How many hours to get good serve?

[Michael Carter]

Let's say one is an intermediate player who has really only ever played socially (i.e., hit around) and therefore never really learned to serve.

How long does it take to go from having almost no ability to serve to having a respectable, reasonably powerful, consistent serve that one could use to be competitive in intermediate matches?

Just curious what we are talking about in terms of hours of practice. At the moment I am taking lessons for about two hours a week. I wonder if we are talking about something that takes 10s of hours of practice, 100s, or even 1000s or what.

 

[dr7]

This is a question where there isn't a definitive number. My question to you is, " how long does it take for a woman to be pretty?" Kind of depends what she already looks like. Same logic as to how long it takes to get a good serve.


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[cknobman]

1230.4

 

[pc1]

How many hours would it take me to get a John Isner level serve? My answer for multiple choice would be "Not Applicable" because even if I practiced properly for an infinite amount of time it wouldn't happen.

To get back on topic, obviously the answer depends on your physical talent, coordination and ability to learn. Some pick it up easily and some like an Elena Dementieva always seem to have problems. Elena was a gifted talent but she never really had a consistent serve. At times she was okay but often she'd return to her old habits. I'm sure she always practiced her serve.

 

[tennis tom]

You also have to be practicing the right technique, otherwise you get good at doing the wrong thing. Ask your coach, is the two hours a week all on the serve or on all the game? Check with your coach. I have a really good serve but I still practice it as much as time allows. It's the most important shot in tennis, if you can get the ball in the box they have to play you. And, you can do it alone, just save up about fifty balls and when you see an empty court jump on it and hit serves. Watch videos of the best servers like Roscoe Tanner, Sampras and Fed. You also have to aim for the "locations", the T, slice wide and into the body--don't ignore the second serve, topspin--your first serve is only as good as your confidence in your 2nd. That should keep you busy for about twenty years.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

3, exactly 3

 

[Brokenstrings]

Depends on your definition of good. I'd say for most good athletes it would take a year of regular practice (4x week) to get solid.

 

[tennis tom]

To OP, tell us what you know about how to serve.

 

[Turbo-87]

1230.4

Isn't that the MPH LeeD served in 1979?

 

[LeeD]

Laugh all you want, but also ....think.
I"ve been playing tennis since 1974. In 1977, I lost a finals in C (3.5), then won the following Oakland City Open in the C's. By 1978, my serve was as fast as anyone's at Golden Gate Park, but of course, missed a lot.
NOW, 39 year's later, I"m 67 year's old, and if you bothered to ask Shroud, Papa, Matt, VitaminL, Volynets, Yaz, President, or any of the other 7 or so guys who played me the past 4 years, they well say I can serve "around 100", around because none of us have radar, and my serve are no slower than anyone's who's not a 4.5 level player. Matt is faster, VitaminL bounce higher, but the speed is within 10 mph of Matt's best.
Now, if you can think. I"ve aged 39 year's since 1978. Do you think I should STILL serve at 129 mph? Maybe age takes a toll on the body, and when a human reach's 60+, he's not the same physical specimen he was at age 28.
The fact I can approach 100, or even 90, at age 67, after all the injuries I"ve gone thru...3 lower legs, 4 different collarbones, double handful of ribs, separations of the left shoulder and dislocates, mean's I could serve MUCH faster 39 year's ago.

 

[mrw]

About 10 years ago I was making it a point to serve at least 200 balls a day. i am on the road for my job and had all kinds of tennis courts everywhere. I would take a break around 10am and fire off serves. I could pick off cones anywhere on the court with my serve.

Life got in the way for a bit and now at 62 i am again seeking that accuracy and power once again.

I am finding that unless I devote equal hours to working the core and upper body, I am prone to a stiff shoulder and cramping muscles in my neck. Age sucks but conditioning can knock a few years off.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

It depends heavily on variables like:

- athleticism
- hand-to-eye coordination
- conditioning
- strength
- flexibility

If you're at the top end of those areas, you could develop a pretty good serve within a few months of diligent practice and good coaching. If you're near the bottom, you may never develop such a serve. Assuming you're average, say 9-12 months.

