness. By the third, watching the best players in the world can get boring. The last one I went to was one of the biggest in the country and during the finals the stands were half empty and hardly anybody in the reserved seats. Spectators are mainly other players and the so called grand slams will never be as popular as a pro tennis tournament.
 

atatu

Legend
Regarding spectating pickleball, it can get rather dull unless they are players you also play against. I've been to 3 pro pickleball tournaments and the first two were exciting to watch because of the newness. By the third, watching the best players in the world can get boring. The last one I went to was one of the biggest in the country and during the finals the stands were half empty and hardly anybody in the reserved seats. Spectators are mainly other players and the so called grand slams will never be as popular as a pro tennis tournament.
Maybe because it gets boring watching "professionals" dink back and forth all day ?
 

optic yellow

Professional
Regarding spectating pickleball, it can get rather dull unless they are players you also play against. I've been to 3 pro pickleball tournaments and the first two were exciting to watch because of the newness. By the third, watching the best players in the world can get boring. The last one I went to was one of the biggest in the country and during the finals the stands were half empty and hardly anybody in the reserved seats. Spectators are mainly other players and the so called grand slams will never be as popular as a pro tennis tournament.
Professional racquetball has the same problem.
 
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