This would be if you were concentrating solely on your serve. Since there so many other parts to the game you probably don't want to ignore, time stretches out.

How about an alternative: don't worry about how long it takes to get from here to there. Embrace the *process* of improvement. It's not as if you'll hit some magical point where all of a sudden you are a "good" tennis player: it's going to come in fits and starts, with plateaus and valleys and giant leaps. And you'll never run out of potential for improvement.

You might want to video yourself [more frequently in the early stages because that's when improvement will be the most rapid] so you can compare various stages.

Enjoy!

 

[samarai]

sometimes it jsut wont happen. there are plenty of players on my court who have played for years even up to a 4.5 level who just gets the serve in and there motion looks nothing like a good pro serve.

 

[sureshs]

10000

 

[dgold44]

Let's say one is an intermediate player who has really only ever played socially (i.e., hit around) and therefore never really learned to serve.

How long does it take to go from having almost no ability to serve to having a respectable, reasonably powerful, consistent serve that one could use to be competitive in intermediate matches?

Just curious what we are talking about in terms of hours of practice. At the moment I am taking lessons for about two hours a week. I wonder if we are talking about something that takes 10s of hours of practice, 100s, or even 1000s or what.

Hours is irrelevant
It's technique only

 

[dr7]

About 10 years ago I was making it a point to serve at least 200 balls a day. i am on the road for my job and had all kinds of tennis courts everywhere. I would take a break around 10am and fire off serves. I could pick off cones anywhere on the court with my serve.

Life got in the way for a bit and now at 62 i am again seeking that accuracy and power once again.

I am finding that unless I devote equal hours to working the core and upper body, I am prone to a stiff shoulder and cramping muscles in my neck. Age sucks but conditioning can knock a few years off.

" the older we get, the better we used to be "


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[heftylefty]

It's about quality, not quantity. A hundred hours spent on bad technique will do you no good. Find a competent pro. And work on consistency and placement. Plus shore up your second serve.

 

[Dakota C]

Let's say one is an intermediate player who has really only ever played socially (i.e., hit around) and therefore never really learned to serve.

How long does it take to go from having almost no ability to serve to having a respectable, reasonably powerful, consistent serve that one could use to be competitive in intermediate matches?

Just curious what we are talking about in terms of hours of practice. At the moment I am taking lessons for about two hours a week. I wonder if we are talking about something that takes 10s of hours of practice, 100s, or even 1000s or what.

My serve still isn't good, but in total I've put in about 20 hours of serving practice. You need to watch/read the internet to at least get a conscious understanding of what your serve should generally look like. There are phases of learning - Ian from Essential Tennis explains it well in one of his videos on youtube. I also recommend taking notes when you think you've pinpointed something good or bad to remember. I think when I hit 50 hours I'll have a competitive serve.

 

[dr7]

You won't know if your serve is competitive or good until there is someone at your level returning your serve.


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[tennis tom]

To OP, tell us what you know about how to serve.

Looks like the OP has disappeared, another fly-by thread starter, hopefully he's practicing his serve, only 9,000 more hours to go to play in the futures.

 

[NTRPolice]

More like # of balls.

Instruction will help, but ultimately you're going to have to serve a lot to lock it in. Just be careful. Trying to serve 1000 balls in one session will only overly exert you.

-Serve 100 balls
-Serve 100 balls in a one on one lesson
-Serve 100 balls
-Serve 100 balls in a one on one lesson
-Serve 100 balls

ect.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

More like # of balls.

Instruction will help, but ultimately you're going to have to serve a lot to lock it in. Just be careful. Trying to serve 1000 balls in one session will only overly exert you.

-Serve 100 balls
-Serve 100 balls in a one on one lesson
-Serve 100 balls
-Serve 100 balls in a one on one lesson
-Serve 100 balls

ect.

@Dakota C - please make sure you do rotator cuff strengthening exercises too. Wanna make sure those small muscles are able to support the serving motion.

 

[dr7]

More like # of balls.

Instruction will help, but ultimately you're going to have to serve a lot to lock it in. Just be careful. Trying to serve 1000 balls in one session will only overly exert you.

-Serve 100 balls
-Serve 100 balls in a one on one lesson
-Serve 100 balls
-Serve 100 balls in a one on one lesson
-Serve 100 balls

ect.

Will say it again. These numbers are absurd. People master things differently, some really fast, some slow and some just will never be competent. 100 balls, not 96, not 90, but 100, must be magic. Anyone that gives you a definitive number just doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[NTRPolice]

Will say it again. These numbers are absurd. People master things differently, some really fast, some slow and some just will never be competent. 100 balls, not 96, not 90, but 100, must be magic. Anyone that gives you a definitive number just doesn't know what they are talking about.

It's a practice regimen. 100 balls is a good number of balls to work the muscles and lock in the mechanics without overdoing it. I'm sorry your oversimplified thinking is interpreting my statement as "serve 500 balls in this manner and you will be serving 145 flat and 120 spinning into the parking lot."

You must have a problem with every single method of trying to learn anything. It's why there is a curriculum. The only people who fall so far out of range of standard curriculum for it to not apply are special ed students and prodigies. Even then, those far out of range still have custom made curriculums just for them.

Ever been educated before? Sounds like not. You should tell everyone who has been to elementary school or higher, whether home schooled, public, or private, that they are all doing it wrong.

Even if a person serves 150 on the first serve out of 100 balls, it doesnt mean they cant serve the other 99 to work on other things. It doesnt mean they cant just serve 35 and leave it at that. 100 balls is a good number of balls to work on every type of serve. You'd be surprised how fast 100 balls is served when you're working on things like location, speed(s) and spin(s), especially when you dont have all of those serves already learned.

 

[dr7]

It's a practice regimen. 100 balls is a good number of balls to work the muscles and lock in the mechanics without overdoing it. I'm sorry your oversimplified thinking is interpreting my statement as "serve 500 balls in this manner and you will be serving 145 flat and 120 spinning into the parking lot."

You must have a problem with every single method of trying to learn anything. It's why there is a curriculum. The only people who fall so far out of range of standard curriculum for it to not apply are special ed students and prodigies. Even then, those far out of range still have custom made curriculums just for them.

Ever been educated before? Sounds like not. You should tell everyone who has been to elementary school or higher, whether home schooled, public, or private, that they are all doing it wrong.

Even if a person serves 150 on the first serve out of 100 balls, it doesnt mean they cant serve the other 99 to work on other things. It doesnt mean they cant just serve 35 and leave it at that. 100 balls is a good number of balls to work on every type of serve. You'd be surprised how fast 100 balls is served when you're working on things like location, speed(s) and spin(s), especially when you dont have all of those serves already learned.

Thanks, more validation that you are a moron.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

dr7 said: ↑
Will say it again. These numbers are absurd. People master things differently, some really fast, some slow and some just will never be competent. 100 balls, not 96, not 90, but 100, must be magic. Anyone that gives you a definitive number just doesn't know what they are talking about.

It's a practice regimen. 100 balls is a good number of balls to work the muscles and lock in the mechanics without overdoing it. I'm sorry your oversimplified thinking is interpreting my statement as "serve 500 balls in this manner and you will be serving 145 flat and 120 spinning into the parking lot."

Even if a person serves 150 on the first serve out of 100 balls, it doesnt mean they cant serve the other 99 to work on other things. It doesnt mean they cant just serve 35 and leave it at that. 100 balls is a good number of balls to work on every type of serve. You'd be surprised how fast 100 balls is served when you're working on things like location, speed(s) and spin(s), especially when you dont have all of those serves already learned.

@NTRPolice - Your guidelines seem reasonable to me; emphasis on the word *guideline*, as opposed to dogmatic commandment.

it seems to me we've seen a similar rhetorical style from another poster?

 

[NTRPolice]

dr7 said: ↑
Will say it again. These numbers are absurd. People master things differently, some really fast, some slow and some just will never be competent. 100 balls, not 96, not 90, but 100, must be magic. Anyone that gives you a definitive number just doesn't know what they are talking about.



@NTRPolice - Your guidelines seem reasonable to me; emphasis on the word *guideline*, as opposed to dogmatic commandment.

it seems to me we've seen a similar rhetorical style from another poster?

If you break it down...

100 serves total per session
50 serves ad and deuce
25 serves ad/deuce first serves and second serves
3 targets in the service box, corners and middle.

This leaves you about 7-8 practice serves, deuce and ad side, first and second serves, with each serve target location.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Will say it again. These numbers are absurd. People master things differently, some really fast, some slow and some just will never be competent. 100 balls, not 96, not 90, but 100, must be magic. Anyone that gives you a definitive number just doesn't know what they are talking about.

It wasn't a definitive # but a set of guidelines. They seem like good ones to me

What are your guidelines?

 

[tennis tom]

These numbers are absurd.

Actually it's a reasonable number of serves, your average hopper holds about 72 balls, I have a really good serve. When I do a service practice session I'll hit two or three hoppers in a session. I practice my serve as often as I can, I find it meditative. There's always some nuance that I discover in a service practice session.

 

[dr7]

It wasn't a definitive # but a set of guidelines. They seem like good ones to me

What are your guidelines?

I play tennis.

 

[tennis tom]

I play tennis.

What's your curriculum vitae?

 

[dr7]

What's your curriculum vitae?

Nothing special. Back in the day, Football D1 scholarship athlete. Love playing Tennis, 6'2", 195.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Nothing special. Back in the day, Football D1 scholarship athlete. Love playing Tennis, 6'2", 195.

Uh, I wouldn't say a D1 football scholarship is "nothing special". That qualifies as "99.99 percentile". Which means you're extremely athletic.

So you're a great litmus test: how easy was it to transition to tennis? What translated well from football to tennis? What didn't translate so well [obviously the tackling doesn't come into play...much]? How long have you been playing tennis and what's your current NTRP?

 

[dr7]

Actually, picking up Tennis was a breeze. Played baseball as well and that helped. Been playing for 20 yrs. Within my first 6 months I was 5.0. Got married and travel a ton so I don't get to play as much as I would like to anymore. I wouldn't say I am a litmus test as there are some terrific athletes that look like Tarzan, but play like Jane. What translated well, movement, shoulder turn from baseball and when I was instructed to do something I got it and understood. Plus, I genuinely enjoy the game.

 

[tennis tom]

Let's say one is an intermediate player who has really only ever played socially (i.e., hit around) and therefore never really learned to serve.

How long does it take to go from having almost no ability to serve to having a respectable, reasonably powerful, consistent serve that one could use to be competitive in intermediate matches?

Just curious what we are talking about in terms of hours of practice. At the moment I am taking lessons for about two hours a week. I wonder if we are talking about something that takes 10s of hours of practice, 100s, or even 1000s or what.

OK, so what is your recommendation to the OP, and the rest of us morons out here, on what you did to develop your powerful serve, and what those who were not D1 athletes should do?

 

[dr7]

Not sure you are talking to me, but I had an ex D1 college tennis player give me my first tennis instruction. We had similar size and strokes, classic. So when he demonstrated something it was very easy for me to relate. He had a big serve and of course I wanted one. First off I used a continental grip on serve and the emphasis was being "loose". I did throw my racquet a few times and cracked one. To this day on my serve a about a 1/2 inch of my palm is below the butt of the racquet. Have big hands, palm a bball easily, so not sure this will work for everyone. Most people grip the racquet too tight. Also, toss it up and out In front of you, a little bit inside the court and go up and get it. You want your contact point as high as it can be, but remember, hit up on the ball. Also, he emphasized a big shoulder turn. "imagine your name is on the back of your shirt, your opponent should be able to read your name". Also instructed on knee bend, hip rotation, shoulder turn with a very loose arm and wrist. He liked to talk about the " kinetic chain, starting at your feet with a sequence that ends with contact and follow through on balance and into the court. I also have very long arms for my size, wear a 17/37 shirt, so that helped. Of course there were other instruction points, pronation, spin, etc. This is high level what worked for me, not saying this is a prescribed method for others. My racquet is Wilson Pro Staff 6.1 , 90sq. in.

 

[tennis tom]

Not sure you are talking to me, but I had an ex D1 college tennis player give me my first tennis instruction. We had similar size and strokes, classic. So when he demonstrated something it was very easy for me to relate. He had a big serve and of course I wanted one. First off I used a continental grip on serve and the emphasis was being "loose". I did throw my racquet a few times and cracked one. To this day on my serve a about a 1/2 inch of my palm is below the butt of the racquet. Have big hands, palm a bball easily, so not sure this will work for everyone. Most people grip the racquet too tight. Also, toss it up and out In front of you, a little bit inside the court and go up and get it. You want your contact point as high as it can be, but remember, hit up on the ball. Also, he emphasized a big shoulder turn. "imagine your name is on the back of your shirt, your opponent should be able to read your name". Also instructed on knee bend, hip rotation, shoulder turn with a very loose arm and wrist. He liked to talk about the " kinetic chain, starting at your feet with a sequence that ends with contact and follow through on balance and into the court. I also have very long arms for my size, wear a 17/37 shirt, so that helped. Of course there were other instruction points, pronation, spin, etc. This is high level what worked for me, not saying this is a prescribed method for others. My racquet is Wilson Pro Staff 6.1 , 90sq. in.

OK, sounds like you got lucky and found a coach who knew how to teach you to serve. In relation to the OP's question, how long did it take you to master your serve? How many times a week did you practice it, if at all, and how many practice serves did you hit in your practice sessions? If the OP does not have a coach, who can teach the serve like yours did, how long would it take the OP to develop your serve independently? How many hours of practice and how many practice serves? Does your coach teach, could you share his contact info?, he sounds like he know his stuff. If someone is not an athlete to start with, and can't transfer existing athletic skills to his tennis, what practice program do you recommend for that person?

 

[dr7]

I didn't practice, I played. Back then, maybe 4-5 times a week. Without seeing someone serve, I can't recommend anything other than what I have already mentioned above and that wasn't advice, it's just what worked for me. The guy that taught me, no idea where he is now, that was along time ago. Like I have said in numerous posts, there isn't a magic number of hours or strokes that are going to make you proficient, it totally depends on the individual.

 

[tennis tom]

...I didn't practice, I played.
...Without seeing someone serve, I can't recommend anything other than what I have already mentioned above and that wasn't advice, it's just what worked for me.

You are fortunate to have athletic abilities that you were able transfer from one sport to another. From my experience with tennis, you are about 1 in 500 conservatively. That's why I don't understand why you would throw out bombs like "absurd" and "moron" when others try to provide a reasonable practice program to someone without your background. I found the recommendations by others reasonable and I have a very good serve following a similar practice regimen.

 

[dr7]

Seems there are a lot of folks handing out specific advice to players they've never even seen swing a racquet. A bit like a doctor prescribing medication without diagnosing what the patients problem is. So yes, it's absurd. Just my opinion, you are better off looking at YouTube tennis instructional videos from someone who is probably more qualified than most of us and you get to SEE how to do it. Also, some of the people asking the questions and seeking advice don't have any idea. "Hey, how many hours of practice until I have a good serve?" IMO, when someone asks a question like that, clear to me they don't have an understanding of sports and on top of that they get bad advice. My 2 cents.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

You are fortunate to have athletic abilities that you were able transfer from one sport to another. From my experience with tennis, you are about 1 in 500 conservatively.

I would think the # would be closer to 1 in 10,000. Extremely rare.

@schmke - how many in your database have gone from 0 to 5.0 in 6 months?

 

[dr7]

I would think the # would be closer to 1 in 10,000. Extremely rare.

@schmke - how many in your database have gone from 0 to 5.0 in 6 months?

Come on guys, not that big a deal. Also, clearly I didn't start at zero. Back to the discussion, how long does it take?...depends on the person.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Come on guys, not that big a deal. Also, clearly I didn't start at zero. Back to the discussion, how long does it take?...depends on the person.

I took the "1 in 10,000" guess simply to highlight how much of an outlier you are. Add to that the "0 to 5.0 in 6 months" and that makes it even more so.

As far as serving advice goes, I think NTRP's suggestion was sound. It was a guideline, not a formula to solve for x. For the majority of people, it will probably work. For the OP, it will probably work, based on his self-description which puts him somewhere in the range of the median ["Let's say one is an intermediate player who has really only ever played socially (i.e., hit around) and therefore never really learned to serve."].

Since NTRP's suggestion wasn't a formula, it is not like a doctor prescribing medication sight unseen, where the wrong medicine or even the wrong dosage could kill a patient. One [hopefully] does not prescribe on the basis of what the median patient's characteristics are. But, since we haven't seen the OP's video or have any idea of his deficiencies, the "100 ball" guideline is a step in the right direction.

As far as your comment

"These numbers are absurd. People master things differently, some really fast, some slow and some just will never be competent. 100 balls, not 96, not 90, but 100, must be magic. Anyone that gives you a definitive number just doesn't know what they are talking about."

I think NTRP just used 100 as a round #; he never stated it was definitive and he probably recognizes that people improve at different rates. He never said how many times the guy has to hit 100 serves.

If you were trying to find a location and someone said "drive 100 miles that way" and it turned out to be 99 miles or 101 miles, would you call his directions "absurd"? I wouldn't. They were an estimate.

 

[McLovin]

I've been processing that calculation for 7 1/2 million years, and the answer is:

42​

 

[OrangePower]

I've been processing that calculation for 7 1/2 million years, and the answer is:

42​

But what was the question again?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

But what was the question again?

I don't know. But I can help you build the computer that CAN calculate that, one whose computational matrix is so subtle and complex that it will contain organic life itself. Unless, of course, the Vogons get involved.

 

[schmke]

I would think the # would be closer to 1 in 10,000. Extremely rare.

@schmke - how many in your database have gone from 0 to 5.0 in 6 months?

Ummmm, none.

Now, I don't have comprehensive information going way back, but going back over the last 5 years or so, the largest fairly common increase has been 1.5:

2.5-4.0 - 22 times
3.0-4.5 - 13 times
3.5-5.0 - 5 times

Note, I'm looking at increases from a computer rating, this does not reflect what someone self rates at so it is missing the self-rated 2.5 that ends the year as a 3.5 that then gets to 4.5 eventually. This would just be a 1.0 increase in my analysis from 3.5 to 4.5.

 

[tennis tom]

I've seen two ex-pro athletes go to 5.0's within about a year or two of picking up the game, one was an ex-pro basketball player who played in Europe and the other an ex-pro volley ball player. Both tall, about 6.5 who played a lot of tennis once they took it up. Two out of approx. 1,000 members. No one's a zero, I'd say by the end of their first weekend of tennis they were 3.5.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I've seen two ex-pro athletes go to 5.0's within about a year or two of picking up the game, one was an ex-pro basketball player who played in Europe and the other an ex-pro volley ball player. Both tall, about 6.5 who played a lot of tennis once they took it up. Two out of approx. 1,000 members. No one's a zero, I'd say by the end of their first weekend of tennis they were 3.5.

@Cindysphinx - here's at least one example of a BB player crossing over.

 

[NTRPolice]

3.5-5.0 - 5 times

Total derail, but JFC.

At least if someone once was a 5.0 when they were 18, then is now a 3.5 and they're playing 65+ only, I cant really complain.

3.5 to 5.0. LOL.